From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 18:50:30 -0500, James wrote:

What your church won't tell you. They are acting as your censors.

1. No hellfire. God is a God of love. Not a sadistic god of torture.
2. No LITERAL Lake of Fire.
3. Gehenna. Used in a symbolic sense.
4. The soul is not immortal
5. The soul is a person of the flesh.
6. Trinity. based on Fourth century, long ater Bible written.
7. All good people DO NOT go to Heaven.

1. God did not create a hellfire place. Actually such a thought never
even entered His mind. Notice that principle:

-- King James
Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
into my heart.

2. The Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation is not literal. Notice
these 2 things tossed into it. "Death" and "hell".

-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death. Can "death" be burned and tortured?
Can hellfire be burned and tortured?

3. Gehenna was Jerusalem's garbage dump. No living people were tossed
into it. They kept a fire going 24/7. When something is burned up, it
ceases to exist. So it represents eternal destruction.

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

Matthew 5:22

rCLWhoever says, rCyYou fool!rCO will be liable to the fire of *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:22, ESV)

Matthew 5:29

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:29, ESV)

Matthew 5:30

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:30, ESV)

Matthew 10:28

rCLFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY
(10:28, ESV)

Matthew 18:9

rCLTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.rCY (18:9, ESV)

Matthew 23:33

rCLHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?rCY (23:33, ESV)

Mark 9:43

rCLTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.rCY (9:43, ESV)

Mark 9:45

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (9:45, ESV)

Mark 9:47rCo48

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, rCywhere their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.rCOrCY (9:47rCo48, ESV)

Luke 12:5

rCLFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (12:5, ESV)

James 3:6

rCLSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (3:6, ESV)

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Matthew 13:42

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:42, ESV)

Matthew 13:50

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:50, ESV)

Matthew 25:30

rCLThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

rCLDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] prepared for the devil and his angels.rCY (25:41, ESV)

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION)

Matthew 25:46

rCLThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the righteous into eternal life.rCY (25:46, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 1:9

rCLThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.rCY (1:9, ESV)

rCLDestructionrCY here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it is eternal and experienced rCLaway fromrCY someone.

REVELATIONrCOS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

rCLThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.rCY (14:11, ESV)

Revelation 20:10

rCLThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].rCY (20:10, ESV)

Revelation 20:15

rCLIf anyonerCOs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].rCY (20:15, ESV)

Revelation 21:8

rCLTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].rCY (21:8, ESV)

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

1. rCLFire means total destructionrCY

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

2. rCLLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnrCOt realrCY

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

3. rCLDeath removes sin automaticallyrCY

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristrCOs death, not physical death.

Hebrews 9:27: rCLIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment [krisis].rCY (9:27, ESV)

4. rCLResurrected unbelievers are sinlessrCY

John 5:29: rCLThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment [anastasin kriseos].rCY (5:29, ESV)

5. rCLGod would never punish eternallyrCY

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself (Matthew 25:41, ESV).

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It
does not say they will cease to exist.

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in
ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches annihilation after physical death.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible



On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 18:50:30 -0500, James wrote:

What your church won't tell you.

They are acting as your censors. Do you want uninspired men to be your
Bible sensor?

Some of these BIBLE FACTS, may seem strange to you, but they are all
based on the Bible. No church doctrines, etc.

1. NO HELLFIRE. God is a God of love. Not a sadistic god of torture.
God did not create a hellfire place. Actually such a thought never
even entered His mind. Notice that principle stated at:

-- King James
Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
into my heart.

2. NO LITERAL LAKE OF FIRE.

The Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation is not literal. Notice these
2 things tossed into it. "Death" and "hell".

-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

Can "death" be burned and tortured?
Can hellfire be burned and tortured?

3 Gehenna. Used in a symbolic sense.

Gehenna was Jerusalem's garbage dump. No living people were tossed
into it. They kept a fire going 24/7. When something is totally burned
up, it ceases to exist. So it represents eternal destruction.

4. The soul is not immortal.

- King James
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father,
so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall
die.

5. The soul is a person of the flesh.

The Bible "soul" can have several meanings. The very FIRST use of that
word is toward animals. (The Hebrew word for "soul" is "nephesh").

-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens.
[brackets mine]

And another is a person. Notice the wording:

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul. [nephesh]
[brackets mine]

Did Adam become one, or was he given one?

6. Trinity. based a meeting in the Fourth century (Council of Nisea-
325 C.E. long after Bible written.
The Bible says God is ONE, not three.

-- King James
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord:

7. ALL good people DO NOT go to Heaven.
By the time of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Isaiah, King David, etc,
actually NONE of those mentioned in the OT went to Heaven. Zero,
ziltch, 0. And here is the proof:

-- New King James
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from
heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

8. Most translators have removed God's name out of the OT, which is
about 7000 times. They stuck in the title "Lord" in its place. And the
churches use those Bibles instead of a translation that has them all
in, like the NWT.

9. Most churches say that when you die, you go to either Heaven or
hellfire. BLEEP!! WRONG!!

The Bible tells us otherwise. Notice what happens to us when we die:

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.

3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish. (KJV; Ps 146:3,4)

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy
might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in
the grave, whither thou goest.

--King James
-Ps 146:3,4 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in
whom there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish.

But what about the righteous ones who die? They also go to their'
graves'. They would praise God if they could. But they temp cease to
exist. Jesus called a dead man is just "sleeping" (John 11:11)

Then where is their hope? There will be a resurrection of the dead,
both good and bad. (Ac 24:15)

10. Most churches believe Jesus is God. Again that is not a Bible
doctrine. Jesus called himself, the Son of God, not God.

But many church goers Quote John 1:1

-- King James
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

First it says "In the beginning". GOD HAD NO SUCH BEGINNING. He always
lived, and the Word died. So he can't be God:

-- King James
Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou
hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to
everlasting, thou art God.

That Jesus was created:

-- King James
15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:
16. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or
dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by
him, and for him: (Col 1:15,16)

People who try to interpret that a different way, are not looking at
the context. It says Jesus was the FIRST of many creations:

Jesus
things in heaven
things on the earth
visible things
invisible things
thrones
dominions
principalities
powers

God is the principle Creator, but Jesus assisted Him in some way:

-- King James
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

More in the Bible that Jesus is NOT God:

- New King James
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit
will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the
Son of God.

-- New King James
John 10:36 "do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent
into the world, `You are blaspheming,' because I said, `I am the Son
of God'?


-- Revised Standard
John 5:30 "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge;
and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will
of him who sent me.
Also here is a summary of more:

Only God is good. (Luke 18:19)
Jesus didn't know the day or hour. Only God did. (Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve ONLY God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is STILL the HEAD of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' own angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)

This next gem was told by the apostle Paul. It goes contrary from what
you heard from the churches. Paul said:

-- King James
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is
eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now read on:

-- New King James
Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Thus in the resurrection from the dead, all of them are sinless. (Rom
6:7; Acts 24:15), thus they won't be judged right away. During the
1000 year reign of Christ, they all will prove themselves as
righteous, or not.

"Prayer Helps With Anxiety
See How". See jw.org (2/17/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious
existence.

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

Matthew 5:22

rCLWhoever says, rCyYou fool!rCO will be liable to the fire of *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:22, ESV)

Matthew 5:29

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:29, ESV)

Matthew 5:30

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:30, ESV)

Matthew 10:28

rCLFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY
(10:28, ESV)

Matthew 18:9

rCLTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.rCY (18:9, ESV)

Matthew 23:33

rCLHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?rCY (23:33, ESV)

Mark 9:43

rCLTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.rCY (9:43, ESV)

Mark 9:45

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (9:45, ESV)

Mark 9:47rCo48

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, rCywhere their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.rCOrCY (9:47rCo48, ESV)

Luke 12:5

rCLFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (12:5, ESV)

James 3:6

rCLSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (3:6, ESV)

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Matthew 13:42

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:42, ESV)

Matthew 13:50

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:50, ESV)

Matthew 25:30

rCLThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

rCLDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] prepared for the devil and his angels.rCY (25:41, ESV)

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION)

Matthew 25:46

rCLThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the righteous into eternal life.rCY (25:46, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 1:9

rCLThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.rCY (1:9, ESV)

rCLDestructionrCY here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it is eternal and experienced rCLaway fromrCY someone.

REVELATIONrCOS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

rCLThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.rCY (14:11, ESV)

Revelation 20:10

rCLThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].rCY (20:10, ESV)

Revelation 20:15

rCLIf anyonerCOs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].rCY (20:15, ESV)

Revelation 21:8

rCLTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].rCY (21:8, ESV)

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

1. rCLFire means total destructionrCY

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

2. rCLLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnrCOt realrCY

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

3. rCLDeath removes sin automaticallyrCY

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristrCOs death, not physical death.

Hebrews 9:27: rCLIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment [krisis].rCY (9:27, ESV)

4. rCLResurrected unbelievers are sinlessrCY

John 5:29: rCLThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment [anastasin kriseos].rCY (5:29, ESV)

5. rCLGod would never punish eternallyrCY

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself (Matthew 25:41, ESV).

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It
does not say they will cease to exist.

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in
ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches annihilation after physical death.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 16:44:32 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious >existence

Part of it not true. The Lake of Fire is symbolic. Don't believe those
who say it is literal. Not only is God not a maniac of torture, but
"death" is tossed into that symbolic fire. That proves it is symbolic.
Abstract things cannot be burned by literal fire.

The Lake of Fire represents the 2nd death. It says so right in the
Scripture:

-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.
The Bible uses fire to show something is total destrluction.

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

See right above.

I accept all quoted correct .Scriptures.

Matthew 5:22

oWhoever says, aYou fool!A will be liable to the fire of *hell
[Gehenna]*.o (5:22, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 5:29

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:29, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 5:30

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:30, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 10:28

oFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.o
(10:28, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 18:9

oTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.o (18:9, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 23:33

oHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?o (23:33, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:43

oTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.o (9:43, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:45

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (9:45, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:47u48

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, awhere their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.Ao (9:47u48, ESV)

OK.

Luke 12:5

oFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell >[Gehenna]*.o (12:5, ESV)

OK.

James 3:6

oSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.o (3:6, ESV

OK.

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

The fire is symbolic. (death tossed into it). God no more tortures
people, than you do.

The dead are not conscience:

-- New King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; but the dead
know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten.

-- New King James
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your
might; for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the
grave where you are going.

"3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish." (KJV; 146:3,4)

Matthew 13:42

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:42, ESV)

Is that fiery furnace literal? Of course not.

Matthew 13:50

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:50, ESV)

See above.

Matthew 25:30

oThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to >exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o

Notice that alleged firery place is DARKNESS. It would be3 very bright
if it was real.

(25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

oDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] >prepared for the devil and his angels.o (25:41, ESV)

OK.

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION

Eternal duration of non conscience.

Matthew 25:46

oThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the >righteous into eternal life.o (25:46, ESV).+

But according to you, those getting punished also live forever. Thus
they must have done God's will. Your personal beliefs just created a contradiction here.

2 Thessalonians 1:9

oThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.o (1:9, ESV)

OK.

oDestructiono here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it
is eternal and experienced oaway fromo someone.

You are making things up. it says ETERNAL DESTRUCTION and that is what
it means. Permanate non existence.

REVELATIONAS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

oThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis >aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.o (14:11, ESV)

Thus this place must exist on the earth, since those in it experience
day and night. And there is constant smoke. I know of no such place,
do you?

Revelation 20:10

oThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].o (20:10, ESV)

Althogh it is rare, torment can be applied to non existing persons.
Notice:

"The Greek noun ba+sa+ni+stes? occurring at Matthew 18:34 is rendered
ojailerso in some translations (AT, Fn, NW; compare Mt 18:30) and
otormentorso or otorturerso in others. (AS, KJ, JB) Torture was
sometimes used in prisons to obtain information (compare Ac 22:24, 29,
which shows that this was done, although ba+sa+ni?zo is not used
here), so ba+sa+ni+stes? came to be applied to jailers. Regarding its
use at Matthew 18:34, The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia
observed: oProbably the imprisonment itself was regarded as atormentA
(as it doubtless was), and the atormentorsA need mean nothing more
than jailers.o (Edited by J.aOrr, 1960, Vol.aV, p.a2999) Thus, the
mentioning in Revelation 20:10 of ones who will be otormented day and
night forever and evero evidently indicates that they will be in a
condition of restraint. That a condition of restraint can be spoken of
as otormento is indicated by the parallel accounts at Matthew 8:29 and
Luke 8:31.uSee LAKE OF FIRE."
(Insight, Vol 2, p. 1115)

Revelation 20:15

oIf anyoneAs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].o (20:15, ESV)

OK.

Revelation 21:8

oTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].o (21:8, ESV)

OK.

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

Yes, that is what you have done. I will try to correct those errors.

1. oFire means total destructiono

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

Its all symbolic, in this case coming from the most symbolic Bible
book of Revelation. Also, it must be here on earth because it has "day
and night".

2. oLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnAt realo

The punishment is certainly real. It just isn't literal.

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite.

Not at all. It says what it says.

Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment

[basanizo] forever.

See above reference on torment meaning jailing.

3. oDeath removes sin automaticallyo

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristAs death, not physical death.

That's your opinion. The Bible doesn't say that. Here it is again:

- New King James
Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
It doesn't say it was in Christ's death. It says "for he" meaning any
male, believer or unbeliever.

Hebrews 9:27: oIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes >judgment [krisis].o (9:27, ESV)

OK.

4. oResurrected unbelievers are sinlesso

John 5:29: oThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment >[anastasin kriseos].o (5:29, ESV)

Yes, those who were bad will have that tendancy, thus they will be
observed closely.

5. oGod would never punish eternallyo

Of course God punishes eternally, by means of non existence.

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself >(Matthew 25:41, ESV).

God never even had such a thought:
That principle is stated at Jer 7:31,

-- King James
Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
into my heart.

o Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

New King James
2 Peter 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes,
condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who
afterward would live ungodly;

-- New King James
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual
immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example,
suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Apparently, the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have already been judged
by their Creator. It was God who destroyed the cities, not some
natural event.

Since as Genenna shows, fire here represents total destruction, with
no resurrection. He is also showing here various degrees of
wickedness. Thus there is no excluses for us.

If Jesus would have went to Sodom and Gomorrah, it is possible some
could have been saved. But they were still responsible for their own
conduct.

God put within us a conscience. Thus we instinctively know murder is
wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc. So they had no excuses.

o Jesus also said of Judas, oIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been borno (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

Well, I can think of one thing, all his kin folk wouldn't have to
experiece the humiliation and embarrasedment he caused them. So if he
wasn't born, those things would have been better.

o Jesus said, oDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulo (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

THe soul here means "future life". If one dedicates his life to God,
no one can prevent God from rewarding his loyalty.
Also, this shows that a soul can die.

o Paul said, oWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the Lordo (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerAs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

Paul was one of the annointed 144,000 going to Heaven. The rest will
live here on the earth. As Jesus put it:

-- King James
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

He didn't say 'inherit Heaven', did he.

o Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22u25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

What was the rich man's name?

That is no reason to accept it as literal. There is too many things
wrong with it. Such as a DROP of water bringing relief. That hellfire
is within calling distance of Heaven. That he went to the bosom of
Abraham. Most people assume that Abraham was in Heaven. (if not, where
was he) Jesus said nobody ever went to Heaven except him.
No. It wasn't literal and was a parable.

o John wrote, oThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nighto (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

Again, this is assumed to happen on the earth. There was a planet, and
a sun, and the planet rotating to produce day and night. I know of no
such place, do you?

o Jesus said, oIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fireo (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

That is totally contrary to an actual physical fire. When large
buildings burn, steel melts, fire DESTROYS whatever it touches. The
longer, the more destruction.

Also, is that verse advocating self mutilation? Many would find that
repulsive, just like being tortured with fire. So given the fact that
Jesus didn't mean that literally, what did he mean??

o Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet owill be tormented day and night forever and ever.o It
does not say they will cease to exist.

God tortures an animal? Animal rights activists would object. Where
was or is that beast now. I recall it has 7 heads. Couldn't miss
something like that. No history books mention such a thing. Or could
it be symbolic of something?

o Jesus said God is onot God of the dead, but of the living,o
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

Where are they living?? They were not in Heaven. Then where? Notice:

-- New King James
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from
heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

So where were they???

o The thief on the cross was told, oToday you will be with me in
Paradiseo (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say oafter
resurrection,o but otoday,o showing conscious life after death.

There was no commas in Bible Greek. The thief couldn't have gone with
Jesus, because he had to be in the ground for 3 days and nights. So
the translators put a comma in the wrong place. To be Scripturally
accurate:

"Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

Now there is no contradiction of Jesus having to go in the ground for
3 days and nights. And he is telling the thief that at a time like
that, when things looked so bleek, that the thief would be rewarded
with everlasting life.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches >annihilation after physical death.

Then you have dark glasses on. You say Jesus is God, so can you
picture Jesus torturing people with fire forever? Because that is who
you are accusing.

I can say this with all honesty, most men are more moral than your god
(Jesus and Holy Spirit), since their built in conscience from God,
says torturing is debased and barbaric and cruel. Anyone who does that
has no love.

"Prayer Helps With Anxiety
See How". See jw.org (2/19/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 16:44:32 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior,

True. You must accept Jesus to get to God:

- King James
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

you will suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious >existence.

The churches are misleading you. That is a teaching of the demons in
these last days:

-- New King James
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some
will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and
doctrines of demons,

Paul likely would not have said that, if it was only a handful of
people doing it. No, he is warning all that such demonic doctrines
would be widespread, JUST LIKE THE CHURCHES ARE DOING.

The churches are teaching him that God will torture people for all
eternity by fire. They usually give the Lake of Fire as proof.

But is it? We claim that the Lake of Fire is symbolic. Not only
because it comes out of the most symbolic Bible book (Revelation), but
because things abstract ARE thrown in it; DEATH AND HELL.(Hades)

Can DEATH be burned by fire?
Can DEATH be pickup and tossed somewhere?

This helps honest-hearted ones to see that God is not a torturing
monster:

-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.

Thus that shows that the Lake of Fire is not literal. It is symbolic
of something. Of what? It is quite simple, "the second death".

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

As I said above, yes we must accept Jesus as our savior. But being
tortured forever is NOT the personality of a God of love. (1 John 4:8)
And how can abstract things like death, be tossed into a literal fire?

Now at this point some are wondering if God punishes the wicked, how?
Notice carefully what happens when a person dies:

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.

Did you catch it? The dead "KNOW NOT ANY THING". That means they have
an IQ of ZERO. But there is more:

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy
might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in
the grave, whither thou goest.

This supports the above statement that dead ones have an IQ of ZERO.
Yet even some more:

3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish. (Ps 146:3,4; KJV)

Again, dead ones have an IQ of ZERO. That Means they don't exist
anywhere. So what is their hope? Right here:

-- King James
Acts 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also
allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the
just and unjust.

The rest below are the churches' teaching of a 'hellfire'. As noted
above, there isn't such a thing. Burning people alive never even
crossed His loving heart:

-- King James
Jeremiah 7:31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is
in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their
daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it
into my heart.

So see if these things make any sense to you. Do your own research to
verify that they are all Bible truths. (John 4:23,24)

Stay warm.

"Prayer Helps With Anxiety
See How". See jw.org (2/22/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me

Matthew 5:22

oWhoever says, aYou fool!A will be liable to the fire of *hell
[Gehenna]*.o (5:22, ESV)

Matthew 5:29

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:29, ESV)

Matthew 5:30

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:30, ESV)

Matthew 10:28

oFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.o
(10:28, ESV)

Matthew 18:9

oTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.o (18:9, ESV)

Matthew 23:33

oHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?o (23:33, ESV)

Mark 9:43

oTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.o (9:43, ESV)

Mark 9:45

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (9:45, ESV)

Mark 9:47u48

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, awhere their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.Ao (9:47u48, ESV)

Luke 12:5

oFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell >[Gehenna]*.o (12:5, ESV)

James 3:6

oSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.o (3:6, ESV)

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Matthew 13:42

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:42, ESV)

Matthew 13:50

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:50, ESV)

Matthew 25:30

oThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to >exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o >(25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

oDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] >prepared for the devil and his angels.o (25:41, ESV)

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION)

Matthew 25:46

oThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the >righteous into eternal life.o (25:46, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 1:9

oThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.o (1:9, ESV)

oDestructiono here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it
is eternal and experienced oaway fromo someone.

REVELATIONAS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

oThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis >aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.o (14:11, ESV)

Revelation 20:10

oThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].o (20:10, ESV)

Revelation 20:15

oIf anyoneAs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].o (20:15, ESV)

Revelation 21:8

oTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].o (21:8, ESV)

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

1. oFire means total destructiono

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

2. oLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnAt realo

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

3. oDeath removes sin automaticallyo

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristAs death, not physical death.

Hebrews 9:27: oIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes >judgment [krisis].o (9:27, ESV)

4. oResurrected unbelievers are sinlesso

John 5:29: oThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment >[anastasin kriseos].o (5:29, ESV)

5. oGod would never punish eternallyo

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself >(Matthew 25:41, ESV).

o Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

o Jesus also said of Judas, oIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been borno (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

o Jesus said, oDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulo (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

o Paul said, oWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the Lordo (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerAs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

o Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22u25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

o John wrote, oThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nighto (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

o Jesus said, oIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fireo (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

o Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet owill be tormented day and night forever and ever.o It
does not say they will cease to exist.

o Jesus said God is onot God of the dead, but of the living,o
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

o The thief on the cross was told, oToday you will be with me in
Paradiseo (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say oafter
resurrection,o but otoday,o showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches >annihilation after physical death.

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

[See below]

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious
existence.

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

Matthew 5:22

rCLWhoever says, rCyYou fool!rCO will be liable to the fire of *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:22, ESV)

Matthew 5:29

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:29, ESV)

Matthew 5:30

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:30, ESV)

Matthew 10:28

rCLFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY
(10:28, ESV)

Matthew 18:9

rCLTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.rCY (18:9, ESV)

Matthew 23:33

rCLHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?rCY (23:33, ESV)

Mark 9:43

rCLTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.rCY (9:43, ESV)

Mark 9:45

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (9:45, ESV)

Mark 9:47rCo48

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, rCywhere their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.rCOrCY (9:47rCo48, ESV)

Luke 12:5

rCLFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (12:5, ESV)

James 3:6

rCLSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (3:6, ESV)

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Matthew 13:42

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:42, ESV)

Matthew 13:50

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:50, ESV)

Matthew 25:30

rCLThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

rCLDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] prepared for the devil and his angels.rCY (25:41, ESV)

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION)

Matthew 25:46

rCLThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the righteous into eternal life.rCY (25:46, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 1:9

rCLThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.rCY (1:9, ESV)

rCLDestructionrCY here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it is eternal and experienced rCLaway fromrCY someone.

REVELATIONrCOS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

rCLThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.rCY (14:11, ESV)

Revelation 20:10

rCLThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].rCY (20:10, ESV)

Revelation 20:15

rCLIf anyonerCOs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].rCY (20:15, ESV)

Revelation 21:8

rCLTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].rCY (21:8, ESV)

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

1. rCLFire means total destructionrCY

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

2. rCLLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnrCOt realrCY

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

3. rCLDeath removes sin automaticallyrCY

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristrCOs death, not physical death.

Hebrews 9:27: rCLIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment [krisis].rCY (9:27, ESV)

4. rCLResurrected unbelievers are sinlessrCY

John 5:29: rCLThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment [anastasin kriseos].rCY (5:29, ESV)

5. rCLGod would never punish eternallyrCY

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself (Matthew 25:41, ESV).

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It
does not say they will cease to exist.

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in
ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches annihilation after physical death.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 16:18:02 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

[See below]

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious >existence.

Tell me, what about all the people in the past who never even heard of
Jesus in any form? Are they automatically doomed??

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

I agree, but no one will be burned alive eternally. That is what Satan
wants you to believe. By believing that, you just stepped into Satan's
trap he set. And his purpose here was to downgrade a loving God into a
crazed monster. Don't you recall how the Bible describes him as the
"father of the lie?"
So lying is his forte'.

Matthew 5:22

oWhoever says, aYou fool!A will be liable to the fire of *hell
[Gehenna]*.o (5:22, ESV)

There are worms in Gehenna that never die. Does that sound literal to
you? Of course it isn't. What did those poor worms do to get such a
fate?

Also, Hell in the NT is Hades, not Gehenna. And Hades represents the
grave. That is why Job wanted to go to hell to get some relief from
his pain. He knew hell was the grave. Hell in the OT is sheol. Compare
the following two Scriptures:

DRA
Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a. time when thou wilt
remember me? [brackets mine]

"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, [sheol] that thou wouldest
keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me
a set time, and remember me!" (KJV) [brackets mine]

Matthew 5:29

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:29, ESV)

Matthew 5:30

oIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (5:30, ESV)

Was Jesus encouraging self mutilation?

Matthew 10:28

oFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.o

Yes, a soul is not immortal. It can be destroyed.

(10:28, ESV)

Matthew 18:9

oTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.o (18:9, ESV)

From what I have seen, Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are the same.

Matthew 23:33

oHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?o (23:33, ESV)

Mark 9:43

oTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.o (9:43, ESV)

Mark 9:45

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.o (9:45, ESV)

Mark 9:47u48

oTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, awhere their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.Ao (9:47u48, ESV)

Luke 12:5

oFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell >[Gehenna]*.o (12:5, ESV)

James 3:6

oSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.o (3:6, ESV)

Wouldn't you like to collect some of those fireproof worms?
They would be good for fishing.

FIRE + CONSCIOUS TORMENT

Matthew 13:42

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:42, ESV)

Yes, when they are first tossed in. After that it's bye bye birdy.

Matthew 13:50

oAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o (13:50, ESV)

Sadly after their first entrance, they won't have any teeth or vocal
cords.

Matthew 25:30

oThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to >exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.o >(25:30, ESV)

Ahaa, this one gives you a clue that the fires are not real. Have you
ever had a fire that was total darkness? Neither have I. Where they
go, it is permanent darkness because they won't exist anymore

Matthew 25:41

oDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] >prepared for the devil and his angels.o (25:41, ESV)

The rest of these are moot for all the same reasons.
Remember that Gehenna was Jerusalem's refuse area. No one living was
tossed in there. And when something was destroyed by fire, it cease to
exist. The Jews understood that well and knew what Jesus meant by
Gehenna.

The rest below is the same thing we are talking about, and its already
been covered.

ETERNAL DURATION (NOT EXTINCTION)

Matthew 25:46

oThese will go away into eternal punishment [kolasin aionion], but the >righteous into eternal life.o (25:46, ESV)

2 Thessalonians 1:9

oThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.o (1:9, ESV)

oDestructiono here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it
is eternal and experienced oaway fromo someone.

REVELATIONAS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

oThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis >aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.o (14:11, ESV)

Revelation 20:10

oThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].o (20:10, ESV)

Revelation 20:15

oIf anyoneAs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].o (20:15, ESV)

Revelation 21:8

oTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].o (21:8, ESV)

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

1. oFire means total destructiono

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

And Jesus for a while only talked in parables. And the apostle John
knew he was into a very symbolic book. But only those of the true
religion, are going to understand the Bible. It's a slow process:

-- New King James
Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the just is like the shining sun, that
shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.

If you want to go down with the churches, just stay on the wide road
you are on:

-- New King James
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come
out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you
receive of her plagues.

"How Can You Have More Than This Life?
There is a oroado you need to take to have the sort of life that God
is preparing for those who love him.
Learn More". See jw.org (2/25/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me

2. oLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnAt realo

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

Sorry, but the Lake of Fire cannot be literal. "Death" is tossed in
there. Again I ask, can "death" be harmed by a literal fire? Can
"death" be tortured inside of the Lake of fire? You know the answers
to those questions, but apparently refuse to reason on the Scriptures
here.

3. oDeath removes sin automaticallyo

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristAs death, not physical death.

Hebrews 9:27: oIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes >judgment [krisis].o (9:27, ESV)

4. oResurrected unbelievers are sinlesso

John 5:29: oThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment >[anastasin kriseos].o (5:29, ESV)

5. oGod would never punish eternallyo

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself >(Matthew 25:41, ESV).

o Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

o Jesus also said of Judas, oIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been borno (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

o Jesus said, oDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulo (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

o Paul said, oWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the Lordo (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerAs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

o Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22u25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

o John wrote, oThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nighto (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

o Jesus said, oIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fireo (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

o Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet owill be tormented day and night forever and ever.o It
does not say they will cease to exist.

o Jesus said God is onot God of the dead, but of the living,o
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

o The thief on the cross was told, oToday you will be with me in
Paradiseo (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say oafter
resurrection,o but otoday,o showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches >annihilation after physical death.

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Wed, 25 Feb 2026 19:11:29 -0500
<5dsupkhemuf686m9dbdb4vhk1qvn7n6bh7@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================

On Sun, 22 Feb 2026 16:18:02 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

[See below]

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious
existence.

Tell me, what about all the people in the past who never even heard of
Jesus in any form? Are they automatically doomed??

rCLFor what can be known about God is plain to them, because God
has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his
eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived,
ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have
been made. So they are without excuse.rCY (Romans 1:19rCo20, ESV)

The Bible clearly states that pagans reject and suppress the knowledge
of God which is self-evident to them in creation. This is why it's
futile to argue creation with an "atheist". They have already suppressed
the knowledge of God to the point where He handed them over to their own corrupt way of thinking. Pagans didn't want to retain the knowledge of
God, so yes, they are without excuse. You don't know what the Bible
says, or you reject what the Bible says?
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Wed, 25 Feb 2026 19:11:29 -0500
<5dsupkhemuf686m9dbdb4vhk1qvn7n6bh7@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

I agree,

Read again: "eternal, conscious torment". You do not agree. You want to comfort yourself with the Watchtower LIE that men can reject Christ and
still not go to conscious eternal torment. It's not a matter of what the
Bible says to you, but of the LIES you want to believe, regardless of
what you have to add or twist in the Bible to "comfort" yourself. You've rejected the truth, so you will believe "a lie" (2 Thessalonians 2).

but no one will be burned alive eternally. That is what Satan
wants you to believe. By believing that, you just stepped into Satan's
trap he set. And his purpose here was to downgrade a loving God into a
crazed monster. Don't you recall how the Bible describes him as the
"father of the lie?"
So lying is his forte'.

Idem. You offer no Bible evidence of that whatsoever, and what you say
here contradicts everything the Bible teaches about it.

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It
does not say they will cease to exist.

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in
ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches annihilation after physical death.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Wed, 25 Feb 2026 19:11:29 -0500
<5dsupkhemuf686m9dbdb4vhk1qvn7n6bh7@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <zebrabible@proton.me> wrote: ========================================

2. rCLLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnrCOt realrCY

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite. Revelation explicitly defines the experience as torment
[basanizo] forever.

Sorry, but the Lake of Fire cannot be literal. "Death" is tossed in
there. Again I ask, can "death" be harmed by a literal fire? Can
"death" be tortured inside of the Lake of fire? You know the answers
to those questions, but apparently refuse to reason on the Scriptures
here.

Your "reasoning" is completely asinine and false.

To begin, the text doesn't even say death will be "tortured" by the
fire. YOU supply your own stupid argument, PRETEND that's what the Bible
says, then act like since YOUR INSERTED LIE is a ridiculous one, then
the Bible must not mean what it says. That kind of intentional deceit
doesn't occur accidentally.

No matter how self-evidently stupid, you just keep parroting the same
refuted arguments over and over.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
images and website formatting, subscribe to my feed in a client like Thunderbird:

https://www.christrose.news/feeds/posts/default
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.bible

Yes, if you die without relying on Christ as your Savior, you will
suffer just, conscious, eternal torment in the lake of fire. There will
be no second chances, and no annihilation or cessation of conscious
existence

[See above]

Here are the Bible truths which expose Watchtower "comforting" LIES
about eternal judgment. Everyone who rejects God's justice, mercy, and
grace in offering Christ as Savior, WILL suffer eternal, conscious torment:

[See above]

See right above.

[See above]

I accept all quoted correct .Scriptures.

Liar. You accept a perverted version that adds words like "other", not
for the sake of smooth translation, but to promote your denial of the
fact the Bible teaches Jesus is God.

The NWT is not a translation. It's a doctrinal heresy abomination
imposed on the Bible: https://christrose.news/nwt

Matthew 5:22

rCLWhoever says, rCyYou fool!rCO will be liable to the fire of *hell
[Gehenna]*.rCY (5:22, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 5:29

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:29, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 5:30

rCLIt is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (5:30, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 10:28

rCLFear Him who can destroy both soul and body in *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY
(10:28, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 18:9

rCLTo be thrown into the *hell [Gehenna]* of fire.rCY (18:9, ESV)

OK.

Matthew 23:33

rCLHow are you to escape being sentenced to *hell [Gehenna]*?rCY (23:33, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:43

rCLTo go to *hell [Gehenna]*, to the unquenchable fire.rCY (9:43, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:45

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (9:45, ESV)

OK.

Mark 9:47rCo48

rCLTo be thrown into *hell [Gehenna]*, rCywhere their worm does not die and >> the fire is not quenched.rCOrCY (9:47rCo48, ESV)

OK.

Luke 12:5

rCLFear Him who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into *hell
[Gehenna]*.rCY (12:5, ESV)

OK.

James 3:6

rCLSet on fire by *hell [Gehenna]*.rCY (3:6, ESV

OK.

[See above]

Matthew 13:42

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:42, ESV)

[See above]

Matthew 13:50

rCLAnd throw them into the fiery furnace [kaminos tou pyros]. In that
place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY (13:50, ESV)

See above.

[See above]

Matthew 25:30

rCLThrow the worthless servant into the outer darkness [to skotos to
exoteron]. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.rCY

[See above]

(25:30, ESV)

Matthew 25:41

rCLDepart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire [to pyr to aionion]
prepared for the devil and his angels.rCY (25:41, ESV)

OK.

[See above]

2 Thessalonians 1:9

rCLThey will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction [olethron
aionion], away from the presence of the Lord.rCY (1:9, ESV)

OK.

rCLDestructionrCY here describes ruin and exclusion, not cessation, since it >> is eternal and experienced rCLaway fromrCY someone.

[See above]

REVELATIONrCOS EXPLICIT INTERPRETATION

Revelation 14:11

rCLThe smoke of their torment [basanismou] goes up forever and ever [eis
aionas aionon], and they have no rest, day or night.rCY (14:11, ESV)

[See above]

Revelation 20:10

rCLThey will be tormented [basanisthesontai] day and night forever and
ever [eis tous aionas ton aionon].rCY (20:10, ESV)

[See above]

Revelation 20:15

rCLIf anyonerCOs name was not found written in the book of life, he was
thrown into the lake of fire [limne tou pyros].rCY (20:15, ESV)

OK.

Revelation 21:8

rCLTheir portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur
[limne ten kaiomene pyri kai theio], which is the second death [ho
thanatos ho deuteros].rCY (21:8, ESV)

OK.

LIES REFUTED DIRECTLY FROM SCRIPTURE

[See below]

1. rCLFire means total destructionrCY

Refuted by weeping, gnashing, torment [basanismos], no rest, day and night.

[See above]

2. rCLLake of fire is symbolic, so punishment isnrCOt realrCY

[See below]

Symbols communicate truth consistent with their imagery, not the
opposite.

[See above]

3. rCLDeath removes sin automaticallyrCY

Romans 6:7 speaks of union with ChristrCOs death, not physical death.

And notice how the Watchtower liar tried to twist the meaning of all
this, as if he didn't realize what he was doing when he promoted the lies:

rCLHow can we who died to sin still live in it?rCY (6:2, ESV).

He says rCLdied to sin,rCY not will die. The verb is past tense. He speaks
of something already true of living believers. The contrast is
continuing in sin. A physically dead person cannot rCLlive inrCY sin. This death addresses sinrCOs rule, not bodily burial, and it already occurred
for those in Christ.

rCLDo you not know that all of us who have been baptized into
Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?rCY (6:3, ESV).

He locates this death rCLinto Christ Jesus.rCY That language describes
union. He does not say we will be buried in the ground. He says we were baptized into His death. The verbs are past tense. The focus is
completed participation in ChristrCOs death, not a future physical event.

rCLWe were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in
order that, just as Christ was raised from the deadrCa we too
might walk in newness of life.rCY (6:4, ESV).

rCLWe were buried.rCY Past tense. Yet they are alive as he writes. This
burial already happened in union with Christ. The purpose clause shows
present ethical change: rCLwalk in newness of life.rCY Physical burial does not enable walking. Union with the risen Christ does, and that union has already taken place.

rCLFor if we have been united with him in a death like his, we
shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.rCY
(6:5, ESV).

He uses rCLhave been united.rCY That is completed action. The argument rests on shared participation with Christ that has already occurred. Physical
death unites no one to Christ automatically. Faith-union does, and Paul
treats it as an accomplished reality.

rCLWe know that our old self was crucified with himrCa so that we
would no longer be enslaved to sin.rCY (6:6, ESV).

rCLOur old self was crucified.rCY Past tense. Believers are not waiting to
be crucified physically. This refers to co-crucifixion in Christ that
has already happened. The result concerns freedom from sinrCOs slavery
now. Physical death does not explain moral liberation in this life.

rCLNow if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also
live with him.rCY (6:8, ESV).

rCLWe have died with Christ.rCY Again, past tense. He does not say we will
die with Christ someday in a grave. He says we have died with Him. That
phrase requires identification with ChristrCOs historical cross already accomplished. He speaks of shared life with Him on that basis, not the universal fact that all humans eventually die.

rCLSo you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to
God in Christ Jesus.rCY (6:11, ESV).

He commands mental reckoning based on completed fact. rCLConsider
yourselves dead.rCY One cannot consider himself physically dead while breathing. The reckoning concerns an already established status in ChristrCodead to sin, alive to God.

rCLPresent yourselves to God as those who have been brought from
death to life.rCY (6:13, ESV).

rCLHave been brought.rCY Completed action. They have already passed from
death to life. Physical resurrection has not yet occurred. This
describes spiritual transition through union with Christ that is already
true.

rCLFor sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under
law but under grace.rCY (6:14, ESV).

rCLYou are not under law.rCY Present reality grounded in prior change. Physical death does not transfer someone from law to grace. Union with
Christ does, and Paul treats that transfer as accomplished.

rCLBut thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have
become obedient from the heartrCarCY (6:17, ESV).

rCLWere oncerCa have become.rCY Clear past-tense contrast. He marks a decisive break in their history. That inner transformation already occurred. It
does not describe what happens to all people when they physically die.

"And, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of
righteousness.rCY (6:18, ESV).

rCLHaving been set freerCa have become.rCY Completed realities. Freedom from sin and new enslavement to righteousness describe covenant transfer that
has already taken place. This change occurs in those united to Christ by faith, not in every human who experiences bodily death.

Throughout the passage, Paul ties death language to being rCLin Christ,rCY rCLwith him,rCY rCLunited with him,rCY and he consistently uses past tense to describe what has already happened to believers. He argues from
completed participation in ChristrCOs cross and resurrection, not from the universal certainty of future physical death.

Romans 6 shows how the believer became free from the obligation to sin
at the time in the past when he was baptized into Christ's death to sin
and resurrection to newness of life through faith. Nothing whatsoever in
this whole chapter says, implies, or necessitates anything that can
remotely be confused with the LIE that he's talking about men's own
physical death atoning for their sins. You have to determine to suppress
and twist the truth to contradict the following obvious facts set forth
in Romans 6.

Romans 6

Paul speaks of a past death.
False Gospel James treats it as future.

Paul says believers were baptized into ChristrCOs death (Romans 6:3, ESV).
Paul says they were buried with Him (Romans 6:4, ESV).
Paul says the old self was crucified (Romans 6:6, ESV).

False Gospel James turns completed past action into a future physical
death. That reverses the verb tense.

Paul speaks to believers. False Gospel James applies it to all men.

Paul says, rCLall of us who have been baptized into Christ JesusrCY (Romans 6:3, ESV).

Paul says they became rCLobedient from the heartrCY (Romans 6:17, ESV).

Unbelievers do not obey from the heart. False Gospel James applies believeronly language to unbelievers.

Paul defines the death as ChristrCOs.

False Gospel James replaces it with the sinnerrCOs.

Paul says rCLinto his deathrCY (Romans 6:3, ESV).
Paul says rCLburied with himrCY (Romans 6:4, ESV).
Paul says rCLcrucified with himrCY (Romans 6:6, ESV).

False Gospel James removes rCLwith ChristrCY and substitutes personal
physical death. That deletes PaulrCOs subject.

Paul says the old self died. False Gospel James claims the person dies.

Paul says rCLour old self was crucifiedrCY (Romans 6:6, ESV).
Paul still calls the body rCLmortalrCY (Romans 6:12, ESV).

The physical body remains alive. False Gospel James confuses moral
identity with biological death.

Paul says the result is freedom from sinrCOs rule.
False Gospel James claims freedom from sinrCOs guilt.

Paul says rCLno longer enslaved to sinrCY (Romans 6:6, ESV).
Paul speaks of reign, mastery, obedience, slavery.

False Gospel James imports atonement language that Paul never uses in
the chapter.

Paul says death is the penalty for sin.
False Gospel James says death is the payment for sin.

rCLThe wages of sin is deathrCY (Romans 6:23, ESV).
rCLThe free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our LordrCY (Romans 6:23, ESV).

Paul contrasts death with salvation. False Gospel James turns death into salvation.

Summary:

False Gospel James must change the tense, the audience, the subject, the
kind of death, the object of death, and the result of death to PRETEND
his lies work. That is not misunderstanding. That is lying.

Hebrews 9:27: rCLIt is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes >> judgment [krisis].rCY (9:27, ESV)

OK.

4. rCLResurrected unbelievers are sinlessrCY

John 5:29: rCLThose who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment
[anastasin kriseos].rCY (5:29, ESV)

[see above]

5. rCLGod would never punish eternallyrCY

[see below]

Jesus says eternal fire [to pyr to aionion] was prepared by God Himself
(Matthew 25:41, ESV).

[see above]

And note how the Watchtower liar pretends like children of the devil are
the "children of God":

"You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your
father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does
not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When
he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar
and the father of lies." (John 8:44, ESV)

"The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the
kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one." (Matthew
13:38, ESV)

"and said, 'You son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness,
full of all deceit and villainy, will you not stop making
crooked the straight paths of the Lord?'" (Acts 13:10, ESV)

rCLWhoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the
devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of
God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.rCY (1 John
3:8, ESV)

rCLBy this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are
the children of the devil: whoever does not practice
righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love
his brother.rCY (1 John 3:10, ESV)

God does in fact cast into the lake of fire, those who are "cursed".
These are NOT His children, but the children of the devil:

rCLrCLThen he will say to those on his left, rCyDepart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.rCY (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

New King James
2 Peter 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who
afterward would live ungodly;

-- New King James
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a
similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual
immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[see above. He said it "will be" more tolerable in the day of judgment.
The physical judgment at the time the cities were destroyed is only the beginning. After that comes the eternal, conscious torment.]

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

[see above]

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

[see above]

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

[see above]

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

[see above]

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

[see above]

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

[see above]

rCo The text doesn't say "symbolic" fire. God, angels, and human
souls are literal beings (John 5:24). They don't cease to be
literal, simply because they are spirit in nature. Further, it
says the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels (spirit
beings). So it's referring to literal fire that would affect
spirit beings the way earthly fire would affect physical
things.

rCo Symbols point to a reality which is consistent with the symbol,
not the exact opposite of what the symbol plainly states. So
even if the verses which declare these beings will be tormented
day and night forever and ever in the lake of fire were
"symbolic", it would be symbolic of eternal, conscious torment,
not CESSATION of existence where people would NOT be tormented.
You can't be tormented day and night by NON existence!

rCo Watchtower heresy-James' reasoning implies and necessitates a
whole series of falsehoods. Fore example, it would require that
anything which doesn't operate by earth-physics is therefore
not "literal", AND therefore must be "symbolic", AND therefore
must not mean what it plainly states, AND therefore must rather
mean the exact OPPOSITE of what it states. It is not enough to
simply say "symbolic", especially when your proposal makes it
mean the exact opposite of what it clearly indicates.

rCo For example, God (John 4:24), the angels (Hebrews 1:14), and
human souls (Matthew 10:28) are "spirit" beings, not "earth
physics" beings. The lake of fire was "prepared" (Matthew
25:41) for spirit beings, not earth-physics material bodies. It
will therefore be a fire which is suited for the torment of
spirit bodies, not an earth-physics, material kind of fire.
Spirit bodies are not "symbolic" bodies, or therefore not
"literal", simply because they are not earth-physics,
material bodies or beings.

rCo When Revelation uses symbolic language, it almost always
indicates such by using phrases such as "like" or "as". For
example, Jesus' voice is "like" a trumpet or "like" the sound
of many waters, or His hair is white "like" wool. In such
instances, it is self-evident that it's giving a comparison
that we understand to explain something we do not. The vast
majority of the symbols in Revelation fit this category.

rCo When Revelation uses symbolism which is not "like" or "as", it
EXPLAINS what the symbols mean, or else the symbolism is
explained elsewhere in the Bible, such as in the book of
Daniel. For example, when it says Jesus is holding seven stars
in His right hand and standing among seven lampstands
(Revelation 1:12rCo16), it immediately explains, rCLthe seven stars
are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands
are the seven churchesrCY (Revelation 1:20). Similarly, the great
red dragon is explicitly identified as rCLthat ancient serpent,
who is called the devil and SatanrCY (Revelation 12:9). This
consistent patternrCoeither using clear similes or offering
direct explanationsrCoshows that Revelation does not leave its
symbols to private interpretation. When the text does not
indicate symbolic meaning, the burden of proof rests on anyone
who insists it should be read symbolically rather than plainly.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It >> does not say they will cease to exist.

[see above]

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

[see above]

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in >> ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

[see above]

This stupid, two-faced, hypocrite liar would have us believe that the
man who asked Jesus to remember him "when" he came into His kingdom, was
not now being informed that "today" would that day, but rather that
Jesus wanted him to understand that TODAY was the day Jesus was telling
Him he would be with Jesus at an unknown future date.

Then, elsewhere, the hypocrite argues that the interpretation (when he
does not like it) cannot be something that's so self-evident that the
person would not need to be informed about it. So the man wouldn't have realized that "today" is the day Jesus was talking to him, and therefore
he had to be informed about that. This is the kind of stupid,
double-standard hypocrisy this tool of Satan expects people to swallow,
every time he opens his lying mouth.

[see above]

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches
annihilation after physical death.

[see above]
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

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