• Re: Apple Montage / Will Dockery (c & c welcome)

    From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 00:12:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    General Zod wrote:
    On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 5:45:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:


    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Good let's discuss this now and sort out Pen's lies....




    Thst could take weeks.

    EfyA


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 10:02:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    Anonymous wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    mydemon...@gmail.com wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Define "poetry montage."


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)




    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 15:12:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    HTH and HAND.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 10:39:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    This is still obvious ^^^


    Define "poetry montage."



    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.


    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060



    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.






    Donkeyshit!

    This argument was settled long ago.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    Nor can you point out so much as *one* apple.

    Lacking evidence to support your claim, you haven't any case.

    End of story.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 15:57:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    HTH and HAND.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 11:30:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.



    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.





    I couldn't care less what your poem uses, Donkey.

    I'm just pointing out what to everyone else is an obvious fact.

    Again:

    This argument was settled long ago.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    Nor can you point out so much as *one* apple.

    Lacking evidence to support your claim, you haven't any case.

    End of story.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 11:52:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>


    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.




    I couldn't care less what your poem uses



    Obviously.

    EfyA


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700163523#700163523




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 13:01:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>>


    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.




    I couldn't care less what your poem uses


    Obviously.

    EfyA



    No apples or montages in this photo, either, Donkey.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 13:09:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Montage / Orson Welles:
    https://youtu.be/UrKvlB8F2qY?si=QjVnRCyWbpUbYrTL


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700165093#700165093




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 13:11:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>>>


    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.




    I couldn't care less what your poem uses


    Obviously.




    No apples or montages in this photo, either



    "The trees, boss, the trees."
    -Tattoo

    https://youtu.be/UrKvlB8F2qY?si=QjVnRCyWbpUbYrTL


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 18:24:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.
    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    I couldn't care less what your poem uses


    Obviously.

    No apples or montages in this photo

    You're mistaken.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 6 13:34:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.
    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    I couldn't care less what your poem uses


    Obviously.

    No apples or montages in this photo



    You're mistaken.






    Point one out, you jackass.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed Jan 7 03:01:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.
    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    I couldn't care less what your poem uses

    Obviously.

    No apples or montages in this photo

    I don't remember the photograph right now and I'm not on JLA Forums but I think it was an example of how the trees looked in my dream that the poem was based on.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed Jan 7 02:47:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>


    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.



    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.




    The entire poem is montage.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed Jan 7 07:57:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.
    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    I couldn't care less what your poem uses

    Obviously.

    No apples or montages in this photo



    I don't remember the photograph right now and I'm not on JLA Forums but I think it was an example of how the trees looked in my dream that the poem was based on.




    A group of people sitting on a rock in front of a forest is not an example of montage, you dumbass.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Wed Jan 7 08:09:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..



    Here ^^^


    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>>


    Here ^^^


    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.



    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.



    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.



    The entire poem is montage.



    How stupid are you, Donkey?

    Do you still not know what a montage is?

    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 04:59:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.
    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    I couldn't care less what your poem uses

    Obviously.

    No apples or montages in this photo

    I don't remember the photograph right now and I'm not on JLA Forums but I think it was an example of how the trees looked in my dream that the poem was based on.

    A group of people sitting on a rock in front of a forest is not an example of montage

    Not completely, of course.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 09:53:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***
    Original text restored.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 10:35:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will-Dockery wrote:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.



    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.






    Is the title of your poem "Apple Tree Montage"?

    No.

    Words matter.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 17:18:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.

    HTH and HAND.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 14:20:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I've known about montage since the 1970s.


    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.



    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.


    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem



    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.





    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage form, Donkey.

    Your poem is *not* in a similar form.

    Please explain how you think your two scenes and a bridge constitutes a "montage."

    Or, even better, admit that you wouldn't know a montage if you fell over one and STFU.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 20:38:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I've known about montage since the 1970s.


    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.


    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.

    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage form, Donkey.

    Your poem is *not* in a similar form.

    There's no set form for a montage in poetry.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Thu Jan 8 18:37:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I've known about montage since the 1970s.


    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.


    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.

    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage form, Donkey.

    Your poem is *not* in a similar form.



    There's no set form for a montage in poetry.





    You had said that "It's a poem in montage form." It is not. A "montage poem" has a definite form.

    Now you've corrected yourself (Good Donkey!), to say that there's "no set form for a montage in poetry."

    This is true, since "montage" is primarily used in film.

    Montage is based on the juxtaposition of images, whereas poetry is created with words; so the language of the cinematic medium is rarely transposed to the latter.

    But as I've pointed out to you, the only portion of your poem which could be said to function like a montage, is the bridge (trees behind trees behind trees). But the bridge is merely a linking device used to transition from the first scene (Will and Jenny smoking behind the barn) to the second (Will watching Dad and Uncle Fester cooking up a batch of apple cider).

    It is the least significant part of the poem -- and a bizarre choice to use for a part of the title.

    And, again, there are no apples in it.

    Nor are there, necessarily, any apple trees. The trees behind trees could be apple trees... or they could be pine trees, or maple trees, or willows. You don't bother to tell us what kind of trees they are, so they're whatever the reader chooses them to be. (I see them as great scots pines.)

    You used the title because you thought it was "snappy." You've said so in the past.

    The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 00:48:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) wrote in news:y4KdnSjXE_5H3f30nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my
    de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in
    poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in
    which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time,
    and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large
    amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by
    juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or
    intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition.
    In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes
    editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside
    the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create
    symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by
    British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest
    the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined
    numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves,
    split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of
    lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which
    is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has
    *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry,
    does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple
    free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at:
    http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is
    apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson
    Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I've known about montage since the 1970s.


    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate
    images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger
    picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the
    Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to
    create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that
    one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a
    montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with
    a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of
    transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to
    the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.


    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.

    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage
    form, Donkey.

    Your poem is *not* in a similar form.



    There's no set form for a montage in poetry.





    You had said that "It's a poem in montage form." It is not. A
    "montage poem" has a definite form.

    Now you've corrected yourself (Good Donkey!), to say that there's "no
    set form for a montage in poetry."

    This is true, since "montage" is primarily used in film.

    Montage is based on the juxtaposition of images, whereas poetry is
    created with words; so the language of the cinematic medium is rarely transposed to the latter.

    But as I've pointed out to you, the only portion of your poem which
    could be said to function like a montage, is the bridge (trees behind
    trees behind trees). But the bridge is merely a linking device used
    to transition from the first scene (Will and Jenny smoking behind the
    barn) to the second (Will watching Dad and Uncle Fester cooking up a
    batch of apple cider).

    It is the least significant part of the poem -- and a bizarre choice
    to use for a part of the title.

    And, again, there are no apples in it.

    Nor are there, necessarily, any apple trees. The trees behind trees
    could be apple trees... or they could be pine trees, or maple trees,
    or willows. You don't bother to tell us what kind of trees they are,
    so they're whatever the reader chooses them to be. (I see them as
    great scots pines.)

    You used the title because you thought it was "snappy." You've said
    so in the past.

    The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is.

    I'm tempted to try that out as my .sig file.
    --
    "Post-editing someone's statement before replying to it is a sure sign
    that you have already lost the argument." - Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 02:41:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Your poem does not even suggest any of the above.

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, this is not an example of montage poetry, does not contain an example of a montage in it, and is 100% apple free.

    You really need to read the articles you link before posting them.

    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage.

    Do you still not know what a montage is?



    I've known about montage since the 1970s.


    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.


    A montage poem is *structured* to present a series of separate images/ideas that, when taken together, create a bigger picture/concept.

    Here is an example of a montage poem:

    HOLIDAY SEASON

    Christmas carols, jingle bells
    Snowflakes, snowballs, Yuletide spells,
    Stringing popcorn, trimming trees
    Bedtime prayers on bended knees,
    Roasted chestnuts, gingerbread
    Rum-fed fruitcake, wooden sled
    Hearthside glances, mistletoe
    Romances by candleglow,
    Winter wishes, Winter cheer
    Usher in the coming year.

    Christmas cookies, pumpkin pie
    Reindeer flying 'cross the sky,
    Sprigs of holly deck the halls
    Girls dress up for Winter balls,
    Rum punch, egg nog, nutmeg, clove
    Choirs singing hymns of love,
    Angels perched atop each tree
    Elves on shelves for all to see,
    Figgy puddings, fatted geese
    Red wool stockings trimmed with fleece,

    Ghosts of Christmas Future, Past
    Christmas presents here at last!
    Midnight masses, Santa comes,
    Fairies made of sugarplums,
    Watch for Rudolph's nosey glow
    Crosby on the radio,
    Manger scenes, a silent night
    Dreams of Christmases of white,
    Peace on earth, goodwill to men
    Christmas time is here again.

    There is no narrative -- just a list of things related to the Holiday season.

    The succession of Holiday-related images play off of one another to create a bigger concept (an embodiment of the Holiday season) that one would not get from any of the images taken singularly.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure, it is not a montage poem.

    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.


    Untrue, since the trees described are *apple* trees.

    Is the title of your poem

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    It's a poem in montage form.

    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage form, Donkey.

    Your poem is *not* in a similar form.




    Like I said, there's no set form for a montage in poetry.

    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 08:17:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***
    Original text restored, troll content removed.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 08:51:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="Will Dockery"]mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure




    DONKEY: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Please try to keep up.


    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    DONKEY:There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    MMP: The trees are not described at all. (Look up the definition of "describe.")

    The trees are not even *identified* as apple trees in your poem.

    Just because you see them as apple trees doesn't mean that they are. You need to *identify* them as apple trees in your poem.

    This is a major problem with your writing in general. You consistently fail to identify/describe people, places, and things in your poem. You refer to characters by nicknames in one line, then have them disappear from the poem without any explanation as to who they are. You introduce characters with pronouns without first telling the readers who "he" or "she" is. You ramble off street addresses in Columbus as if readers are expected to be familiar with them.

    And here, you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.



    MMP: Is the title of your poem




    MMP: Why did you you post-edit my question, Donkey?

    DONKEY: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."


    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    DONKEY: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: No, Donkey, it isn't. Its *form* is that of two scenes with a transitional bridge.

    I've explained to you how "Holiday Season" is a poem in montage form




    DONKEY: I've explained my use of montage effects in my poem several times, also.

    MMP: No Donkey, you haven't.


    There's no set form for a montage in poetry.

    You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."




    DONKEY: That's correct.

    MMP: A poem in "Montage Form" would, by definition, be a poem that is structured as a series of verbal images, presented in a non-narrative format, wherein the juxtaposition of said images creates a larger image that comprises them.

    This is not even remotely the structure of "Appleless Nontage."


    Now you've corrected yourself, to say that there's "no set form for a montage in poetry."

    This is true, since "montage" is primarily used in film.

    Montage is based on the juxtaposition of images, whereas poetry is created with words; so the language of the cinematic medium is rarely transposed to the latter.




    DONKEY: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot and repeating that, but you remain incapable of pointing these "montage effects" out.


    But as I've pointed out to you, the only portion of your poem which could be said to function like a montage, is the bridge (trees behind trees behind trees). But the bridge is merely a linking device used to transition from the first scene (Will and Jenny smoking behind the barn) to the second (Will watching Dad and Uncle Fester cooking up a batch of apple cider).

    The trees behind trees could be apple trees




    DONKEY: Correct.

    MMP: Of course it's correct, Donkey. I said it.

    The operative word, however, is "could."

    They could also be any other type of tree.


    You used the title because you thought it was "snappy."




    DONKEY: The title also describes the montage effects used in the poem.

    MMP: The title doesn't describe anything, Donkey. You really need to look up the definition of "Describe."


    it doesn't apply to the poem




    DONKEY: Yes, it does.

    The poem is a montage in poetry form.

    MMP: There you go stomping your foot and shouting "Is too! Is too!" again.

    I'm still waiting for an explanation as to *how* it's in montage form.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 10:27:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.



    No really, there's no ser "montage form" in poetry.


    Your poem, as I've told you several dozen times, is two scenes with a bridge. The bridge could be envisioned as a montage (a means of transitioning between the two scenes) but it is inconsequential to the action of either. And it doesn't contain any images of apples.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.



    DONKEY: In context that's obvious.

    MMP: No, Donkey, it isn't.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    According to the above excerpt, there were "several" apple trees behind the barn. Behind the apple trees there were unidentified trees, a field, then more unidentified trees.

    There is no reason for the reader to suspect that any of the trees (except for the few that were behind the barn) were apple trees.

    Nor is there any reason for the reader to believe that the apple trees behind the barn were bearing fruit.

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).

    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.


    Is the title of your poem

    DONKEY: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    DONKEY: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."

    DONKEY: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    MMP: First, you didn't. Second, even if you had, that would not make it a "montage poem."

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot



    DONKEY: Look who's talking.





    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is. I've also explained what a "montage poem" is -- and provided you with an example.

    I've also explained *how* the example qualifies as a "montage poem."

    I have asked you, repeatedly, to explain *how* your poem, which is presented in the form of two scenes with a transitional bridge, qualifies as a "montage poem."

    I have also asked you, repeatedly, to point out any "montage effects" within the body of your poem.

    I even went so far as to identify the *only* example of a "montage effect" in your poem for you.

    So, yes... let's look at who's talking.

    My poem, Holiday Season, is a montage poem. It is a non-narrative poem comprising a series of verbal images associated with the holiday season. Taken individually, the verbal images have no greater meaning beyond the things they specifically represent (Christmas songs, stocking, carols, etc.); but when taken together, they encompass the Holiday Season as a whole.

    Your poem, Apple Montage, has no apples in it -- only apple trees and apple cider. And the only (arguable) montage in it is a description of the land which serves as a transitional bridge between the two scenes depicted in the poem.

    You cannot explain how your poem is in "montage form" because it isn't.

    You cannot point to any "montage effects" in your poem because they aren't there.

    The title "Holiday Season" is appropriate for my poem because the individual images, when taken together, combine to present an all-encompassing vision of the Holiday Season. IOW: The title is a direct reflection of the content.

    Your title "Apple Montage" is inappropriate, since there is no montage of apples in your poem. An accurate title would be "Apple-Scented Memories" or "My Uncle's Apple Orchard."

    "Apple Montage" simply demonstrates that you've no idea as to what a "montage" actually is.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 15:14:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    MMP: No, Donkey, it isn't.



    I think it is.


    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).



    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now.


    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.



    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.


    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."



    That's correct.


    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."



    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.


    MMP: You keep stamping your foot



    Exactly the same could be said about you.


    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.



    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.


    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is



    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.





    No, Donkey, you haven't.

    Your poem is structured as two scenes with a transitional bridge.

    The transitional bridge could arguably be considered a "montage," but one doesn't title a poem after a transitional device.

    Just admit that you don't know what a montage is (and, in all likelihood, never will), and stop wasting both our time.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 23:42:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    MMP: No, Donkey, it isn't.



    I think it is.


    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).



    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now.


    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.



    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.


    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."



    That's correct.


    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."



    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.


    MMP: You keep stamping your foot



    Exactly the same could be said about you.


    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.



    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.


    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is

    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.

    you haven't

    Yes, it was a poem using montage effects, but of course I don't expect you to admit it.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 18:55:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    You cannot point out *one* specific example of montage in your poem.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    you expect readers to know that by "trees" you mean "apple trees" -- and that the apple trees are bearing fruit.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    MMP: No, Donkey, it isn't.



    I think it is.


    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).



    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now. >>

    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.



    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.


    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."



    That's correct.


    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."



    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.


    MMP: You keep stamping your foot



    Exactly the same could be said about you.


    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.



    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.


    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is

    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.

    you haven't



    Yes, it was a poem using montage effects, but of course I don't expect you to admit it.





    How's this for a compromise?

    It's as much a poem using montage effects as it is a poem, or as you are a poet.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat Jan 10 00:11:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).

    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now.

    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.

    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.

    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."

    That's correct.

    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."

    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot

    Exactly the same could be said about you.

    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.

    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.

    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is

    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.

    you haven't

    Yes, it was a poem using montage effects, but of course I don't expect you to admit it.

    How's this for a compromise?

    a poem using montage effects

    Thst part I can agree with.

    EfyA
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 20:49:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***
    Original text restored, troll content removed.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 22:27:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).

    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now. >>
    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.

    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.

    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."

    That's correct.

    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."

    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot

    Exactly the same could be said about you.

    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.

    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.

    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is

    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.

    you haven't

    Yes, it was a poem using montage effects, but of course I don't expect you to admit it.


    How's this for a compromise?

    It's as much a poem using montage effects as it is a poem, or as you are a poet.






    Thst part I can agree with.

    EfyA
    [/quote]

    Good Donkey.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 23:46:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***
    (A poem using montage effects, original text restored, troll content removed.)


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri Jan 9 23:45:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:


    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>>
    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    The closest your poem comes to having a montage would be a series of lap dissolves showing the trees behind trees behind trees -- which is merely a bridge between the two scenes depicted, and which has *no* apples mentioned in it.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    This argument was settled long ago.

    Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    If your poem doesn't follow this montage structure

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Again, a "montage poem" and the use of "montage effects" are two very different things.

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    The trees described are *apple* trees.

    Dockery: In context that's obvious.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    I grew up in a rural, farming community. Behind any given apple orchard was a forest. The local forests did not contain apple trees, but a mix of pine, maple, oak, holly and spruce.

    And if there was another field behind the apple orchard, it either contained other fruit-bearing trees (cherry, pear), or plants (corn, lettuce, tomato, pumpkin, etc.).

    Okay, I was reporting what I personally saw at age 8-10.

    Apparently my grandfather ran his orchard differently or another explanation.

    At this rate I might not have the answers, as the older folks are gone now. >>>
    The idea of an apple orchard with apples trees behind it, followed by a second apple orchard, followed by more apple trees strikes me as... bizarre.

    Sure, and a lot of the stuff that you and NancyGene write about people is bizarre as well, but joy find it to be acceptable.

    Is the title of your poem

    Dockery: The title of my poem is "Apple Montage."

    I think the title of montage poem is well known by now.

    MMP: I asked you why you post-edited my question, Donkey. Are you afraid to address the fact that an apple and an apple tree are two very different things?

    Dockery: It's a poem in montage form.

    MMP: You had said that "It's a poem in montage form."

    That's correct.

    Dockery: I used montage effects in poetry form.

    "montage poem."

    My poem used montage effects, whether you agree or not.

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot

    Exactly the same could be said about you.

    Dockery: Look who's talking.

    MMP: I've repeatedly explained to you what a "montage" is.

    I've known for years, decades, what a montage is.

    I've also explained what a "montage poem" is

    I already know what a montage poem is, I wrote one.

    you haven't

    Yes, it was a poem using montage effects, but of course I don't expect you to admit it.


    How's this for a compromise?

    a poem using montage effects





    Thst part I can agree with.





    Good[/quote]

    Of course, it's a poem using montage effects.

    As you know.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat Jan 10 14:00:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.



    Refresh my memory?

    I'd like to see that.


    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":



    DONKEY: There's no entry on the use of montage in poetry, though.

    MMP: Let's ask Dunce's "trusted source":

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    Well, lookee lookee. Dunce's "trusted source" uses practically the same description that I've been putting forward.

    NOTE that it's a non-narrative poem juxtaposing images and ideas to create a "new, complex whole."

    Holiday Season fits this description to a T. Appleless Nontage does not.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."



    DONKEY: That's film, my montage is in poetic form.

    MMP: Not according to the definition given to you by both myself and Dunce's "trusted source."

    You poem has a narrative. Your poem does not juxtapose various images/ideas/sounds/etc. to create a larger, all-encompassing concept.

    One could also argue that yours is not even in poem form -- it's a pair of two short anecdotes from your past in fiction form.


    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    DONKEY: My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    MMP: As previously noted, it uses a transitional scene that *could* be considered a "montage sequence" in terms of a montage employed as a cinematic technique to show the passage of time. But even if it were, it would not make your poem an "montage poem." Nor would the use of a transitional effect be considered more important than either of the scenes is links -- and certainly not to such an extent that it would become the title. If that were the case, can you imagine how many old movies would have been named "Train Montage" or "Daily Calendar Page Montage"?


    DONKEY: Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    MMP: Interesting that a renowned filmmaker would have used montage effects in his films? And how does the use of montage in Citizen Kane illuminate your supposed use of montage in your poem?

    DONKEY: Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    MMP: Like it or not, your entire poem is formatted as two scenes with a transitional bridge.

    Again, here is the definition of a montage poem:

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    DONKEY: I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    MMP: I watched Siskel and Ebert as well. But I only had a superficial understanding of montage until I read "Film Sense" by Eisenstein. Did you read Eisenstein in the 1970s?

    DONKEY: I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    MMP: You have a vague, superficial idea of montage -- just as you have a vague, superficial idea of most words. As an autodidact (which I use charitably), you've interpolated your definition of most words from the context in which you were introduced to them. The problem with this educational approach is that most words have more than one meaning.

    Here is how Dunce's "trusted source" describes Eisenstein's theory of montage:

    "Sergei Eisenstein's theory of montage posits that meaning in film arises not from individual shots but from their collision and juxtaposition, creating a new, synthesized idea in the viewer's mind, much like a dialectical process. He identified five types (metric, rhythmic, tonal, overtonal, and intellectual) to achieve specific emotional or intellectual effects, with intellectual montage being the most significant, using conflicting images (like a bull slaughter and worker massacre) to provoke thought."

    What individual ideas are being juxtaposed in your poem? What new, larger concept is being created via said juxtaposition?


    DONKEY: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: There's no set structure for the use of montage effects, however, the effects in question would need to meet the definition of "montage."

    DONKEY: Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    MMP: How many times are you going to keep repeating yourself, Donkey?

    DONKEY: There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    In context that's obvious:

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."



    These trees are obviously apple trees, any intelligent reader will see that.

    MMP: There "several" apple trees with "other trees" behind them.

    "Other trees" implies that the trees were *not* apple trees.

    Any educated reader will tell you that.


    DONKEY: It wouldn't look right if I'd written "apple trees" every time I mentioned the trees.



    MMP: It wouldn't look any more or less "right" than the rest of your poem, Donkey.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and more
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, more apple trees."
    [/quote]

    But again, one must ask why a transitional device used to segue from scene one to scene two would be of such significance that it should become the title the poem's title.

    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.

    I see it as being concerned with various generations of a family stealthily indulging in minor vices.

    Either way, the linking device is wholly irrelevant.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat Jan 10 18:41:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    And here I thought you were going to ask if you could use my de-cluttered version for your next Twitter poem.

    Refresh my memory?

    I'd like to see that.



    Where is it, I'll ask again?


    No, I wrote about the clutter in the thread, not the poem.

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    Here ^^^

    This is still obvious ^^^

    Define "poetry montage."



    DONKEY: The term is very easy to understand.

    I think you actually know that, Harry.

    MMP: Since your poem does not correspond with my definition of "poetry montage," or with that of Dunce's "trusted source," or with any other definition that I've ever come across, I'm asking you to tell me what your definition is.




    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry.

    Here ^^^

    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":



    DONKEY: Except there's not an entry about montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: Earth to Drunky: You're the one who posted that, Donkey (on Tue Dec 30 2025 7:31 am). If you didn't think it applied, why did you post it?


    Dockery: There's no entry on the use of montage in poetry, though.

    MMP: Let's ask Dunce's "trusted source":

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    Well, lookee lookee. Dunce's "trusted source" uses practically the same description that I've been putting forward.

    NOTE that it's a non-narrative poem juxtaposing images and ideas to create a "new, complex whole."

    Holiday Season fits this description to a T.



    DONKEY: Again, in your biased opinion.

    Apple Montage uses montage effects in several levels.

    It's not a surprise you can't accept that, Harry.

    MMP: You keep stamping your foot and repeating that Donkey, but you still haven't pointed out *where* these supposed montage effects are -- or on what levels they operate.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."



    DONKEY: My poem uses montage effects, again, it's a poem, not s film.

    MMP: Where does it use them, Donkey?

    Your repeatedly insisting that they exist means nothing. SHOW ME.


    Dockery: That's film, my montage is in poetic form.

    MMP: Not according to the definition given to you by both myself and Dunce's "trusted source."

    You poem has a narrative. Your poem does not juxtapose various images/ideas/sounds/etc. to create a larger, all-encompassing concept.

    One could also argue that yours is not even in poem form -- it's a pair of two short anecdotes from your past in fiction form.


    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    Dockery: My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    MMP: As previously noted, it uses a transitional scene that *could* be considered a "montage sequence" in terms of a montage employed as a cinematic technique to show the passage of time. But even if it were, it would not make your poem an "montage poem." Nor would the use of a transitional effect be considered more important than either of the scenes is links -- and certainly not to such an extent that it would become the title. If that were the case, can you imagine how many old movies would have been named "Train Montage" or "Daily Calendar Page Montage"?


    Dockery: Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    MMP: Interesting that a renowned filmmaker would have used montage effects in his films? And how does the use of montage in Citizen Kane illuminate your supposed use of montage in your poem?

    Dockery: Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    MMP: Like it or not, your entire poem is formatted as two scenes with a transitional bridge.

    Again, here is the definition of a montage poem:

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    Dockery: I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    MMP: I watched Siskel and Ebert as well. But I only had a superficial understanding of montage until I read "Film Sense" by Eisenstein. Did you read Eisenstein in the 1970s?

    Dockery: I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    MMP: You have a vague, superficial idea of montage -- just as you have a vague, superficial idea of most words. As an autodidact (which I use charitably), you've interpolated your definition of most words from the context in which you were introduced to them. The problem with this educational approach is that most words have more than one meaning.

    Here is how George Dance's "trusted source" describes Eisenstein's theory of montage:

    "Sergei Eisenstein's theory of montage posits that meaning in film arises not from individual shots but from their collision and juxtaposition, creating a new, synthesized idea in the viewer's mind, much like a dialectical process. He identified five types (metric, rhythmic, tonal, overtonal, and intellectual) to achieve specific emotional or intellectual effects, with intellectual montage being the most significant, using conflicting images (like a bull slaughter and worker massacre) to provoke thought."

    What individual ideas are being juxtaposed in your poem? What new, larger concept is being created via said juxtaposition?



    DONKEY: The poem is a montage of childhood holiday memories, as I've stated.

    MMP: Two memories separated by a transitional bridge is NOT a montage, Donkey. A montage is NON-narrative. Your memories are in narrative form. They are scenes, not images.

    Words matter. Get an education already.


    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: There's no set structure for the use of montage effects, however, the effects in question would need to meet the definition of "montage."

    Dockery: Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.



    DONKEY: As we've agreed ^^^

    MMP: Why are you telling yourself that you'd agreed with yourself, Drunky?


    MMP: How many times are you going to keep repeating yourself, Donkey?

    Dockery:: There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    In context that's obvious:



    Here ^^^


    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    These trees are obviously apple trees, any intelligent reader will see that. >>
    MMP: There "several" apple trees with "other trees" behind them.

    "Other trees" implies that the trees were *not* apple trees.



    DONKEY: Other trees simply means more of the same

    Apple trees.

    The meaning should be very clear to the average reader.

    MMP: Wrong, Donkey.

    "There were several of those trees and other trees behind them."

    "Those trees" would refer to apple trees; "other trees" would mean different trees.

    It they "other trees" were intended to be apple trees, you should have written "and more of the same behind them."

    Words matter.

    Go back to the fourth grade and learn basic English.


    Dockery: It wouldn't look right if I'd written "apple trees" every time I mentioned the trees.

    MMP: It wouldn't look any more or less "right"



    DONKEY: In your biased opinion, you mean.

    MMP: There's nothing biased about my opinion, Donkey.

    But let's face it -- there's nothing poetic about your supposed poem. It's two chopped prose anecdotes from your childhood.

    There's no meter to adhere to... no rhymes to force the content... no metaphor... nothing.

    If you specify that they're apple trees (as per my edit below), your writing doesn't suffer in any way, shape, or form. It simply becomes more intelligible.


    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and more
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, more apple trees."



    But again, one must ask why a transitional device used to segue from scene one to scene two would be of such significance that it should become the title the poem's title.




    DONKEY: The entire poem uses montage effects.

    You don't have to agree but that remains just your opinion, Harry.

    MMP: POINT THEM OUT, DONKEY.

    Stop wasting both our time by insisting that they're there when their not.

    If they exist, point them out.


    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.




    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.

    MMP: It is written as two scenes with a transitional bridge. Please explain how it is in montage form.


    I see it as being concerned with various generations of a family stealthily indulging in minor vices.




    DONKEY: It was during a holiday, such things often happen


    It's not a big deal, as you probably know if you're being honest.

    MMP: No one is accusing you or your family of anything, paranoid Donkey.

    I'm merely pointing out the thematic link between the two sections of your poem: You Jenny "sneaking around" the barn, smoking cigarettes; and Dad and Uncle Clarence sneaking swigs of booze while brewing apple cider.

    DONKEY: Either way, that's part of the montage effect of the poem.

    MMP: It's a *thematic link,* not a montage.

    Words matter.

    Take some free online basic English courses.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat Jan 10 19:21:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="HarryLime"][quote="Will Dockery"]mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    [quote]Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:




    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.




    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.


    MMP: It just occurred to me that you might be conflating (or confusing) "montage" with "homage."

    It would be correct to say that your poem was written as an homage to your childhood memories.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sat Jan 10 19:26:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="HarryLime"][quote="HarryLime"][quote="Will Dockery"]mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:




    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.



    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.


    MMP: It just occurred to me that you might be conflating (or confusing) "montage" with "homage."

    It would be correct to say that your poem was written as an homage to your childhood memories.



    Will Donkey could also be writing "fromage."


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 11:33:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    The poem is an almost perfect poetry montage as it is..

    The term is very easy to understand.

    I think you actually know that, Harry.

    See my poem "Apple Montage" for an example of ause of montage in poetry. >>
    Wikipedia is a good start on defining "montage":

    Dockery: Except there's not an entry about montage effects in poetry.

    There's no entry on the use of montage in poetry, though.

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    Apple Montage uses montage effects in several levels.

    It's not a surprise you can't accept that, Harry.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montage_(filmmaking)

    Here is Wikipedia's definition (as per your link):

    "A montage (/m'n-et'-E'/ mon-TAHZH) is a film editing technique in which a series of short shots are sequenced to condense space, time, and information. Montages enable filmmakers to communicate a large amount of information to an audience over a shorter span of time by juxtaposing different shots, compressing time through editing, or intertwining multiple storylines of a narrative.

    "The term has varied meanings depending on the filmmaking tradition. In French, the word montage applied to cinema simply denotes editing. In Soviet montage theory, as originally introduced outside the USSR by Sergei Eisenstein,[1] it was used to create symbolism.[2] Later, the term "montage sequence", used primarily by British and American studios, became the common technique to suggest the passage of time.[3]

    "From the 1930s to the 1950s, montage sequences often combined numerous short shots with special optical effects (fades/dissolves, split screens, double and triple exposures), dance, and music."

    Dockery: My poem uses montage effects, again, it's a poem, not s film.

    That's film, my montage is in poetic form.

    MMP: Not according to the definition given to you by both myself and Dunce's "trusted source."

    You poem has a narrative. Your poem does not juxtapose various images/ideas/sounds/etc. to create a larger, all-encompassing concept.

    One could also argue that yours is not even in poem form -- it's a pair of two short anecdotes from your past in fiction form.

    As previously pointed out, my poem uses montage effects in poetry form.

    Dockery: My poem definitely used montage, this is an argument that is apparently ongoing.

    MMP: As previously noted, it uses a transitional scene that *could* be considered a "montage sequence" in terms of a montage employed as a cinematic technique to show the passage of time. But even if it were, it would not make your poem an "montage poem." Nor would the use of a transitional effect be considered more important than either of the scenes is links -- and certainly not to such an extent that it would become the title. If that were the case, can you imagine how many old movies would have been named "Train Montage" or "Daily Calendar Page Montage"?

    Dockery: Interesting that I was watching a television program about Orson Welles just last night, where montage was mentioned.

    MMP: Interesting that a renowned filmmaker would have used montage effects in his films? And how does the use of montage in Citizen Kane illuminate your supposed use of montage in your poem?

    Dockery: Like it or not, my poem does use montage.

    The entire poem is montage, using montage effects.

    MMP: Like it or not, your entire poem is formatted as two scenes with a transitional bridge.

    Again, here is the definition of a montage poem:

    "A montage poem layers disparate images, fragments, sounds, and ideas from various sources (like newspaper clippings, songs, slogans) to create a new, complex whole, reflecting fragmented modern life, much like film editing. It juxtaposes these elements without traditional narrative, inviting the reader to find meaning in the connections, contradictions, and rhythms between them, as seen in works like Langston Hughes' Montage of a Dream Deferred."

    Dockery: I've known about montage since the 1970s.

    MMP: I watched Siskel and Ebert as well. But I only had a superficial understanding of montage until I read "Film Sense" by Eisenstein. Did you read Eisenstein in the 1970s?

    Dockery: I know exactly what a montage is, and knew from the start.

    MMP: You have a vague, superficial idea of montage -- just as you have a vague, superficial idea of most words. As an autodidact (which I use charitably), you've interpolated your definition of most words from the context in which you were introduced to them. The problem with this educational approach is that most words have more than one meaning.

    Here is how George Dance's "trusted source" describes Eisenstein's theory of montage:

    "Sergei Eisenstein's theory of montage posits that meaning in film arises not from individual shots but from their collision and juxtaposition, creating a new, synthesized idea in the viewer's mind, much like a dialectical process. He identified five types (metric, rhythmic, tonal, overtonal, and intellectual) to achieve specific emotional or intellectual effects, with intellectual montage being the most significant, using conflicting images (like a bull slaughter and worker massacre) to provoke thought."

    What individual ideas are being juxtaposed in your poem? What new, larger concept is being created via said juxtaposition?

    Dockery: The poem is a montage of childhood holiday memories, as I've stated.

    MMP: Two memories separated by a transitional bridge

    Told with montage effects, yes.

    Dockery: Again, there's no set structure for the use of montage effects in poetry.

    MMP: There's no set structure for the use of montage effects

    Not really, there's no set "montage form" in poetry.

    As we've agreed ^^^

    There are thousands of apples in the trees, in the montage.

    In context that's obvious:

    Here ^^^

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees."

    These trees are obviously apple trees, any intelligent reader will see that.

    MMP: There "several" apple trees with "other trees" behind them.

    "Other trees" implies that the trees were *not* apple trees.

    Again, more apple trees.

    Other trees simply means more of the same

    Apple trees.

    The meaning should be very clear to the average reader.

    MMP: Wrong

    I don't agree.

    "There were several of those trees and other trees behind them."

    "Those trees" would refer to apple trees; "other trees" would mean different trees.

    It they "other trees" were intended to be apple trees, you should have written "and more of the same behind them."

    The reader can understand that the trees are apple trees.

    It wouldn't look right if I'd written "apple trees" every time I mentioned the trees.

    MMP: It wouldn't look any more or less "right"

    I think it would.

    In your biased opinion, you mean.

    MMP: There's nothing biased about my opinion, Donkey.

    anecdotes from your childhood.

    Told in montage style in the poem.

    There's no

    Look up "modern poetry."

    If you specify that they're apple trees (as per my edit below), your writing doesn't suffer in any way, shape, or form. It simply becomes more intelligible.

    Thanks, that looks good.

    "To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and more
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, more apple trees."

    But again, one must ask why a transitional device used to segue from scene one to scene two would be of such significance that it should become the title the poem's title.

    There's montage effects all through the poem.

    Dockery: The entire poem uses montage effects.

    You don't have to agree but that remains just your opinion, Harry.

    MMP: POINT THEM OUT

    I have, numerous times.

    HTH and HAND.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 10:58:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="NancyGene"][quote="HarryLime"][quote="HarryLime"]
    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:




    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.



    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.


    MMP: It just occurred to me that you might be conflating (or confusing) "montage" with "homage."

    It would be correct to say that your poem was written as an homage to your childhood memories.


    Will Donkey could also be writing "fromage."



    We think that what Will Donkey wrote was more of an inept panorama than a montage. However, apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997, so what Will Donkey was writing about was probably dogwood. Mildred was strangely attracted to those trees.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 11:10:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***

    Original text restored for Nancy Gene, who apparently didn't read the poem before commenting.

    HTH and HAND.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 11:16:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:


    [/quote]
    However, apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997[/quote]

    The poem doesn't take place in Georgia:

    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ***
    (Original text restored, troll content removed.)


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 11:28:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="NancyGene"][quote="NancyGene"][quote="HarryLime"]
    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:




    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.



    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.


    MMP: It just occurred to me that you might be conflating (or confusing) "montage" with "homage."

    It would be correct to say that your poem was written as an homage to your childhood memories.


    Will Donkey could also be writing "fromage."


    We think that what Will Donkey wrote was more of an inept panorama than a montage. However, apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997, so what Will Donkey was writing about was probably dogwood. Mildred was strangely attracted to those trees.



    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of Tennessee, instead of Georgia. However, there are no apple trees in Tennessee, only mountain tops, coonskin caps, and bears. Mildred was also attracted to bears.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 16:35:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in news:TlOdnXJ7BPGJTf70nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com:

    [quote="NancyGene"][quote="NancyGene"][quote="HarryLime"]
    HarryLime wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:




    In your previous comments, you said that the poem was meant to be
    a nostalgic look at some of your childhood memories.



    DONKEY: Which it obviously is, written as a montage in poetry form.


    MMP: It just occurred to me that you might be conflating (or
    confusing) "montage" with "homage."

    It would be correct to say that your poem was written as an homage
    to your childhood memories.


    Will Donkey could also be writing "fromage."


    We think that what Will Donkey wrote was more of an inept panorama
    than a montage. However, apple trees were not discovered in Georgia
    until 1997, so what Will Donkey was writing about was probably
    dogwood. Mildred was strangely attracted to those trees.

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of
    Tennessee, instead of Georgia. However, there are no apple trees in Tennessee, only mountain tops, coonskin caps, and bears. Mildred was
    also attracted to bears.

    TN has it's share of inbred shitkickers so there is a link to Columbus.
    --
    "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -
    Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 12:03:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="Will Dockery"]nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:


    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of Tennessee, instead of Georgia




    There is no need for dentists in the "backwoods" of Tennessee, Georgia or Alabama.


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700343836#700343836




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 12:46:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="NancyGene"]
    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:


    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of Tennessee, instead of Georgia



    There is no need for dentists in the "backwoods" of Tennessee, Georgia or Alabama.



    There is no need for soap in Tennessee, Georgia or Alabama either. A specialty at their Waffle Houses is Road Apple Pie.


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700345226#700345226




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 18:42:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in news:xgidnQ0TMsN2f_70nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com:

    [quote="NancyGene"]
    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:


    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of
    Tennessee, instead of Georgia



    There is no need for dentists in the "backwoods" of Tennessee,
    Georgia or Alabama.



    There is no need for soap in Tennessee, Georgia or Alabama either. A specialty at their Waffle Houses is Road Apple Pie.


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700345226#700345226

    Doesn't look like deodorant made much progress either.

    That picture? Jesus fuck.
    --
    "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -
    Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 16:06:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="Will Dockery"]nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in
    news:xgidnQ0TMsN2f_70nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:

    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of
    Tennessee, instead of Georgia



    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700351212#700351212




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cujo DeSockpuppet@cujo@petitmorte.net to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 21:40:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in news:QYqcnX-DDOA5j_n0nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com:

    [quote="Will Dockery"]nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in
    news:xgidnQ0TMsN2f_70nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:

    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of
    Tennessee, instead of Georgia



    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700351212#700351212

    Look at that fucking blimp.
    --
    "The fact that it doesn't apply to the poem is of little consequence to
    you, because your poems don't have a literary basis, because you're functionally illiterate and haven't got a clue as to what a poem is." -
    Little Willie Douchebag gets another asskicking from Pendragon
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun Jan 11 21:28:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    [quote="NancyGene"]
    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) wrote in news:xgidnQ0TMsN2f_70nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@giganews.com:

    Will Dockery wrote:
    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:

    apple trees were not discovered in Georgia until 1997

    We correct ourselves--the poem takes place in the "backwoods" of
    Tennessee, instead of Georgia







    Thar she blows!


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 01:13:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    ----------------------------------------
    (Original text restored, troll content removed.)


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700369781#700369781




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 07:56:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    Apple Montage

    Sneaking around
    with Cousin Jenny,
    smoking menthol
    beyond the sheds.

    Late summer vacation 1973
    in the backwoods of Tennessee.

    To the right
    behind the barn
    were apple trees.

    There were several
    of those trees
    and other trees
    behind them
    beyond a field
    and behind them, other trees.

    Later, I stood near
    as a crowd
    watched Pops and my Uncle
    cooking apple butter;
    stirring the brown gunk,
    boiling in a huge black kettle.

    I saw my father
    secretly pass
    a wine bottle
    to my Uncle Clarence.

    I went from
    breathing cold mist
    out back behind the barn,
    to breathing
    the hot misty steam.

    The air smelled of apple fumes
    and strong booze.

    -Will Dockery

    --------------------------------------------

    Here is the "Apple Montage" poem, for scrutiny and comment.

    :)



    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 08:34:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.



    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    View the attachments for this post at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=700378737#700378737




    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 09:53:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?



    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 09:54:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    Old Donkey relatives, judging by the ears.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 10:12:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?



    Old Donkey relatives, judging by the ears.



    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo? A rip in the space time continuum? Is the Donkey family actually from an alien planet? Uranustits?


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 12:24:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?



    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.

    EfyA


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 15:23:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?


    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.




    The photo is a fake. There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." - Will Donkey


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 15:54:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?


    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.



    The photo is a fake. There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." - Will Donkey



    Another Donkey lie debunked!


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From will.dockery@will.dockery@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (Will-Dockery) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 16:42:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?





    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo? [/quote]

    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.
    [/quote]

    The photo is a fake. There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." [/quote]

    Another lie debunked![/quote]

    Another tag team tizzy troll post from you and NancyGene noted, Harry.

    EfyA

    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From nancygene.andjayme@nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 17:55:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?


    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.



    The photo is a fake. There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." - Will Donkey


    Another Donkey lie debunked!



    Will Donkey doesn't stand behind his statements (i.e., lies). He wants us to believe that he has photos that are over 100 years old (1926) yet doesn't have any of Ahmos Zu-Bolton or anyone in 1976 because cameras were rare then.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 23:37:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    nancygene.andjayme@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (NancyGene) posted:
    HarryLime wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    NancyGene wrote:
    Will Dockery wrote:
    NancyGene wrote:

    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.

    Perhaps you need an eye exam?

    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?

    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?

    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.

    The photo is a fake.

    No, the photograph is real.

    There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." - Will Donkey

    Obviously not as common as cameras are in 2026.

    doesn't stand behind his statements

    Not true, of course.

    He wants us to believe that he has photos that are over 100 years old (1926) yet doesn't have any of Ahmos Zu-Bolton or anyone in 1976 because cameras were rare then.

    Are you really that confused, NancyGene?

    I own some old family photos but I obviously didn't actually take the 100 year old photographs myself.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 19:12:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    HarryLime wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:

    Will-Dockery wrote:

    NancyGene wrote:
    The grouping of three corpses is inspiring.


    Perhaps you need an eye exam?


    The Polka Dot Tie Gang?




    What is that in the upper right corner of the photo?


    The photograph is nearly 100 years old, so take a guess.



    The photo is a fake. There were no cameras in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia or Florida until after the 1970s.

    "Again, *****, cameras and photographs were not so common in 1976 as they are now, so I don't have a huge number of photos from those days." - Will Donkey


    Another Donkey lie debunked!


    Will Donkey doesn't stand behind his statements (i.e., lies). He wants us to believe that he has photos that are over 100 years old (1926) yet doesn't have any of Ahmos Zu-Bolton or anyone in 1976 because cameras were rare then.



    The Donkey can't stand behind his statements because they're total bullshit.

    I was 12 in 1976 and owned (and regularly used) four cameras. A vintage Ansco Shur Flash which I picked up for a quarter (or some ridiculously small amount) at a church yard sale, an Argus Argoflex Seventy-Five which had belonged to my parents, a Kodak Instamatic and a Polaroid Square Shooter 2 both of which I got for a birthday/Xmas present.

    I had a 5th camera, a 1960s Polaroid Swinger that I picked up at a yard sale, but never used.

    My father had a 1940s Polaroid Land Camera for taking indoor shots, and a 1960s Kodak Instamatic pocket camera that had been my mother's. We took the Instamatic with us on vacations from the late 60s through the 1970s. My mother carried it in her purse, and after her death, my father carried it in one of his pockets. It wouldn't fit in the tight pocket of a pair of jeans, but it was a good fit for a flannel shirt or a jacket pocket. We also had an antique Polaroid that had belonged to my great grand parents, but that one wasn't used.

    That's a total of 8 cameras in my household circa 1976; 6 of which were regularly used.

    And we were a poor family from a rural area.

    Every family I knew had at least one camera in their house.

    And, since the Donkey has posted photos from his childhood, and nearly 100-year-old photos of his relatives, it's safe to assume that the Donkeys owned at least one camera as well.

    I can understand why the Donkey never took a photo of Zu Bolton. High school kids rarely (if ever) took their cameras to school -- taking photos wasn't allowed in class, and taking snapshots of your friends in the hall wasn't considered "cool."

    What I can't understand, is why the school didn't take any photos of Zu Bolton for their yearbook. If he was a member of the faculty, he should have had at least one photo in the yearbook. If he was something of a local celebrity, they would have been proud to include photos of him interacting with the students.

    And it's not like the school didn't have access to a camera -- the other faculty members, and the entire student body all have photos.

    I mean, to look at the yearbooks one would think that Zu Bolton was never even there.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Mon Jan 12 21:36:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    We've been through this more than once, Harry.

    Just because you and others had a camera in 1976 doesn't make them as common as they are in 2026.







    They were far more common in 1976 than they are today. Cellphone cameras have made film obsolete.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Will Dockery@user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 13 05:59:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


    mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:
    Will Dockery wrote:

    We've been through this more than once, Harry.

    Just because you and others had a camera in 1976 doesn't make them as common as they are in 2026.

    They were far more common in 1976 than they are today. Cellphone cameras have made film obsolete.


    Relatively, yes.
    --
    Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
    https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From mpsilvertone@mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) to alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue Jan 13 09:41:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments

    Will Dockery wrote:
    We've been through this more than once, Harry.

    Just because you and others had a camera in 1976 doesn't make them as common as they are in 2026.




    Learn to read:

    I didn't have a camera in 1976, Donkey, I had FIVE cameras.

    And I was a 12-year-old at the time.

    And I lived out in the middle of nowhere in farm country.

    My father had an additional THREE cameras (bringing our household to a total of EIGHT cameras).

    In 1977, I got a Bell & Howell slide projector and started getting my photos printed as slides which I could then project on the wall for my family.

    My Aunt and Grandmother, who lived next door, had at least TWO cameras that I remember.

    If you count them as extended family members, we had a total of TEN cameras in 1976.

    I bought two of my cameras at yard sales for pocket change. A year or two later, I bought THREE MORE cameras at yard sales for pocket change.

    They weren't even remotely rare.

    Even your family owned, or had access to, one.

    *****

    The real question remains why your school neglected to photograph Zu-Bolton for their yearbook. They had a camera, since the yearbook if full of photos.

    AFASIC there are only two possible explanations for this omission:

    1 ) He never set foot in your school, and

    2 ) The school was run by a pack of racists who didn't want to admit that they had a black man on their staff.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659653060#659653060
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2