From Newsgroup: alt.bible

On Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:05:24 -0600, Christ Rose
<usenet@christrose.news> wrote:

========================================
Thu, 20 Nov 2025 21:08:18 -0500
<uituhkh6jvn5hni026ggib778vnf09k6a6@4ax.com>
"Sincerely", "soley from the Bible" and
"Honestly is my middle name"
James <James> wrote:
========================================

John 1:1 in the ESV reads, oIn the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was Godo (John 1:1, ESV). The text uses the
Greek theos without an article, not to demote the Word, but to emphasize >>> His divine nature. The Word possesses everything true of God Himself.
John then declares that the Word created all things (John 1:3, ESV).

Yes, they were created THROUGH Jesus, not 'by' Jesus.

False "distinction". The text does not give room for that escape. John >writes, oAll things were made through him, and without him was not any
thing made that was madeo (John 1:3, ESV). The preposition dia with the >genitive does not make the Son a passive instrument. Scripture uses the
same construction to describe the FatherAs own creative work. oFor from
him and through him and to him are all thingso (Romans 11:36, ESV). No
one argues that this wording makes the Father a secondary agent. It
reveals the mode of divine action.

You are back-tracking. First Jesus was created. (Col 1:15)Next, God
created everything else THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus. It's not that
difficult.

John begins by identifying the Word as fully God (John 1:1, ESV).

And other translations say "a god". Obviously there has got to be some controversy about that Scripture. I have given you that controversy
many times, including the Catholic Encyclopedia's explanation. (in
which they ignored their own research)

But John in other places, describes Jesus as NOT GOD, but "God's Son".
(John 10:36; 19:7; 1 John 4:15)

He
then states that every created thing came into being through the Word.
If the Word Himself were a created being, He would belong to the
category othings that came into being.o John excludes that. oWithout him
was not any thing made that was madeo (John 1:3, ESV). The Word stands >outside the created order. He brings it into existence.

You are back-tracking again. First there is JESUS, THEN all the rest.
It really is not that difficult. No need to water down the Scriptures
to change its meaning.

Later revelation affirms the same truth. oBy him all things were
created, in heaven and on earthaall things were created through him and
for himo (Colossians 1:16, ESV). Both phrases stand side by side. The
Spirit uses en aut?, dia autou, and eis auton to show the Son as the
source, the agent, and the goal of creation. None of this language fits
a creature.

More back-tracking, which is confusing the Scripture. Jesus is
referring to everything from that point on.

Hebrews announces the same reality. The Father oappointedo the Son heir
of all things and othrough whom also he created the worldo (Hebrews 1:2, >ESV). Yet, only a few verses later, the Father addresses the Son with
the words of Psalm 102, a psalm about YahwehAs unchanging eternity:
oYou, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the >heavens are the work of your handso (Hebrews 1:10, ESV).

Yes, God created all things. (Gen 1:1), But did so through Jesus.

The Father Himself says the heavens are the work of the SonAs hands.

Negatron. Paul is quoting parts of Ps 102:16-22,

16. For Jehovah hath built up Zion; He hath appeared in his glory.
17. He hath regarded the prayer of the destitute, And hath not
despised their prayer.
18. This shall be written for the generation to come; And a people
which shall be created shall praise Jehovah.
19. For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; From
heaven did Jehovah behold the earth;
20. To hear the sighing of the prisoner; To loose those that are
appointed to death;
21. That men may declare the name of Jehovah in Zion, And his praise
in Jerusalem;
22. When the peoples are gathered together, And the kingdoms, to
serve Jehovah. (ASV)

Thus it is talking about God, not Jesus.

John 1:3 does not present the Word as a subordinate craftsman. It
declares Him the eternal Creator who stands on the divine side of the >Creatorucreation divide.

-- New King James
John 1:3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing
was made that was made.

Except Jesus. John 1:1 already established Jesus existence, so it goes
on from that point in time.

"THE GOOD NEWS ACCORDING TO JESUS
Episode 1: The True Light of the World
In this episode, see the amazing events that led up to JesusA birth.
Watch This Video".
See jw.org (12/21/2025)
James: zebrabible@proton.me
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From Newsgroup: alt.bible

========================================
Sun, 21 Dec 2025 12:09:00 -0500
<6h8gkkhhg51efvhu515gm2p9dgn7n5oale@4ax.com>
Watchtower Heretic James <James> wrote: ========================================

False "distinction". The text does not give room for that escape. John
writes, rCLAll things were made through him, and without him was not any
thing made that was maderCY (John 1:3, ESV). The preposition dia with the
genitive does not make the Son a passive instrument. Scripture uses the
same construction to describe the FatherrCOs own creative work. rCLFor from >> him and through him and to him are all thingsrCY (Romans 11:36, ESV). No
one argues that this wording makes the Father a secondary agent. It
reveals the mode of divine action.

You are back-tracking. First Jesus was created. (Col 1:15)

That is a clear, calculated, Bible-contradicting lie.

rCo The text does not say all "other" things. That's an eisegetical
LIE inserted by Watchtower to try and support their calculated
denial that Christ is God. They wouldn't have to insert it
there if they didn't understand that the passage (as it is),
demonstrates Jesus is God the Creator. See
https://www.christrose.news/nwt

rCo You keep trying to brainwash the same refuted lie that
"firstborn" must mean created. It has been repeatedly
demonstrated that this is a Bible-contradicting LIE, as
evidenced by the following considerations:

rCLI will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of
the earth.rCY (89:27, ESV)

David was the youngest son of Jesse, not the first created or
first born by birth order. rCLFirstbornrCY clearly denotes
supremacy and royal rank, not origin.

rCLThen you shall say to Pharaoh, rCyThus says the LORD, Israel is
my firstborn son.rCOrCY (4:22, ESV)

Israel was not the first nation created. God uses rCLfirstbornrCY
to signify covenant priority and representative status among
the nations.

rCLFor I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.rCY
(31:9, ESV)

Ephraim was not JosephrCOs firstborn; Manasseh was. rCLFirstbornrCY
expresses preeminence by divine choice, not chronological
birth.

rCLBut his father refused and said, rCyI know, my son, I knowrCa the
younger shall be greater than he.rCOrCY (48:19, ESV)

Jacob deliberately assigns the rights of the firstborn to the
younger son. The concept centers on inheritance and authority,
not creation order.

These uses establish that rCLfirstbornrCY (prototokos) regularly
means rank, inheritance, and supremacy, which governs its
meaning in Colossians 1:15, since it also says He created
"all" things , NOT all "other" things (Watchtower, NWT LIES).

Next, God
created everything else THROUGH Jesus and for Jesus.

LIES.

rCo Colossians 1:15 does NOT say "other" or "everything else". It
says He created "all" things. John 1 teaches the same thing.
Watchtower INSERTED that LIE into the NWT text in a calculated
effort to deny Christ is God, since they know that without that
word it clearly shows Jesus is God the Creator.

rCo Despite your effort to brainwash people by repeating the same
refuted lies over and over and over and over, "through" does
not mean Jesus was NOT the creator of "all" things, since the
same word is used of God the Father:

rCLFor from him and through him and to him are all things. To
him be glory forever. Amen.rCY (11:36, ESV)

The Father stands as the ultimate source, the sustaining
agent, and the final goal of all things. Scripture explicitly
uses rCLthroughrCY of God Himself, not merely of the Son.

rCLOne God and Father of all, who is over all and through all
and in all.rCY (4:6, ESV)

Paul applies rCLthroughrCY directly to the Father, describing His
active, permeating agency in all creation and among His
people.

rCLPaul, an apostlerConot from men nor through man, but through
Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the
deadrCorCY (1:1, ESV)

The same word rCLthroughrCY governs both Jesus Christ and God the
Father. The Father acts rCLthroughrCY just as truly as the Son,
overturning the claim that rCLthroughrCY implies a lesser or
created status.

These passages show that Scripture freely uses rCLthroughrCY of
God the Father. Therefore, rCLthroughrCY language cannot imply
createdness or inferiority when applied to Christ.

It's not that difficult.

The only way it becomes "not that difficult", is AFTER you succeed in
SEARING your own conscience to INSERT A LIE into the passage WHICH IS
NOT THERE in the Greek. It doesn't say all "other" things.

Then, like the stark-raving hypocrite you are, you routinely INSIST that
if something you don't want to be in the Bible isn't directly stated in
the Bible (such as "patibulum" or "cross-beam" or "oars" on boats), then
it MUST mean ONLY what the text itself says (e.g. "staurus"), to the
EXCLUSION of any additional words or meanings. You don't fool me. You
don't promote lies like this ignorantly or unknowingly.
--
Have you heard the good news Christ died for our sins (rCa), and God
raised Him from the dead?

That Christ died for our sins shows we're sinners who deserve the death penalty. That God raised Him from the dead shows Christ's death
satisfied God's righteous demands against our sin (Romans 3:25; 1 John
2:1-2). This means God can now remain just, while forgiving you of your
sins, and saving you from eternal damnation.

On the basis of Christ's death and resurrection for our sins, call on
the name of the Lord to save you: "For 'everyone who calls on the name
of the Lord will be saved'" (Romans 10:13, ESV).

https://christrose.news/salvation

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