From Newsgroup: alt.bible

The churches teach of a literal Lake of Fire. The Bible says it is
not literal. It even tells us what it represents= The second death.
(Rev 20:14) Compare these two:

-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.

DEATH is cast into it. Can DEATH be picked up and tossed somewhere?
Can DEATH be effected by literal fire? Of course not. DEATH is not a 3 dimentional thing. It does not take up space or have weight. Thus it
can't be effected by hot flames.

And there is more proof: Hell is tossed into the Lake of Fire. People
try to tell me that hell is mostly flames. And my former church used
to teach me that hell was for the wicked, and they were in there
forever. And I was a good little Catholic and believed everything they
said. After all, I was just a kid and they were trained theologians.
But now I know the real Bible truth.

Hell is Hades in the Bible. And all people will get out of hell:

-- New King James
Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death
and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were
judged, each one according to his works.

Hell is NOT what the churches teach. So be carefull with their
doctrines.

Thus the Bible DEFINES what the Lake of Fire really is. (the second
death) And the Bible is from God. (2 Tim 3:16)

"KEEP ON THE WATCH!
Doomsday Clock Moves Closer to Midnight
Learn More". See jw.org (2/7/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Sat, 07 Feb 2026 13:16:40 -0500
<avheok5gdrd5s8fbt4m2vr2sul8ri4bc2b@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <James> wrote: ========================================

The churches teach of a literal Lake of Fire.

You offer no convincing evidence the Bible itself teaches otherwise:

rCo "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched"
(Isaiah 66:24, ESV)

rCo "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake
of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
(Revelation 20:10, ESV)

rCo "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This
is the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14, ESV)

rCo But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for
murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all
liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire
and sulfur, which is the second death.(Revelation 21:8, ESV)

rCo "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to
hell, to the unquenchable fire." (Mark 9:43, ESV)

rCo "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into
hell." (Mark 9:45, ESV) [Context from v. 43 clarifies this is
the same "unquenchable fire."]

rCo "And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better
for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two
eyes to be thrown into hell, rCywhere their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.rCO" (Mark 9:47-48, ESV)

rCo "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his
threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the
chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:12, ESV)
rCo[Spoken by John the Baptist about Jesus.]rCo

rCo "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46, ESV) rCo[Preceded
by reference to "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and
his angels" (v.41).]

rCo "Then he will say to those on his left, rCyDepart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.rCO" (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

rCo "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in
hell." (Matthew 10:28, ESV) [The Greek word here is rCoGehennarCo,
associated with final judgment.]

rCo "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which
likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of
eternal fire." (Jude 1:7, ESV)

The Bible says it is not literal.

Not a single passage you cite below "says" it's not literal. Yet that is
your claim. You're not merely saying the Bible "indicates" or "implies",
but that it actually "says" it is not literal. It does not. You are
already trying to build on a falsehood (LIE).

It even tells us what it represents= The second death.
(Rev 20:14) Compare these two:>
-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

Exactly. It defines "death" for you right there. Death "IS" the state of
being separated from God in the lake of fire. Death is NOT extinction.
Death is NOT annihilation. Death is NOT a personal being or entity. It
IS the state of being separated from God:

Adam died the day he sinned, yet he continued to exist, alienated from
God's fellowship and expelled from the garden, under judgment (Genesis
2:17; Genesis 3:22rCo24).

Paul describes unbelievers as rCLdead in trespasses and sinsrCY while they remain fully conscious and active (Ephesians 2:1, ESV).

Death means separation from God, not extinction, not lack of conscious torment. That is what occurs when these souls are sent to the lake of
fire. It is death because their soul is being separated from God, just
like it was separated from their body (first death). When they are being separated from God in the lake of fire, that "IS" the second death.

-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.

idem.

DEATH is cast into it. Can DEATH be picked up and tossed somewhere?

idem.

Can DEATH be effected by literal fire? Of course not.

idem.

To begin, as already noted, death is the state of being separated. The
first death is separation from your physical body. The second death is separation of your soul from God in the lake of fire. Death is not a
personal entity. It IS the state of being separated from God. The verse
you cite states that being cast into the lake of fire "IS" the second death.

Next, "literal" is not confined to meaning "physical" or "bound by earth physics", as you imply. God is a "literal" being, yet he is a spirit
(John 4:24).

rCLGod is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit
and truth.rCYrCY (John 4:24, ESV)

God, demons, and human souls neither become nor cease to be literal
beings, based on whether or not you can strike a match and burn them
with physical, earth-physics fire. To contend that something is not
literal unless it is subject to earth physics is a Bible-refuted lie.
Can you burn your thoughts with a camp fire? No. Does that mean you
don't have literal thoughts?

Thirdly, the lake of fire was prepared for literal spirit beings, not
literal earth-physics beings.

rCLrCLThen he will say to those on his left, rCyDepart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.rCY (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

Since the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, it was
obviously not designed to torment physical flesh. It will be a literal
fire that is as suitable for tormenting souls as earth fire is for human bodies.

DEATH is not a 3
dimentional thing. It does not take up space or have weight. Thus it
can't be effected by hot flames.

No one said it does or is. You are the one who imported that confusion,
then pretended it would have to be that way to be thrown into the lake
of fire. Death is not a personal entity or a soul, or extinction or annihilation. It is separation. Being separated from God in the lake of
fire "IS" the second death.

And there is more proof:

Idem. You have offered no convincing evidence, let alone "proof" of your claim. You imported stupid lies and clustered confusion, then pretended refuting your own straw man was a victory.

Hell is tossed into the Lake of Fire.

Which is what the Bible says. Gehenna or Hades is a realm that held
souls of the dead. There's no reason why that literal realm cannot be literally separated from God in the lake of fire.

People
try to tell me that hell is mostly flames. And my former church used
to teach me that hell was for the wicked, and they were in there
forever. And I was a good little Catholic and believed everything they
said. After all, I was just a kid and they were trained theologians.
But now I know the real Bible truth.

Don't let your grudge against Catholics rob you of the truth. You seem
so determined to stick it to Catholics that you're willing to deny the
things they get right, just to oppose them.

You've already admitted Gehenna was a perpetual, ongoing fire dump that
burned rubbish perpetually. The fire does not keep on burning where
there is no fuel. Non existent things don't require ongoing flames. If
they were not there, there would be no flame to keep tormenting them
"day and night", "forever and ever".

Hell is Hades in the Bible. And all people will get out of hell:

-- New King James
Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death
and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were
judged, each one according to his works.

...As if being taken out of the frying pan (Luke 16), and thrown into
the fire (lake of fire), were some kind of release from suffering.

Hell is NOT what the churches teach. So be carefull with their
doctrines.

It's you who promotes calculated, Bible-contradicting error about the
meaning of hell. The New Testament uses three distinct words, and
Scripture does not collapse them into one meaning.

Hades (b+a+|++-e)

Hades refers to the realm of the dead, not merely a grave. It
corresponds to Sheol in the Old Testament. It is a conscious
intermediate state, not non-existence.
The rich man lifts up his eyes in Hades, being in torment (Luke 16:23, ESV).

Hades will give up the dead who are in it before final judgment
(Revelation 20:13, ESV).

A literal grave does not speak, feel torment, or surrender occupants for judgment.

Gehenna (+|+!+|+++++#)

Gehenna is not the grave. Jesus uses it for final judgment after
resurrection.

Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28, ESV).

The grave cannot touch the soul. Jesus distinguishes physical death from post-judgment punishment.

Tartarus (-a+#-U-a+#-U-i-e)

This term applies to fallen angels, not humans.
God cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy
darkness (2 Peter 2:4, ESV).

This confirms conscious restraint, not cessation.

Key biblical distinctions

The grave (mn-omeion, -a+4-a++-e) holds bodies.
Hades holds conscious persons awaiting judgment.
Gehenna describes final, irreversible judgment after resurrection.

Jesus affirms conscious existence after physical death.

"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul"
(Matthew 10:28, ESV).

To be absent from the body means to be present with the Lord (2
Corinthians 5:8, ESV).

Conclusion

Hades does not mean rCLthe graverCY in the sense of unconscious
non-existence. Scripture presents it as a real, conscious intermediate
state. The New Testament language remains consistent, precise, and
mutually reinforcing across the Gospels, Epistles, and Revelation.

Thus the Bible DEFINES what the Lake of Fire really is. (the second
death) And the Bible is from God. (2 Tim 3:16)

Exactly. Being thrown into the lake of fire "IS" the second death. Death
means separation from God in the lake of fire, not "annihilation", not "extinction", etc. The Bible clearly shows there will be degrees of punishment, which would not be possible if people simply ceased to exist
at death.

rCo Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

rCo Jesus also said of Judas, rCLIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been bornrCY (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

rCo Jesus said, rCLDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulrCY (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

rCo Paul said, rCLWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the LordrCY (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerrCOs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

rCo Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22rCo25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables never
do.

rCo John wrote, rCLThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nightrCY (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

rCo Jesus said, rCLIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable firerCY (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

rCo Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet rCLwill be tormented day and night forever and ever.rCY It
does not say they will cease to exist.

rCo Jesus said God is rCLnot God of the dead, but of the living,rCY
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

rCo The thief on the cross was told, rCLToday you will be with me in
ParadiserCY (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say rCLafter
resurrection,rCY but rCLtoday,rCY showing conscious life after death.

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches annihilation after physical death.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

To automatically receive daily Bible teaching updates with colorful
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Sat, 7 Feb 2026 17:34:27 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

========================================
Sat, 07 Feb 2026 13:16:40 -0500
<avheok5gdrd5s8fbt4m2vr2sul8ri4bc2b@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <James> wrote: >========================================

The churches teach of a literal Lake of Fire.

You offer no convincing evidence the Bible itself teaches otherwise:

Hello,

Just because you can't figure it out, doesn't disprove anything.
The Lake of Fire is symbolic. "Death is tossed into it". An abstract
thing cannot be picked up and tossed into a literal fire. There is
your proof. You do with it what you want.

o "where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched"
(Isaiah 66:24, ESV)

That is referring to Gehenna, which was a real place for refuse. Fires
were kept 24/7. When some dead biological thing was tossed in there,
but landed on the perimeter, worms would eat that material.

If those worms are real, they are super-worms. They get everlasting
life in a fire. So they must have been evil worms. Literalness can be entertaining when it's symbolic.

o "and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake
of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
(Revelation 20:10, ESV)

Where did the beast come from? And the image of the beast? Why was it
be tortured? Don't tell that to animal rights activists. (for answers,
see book of Daniel.

o "Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This
is the second death, the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:14, ESV)

This verse even tells you what it represents: The second death. (not a
second life of torture, but DEATH. (the opposite of life)

o But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for
murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all
liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire
and sulfur, which is the second death.(Revelation 21:8, ESV)

Again it states what the Lake of Fire represents.

o "And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to
hell, to the unquenchable fire." (Mark 9:43, ESV)

If that is literal, then Jesus promotes self mutilation. That's not
the Jesus from the Bible who cured people and didn't disable them.

o "And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better
for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into
hell." (Mark 9:45, ESV) [Context from v. 43 clarifies this is
the same "unquenchable fire."]

See above.

o "And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better
for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two
eyes to be thrown into hell, awhere their worm does not die and
the fire is not quenched.A" (Mark 9:47-48, ESV)

See above.

Thus, just like your god who tortures living beings endlessly, your
Jesus isn't much better by promoting self mutilation. If you want to
know what Jesus really meant there, just ask.

o "His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his
threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the
chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire." (Matthew 3:12, ESV)
o[Spoken by John the Baptist about Jesus.]o

See above.

o "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the
righteous into eternal life." (Matthew 25:46, ESV) o[Preceded
by reference to "the eternal fire prepared for the devil and
his angels" (v.41).]

According to you, guess who else gets eternal life. That's right the
wicked. Your god doesn't know the difference between everlasting life
for the righteous, and everlasting life for the wicked. They ALL get
it.

o "Then he will say to those on his left, aDepart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.A" (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

That is really a symbolic eternal fire. Recall, death is tossed in it.
That shows its face.

o "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the
soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in
hell." (Matthew 10:28, ESV) [The Greek word here is oGehennao,
associated with final judgment.]

Yes, the soul is not immortal, if it was it would continue to live.
But the Bible says it can be destroyed. If you destroy something, you
make it cease to exist.

o "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which
likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural
desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of
eternal fire." (Jude 1:7, ESV)

The subject in that verse which you always take literally, is CITIES.
Do you see those cities on fire today? No? Then you have some
explaining to do.

The Bible says it is not literal.

Not a single passage you cite below "says" it's not literal. Yet that is >your claim. You're not merely saying the Bible "indicates" or "implies",
but that it actually "says" it is not literal. It does not. You are
already trying to build on a falsehood (LIE).

You are not quoting me correctly. Those Scriptures INDICATE and IMPLY
a symbolic fire.

It even tells us what it represents= The second death.
(Rev 20:14) Compare these two:>
-- King James
Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second death.

Exactly. It defines "death" for you right there. Death "IS" the state of >being separated from God in the lake of fire.

That's your GUESS what it means. It nowhere says that.

Death is NOT extinction.
Death is NOT annihilation. Death is NOT a personal being or entity. It
IS the state of being separated from God:

According to you. But according to the Bible, death is nonexistence.
(Ps 146:3,4) (Ec 9:5) Ec 9:10) All those in hell get out of there.
They are all resurrected from hell. (Rev 20:13; KJV) You don't hear
that from the churches, do you?

Show that to your pastor or priest, and see what they say.

Adam died the day he sinned, yet he continued to exist, alienated from
God's fellowship and expelled from the garden, under judgment (Genesis
2:17; Genesis 3:22u24).

You need to study the Bible some more. God's DAY is 1000 years of
ours. So Adam died within God's day. (2 Pet 3:8)

Paul describes unbelievers as odead in trespasses and sinso while they >remain fully conscious and active (Ephesians 2:1, ESV).

Death means separation from God, not extinction, not lack of conscious >torment. That is what occurs when these souls are sent to the lake of
fire. It is death because their soul is being separated from God, just
like it was separated from their body (first death). When they are being >separated from God in the lake of fire, that "IS" the second death.

So according to you, they actually don't experience any literal DEATH.
So you accept that death as being symbolic. (separated from God) Then
look at the rest of those Scriptures as not being literal.

-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.

idem.

Can death be literally scooped up and thrown somewhere? Can hell?

DEATH is cast into it. Can DEATH be picked up and tossed somewhere?

idem.

No it can't. Thus it is an abstract word.

Can DEATH be effected by literal fire? Of course not.

idem.

To begin, as already noted, death is the state of being separated. The
first death is separation from your physical body.

The Bible describes the first death. And it is NOT being separated
from your body. But don't believe me, believe the Bible:

-- New King James
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
and the spirit will return to God who gave it.

"spirit" = life force.

The second death is
separation of your soul from God in the lake of fire. Death is not a >personal entity. It IS the state of being separated from God. The verse
you cite states that being cast into the lake of fire "IS" the second death.

Just like the first death, the second death is non-existence but with
no resurrection like the first one has.

Next, "literal" is not confined to meaning "physical" or "bound by earth >physics", as you imply. God is a "literal" being, yet he is a spirit
(John 4:24).

When you take it literally, like the Lake of Fire, you can't have it
both ways. Either the fire is real or not. (just don't go fishing in
that lake, no telling what you would catch--the wild beast?)

oGod is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit
and truth.oo (John 4:24, ESV)

And it even says God seeks out such ones. So to God, the truth is
important.

God, demons, and human souls neither become nor cease to be literal
beings, based on whether or not you can strike a match and burn them
with physical, earth-physics fire. To contend that something is not
literal unless it is subject to earth physics is a Bible-refuted lie.

You are saying that, I didn't.

Can you burn your thoughts with a camp fire? No. Does that mean you
don't have literal thoughts?

They are literal enough to be snuffed out at death. The same is true
of your life force. It cannot be captured in a lab, yet it is a real
thing.

Thirdly, the lake of fire was prepared for literal spirit beings, not >literal earth-physics beings.

The Bible says that humans are tossed in there. And you say your god
makes them suffer for all eternity. That makes that god the brother of
Satan.

ooThen he will say to those on his left, aDepart from me, you
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his
angels.o (Matthew 25:41, ESV)

Yes, that does present a dilemma. The demons get a SPIRIT fire to
them, and the humans a literal fire. The only way they are both
affected by the same thing, is when both of them are non-existent.
Then they are equal.

Since the fire was prepared for the devil and his angels, it was
obviously not designed to torment physical flesh. It will be a literal
fire that is as suitable for tormenting souls as earth fire is for human >bodies.

DEATH is not a 3
dimentional thing. It does not take up space or have weight. Thus it
can't be effected by hot flames.

No one said it does or is. You are the one who imported that confusion,
then pretended it would have to be that way to be thrown into the lake
of fire. Death is not a personal entity or a soul, or extinction or >annihilation. It is separation. Being separated from God in the lake of
fire "IS" the second death.

Yes, that is what the Scriptures says. But not the way you are
interpreting it. It says that the Lake of Fire IS, yes IS, the second
death. That symbolic Lake represents the second death.

And there is more proof:

Idem. You have offered no convincing evidence, let alone "proof" of your >claim. You imported stupid lies and clustered confusion, then pretended >refuting your own straw man was a victory.

I could say anything, and you would probably find something wrong with
it. When it comes to the Bible, bias should not be involved. It might
draw us away from true Bible teachings.

Hell is tossed into the Lake of Fire.

Which is what the Bible says. Gehenna or Hades is a realm that held
souls of the dead.

It's amazing how far away from Bible truth such statements are. We
have no immortal soul. Eze 18:4 says a soul can die. Gen 2:7 says man
IS a soul.

Gehenna was Jerusalem's fiery garbage dump. It represents complete
destruction.

Hades is hell in the Bible. And it represents the grave. That is why
all people in hell, get out. (Rev 20:13) The churches don't usually
teach that. They have their own doctrines about hell.

There's no reason why that literal realm cannot be
literally separated from God in the lake of fire.

Remember, the Lake of Fire is the "second death".

People
try to tell me that hell is mostly flames. And my former church used
to teach me that hell was for the wicked, and they were in there
forever. And I was a good little Catholic and believed everything they
said. After all, I was just a kid and they were trained theologians.
But now I know the real Bible truth.

Don't let your grudge against Catholics rob you of the truth. You seem
so determined to stick it to Catholics that you're willing to deny the >things they get right, just to oppose them.

I oppose ALL false religions. Why? Because they present to them a road
that ends with a cliff. And I am more familiar with Catholics. So I
might comment more on them.

I've said this many times, but in a classroom in school, the nun told
us that reading the Bible could make you crazy. And only the priests
had the rights to read it. So I ignored the Bible for a long time.

You've already admitted Gehenna was a perpetual, ongoing fire dump that >burned rubbish perpetually. The fire does not keep on burning where
there is no fuel.

That's where the worms come in for biological matter, usually on the
outskirts of the dump.

Non existent things don't require ongoing flames. If
they were not there, there would be no flame to keep tormenting them
"day and night", "forever and ever".

The ONGOING torture of flames symbolizes it is everlasting
destruction.

Hell is Hades in the Bible. And all people will get out of hell:

-- New King James
Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death
and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were
judged, each one according to his works.

...As if being taken out of the frying pan (Luke 16), and thrown into
the fire (lake of fire), were some kind of release from suffering.

If hellfire is like Gehenna, it makes no sense to be taken out of
hellfire to be put into the Lake of Fire. Also, hell contains good and
bad ones, who will be resurrected. (Acts 24:15) That is the real
reason they get out of hell (grave).

Hell is NOT what the churches teach. So be carefull with their
doctrines.

It's you who promotes calculated, Bible-contradicting error about the >meaning of hell. The New Testament uses three distinct words, and
Scripture does not collapse them into one meaning.

Hades (????)

Hades refers to the realm of the dead, not merely a grave. It
corresponds to Sheol in the Old Testament. It is a conscious
intermediate state, not non-existence.
The rich man lifts up his eyes in Hades, being in torment (Luke 16:23, ESV).

Anything can happen in a parable.

Hades will give up the dead who are in it before final judgment
(Revelation 20:13, ESV).

Where do you think the resurrected ones come from? Yes, from the grave
(hell).

A literal grave does not speak, feel torment, or surrender occupants for >judgment.

It is not a literal grave of individuals. It is a composite grave of
ALL dead humans. What happens to all those who lived before Jesus
time? Are they going to be tortured also?

Gehenna (??????)

Gehenna is not the grave.

I never said it was. You are getting confused again. It is equal to
the Lake of Fire. It is symbolic also. It represents everlasting
destruction.

Jesus used a term that the Jews knew. They knew about Gehenna and that
it destroyed what was tossed into it. So Jesus used that as an
example.

Jesus uses it for final judgment after
resurrection.

But NOT right after. Remember, Paul said those who have died have had
their sins removed. (Rom 6:7) The wages of sin is death.

Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28, ESV).

Proof that a soul CAN DIE.

The grave cannot touch the soul. Jesus distinguishes physical death from >post-judgment punishment.

Tartarus (????????)

This term applies to fallen angels, not humans.
God cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy
darkness (2 Peter 2:4, ESV).

This confirms conscious restraint, not cessation.

I never said that Tartarus was non-existence. It is a CONDITION not a
literal place. Those bad angels have had a light cut off from God's
glory. They live in a spiritually darkened mind set. They are involved supporting the ruler of this world. (John 12:31; NKJV)

Key biblical distinctions

The grave (mn?meion, ?????) holds bodies.

Thus souls. (Gen 2:7)

Hades holds conscious persons awaiting judgment.

Totally false. Hades holds those dead souls.

Gehenna describes final, irreversible judgment after resurrection.

Basically correct. But their judgment comes much later than you
suppose. As they come out of their graves, they are sinless. So they
have time to prove themselves to God. THEN THEY ARE JUDGED.

Jesus affirms conscious existence after physical death.

"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul"
(Matthew 10:28, ESV).

Soul here means 'future life'. Your enemy can kill your body, but not
where you will be in the future. They can't stop you from living
forever. Only God can do that.

To be absent from the body means to be present with the Lord (2
Corinthians 5:8, ESV).

Yes, Paul was one of the 144,000, and when he died, he went
immediately to Heaven to rule with Jesus. Rulers need people to rule
over, and they will be those "meek" ones. (Mt 5:5)

Conclusion

Hades does not mean othe graveo in the sense of unconscious
non-existence. Scripture presents it as a real, conscious intermediate >state. The New Testament language remains consistent, precise, and
mutually reinforcing across the Gospels, Epistles, and Revelation.

Sure, after you twist it to meet your doctrines. Can you answer and
explain this Scripture? You already admitted that Sheol is hell in the
OT. Then why did Job want to go to hell to get rid of his pain?

DRA
Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a. time when thou wilt
remember me? [brackets mine]

Notice what word the KJV uses instead of "sheol".

"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, [sheol] that thou wouldest
keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me
a set time, and remember me!" (KJV) [brackets mine]

If Hell is a place of fiery torment, why did Job desire to go there???

On the other hand, if sheol is the grave of non-existence, that's
where Job would want to go to get rid of the agony for a while. He
wanted God to REMEMBER him ie, be resurrected.

Your answer??

Thus the Bible DEFINES what the Lake of Fire really is. (the second
death) And the Bible is from God. (2 Tim 3:16)

Exactly. Being thrown into the lake of fire "IS" the second death. Death >means separation from God in the lake of fire, not "annihilation", not >"extinction", etc. The Bible clearly shows there will be degrees of >punishment, which would not be possible if people simply ceased to exist
at death.

How can "death" be thrown into the Lake of fire?

o Jesus said it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for
Sodom and Gomorrah than for the cities that rejected Him
(Matthew 10:15; 11:22-24). Degrees of tolerability require
conscious awareness. Nonexistence does not vary by degree.

This has to do with JUDGMENT. The judgment of some people may be more
difficult to judge, than others. But in the end, they all get the same
final judgment, and be all equal.

o Jesus also said of Judas, oIt would have been better for that
man if he had not been borno (Mark 14:21, ESV). That cannot be
true if Judas simply ceased to exist. Nonexistence is not worse
than existence unless post-death punishment consciously occurs.

What if you were the brother of Judas back then. How would his actions
affect you? Not good, I'm sure. So it would be better if his mother
had a miscarriage of him.

o Jesus said, oDo not fear those who kill the body but cannot
kill the soulo (Matthew 10:28, ESV). This shows the soul
continues beyond the death of the body.

The word "soul" in the Bible has multiple meanings. You keep ascribing
it just one. That's where you are mistaken.

o Paul said, oWe would rather be away from the body and at home
with the Lordo (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV). This means the
believerAs soul goes to be with Christ after death.

Negatrons. Show me in the Bible where it ever says a soul went to
Heaven? God gave Paul a new spirit body so he could exist in Heaven
with all the other spirit beings.

o Jesus told of Lazarus who, after death, was comforted, while
the rich man was in torment and flame, conscious enough to
speak, remember, and feel regret (Luke 16:22u25). Parables and
symbols do not teach the opposite of what they mean. They
convey truth. So simply saying "parable" or "symbol" doesn't
disprove or automatically dismiss the stated fact of conscious
existence in comfort or torment after physical death. Further,
this account names actual people by name, which parables

never
do.

I think you are the only one I have seen that didn't call that a
parable. So the odds are 1 million+ to 1.

And, how can one drop of water bring relief?? Where was Abraham??
Jesus said no one had gone to Heaven yet. Is hellfire within shouting
distance from Heaven?? Why Abraham's bosom of all things??? The whole
thing screams of a parable.

o John wrote, oThe smoke of their torment goes up forever and
ever, and they have no rest, day or nighto (Revelation 14:11,
ESV). This cannot describe unconscious nonexistence.

Since it brings out "no rest", do other ones in hellfire have rest
among all the flames?? That makes no sense.

The next time you burn your finger or something, just think about what
you are teaching. That a whole body is tossed into a never-ending
fire.

Get a blow torch and put your finger over the flame. That would really
smart. But then continue to hold your finger there forever!!
Now picture your whole body in a fire with no relief. Does that sound
like God or Satan??? It's unimaginable!

o Jesus said, oIt is better for you to enter life crippled than
with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fireo (Mark
9:43, ESV). The fire is unquenchable, not momentary. An eternal
fire serves no purpose unless what it burns endures.

So Jesus teaches self-mutilation? What kind of dieties do you teach?
They sound like crazy maniacs. (are you sure you were not around
during Hitler's time??) Quit chopping down our loving God, making Him
a piece of trash. He would no more do those things, than you would.
(at least I hope not)

o Revelation 20:10 says the devil, the beast, and the false
prophet owill be tormented day and night forever and ever.o

Sick, sick, sick.

It
does not say they will cease to exist.

o Jesus said God is onot God of the dead, but of the living,o
referring to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Matthew 22:32, ESV),
affirming their conscious existence after death.

Where were they then, if no OT person went to Heaven?
No, they were in their graves awaiting the resurrection of Acts 24:15.

o The thief on the cross was told, oToday you will be with me in
Paradiseo (Luke 23:43, ESV). Jesus did not say oafter
resurrection,o but otoday,o showing conscious life after death.

That's where your translators put the comma. But Jesus had to be like
Jonah, and be imprisoned for 3 days and nights. Did Jesus drag that
thief with him for those 3 days?? (Mt 12:40)

These passages all affirm conscious existence and consequences, either
of comfort or judgment after physical death. The Bible nowhere teaches >annihilation after physical death.

Recall Job 14:13. Job did not want to be conscious anymore. He wanted
to get rid of the pain.

Recall, Jesus said Lazarus was 'sleeping' and he was going to AWAKE
him. If he was already conscience, there would have been nothing to
awake. (John 11:11)

"KEEP ON THE WATCH!
War in the Middle East
What does the Bible say?
Find Out". See jw.org (3/1/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me


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