From Newsgroup: alt.arts.poetry.comments


Cujo DeSockpuppet <cujo@petitmorte.net> posted:

Will Dockery <user3274@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote in

news:1766543749-3274@newsgrouper.org:

mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

Will Dockery wrote:

mpsilvertone@yahoo-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (HarryLime) posted:

George J. Dance wrote:

from "HarryLiar lies about PPB and April magazine"
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=669508725&start
=28

Had you followed the Sunday Sampler's guidelines in the
first place, Jim would never have kicked you out. You
could still be participating in the magazine today, and
(with the help of my editing) you might even have
gotten a poem or two in each of our annual anthologies.

So I'm banned from your publication, that's old news.

I'd say you dodged a bullet, Will. HarryLiar did not
"ban" me until later; and look what he did to me.

Without my consent, he took at least 7 of my poems from
the Sunday Sampler, and published them in his first
(annual) AYoS in 2021. Since he was claiming "exclusive
rights", that meant I couldn't publish them even on
PPB, my own blog. Even though I had not submitted those
poems to him, or agreed to let him use them, I let them
get away with it for two reasons: (1) after declaring
"war" on me in 2017, he suddenly declared "peace" with
me in 2020, and I didn't want to disrupt that peace;
(2) he had sworn up and down, back when he was
libelling me and PPB, that annuals like his would go
out of print (meaning he wouldn't print any more
copies) of the 2021 AYoS as soon as the next annual
came out -- which meant I'd have to wait only a year to
publish my own poetry again

So I let him get away with it. In fact, I even posted a
few poems in his AYoS Facebook group (the Official AAPC
group, or whatever he's calling it) in 2021. Of course
he took those poems of mine as well, and published them
in the 2021 AYoS.

It was only after the 2021 annual came out that I
learned he had deceived me on both above counts. First,
he refused to take the 2020 AYoS out of print, on the
grounds that "some contributors" (presumably Jim and
NastyGoon) didn't want him two. Second, after I kept
pressing him to take them out of print, he flip-flopped
and declared "war" on me again. So there I was, with
nothing to show for the experience but the loss of 7-10
of my own poems.

In the spring of 2023, after I'd pestered him long
enough, HarryLiar finally announced that he'd taken the
2020 annual out of print. Amazon announced it was out
or print around June of that year, but continued to
sell copies. (They seem to print more than one copy of
each book at a time, saving the unsold copies so that
don't have to set up the press to print a new copy
every time there's a new order). At which point I
bought the six remaining copies, and the 2020 AYoS was
finally out of print. Later that year, I did the same
for the 2021 AYoS. I thought that, with both annuals
containing my poetry now out of print,
and no copies on sale, that would be the end of it.

But no: HarryLiar has flip-flopped on that as well.
He's now declared that the AYoS annuals are "books"
rather than journals, which means he can keep them in
print as long as he wants -- forever, if he feels like
it. That includes the 2020 and 2021 out-of-print
annuals, which (because he never removed them from his
print site) he can put back into publication with just
one click.

So I've said the hell with him and his "exclusive
rights", and started publishing the poems he'd pilfered
onto PPB. Last year I posted one of those, "Post
Meridiem", revised and corrected from the draft he'd
originally stolen. That may leave me open to being
sued, except for two things: (1) he doesn't have a
case, since of course he forgot what he'd learned about
contracts; and (2) he can't use the courts without
revealing his true identity. So I guess I'm
safe.

But I'm not his only victim. You've seen the "AYoS
WEBzine" clickbait he keeps posting here every month,
right? Not all of those poems are submitted to it, any
more than my poems were submitted. Instead, he simply
takes and uses all the poems people post to his
Facebook page, without asking, for his "WEBzine." And
then uses some of those poems *again* in his AYoS
annuals. He says he can get away with that because the
"Guidelines" he wrote for his Facebook group say he
can.

So far he has been getting away with that, since
virtually all of the people who post poems to Facebook
are not published poets, and are probably thrilled to
see their work in print. But hopefully it's only a
matter of time until some of them notice that he's
stealing: he's taking and publishing their poems
without asking permission, and of course (despite his
claim to have worked in the publishing industry)
without bothering to get them to sign
release forms.

Can you imagine HarryLiar having exclusive rights to
some of your poems? That you wouldn't be able to use
those poems of yours on your own blog? That the only
versions of your poems in print were the ones that he
had "edited"? Then you should feel relieved that he
"banned" you instead.

As I said, you dodged a bullet. Or, to use a more
appropriate metaphor, you dodged a pile of monkeyshit
that he threw at you. Once that sh*t of his hits you,
like it did me, you'd probably never be able to get his
stench off again.

Why do you lie so much, Dunce?

You granted permission for all of your poems that
appeared.

I even sent you pageproofs so could accept or reject my
corrections/make additional corrections.

You not only gave your permission, you lying sack of
sh*t, but you gave it in writing.

Attached are copies of my email to you, and your reply.

GJD: : Harry, Liar, according to your email that you
attached, you did not ask for permission: you simply
told me you had "selected" some of my poems for your
AYoS, and needed me to correct your proofs so you could
meet your publishing deadline.

According to mine, I did not give you permission in
writing (since you hadn't bothered to ask for it), but
merely made the corrections you told me you needed.

MMP: Dance, Dance, Dance... you don't send corrections
if you don't want your poems included. You say "You
don't have my permission to use them."

GJD: Liar, Liar, Liar ... first you claimed that I had
"submitted" the poems of mine you used in /Another Year
of Stealing/. That was a lie. When challenged, you
claimed that I had given you "permission in writing."
That was also a lie. When challenged on that, you
coughed up some "emails" which showed that both were
lies; that in fact you had selected the poems yourself
without asking me. You can froth and tizzy all you
want, but that is not going to make those facts go
away.

MMP as HARRYLIAR :
Jim, Robert, and Corey, otoh, have told you that you do
NOT have permission to keep their poems on your
blaaargh (or in your "April" blaaarghzine, which is the
same thing. Take them down now, thief!

GJD: And when caught in three lies -- that I'd
submitted poems to your schmatte, that I'd given you
permission to use my poems in your schmatte, and that
you had proof of that in writing -- you try to deflect
attention with yet more lies. f**k off, HarryLiar.

Unlikely, since Harry always wants the last word.

I'm just setting the record straight.

Now, be honest... if someone falsely accused you of
stealing, wouldn't you want to have the get the last
word in?

I don't have time to read this but will later tonight
when I return to the office, Harry.

But I will say I think your use of the term plagiarism
is wrong, just as the meaning of the word was clarified
for me when Michael Cook used my "Karma Bombs" poem
without my knowledge or permission twenty years ago.

I can explain at length later but you probably already
understand by now.

HTH and HAND.

From a purely legal standpoint, it would be either
'theft' or "copyright infringement."

Personally, I think that "literary theft" sounds much
worse than "plagiarism," but you're correct. Dance
stole the poetry of at least 4 of the contributors to
his blaaargh.

Now please answer my question, which I'll repeat for
your convenience:

Dance stole poetry from me, Jim, Robert, and Corey.
He's currently boasting that he still has Jim, Robert,
and Corey's poems in one of his publications.

I called Dance a thief. Quite justifiably, I might
add.

Dance (Mr. Tit for Tat), then called me a thief, and
told a lie to back it up (that he never gave me
permission to use his work).

I posted two of the emails that were exchanged between
Dunce and I, which clearly show that I had Dunce's
permission to use his poems.

I'm just setting the record straight.

Now, be honest... if someone falsely accused you of
stealing, wouldn't you want to have the get the last
word in?

Yes, that's true, if I was accused of stealing I'd
defend myself.

And of course, you remember from the Karma Bombs
incident that if I'm stolen from I'll definitely speak
up

I heard you the first time

Good, I'm glad you're keeping up.

MMP: You do realize that you aren't part of this
conversation, don't you

I'm here.

Therefore, I'm in it.

It's just like

In your case just like an obsessive troll.

Like I said, in your case just like an obsessive troll

I snipped nothing and lied about nothing

You lied about posting that video of you singing the Bryan Ferry song over eleven years ago.

If you're scared, say you're scared.

In your case just like an obsessive troll.

Like I said, in your case just like an obsessive troll

you promised to

You promised to post a video of you singing over eleven years ago
since you mention lying, CujoDeSockpuppet.

You're a liar

You lied about making a video of you singing a Bryan Ferry cover, CujoDeSockpuppet.

Over eleven years later and you're still lying.

HTH and HAND.
--
Poetry and songs of Will Dockery:
https://www.reverbnation.com/willdockery
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