From Newsgroup: alt.bible
On Sun, 21 Dec 2025 19:53:05 -0600, Christ Rose
<
usenet@christrose.news> wrote:
1. oOnly two intelligent lifeforms exist: humans and angels.o
Scripture never states a numerical limit on intelligent or accountable >created beings. Scripture affirms humans and angelic beings, but it does
not assert exclusivity.
True. It also doesn't say Donald Duck isn't living on the planet
Venus. I am just going by what the Bible says.
And it is unlikely there are other life forms out in the cosmos. If
so, does Jesus have to go and die for them also? Did they screw up
just like Adam did? Are there millions of Gardens of Edens? Go figure.
So I will just stick with what is known in the Bible for now.
oFor by him all things were createda whether thrones or dominions or
rulers or authoritieso (Colossians 1:16, ESV)
Scripture also shows that God may grant awareness, communication, and >responsibility beyond ordinary categories, without redefining created kinds.
oThen the Lord opened the mouth of the donkeyo (Numbers 22:28, ESV)
The donkey reasons from lived experience and long habit.
oAnd for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I
will require ito (Genesis 9:5, ESV)
oWhen an ox goresa the ox shall be stonedo (Exodus 21:28u29, ESV)
God assigns judgment and accountability according to His purposes.
Scripture therefore does not support a rigid philosophical claim that
only two kinds of intelligent or accountable agents exist.
It doesn't unsupport it either.
2. oThe dead are unconscious and know nothing.o
Ecclesiastes speaks from the perspective of life under the sun,
describing the cessation of earthly activity.
Yes, we are make of dust, so that is the point of view.
oFor the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothingo >(Ecclesiastes 9:5, ESV)
oThere is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheolo
(Ecclesiastes 9:10, ESV)
The same book affirms continued existence of the spirit.
oThe dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God
who gave ito (Ecclesiastes 12:7, ESV)
The big question here is, what is the spirit? Is it a life form that
contains all your memories etc. (some may call it the "soul") No, it
is not an intelligent life form. The "spirit" in Ec 12:7 is defined in
Strong's Concordance:
"Strong's Ref. # 7307
Romanized ruwach
Pronounced roo'-akh
from HSN7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even
violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by
extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a
rational being (including its expression and functions):
KJV--air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X
side, spirit([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-])wind(-y)."
Its primary definition is "wind". Thus it is a force of some kind. In
this case, it is the life force existing within a person. God gave him
life, and the life returns to God at death.
Spirit also means "a rational being" such as God and the angels. (John
4:23)
New Testament revelation clarifies and exceeds this perspective by >explicitly teaching conscious existence after death.
Not in any translation that is not symbolic, that I know.
oToday you will be with me in paradiseo (Luke 23:43, ESV)
Bad translation. Jesus had to be in the ground for 3 days (like Jonah
in the fish) before he was resurrected. So that paradise Jesus is
talking about is the paradise earth after God cleanses it from
wickedness. (see Jesus at Mt 5:5)
oBeing in torment, he lifted up his eyeso (Luke 16:23, ESV)
Alright let's stay literal. How heavy were his eyes? They must have
been like barbells for him to have to lift them up just to see. This
is an ILLUSTRATION, and not meant to be taken literally.
oWe would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lordo (2 >Corinthians 5:8, ESV)
Yes, the apostle Paul and others back then, were part of the 144,000
and would be going to Heaven at the instant of death. God would give
them a body that could live in the Heavenly existence.
oMy desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far bettero >(Philippians 1:23, ESV)
See above
oThese soulsa cried out with a loud voiceo (Revelation 6:9u10, ESV)
This book is a book of SYMBOLISM, a dragon, beasts with little crowns
on their heads, some with multiple heads, etc. (must be our pollution
got to them) If you take it literally, you enter Disneyland or the
Twilight Zone, take your pick.
The New Testament does not contradict Ecclesiastes; it completes and >clarifies it.
Always.
Ecclesiastes describes life as observed under the sun. The
New Testament reveals the conscious state of the dead before God.
Negatrons. Well, if they are conscience before God, THEN THEY ARE NOT
DEAD! Make up your mind.
3. oPsalm 146 proves thoughts cease at death.o
Psalm 146 addresses earthly plans and purposes.
oOn that very day his plans perisho (Psalm 146:4, ESV)
The KJV says "thoughts perish".
Strong's concurs:
"Strong's Ref. # 7476
Romanized ra`yown
Pronounced rah-yone'
(Aramaic) corresponding to HSN7475; a grasp. i.e. (figuratively)
mental conception:
KJV--cogitation, thought."
Scripture elsewhere teaches continued consciousness, memory, and
awareness after death.
Then they are not dead. They simply pass from one state of
consciousness to another. It's like going asleep. When sleeping we are
in one state, when awake, another.
oThe rich mana lifted up his eyeso (Luke 16:23, ESV)
Here are those heavy eyeballs again.
oRemember me when you come into your kingdomo (Luke 23:42, ESV)
The perishing of plans does not mean the extinction of consciousness.
According to you, THEY NEVER DIE, But just slip into a different
mental and 'physical' state.
4. oDeath described as sleep proves unconsciousness.o
oSleepo describes bodily death.
oOur friend Lazarus has fallen asleepo (John 11:11, ESV)
oLazarus has diedo (John 11:14, ESV)
Jesus defines the metaphor Himself.
Jesus attributes death like sleep. When you are asleep, you are not
conscience. And when you are not dreaming as well, you are as nothing.
(which is what death is really like)
Paul teaches conscious presence after death.
Then the person never really dies. And since according to you, the
deceased person either ends up in Heaven, or hellfire, all humans are
immortal. THAT IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES. (Gen 2:17) And God
didn't created the earth as a breeding station to send people to
Heaven or hellfire. He created it to be inhabited:
-- American Standard
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith Jehovah that created the heavens, the God
that formed the earth and made it, that established it and created it
not a waste, that formed it to be inhabited: I am Jehovah; and there
is none else.
oAway from the body and at home with the Lordo (2 Corinthians 5:8, ESV)
Sleep refers to the bodyAs state, not the soulAs awareness.
5. oGhosts cannot be dead humans.o
Jesus affirms the reality of spirits while denying they possess physical >bodies.
oA spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I haveo (Luke
24:39, ESV)
Yes, that is true for a spirit being. But spirits can manufacture a
physical body in order to interact with humans. Angels in the OT did
that, such as the one that led Lot out of danger.
Jesus does not deny existence. He distinguishes nature.
Scripture forbids inquiry of the dead.
According to you, they are still alive, just in a different state.
There should be nothing wrong with contacting a living person.
But now if they were Scripturally dead (not conscience), it would be
forbidden to contact them because they couldn't. Anyone claiming to be
them, would be the demons.
oOne who inquires of the deado (Deuteronomy 18:11, ESV)
The prohibition presupposes real contact.
oSamuel said to Saulo (1 Samuel 28:15, ESV)
Scripture identifies Samuel. It does not say a demon impersonated him.
It doesn't have to. The Bible already tells you enough to reason that
out.
Samuel is in his 'grave' awaiting the resurrection. What is amazing
about the Bible's teachings, is that we will be able to meet almost
all people of the OT. (Acts 24:15) And even a few in the NT, such as
John the Baptist.
6. oDemons pretend to be dead humans.o
Scripture never teaches demons impersonate deceased humans. Scripture
does teach deception through false righteousness.
There is nothing wrong with drawing conclusions from the Scriptures.
Mary did that when the angel told her about her upcoming pregnancy.
-- King James
Luke 2:19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her
heart.
oEven Satan disguises himself as an angel of lighto (2 Corinthians
11:14, ESV)
Remember the Fatima experience? He is a master trickster.
oSo it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as
servants of righteousnesso (2 Corinthians 11:15, ESV)
That's right. Those who know much of the Bible are not fooled by their shenanigans.
This includes demons pretending to be oJehovahAs Witnesses,o acting like >angels of light while they deny the true identity of Christ, corrupt the >saving gospel, and promote darkness, death, and damnation.
They would be stupid to do that. Like you do, they are going to get
more persecution than listening ears. No, what they control is the
churches, who perpetuate a torturous god of eternal pain. They are so
pleased that so many people are falling for their deception, it really
makes their day!
But they are not happy with JW's, who know the truth about them, and
exposes them. If it wasn't for Jehovah's protection, we would be like
a smear on a windshield.
7. oUAPs must be demons because they defy physics.o
Scripture never mentions extraterrestrials, UAPs, or physical forces
such as G-forces.
Of course not, it is not a science book, but a religious one. But we
were given reasoning power, and can use it.
For example, can fire hurt angels? We can deduce NO, after reading the
account of the 3 Hebrews in Daniel. Also when Jesus was resurrected
(by himself?) by God, did he have the same body? No. How do we know?
One way is that when he appeared to Mary Magdalene, she thought he was
the gardener. So not even close to the same body.
oThe secret things belong to the Lord our Godo (Deuteronomy 29:29, ESV)
Assigning modern phenomena to demons lacks biblical warrant.
Some of these seriel killers that have mutilated and even ate their
victims, have said they heard voices in their head telling them to do
that. True, there are diseases such as schizophrenia that can cause
the same thing. But even in Jesus' day, people were possessed by
demons, and Jesus would get rid of them. Today we are stuck with them.
8. oDemons are not bound by natural limits.o
Scripture teaches demons are powerful but finite creatures under GodAs >authority.
oOnly against him do not stretch out your hando (Job 1:12, ESV)
Demons are not omniscient.
oNow we know who you areuthe Holy One of Godo (Mark 1:24, ESV)
They gain knowledge by encounter, not by all-knowing awareness.
Demons are not omnipresent.
oThen it goes and brings with it seven other spiritso (Matthew 12:45, ESV)
Any freedom from physical constraints does not imply divine attributes
or unlimited power.
9. oDemons kill humans at will.o
Scripture denies autonomous demonic authority over life and death.
People in the occult have been known to be injured or killed, likely
by demons.
There is an account in the Bible, where a boy kept trying to kill
himself (unwillingly). Jesus drove the demon out and saved him. (Mt
17:14-18)
There is a JW reference in Africa where a man in the occult, had his
head twisted 360. So they are not something to play around with.
oOnly spare his lifeo (Job 2:6, ESV)
God alone governs life and death.
10. oOccult practices attract demons.o
Scripture forbids occult practices without explaining unseen mechanisms.
oWhoever does these things is an abomination to the Lordo (Deuteronomy >18:12, ESV)
The condemnation rests on rebellion against God, not speculative >explanations.
Disobeying God can bring about many 'curses'.
11. oHitler, the Ark, and occult power.o
Scripture does not address Hitler. (Duhh) Scripture condemns treating holy >objects as instruments of power.
The Scriptures do not even want God's servants from having in their
possessions "holy objects". People tend to worship them, and that
brings out anger from God.
Your god is probably going to pull their fingernails out real slow,
before tossing them in the 'Holy Fire'.
oLet us bring the arka that it may save uso (1 Samuel 4:3, ESV)
IsraelAs superstition brought judgment, not power.
Hitler and his mercinaries didn't know that. He just read or heard the
accounts of great power in them, like the fall of Jericho with the
ark.
12. oPeace and securityo as end-times deception.
oWhen people say, aThere is peace and security,A then sudden destruction >will comeo (1 Thessalonians 5:3, ESV)
Scripture explains why deception succeeds.
oGod sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is
falseo (2 Thessalonians 2:11, ESV)
That is a real sign that will be literally fulfilled. They may believe
that there is peace and security, whether there really is or not, they
will SAY it, then destruction follows.
oBecause they refused to love the truth and so be saveda who did not
believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousnesso (2 Thessalonians >2:10u12, ESV)
Deception follows rejection of the saving gospel and delight in >unrighteousness.
13. Governing biblical principle.
oNot to go beyond what is writteno (1 Corinthians 4:6, ESV)
Yes, the churches need to memorize that Scripture. For example, the
4th century Trinity is way beyond what is written. The celebrations of
pagan holidays, even Christmas. The Bible doesn't ONCE describe any of
Jesus' apostles or the apostle Paul celebrating Jesus' birth. None,
ziltch, zero. Take a hint from God!
Claims about unconscious souls, demon impersonation of the dead,
unlimited demonic power, and modern phenomena exceed what Scripture states.
Gen 2:7 says a soul is a person. Eze 18:4 says a soul can die. Demons
imitating dead people happens all the time. People call them ghosts.
And very few ghosts are considered righteous. The majority are at
least troublesome. And at most, deadly.
The consistent error throughout JamesAs argument is not quoting
Scripture, but freezing revelation at selective passages while ignoring
how later Scripture clarifies, corrects, and completes earlier
perspectives.
Your OPINION is noted. But not all agree with your opinion.
The Bible progressively reveals that the dead remain
conscious
Then they are not dead, are they. They are just alive under a
different environment.
, that spiritual beings remain finite creatures under GodAs
authority,
Yes, living forever is DEPENDANT upon obeying God's commands.
Otherwise one don't live forever. (1 John 2:17)
The gift of righteousness is EVERLASTING LIFE. Everlasting
non-existence is just the opposite.
that deception succeeds through moral rejection of the gospel
rather than secret knowledge,
Nonsense.
and that God alone defines the unseen
realm. Where Scripture speaks, it speaks clearly. Where Scripture
remains silent, believers must not speculate.
But reasoning on the Scriptures is permitted. (see Acts 17:2,3)
The governing safeguard
remains submission to the full counsel of God, read canonically, >Christ-centered, and constrained by what is written (1 Corinthians 4:6, >ESV).
Of course.
And the churches need to PROVE their doctrines such as an immortal
soul. (Eze 18:4) Otherwise you are hearing nothing but teachings of
demons. (1 Tim 4:1)
"THE GOOD NEWS ACCORDING TO JESUS
Episode 1: The True Light of the World
In this episode, see the amazing events that led up to JesusA birth.
Watch This Video".
See jw.org (12/22/2025)
James:
zebrabible@proton.me
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