From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Fri, 31 Oct 2025 14:30:23 -0700, Robert <.robert@mu.way> wrote:

On Oct 30, 2025, James wrote >(Message-ID:<hm07gktg62b0emq65mnv29ij99anntlsd1@4ax.com>):

On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 22:29:24 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way> wrote:

On Oct 20, 2025, James wrote
(Message-ID:<gv2dfkh1hu713ba1ea0jqr059plfro2nqa@4ax.com>):

On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 19:57:55 -0700, Robert<.robert@mu.way> wrote:

On Oct 17, 2025, James wrote
(Message-ID:<kph5fkh8p739pai4u4l5f0j2jo3ukdk95f@4ax.com>):

Lake of Fire = torture on a scale unheard of.

Many people and churches believe the Lake of Fire is literal. People >> > > > > tossed into there are not allowed to die, and literally 'burn to life
everlasting. Can you smell the burning flesh yet? What about the
creator of it? If you believe Jesus is God, then Jesus created it. >> > > > >
The Bible says our God is this:

-- King James
1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Now be honest. Have you ever met a person who is clothed in love, but
also tortures people? Can real LOVE and TORTURE exist together in a >> > > > > sane person? They are complete opposites!!!

But torture and love does exist, though not together.
God is love, and Satan tortures. To attribute God to also being a
torturer, like the churches teach, is downright DEGRADING to God.
God is being dragged through the mud, and accused of being like Satan.
It has to cut His heart in a large way. (Jer 7:31)

At least JW's try to clear God of such sadistic teachings. And they do
it world-wide. To those who listen, they REALLY find God to be a God >> > > > > of love, which He infinitely is.

Sincerely James

oFor a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest >> > > > hell,
and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the
foundations of the mountains.o (Deu 32:22)

oHe maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow,
and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.o >> > > > (Psa
46:9)

oThe LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all
acquit
the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and
the
clouds are the dust of his feet. He rebuketh the sea, and maketh it dry,
and
drieth up all the rivers: Bashan languisheth, and Carmel, and the flower
of
Lebanon languisheth. The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and
the
earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell
therein.
Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness
of
his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down
by
him.o (Nam 1:3-6)

oThe first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with
blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was
burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. And the second angel sounded,
and
as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and
the
third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures
which
were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were
destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from
heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the
rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is >> > > > called
Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men
died
of the waters, because they were made bitter. And the fourth angel
sounded,
and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon,
and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was
darkened,
and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. And
I
beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying >> > > > with a
loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the
other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to
sound!o
(Rev 8:7-13)

And this happens before this earth and the universe around it are burnt
up.

There is far more to this in the scriptures. Why?

To warn the humans of impending doom, death and eternal destruction and
torment. Why?

So they can seek the Lord who will provide a way of escape.

The evil one and his followers seek to poo poo this so as to entrap them
into
the depths of Hell.

There is a way that seems right to men, but the end thereof is the ways of
death.

You all are like the frog in a pot of water saying whatAs the problem, >> > > > as
the temp slowly increases and then dies in ignorance while others feast on
its legs.

You all heard the warnings, yet declare the waters fine.

Ignoring some Scriptures and quoting others, won't settle any issue.

First of all, I agree with any Scriptures you ever quote, since JW's
go solely by the Bible. It's because of that, that we believe as we
do.

We also look at all translations, since most of them agree pretty much >> > > with our NWT Bible. I probably quote either the KJV Bible or the NKJV
Bible more than others. That is, in truth, because it was the only two >> > > bibles the JW used for decades, then they tried to us a JW version of the
NIV and if

forgot what they called that, and it was a flop, so they changed the name >> > and
more words into the NWT. All by people little more intelligent that
yourself,
but in the world of ligurists none of them were certified, nor qualified. >>

That's funny, since a Bible translator of the American Translation,
praised the NWT. If they were all with only kindergarten diplomas,
they sure fooled him:

oI am interested in the mission work of your people, and its world
wide scope, and much pleased with the free, frank and vigorous
translation. It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I
can testify.ouLetter, December8, 1950, from Edgar J.Goodspeed,
translator of the Greek oNew Testamento in An American Translation."
(g87.3/22, p.14)

The version of the JW bible reviewed back then is far different of the >current version. And in fact 20 years ago you did not tout the NW nor the NWT >but a version of the NIV being modified per your doctrinal beliefs of the JW. >The open history, or the one made possible by search engines that us AI bear >this out.

So you might want to clarify that to your leaders. Even if they shut down >their websites purge it, oclean it upo to match with their current
thought, it has been scrubbed by AI search engines and all archived in >multiple places.With all pertinent data so as to verify the authenticity of >its originations.

As for the Lake of Fire, death is tossed in it, along with hell.
(hades) To try to torture death and hell is a waste of time. Thus the
Lake of Fire is symbolic.

Then How come they rode horses?

Those were not NAMES of things riding on flying horses. They were
symbolic representations of those words. Hell (grave) and death
(death) were grabbed and thrown into that symbolic lake of fire. ITS
ALL SYMBOLISM, which is what the Book of Revelation is all about.

Sorry for you bubba, but not only their names are reference but are >referenced as otheyo.

Is Jesus riding on a white horse just a symbolic figure that bears no >resemblance to reality? Is Jesus not a real being?

Winged horses are rather slow when compared to angels. I would presume
the "white" horse would represent sinless, and purity,

And the Bible even tells us what it represents, what it is a symbol
of, what it equals, what it stands for, what it portrays: THE SECOND
DEATH. (Rev 20:14)

The first physical death the spirits go to a literal hell. A holding place of
most demons, and Satan although he has access to the second heaven. And
controls it.

Satan has been ousted from Heaven. He has no control over any part of
Heaven. That was part of his punishment for sinning.

Where do you get this stuff from? If it is churches, I am not
surprised.

I get it from God as revealed in the scriptures. It has been pointed out, to >you, from the Holy Scriptures that you personally reject. And it has been >pointed out to you frequently. Even recently, and yet you continue on in your >unfounded, per God, false beliefs.

And your opinions are still the same. Remember "to love your neighbor
as yourself." And even love and pray for your enemies.

The first death is the death we all inherited from Adam, We all die.

Nope, we all are the walking dead, those who have not been redeemed. At the >moment Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, he isolated himself from the kingdom >of God via his disobedience. He gave up his rights to control his domain to >satan.

Your first death is physical, a separation of yourself from the living >realities of this world. You spirit then goes to its future holding place.

Didn't you know that animals have the same spirit as us?

"Ecclesiastes 3:19
New International Version
19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the
same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have
the same breath[a]; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything
is meaningless.

NIV "Footnotes
Ecclesiastes 3:19 Or spirit"

Thus "breath" here means "spirit". (Notice:

(Ecclesiastes 3:19) for there is an outcome for humans and an outcome
for animals; they all have the same outcome. As the one dies, so the
other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no
superiority over animals, for everything is futile. (NWT)

Whether it be heaven or hell. And I am speaking of ones body being buried in >a grave. Per the proper greek verbiage.

Later, those spirits that died before the return of Christ, will at his >return be given a new and final body, like that of Jesus. Restored to a >complete being. Those in the holding place in the pits of the earth, who >currently dwell with demons are all under the control of Satan.

At the end of this earth, coinciding with the final resurrection of those >that are in hell will be resurrected and brought before the white throne >judgment and Judged By Jesus and all whose names are not written in the book >of life are tossed into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, that is the second >death.

Correct. It is the second death. A death of non-existence. You see
Robert, the second death has nothing hot in it. The second death =
just that, DEATH, NOT LIFE.

Recall Jesus called the dead Lazarus was "sleeping". He was not
floating around in Heaven, nor burning his bippies off in a hellfire.
He was ASLEEP, as Jesus referred to him.

Wherein they are totally and eternally isolated from God. It is what
would be called their spiritual death.

True, but you left out one important point. Not only a spiritual death occurred, but a physical one as well. Recall a Scripture, 'the dead do
not praise God'. They can't, if all their thoughts are gone, and they
don't exist anymore. That is the final judgment for the wicked.

Are you making this up as you go along?

It is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment/

Yes, we all got the first death from Adam. Thank you Adam for blowing
it for the human race. (and thanks Eve)

The second death is a place created for Satan and all his angels
for their final dwelling place and because of sin, men will go there as
well,
all those whose names are not written in the book of Life.

Yes, it is called the book of LIFE. It doesn't say 'life of torture'.
Life is life, death is death. The Bible contrasts LIFE and DEATH, not
LIFE and a life of torture.

The sooner you recognize this, the sooner you will even seek more
Bible truths.

It is called THE

Second Death. It is not a place that can be washed away by your thoughts. >> > Only those whose sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus will be >> > freed of that ending. The antichrist and the false prophet in the GT at the
end will be tossed alive into that place, due to their great sin. Tossed >> > ALIVE, and it sounds like they will be the first two to dwell there.

You like to make things complicated. The second death is the final
death that all those judged adversely get. Unlike the first death,
there is no resurrection from the second death. And according to
Jesus, they are all 'asleep'.

This is all scriptural. Not of my making. Jesus made it very clear to those >without understanding that when he said asleep they could not understand what >he meant, the same as your are doing, and so he stated plainly in words those >who were not spiritual could understand,..... DEAD!

So did Jesus lie??? Jesus knew he was just sleeping. (non-existence)

When the judgment is adverse, they all cease to exist. We have a
loving God who tortures no one. (Jer 7:31) Such thoughts never even
entered His mind. LOVE and TORTURE are not bedfellows. One is the
exact opposite of the other.

I don't understand why you can't see that. It's all written down. You
don't have to be a Greek scholar to understand it. The translation is
in simple English.

I see what I see, via the eyes of God, by His Holy Spirit. I am totally
dependent upon Him per the promises of Jesus and the Heavenly Father. Simple
English is not enough, if you have not the Spirit of God Dwelling in you >> > then
you will miss a lot. In that case going back to the root words will be very
helpful, in fact that is commonly used to show people why they are so
mistaken. That as well as the total content of the scripture both locally as
well as globally.

Did you "test the spirit" as the Bible warns us?

You would not have been aware of that had I not pointed it out to you decades >ago.
In fact, you still do not comprehend what that scripture means as you are >considered a non spiritual one by your organization as well as yourself. >Being in that state you cannot define anything as spiritually of God or >Satan.

Sorry, but your opinions are totally wrong. (I am not surprised)

By the way, you know my religion, what is yours?

I have also told you many times of how it is that I do these things, and you >are aware of that given your final statement below, on the topic. Questioning >me as to how I know that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in me of is it oHoly >Satano? There is no such thing as oHoly Satano and that kind of a
statement only proves that you cannot differentiate the difference between >the Being of God or Satan. The latter who is that deceiving Angel of Light >that guides the JW org.

And that's why we keep on increasing??? Lot's of people recognize
Bible truths when they hear them. Why not you?
Here is a simple example. Job 14:13,

-- New King James
Job 14:13 "Oh, that You would hide me in the grave, that You would
conceal me until Your wrath is past, that You would appoint me a set
time, and remember me!

-- American Standard
Job 14:13 Oh that thou wouldest hide me in Sheol, That thou wouldest
keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, That thou wouldest appoint me
a set time, and remember me!



Job wanted to go to be hidden in sheol to get RELEIF from his agony.
How can you explain that to someone? It's a Bible truth, but believing
your way contradicts it.

-- New King James
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the
spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have
gone out into the world. "

Your Holy Spirit could be Holy Satan, acting as he does being a
creature of light once in a while.

Say that looking in a mirror.

The deceiving angel of light is described in scripture/

Yes, don't be surprised if he does something good for you. He thinks
in terms of the physical. Such as working two jobs to bring in more
money.

Even the demons were afraid of that second death. (of non-existence):

There is the evidence of your greatest mistake, which I have shown you
several times, meaning the nonexistent part

When Lazarus was resurrected he spoke of no Heavenly existence, or a
sadistic torture in a hellfire. No, Jesus said he SLEEPS. (no
activity) (John 11:11)

And to those who did not spiritually understand he spoke plainly,...

Jhn 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had >spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

Jhn 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

This too has been quoted to you innumerable times, yet you continue to >attempt to deceive others with your deceptive false narrative.

Well let's see. "Lazarus is dead" If he is dead, he is dead. but if he
was always alive somewhere, THEN HE WASN'T REALLY DEAD IF HE WAS
LIVING SOME PLACE ELSE, according to you. (Heaven or hellfire)

Each time a person does such a thing it is recorded in Heaven as a witness >against them.

Studying the Bible? I don't think so.

-- New King James
Luke 4:34 saying, "Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus
of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know You, who You are the
Holy One of God!''

They knew their final end, it was given to them, they also know it to be the
Lake of fire. Not just a pit with fire at the bottom of it. They also
recognized something that you deny.

That's your opinion, where is the proof?

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, >ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

His listeners knew what he meant, since they were acquainted with the
Jerusalem trash dump, Himmon, where fires are kept going 24/7.
Remember, Jesus first talked in parables. He used a lot of symbolism
in his speeches.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and >brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented >day and night for ever and ever.

The beast and the false prophet got there first. Both are men which were cast >into the Lake..... Alive, by Jesus and his angels.

In the book of Daniel, he defines what those BEASTS are. It is
governments ran by kings.

The Lake of Fire is symbolic of THE SECOND DEATH.
"death", not a LIFE of torture.

And that he had total power and dominion
over them. They also recognize that power within the hearts of Born Again >> > ones.

An evidence of that was when the demons told a man. I know Paul but just who
are you white boy?!?

But notice what they told Jesus. Did he come here to DESTROY them.
They knew the Bible's teachings that the dead know not anything, and
their thoughts perish. (Ec 9:5,10; Ps 146:4)

That is speaking of the physical, not the everlasting spiritual being. PLUS >your are being totally deceptive in your narrative. The did not say what you >inferred as well as snipped out. Another scriptural proof that you deny. What >the said was,... Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we >to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us >before the time?

Torment can last a few seconds, or days. They would have been
tormented if Jesus came for that reason. They knew their next
'existence' was no existence at all.

You wouldnAt dare post the scriptural link, let alone post the scripture

What Scripture?

since it is in total conflict with what you said above regarding their >already having been judged, which this scripture clearly speaks to as they >already had knowledge of their expected end. One that you do not agree with >nor does the JW org and a few others, all of which are outside of the >knowledge of God.

I don't know where you are getting these opinions of yours. (hint: he
carries a pitchfork)

Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to >> > call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We
adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.

Act 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the >> > priests, which did so.

Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I >> > know; but who are ye?

Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and
overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that >> > house naked and wounded.

Act 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at >> > Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was
magnified.

If you quoted correctly, I accept all Scriptures. But what is your
point?

It was a full part of the context of oPaul I Know, but who are you white >boyo?
Yet you sought to destroy it by deceit. Not even being able to associate it >with these scriptures just above.

Accepting scriptures does not connote full belief of them and you know that.

Sorry, you are wrong. A accept ALL correct Scriptures. False
Scriptures like is found in mostly all Bibles at John 1:1, says that
Jesus was God. Rather it should be "a god".

"Does God Care About You?
When disaster strikes, many turn to God for help. But is he paying
attention?
Find Out" jw.org
James 1/8/2026

Sincerely James

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2