From Newsgroup: alt.bible

<James> wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jan 2026 12:17:20 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

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Sun, 18 Jan 2026 11:27:20 -0500
<bevpmkl0s6pv0jhr85tltak4h0696905cm@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <James> wrote:
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The result of their efforts

was not that people were being saved and introduced into God's kingdom, >>>> but that they were SHUTTING THE DOOR of God's kingdom in the faces of
their proselytes, and making them TWOFOLD the children of hell as they >>>> themselves were!

Most All people are destined for "hell", including you and me. Your
"hell' is not the Bible's hell. (Hades) But you should know that by
now.

Rather than address these Bible facts about the false gospel he
proclaims, he tries to blow a smoke screen of DISTRACTION. He PRETENDS
he is offering a "correction" with an "accurate" understanding of the
word translated "hell", but even that is a lie. He tries to collapse the
meaning of the word into "the grave", as if it meant nothing more than
that the lost ceased to exist. This definition is another LIE, as the
Bible clearly shows:

Hades (????)

Hades refers to the realm of the dead, not merely a grave.

The last time I looked, a grave contains a dead body.

But if there is not one there

Your Hades is
not a hellfire place. The demons want you to flow with the churches' teachings. And that you are. You are making their day.

If I make a comment on something you wrote, I get accused of changing
the subject, or such nonsense. YOU brought the subject up. I am just following through. May God forgive you for teaching anti-Biblical
doctrines.

It
corresponds to Sheol in the Old Testament.

You got that right. Sheol is also the 'grave'. But not just one, but a composite of all the graves. Job wanted to go to SHEOL to get some
relief. Would he do that if sheol was HELLFIRE?? (Job 14:13) Please
compare these two Scriptures:

DRA
Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a. time when thou wilt remember me? [brackets mine]

"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, [sheol] that thou wouldest
keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me
a set time, and remember me!" (KJV) [brackets mine]

The KJV tells you what "hell" represents. "The grave".
And here is more. Acts 2:31 quotes Ps 16:10. So if "Hell in the OT is
the grave, the "hell" in Acts 2:31 is also the grave. Compare these
two Scriptures.

- King James
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
that his soul was not left in hell [Hades], neither his flesh did see corruption. [bracket mine]

CEB
Having seen this beforehand, David spoke about the resurrection of
Christ, that he wasn-At abandoned to the grave [Hades], nor did his
body experience decay.

It is a conscious
intermediate state, not non-existence.

The Bible says the dead do not praise God. A righteous dead person
would still praise God if he was still conscience. BUT THE BIBLE SAYS
THEY DO NOT:

-- American Standard
Psalms 115:17 The dead praise not Jehovah, Neither any that go down
into silence;

Yes, the grave is "SILENCE". No conscienceness.
I am constantly surprised you can't see that, when I present Bible
proof. You do know how to analyze Scripture. Yet you insist on
supporting the churches doctrines of a maniac god of torture.

Those in "hell" get out. The churches usually do not teach that. They
say once you are tossed in, that's it. It's torture forever. Only a
Satanic god would do such a thing.

The rich man lifts up his eyes in Hades, being in torment (Luke
16:23, ESV).

You seem to like that part of the parable, but ignore the rest. Such
as:

A drop of water on your tongue would bring relief if you were in a
blazing inferno. Recall, you are taking it literal, so these facts
occurred.

Notice when the rich man died, he was buried, not lived on somewhere
else.

At any rate, the parable continues:
Those in hellfire can see those in Heaven.
Also, those in hellfire can talk to them.
Lazarus in Abraham's bosom? Being literal as you take it, that is
where people end up, in Abraham's chest area?
I don't even think the churches teach such a thing.

Hades will give up the dead who are in it before final judgment
(Revelation 20:13, ESV).

Hellfire giving up its ones being tortured, doesn't make any sense.
They have ALREADY been judged. That's why they are there in the first
place.

A literal grave does not speak, feel torment, or surrender occupants for
judgment.

That's right. Being in hell means they are not existing anymore. They experienced the first death. When God symbolically takes them out of
there, since according to the BIBLE, they are sinless, they will live
for a while and THEN receive judgment. BUT THEY STILL NEED JESUS'
RANSOM SACRIFICE TO CONTINUE LIVING.

And, speaking of a "different gospel", that's yours. You are a mile
away from Bible truths. God is not a barbaric torturer, God does not
have a split 'brain' consisting of 3 other persons, the pagans firmly
believe in immortal souls (Eze 18:4). The Bible says we ARE souls (Gen
2:7), and so are the things in the oceans. (Gen 1:20) The dead are
death "sleeping", just as Jesus said. (John 11:11)

As you can see, you are teaching a completely different gospel from
that of the Bible. You deny the importance of Mt 24:14, and hardly
speak of it. Yet that was one of the main reasons God sent Jesus to
earth:

- New King James
Luke 4:43 but He said to them, "I must preach the kingdom of God to
the other cities also, because for this purpose I have been sent.''

Don't you see how important that hope is for us sinners? And when you
find those preaching that Good News (gospel), you have found the true
"one faith" religion sent by Jesus. (Eph 4:4,5)

Gehenna (??????)

Gehenna is not the grave.

I never said it was. Don't you read my comments? In the OT, sheol is
the grave. In the NT Hades is the grave.
Gehenna is analogous to the symbolic Lake of Fire, not the grave.
Thus it also represents the SECOND DEATH.

Jesus uses it for final judgment after
resurrection.

But God won't do that RIGHT AFTER the resurrection, because Paul says
they are sinless. Not me. Paul said it, and God inspired him to write
it down:

-- New King James
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But esp notice:

-- Revised Standard
Romans 4:8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not reckon
his sin."

And that's what He does with those in hell:

-- New King James
Romans 6:7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna (Matthew 10:28, ESV).

Yes, the "soul" is not immortal since God can DESTROY it in Gehenna.
Not just torture it for all eternity, but make that person cease to
exist. That's the merciful God of the Bible. Not the maniac god of the churches.

The grave cannot touch the soul. Jesus distinguishes physical death from
post-judgment punishment.

The grave rots the soul (a person, Gen 2:7) Or as the Bible says, it experiences CORRUPTION.

Tartarus (????????)

This term applies to fallen angels, not humans.
God cast them into Tartarus and committed them to chains of gloomy
darkness (2 Peter 2:4, ESV).

Yes, there is no raging fire where they are sent. Even if it was,
literal fire cannot hurt spirit beings. (bad angels) Jude 6 also
discusses that situation.

This confirms conscious restraint, not cessation.

I agree. Tartarus is a place of darkness, where those bad angels will
live for 1000 years. Then God will let them out at the end of the 1000
years. They will mislead many, then God will destroy all wickedness
HUMAINLY, not in the manner the churches teach. (the churches are also
coming down soon, along with all false religions.

Key biblical distinctions

The grave (mn?meion, ?????) holds bodies.
Hades holds conscious persons awaiting judgment.

According to you and the churches, they are being tortured as they
wait for judgment. And what kind of judgment do they receive? Back to hellfire they go. God is more organized than that. He already judged
them once, why a second time???

Gehenna describes final, irreversible judgment after resurrection.

HOLY COW, we actually agree on something!

Jesus affirms conscious existence after physical death.

"Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul"
(Matthew 10:28, ESV).

But God can DESTROY the soul. (future life) Thus a soul is not
immortal.

To be absent from the body means to be present with the Lord (2
Corinthians 5:8, ESV).

As I mentioned to you, Paul is one of the 144,000 (Rev 14:1; 7:4, who
will RULE with Jesus in Heaven (Rev 20:6), over those on the earth.
(Mat 5:5)

Hades does not mean -othe grave-o in the sense of unconscious
non-existence. Scripture presents it as a real, conscious intermediate
state. The New Testament language remains consistent, precise, and
mutually reinforcing across the Gospels, Epistles, and Revelation.

Hades is only a temporary place. During judgments, Hades will be
tossed into the Lake of Fire. Can Hades be tortured??? According to
you, yes. According to the Bible, of course not. They what is it doing
in that Lake of Fire?

-- New King James
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of
fire. This is the second death.

"AWAKE!
Coping With Rising Prices?-uManage Your Funds Wisely
Consider five money-saving tips that can help you manage your
finances.
Learn More". See jw.org (1/19/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me

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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

<James> wrote:

On Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:36:15 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

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Mon, 19 Jan 2026 18:01:19 -0500
<qmdtmklut4usnalu85i3mdp5n2tiva59ba@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <James> wrote:
========================================

Hades does not mean -othe grave-o in the sense of unconscious
non-existence.

What other " sense" is there?

Old age accompanied by senility, dementia

Comas?

Scripture presents it as a real, conscious intermediate

state. The New Testament language remains consistent, precise, and
mutually reinforcing across the Gospels, Epistles, and Revelation.

-o Notice the current subject. "Jehovah's Witnesses" do not preach
the same Gospel the apostles preached (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
You therefore preach "another" gospel, which Paul said is
"accursed" (Galatians 1:8-9). No amount of sophistry, nonsense,
lies and non-sequiturs about the meaning of "Hades" will change
that.

And I agree with Paul's Scripture, and all of them. No amount of misinterpreting Scripture will change that.

-o Your response below does not refute or even address the content
of what is said above. The Bible presents Hades as a *place*
where the souls who occupy it are conscious. You present no
Bible-based argument or evidence to believe otherwise.
Everything which follows is simply your refuted nonsense,
falsehoods, denials and non-sequiturs about the meaning of the
term "Hades".

Then please explain this. Hades is tossed into the Lake of Fire. (Rev
20:14) If Hades is a "place", that doesn't make any sense. If Hades
(grave) is symbolic and the Lake of Fire (everlasting destruction) is symbolic, then it is saying God will never again let people die the
first death and go to a grave for a later resurrection. THAT MAKES
MORE SENSE!

Hades is only a temporary place. During judgments, Hades will be
tossed into the Lake of Fire. Can Hades be tortured??? According to
you, yes. According to the Bible, of course not. They what is it doing
in that Lake of Fire?

-o Idem.

-o Neither I nor the Bible said Hades would be tortured.

-o It does not follow that Hades must be tortured in order to be
thrown into the lake of fire (non-sequitur nonsense).

According to you, the Lake of Fire is a place of a life of torture.
Then so would Hades be.

Hades, OT counterpart, is "sheol". Recall Job wanted to go to sheol
(hell) to get some relief. (Job 14:13) That shows that "sheol" is not
a place of pain.

Now, Psalm 16:10 mentions sheol:

-- New King James
Psalms 16:10 For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You
allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:31 QUOTES part of Ps 16:10, but substitutes "Hades" for
"sheol":

- New King James
Acts 2:31 "he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of
the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.

THUS SHEOL AND HADES REFER TO THE SAME PLACE. If sheol is not a
painful place, then neither is Hades!

"AWAKE!
Coping With Rising Prices?-uManage Your Funds Wisely
Consider five money-saving tips that can help you manage your
finances.
Learn More". See jw.org (1/19/2026)
James: zebrabible@proton.me

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