• Re: Recommendations for good ISP with British support staff

    From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 16:35:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 18:46, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount each year if
    their website is to be believed. The monthly amount goes up by -u4 each >>>> year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just before the >>> 18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and (to coin a recent >>> well used phrase by a certain president ) Make a Deal. My fee simply
    yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media. Since IrCOve >> been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    It's only 5-10 mins every 18 to 24 months though ! I don't like playing their games either, but life is to short to be dogmatic about these things


    ItrCOs not just playing the game though, itrCOs having to deal with a company that you *know* will try and rip you off every 18 months or so. I have no interest it supporting a company with such business practices.

    VM is the worst because you can't actually ring up and ask how much to
    commit for a new contract. You have to cancel - not just threaten to
    cancel, actually cancel. Then wait for a callback to offer you a deal. If
    the callback never came (or you couldn't take the call) the cancel would go through unless you called a second time to un-cancel.

    In my case the only alternative was 11Mbps ADSL (no FTTC) so they had me
    over a barrel, and they knew it.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 16:02:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 18:46, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount each year if
    their website is to be believed. The monthly amount goes up by -u4 each >>>>>> year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just before the >>>>> 18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and (to coin a recent >>>>> well used phrase by a certain president ) Make a Deal. My fee simply >>>>> yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media. Since IrCOve >>>> been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    It's only 5-10 mins every 18 to 24 months though ! I don't like playing >>> their games either, but life is to short to be dogmatic about these things >>>

    ItrCOs not just playing the game though, itrCOs having to deal with a company
    that you *know* will try and rip you off every 18 months or so. I have no >> interest it supporting a company with such business practices.

    VM is the worst because you can't actually ring up and ask how much to
    commit for a new contract. You have to cancel - not just threaten to
    cancel, actually cancel. Then wait for a callback to offer you a deal. If the callback never came (or you couldn't take the call) the cancel would go through unless you called a second time to un-cancel.

    In my case the only alternative was 11Mbps ADSL (no FTTC) so they had me
    over a barrel, and they knew it.

    Theo


    And they are up to their old tricks again. IrCOve just looked up their
    current offerings. 24 month contract with an 11 percent price rise after 6 months. And then another similar rise at 18 months.

    IrCOve had AAISP at another location for 15 years. It has never gone up in price. It started off as reassuringly expensive and is now looking fairly standard.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 18:05:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Sun 10/08/2025 09:59, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Sun 10/08/2025 07:18, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Sat 09/08/2025 18:46, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount each year if
    their website is to be believed. The monthly amount goes up by -u4 each >>>>>>> year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just before the >>>>>> 18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and (to coin a recent >>>>>> well used phrase by a certain president ) Make a Deal. My fee simply >>>>>> yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media. Since IrCOve
    been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    VM is a pain. I was a beta tester on dial up with what was then NTL
    around Y2K and found the system quite good - and I'm still with them.

    BUT the thing most people overlook is reliability. In now just about 25 >>>> years with them I have only had I think four outages. One Boxing Day
    (when we had TV with them) the picture froze all day, a car drove into >>>> the street cab at the top of our road (c 120m) and we were off broadband >>>> for four days but we did get compensation, and on one occasion when my >>>> original NTL hub decided to go slow they sent a chap around two days
    later and he fitted me a (Netgear) Hub2 which was brilliant. (They have >>>> since declared the ub2 obsolete about three months ago and sent me a
    Hub4 - which has not impressed me so far.)

    If I changed supplier (and since the beginning of the pandemic we have >>>> been City Fibred with a choice of about 18 different providers including >>>> IDNet) the only thing that would put me off them is that they are owned >>>> by Curry's, a company that I detest.


    CityFibre is not owned by Currys if that is what you mean.
    I had VM for about as long as you did. They offered much faster speeds than >>> any OpenReach offering round here (who have still not installed fibre). But >>> in the last decade or so VM went mad with pricing. Not only annual hikes, >>> they occasionally went for two increases in a year.


    Sorry, my error. Since the comment to which I was responding was about
    IDNet I presumed readers would link my comment to IDNet - who are owned
    by Curry's.



    The ISP IDNet is independent and has been around almost as long as the consumer Internet.


    There is confusion around - and I fell into the trap!

    IDNet is independent, accepted.

    ID Mobile - which looks very similar - is a wholly owned subsidiary of
    Currys - who I still detest!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 18:24:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    And they are up to their old tricks again. IrCOve just looked up their current offerings. 24 month contract with an 11 percent price rise after 6 months. And then another similar rise at 18 months.

    Another trick is that they changed their website based on whether you were
    on a Virgin IP or not - the new customers deals were hidden away so you couldn't find them (they may have been accessible if you knew where to
    look).

    IrCOve had AAISP at another location for 15 years. It has never gone up in price. It started off as reassuringly expensive and is now looking fairly standard.

    Does the price match the new customer price, or are you grandfathered onto
    an existing deal? eg the new customer deal for VDSL with 1TB cap is -u45pm.

    Theo
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 18:43:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 09/08/2025 21:06, Tweed wrote:
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 17:46:47 -0000 (UTC)
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount
    each year if their website is to be believed. The monthly amount
    goes up by -u4 each year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just
    before the 18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and (to
    coin a recent well used phrase by a certain president ) Make a
    Deal. My fee simply yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media. Since
    IrCOve been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    Zen has a valid reputation for not increasing its prices. I had one
    landline with them from 2010 until 2022, and the price never changed.
    I had another at a different place from 2010 to 2023, and that was the
    same.

    Zen are carefully wording their offering these days. No price rises during the contract. Their currently advertised contract length is I8 months. So thatrCOs a potential hike every 18 months. This is very different from their original promise of no price rise whilst you remained a customer.

    Agreed. I've been with Zen since June 2016 and the price has stayed the
    same, more or less (it was copper ADSL2 at the start. I few years ago I changed to FTTC, and that was slightly cheaper). When I am forced to
    change to "Digital voice" no doubt the cost will go up a bit, but it's
    the 18-month contracts which I am concerned about.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 17:52:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
    And they are up to their old tricks again. IrCOve just looked up their
    current offerings. 24 month contract with an 11 percent price rise after 6 >> months. And then another similar rise at 18 months.

    Another trick is that they changed their website based on whether you were
    on a Virgin IP or not - the new customers deals were hidden away so you couldn't find them (they may have been accessible if you knew where to
    look).

    IrCOve had AAISP at another location for 15 years. It has never gone up in >> price. It started off as reassuringly expensive and is now looking fairly
    standard.

    Does the price match the new customer price, or are you grandfathered onto
    an existing deal? eg the new customer deal for VDSL with 1TB cap is -u45pm.

    Theo


    ThatrCOs what IrCOm paying for VDSL. Zen want -u37. However AAISP also support my website within that cost, so thererCOs not much in it.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 19:00:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Sun, 10 Aug 2025 18:43:43 +0100
    Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 09/08/2025 21:06, Tweed wrote:
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 9 Aug 2025 17:46:47 -0000 (UTC)
    Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount
    each year if their website is to be believed. The monthly amount
    goes up by -u4 each year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just
    before the 18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and
    (to coin a recent well used phrase by a certain president ) Make
    a Deal. My fee simply yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media.
    Since IrCOve been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    Zen has a valid reputation for not increasing its prices. I had one
    landline with them from 2010 until 2022, and the price never
    changed. I had another at a different place from 2010 to 2023, and
    that was the same.

    Zen are carefully wording their offering these days. No price rises
    during the contract. Their currently advertised contract length is
    I8 months. So thatrCOs a potential hike every 18 months. This is very different from their original promise of no price rise whilst you
    remained a customer.

    Agreed. I've been with Zen since June 2016 and the price has stayed
    the same, more or less (it was copper ADSL2 at the start. I few years
    ago I changed to FTTC, and that was slightly cheaper). When I am
    forced to change to "Digital voice" no doubt the cost will go up a
    bit, but it's the 18-month contracts which I am concerned about.

    My Zen Digital Voice service costs -u6 pm, I make very few calls. The old landline was -u18.37. My 18 month anniversary is about to come up....
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 18:23:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Sun 10/08/2025 09:59, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Sun 10/08/2025 07:18, Tweed wrote:
    Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
    On Sat 09/08/2025 18:46, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 08/08/2025 16:27, Tweed wrote:

    The Plusnet FTTP prices seem to increase by an alarming amount each year if
    their website is to be believed. The monthly amount goes up by -u4 each
    year.


    I've never gone over about 29 quid a month with Plusnet. Just before the
    18 or 24 month contract expires, I ring them up, and (to coin a recent >>>>>>> well used phrase by a certain president ) Make a Deal. My fee simply >>>>>>> yo-yos between 25 and 29/mth.


    I got really fed up with having to do this with Virgin Media. Since IrCOve
    been with IDNet my pricing has remained constant.


    VM is a pain. I was a beta tester on dial up with what was then NTL
    around Y2K and found the system quite good - and I'm still with them. >>>>>
    BUT the thing most people overlook is reliability. In now just about 25 >>>>> years with them I have only had I think four outages. One Boxing Day >>>>> (when we had TV with them) the picture froze all day, a car drove into >>>>> the street cab at the top of our road (c 120m) and we were off broadband >>>>> for four days but we did get compensation, and on one occasion when my >>>>> original NTL hub decided to go slow they sent a chap around two days >>>>> later and he fitted me a (Netgear) Hub2 which was brilliant. (They have >>>>> since declared the ub2 obsolete about three months ago and sent me a >>>>> Hub4 - which has not impressed me so far.)

    If I changed supplier (and since the beginning of the pandemic we have >>>>> been City Fibred with a choice of about 18 different providers including >>>>> IDNet) the only thing that would put me off them is that they are owned >>>>> by Curry's, a company that I detest.


    CityFibre is not owned by Currys if that is what you mean.
    I had VM for about as long as you did. They offered much faster speeds than
    any OpenReach offering round here (who have still not installed fibre). But
    in the last decade or so VM went mad with pricing. Not only annual hikes, >>>> they occasionally went for two increases in a year.


    Sorry, my error. Since the comment to which I was responding was about
    IDNet I presumed readers would link my comment to IDNet - who are owned
    by Curry's.



    The ISP IDNet is independent and has been around almost as long as the
    consumer Internet.


    There is confusion around - and I fell into the trap!

    IDNet is independent, accepted.

    ID Mobile - which looks very similar - is a wholly owned subsidiary of Currys - who I still detest!


    As far as I know only IDNet and AAISP will connect you directly to a knowledgeable network engineer without going through some sort of initial triage. I use both, and they will answer queries by return of email, or by phone. IDNet is slightly cheaper.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jason H@jason_hindle@yahoo.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 10 21:17:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 06/08/2025 17:05, NY wrote:
    Our Plusnet contract expires in a couple of months. Now that PN are
    closing their email servers and offloading it to Greenly who will start >charging in 2 years, we are thinking of changing to a different ISP.

    We want an ISP with British-accented support staff who do not have that >strange mixture of clueless-yet-supercilious attitude of overseas
    technical support, who want to go through everything in grinding detail
    even though I've briefed them on "this works; this doesn't work" to
    prevent them wasting time on things I've already tried.

    Either ISP-only or ISP-plus-telephone. If we go for ISP only, we'd
    probably switch back to BT for phone.

    We don't need web-hosting: we've already got that, and we may decide to
    use the email accounts with that web hosting for everything,to avoid
    being tied to an ISP to keep email accounts.

    So which are the ISPs to go for and which are the ones to avoid? Price
    is important: we currently pay -u43 for ISP and phone (unlimited phone >calls). So that is the price to beat.

    If you have the option of one of the Alt-Nets in your area, check out the
    reviews (but also make sure you understand what you need to do to keep your
    landline number if you want that. City fibre or OpenReach (FTTP or FTTC)? I
    see a lot of love for Zen and Aquiss. I'd go with one of them if I didn't
    have the decent Alt-Net option.
    --
    --
    A PICKER OF UNCONSIDERED TRIFLES
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 09:33:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 10/08/2025 22:17, Jason H wrote:
    On 06/08/2025 17:05, NY wrote:
    Our Plusnet contract expires in a couple of months. Now that PN are
    closing their email servers and offloading it to Greenly who will
    start charging in 2 years, we are thinking of changing to a different
    ISP.

    We want an ISP with British-accented support staff who do not have
    that strange mixture of clueless-yet-supercilious attitude of overseas
    technical support, who want to go through everything in grinding
    detail even though I've briefed them on "this works; this doesn't
    work" to prevent them wasting time on things I've already tried.

    Either ISP-only or ISP-plus-telephone. If we go for ISP only, we'd
    probably switch back to BT for phone.

    We don't need web-hosting: we've already got that, and we may decide
    to use the email accounts with that web hosting for everything,to
    avoid being tied to an ISP to keep email accounts.

    So which are the ISPs to go for and which are the ones to avoid? Price
    is important: we currently pay -u43 for ISP and phone (unlimited phone
    calls). So that is the price to beat.

    If you have the option of one of the Alt-Nets in your area, check out the reviews (but also make sure you understand what you need to do to keep your landline number if you want that. City fibre or OpenReach (FTTP or FTTC)? I see a lot of love for Zen and Aquiss. I'd go with one of them if I didn't have the decent Alt-Net option.

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process
    about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are
    both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 10:38:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Mon, 11 Aug 2025 09:33:14 +0100
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 10/08/2025 22:17, Jason H wrote:
    On 06/08/2025 17:05, NY wrote:
    Our Plusnet contract expires in a couple of months. Now that PN
    are closing their email servers and offloading it to Greenly who
    will start charging in 2 years, we are thinking of changing to a
    different ISP.

    We want an ISP with British-accented support staff who do not have
    that strange mixture of clueless-yet-supercilious attitude of
    overseas technical support, who want to go through everything in
    grinding detail even though I've briefed them on "this works; this
    doesn't work" to prevent them wasting time on things I've already
    tried.

    Either ISP-only or ISP-plus-telephone. If we go for ISP only, we'd
    probably switch back to BT for phone.

    We don't need web-hosting: we've already got that, and we may
    decide to use the email accounts with that web hosting for
    everything,to avoid being tied to an ISP to keep email accounts.

    So which are the ISPs to go for and which are the ones to avoid?
    Price is important: we currently pay -u43 for ISP and phone
    (unlimited phone calls). So that is the price to beat.

    If you have the option of one of the Alt-Nets in your area, check
    out the reviews (but also make sure you understand what you need to
    do to keep your landline number if you want that. City fibre or
    OpenReach (FTTP or FTTC)? I see a lot of love for Zen and Aquiss.
    I'd go with one of them if I didn't have the decent Alt-Net option.


    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process
    about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are
    both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................
    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 13:47:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 11/08/2025 10:38, Davey wrote:

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process
    about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are
    both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................

    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.


    Say what you like about Openreach, but a least they have higher
    standards (at least as far as the DP) Proper street cabinets, that
    cannot be easily prised open, and cables and ducting buried 350-450mm deep.

    Although, I have seen some atrocities down the front of some people's
    houses, that I would personally never accept

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tweed@usenet.tweed@gmail.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 13:38:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 10:38, Davey wrote:

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process
    about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are
    both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................

    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned
    bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.


    Say what you like about Openreach, but a least they have higher
    standards (at least as far as the DP) Proper street cabinets, that
    cannot be easily prised open, and cables and ducting buried 350-450mm deep.

    Although, I have seen some atrocities down the front of some people's houses, that I would personally never accept



    CityFibre installed here two years ago. They seem to have done a good job, using properly laid ducting to decent street cabinets. Everything is ducted here, OR telephone (no fibre yet), VM (ex Diamond Cable) and now CF. CF
    used my existing OR duct to get from their cabinet to my house, about a 150 metre run. CFrCOs model is similar to OR, ie wholesaling to ISPs. That means you can choose a quality ISP, rather than being stuck with the AltnetrCOs in house ISP where prices will inevitably be jacked up (see VMrCa) and you get stuck behind Carrier Grade NAT. Mind you, they are doing a terrible job of selling the service. So far, in two years, werCOve had just three leaflets
    from three different very obscure ISPs trying to sell a connection. The
    sort of leaflet that comes with all the other junk in MondayrCOs post that
    goes straight in the bin. No wonder take up is less than the industry had
    hoped for.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mark Carver@mark@invalid.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 14:57:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 11/08/2025 14:38, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 10:38, Davey wrote:

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process
    about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are
    both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................

    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned
    bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.


    Say what you like about Openreach, but a least they have higher
    standards (at least as far as the DP) Proper street cabinets, that
    cannot be easily prised open, and cables and ducting buried 350-450mm deep. >>
    Although, I have seen some atrocities down the front of some people's
    houses, that I would personally never accept



    CityFibre installed here two years ago. They seem to have done a good job, using properly laid ducting to decent street cabinets. Everything is ducted here, OR telephone (no fibre yet), VM (ex Diamond Cable) and now CF. CF
    used my existing OR duct to get from their cabinet to my house, about a 150 metre run. CFrCOs model is similar to OR, ie wholesaling to ISPs. That means you can choose a quality ISP, rather than being stuck with the AltnetrCOs in house ISP where prices will inevitably be jacked up (see VMrCa) and you get stuck behind Carrier Grade NAT. Mind you, they are doing a terrible job of selling the service. So far, in two years, werCOve had just three leaflets from three different very obscure ISPs trying to sell a connection. The
    sort of leaflet that comes with all the other junk in MondayrCOs post that goes straight in the bin. No wonder take up is less than the industry had hoped for.

    City Fibre are laying a fibre right through our village this week, but I
    don't know why ? Unless it's just passing through to somewhere else !

    When the sun goes down a bit, I'll take a wander and see how deep !

    A friend is about to sign up for 500/500 with Gigaclear for 22 quid/mth.
    Great, but as he said to me, impossible to know what it will rise to in
    18 mths time !



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Woody@harrogate3@ntlworld.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 19:28:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Mon 11/08/2025 14:57, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 14:38, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 10:38, Davey wrote:

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process >>>>> about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are >>>>> both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................

    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned
    bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.


    Say what you like about Openreach, but a least they have higher
    standards (at least as far as the DP) Proper street cabinets, that
    cannot be easily prised open, and cables and ducting buried 350-450mm
    deep.

    Although, I have seen some atrocities down the front of some people's
    houses, that I would personally never accept



    CityFibre installed here two years ago. They seem to have done a good
    job,
    using properly laid ducting to decent street cabinets. Everything is
    ducted
    here, OR telephone (no fibre yet), VM (ex Diamond Cable) and now CF. CF
    used my existing OR duct to get from their cabinet to my house, about
    a 150
    metre run. CFrCOs model is similar to OR, ie wholesaling to ISPs. That
    means
    you can choose a quality ISP, rather than being stuck with the
    AltnetrCOs in
    house ISP where prices will inevitably be jacked up (see VMrCa) and you get >> stuck behind Carrier Grade NAT. Mind you, they are doing a terrible
    job of
    selling the service. So far, in two years, werCOve had just three leaflets >> from three different very obscure ISPs trying to sell a connection. The
    sort of leaflet that comes with all the other junk in MondayrCOs post that >> goes straight in the bin. No wonder take up is less than the industry had
    hoped for.

    City Fibre are laying a fibre right through our village this week, but I don't know why ?-a Unless it's just passing through to somewhere else !

    When the sun goes down a bit, I'll take a wander and see how deep !

    A friend is about to sign up for 500/500 with Gigaclear for 22 quid/mth. Great, but as he said to me, impossible to know what it will rise to in
    18 mths time !




    Gigaclear have just been fined -u122,500 by OfCom for failing to give
    accurate location information to 999 operators.

    One thing to be wary of with the sublets of CF is that many (even most?)
    of them provide only internet access and nothing else. No email, no
    usenet, no cloud storage, etc etc. There are plenty of other providers
    of these services but most want payment. For example in a computing
    magazine a week or so ago they were pushing readers to stop using Google
    and others for email and go to Proton instead. The catch is that you
    have to pay for Proton and they have some other odd limitations* too.
    I was advised to look at Mythical Beasts and have since seen some very favourable comments about them.

    *If I remember rightly, if you have an email address with Proton and you
    need to or accidentally erase your account, you cannot open a new
    account for the same user until a year has passed.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jason H@jason_hindle@yahoo.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Mon Aug 11 19:24:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 11/08/2025 14:57, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 14:38, Tweed wrote:
    Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> wrote:
    On 11/08/2025 10:38, Davey wrote:

    Unfortunately the only Alt-Net I have is Virgin, and, well I'm
    afraid, '.....bargepole' applies there (for physical and billing
    reasons).

    It's a shame, the village I'm in entered some sort of bidding process >>>>> about 10 years to have Virgin fibre it up, which they 'won', so the
    roads are now full of fibre tubes buried about 50mm below the road
    surface, and regularly exposed when a pot hole forms. Cowboys.

    That seems to have kept Gigaclear and Giganet away from us, they are >>>>> both, (yes both !) in neighbouring areas.

    So I carry on waiting for Openreach FTTP.........................

    If County Broadband appear in your area, reach for the aforementioned
    bargepole. 'Describing them as 'Cowboys' does a dis-service to the
    bovine species.


    Say what you like about Openreach, but a least they have higher
    standards (at least as far as the DP) Proper street cabinets, that
    cannot be easily prised open, and cables and ducting buried 350-450mm deep. >>>
    Although, I have seen some atrocities down the front of some people's
    houses, that I would personally never accept



    CityFibre installed here two years ago. They seem to have done a good job, >> using properly laid ducting to decent street cabinets. Everything is ducted >> here, OR telephone (no fibre yet), VM (ex Diamond Cable) and now CF. CF
    used my existing OR duct to get from their cabinet to my house, about a 150 >> metre run. CFrCOs model is similar to OR, ie wholesaling to ISPs. That means >> you can choose a quality ISP, rather than being stuck with the AltnetrCOs in >> house ISP where prices will inevitably be jacked up (see VMrCa) and you get >> stuck behind Carrier Grade NAT. Mind you, they are doing a terrible job of >> selling the service. So far, in two years, werCOve had just three leaflets >> from three different very obscure ISPs trying to sell a connection. The
    sort of leaflet that comes with all the other junk in MondayrCOs post that >> goes straight in the bin. No wonder take up is less than the industry had
    hoped for.

    City Fibre are laying a fibre right through our village this week, but I >don't know why ? Unless it's just passing through to somewhere else !

    When the sun goes down a bit, I'll take a wander and see how deep !

    A friend is about to sign up for 500/500 with Gigaclear for 22 quid/mth. >Great, but as he said to me, impossible to know what it will rise to in
    18 mths time !



    I'm fortunate to have a choice of two Alt-Nets, Grain and Brsk, both of whom
    give the option of a public IPv4 address. On top of that, Virgin/Nextfibre
    turned up. Hopefully, I can play them off against each other, though Grain
    have a price freeze through 2027. I'm happy with the symmetrical 900
    connection. I can run a web server and connect into my development system
    from anywhere (Being full time WFH, I like to untether).
    --
    --
    A PICKER OF UNCONSIDERED TRIFLES
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Newman@rallies_outcrop_7q@icloud.com to uk.telecom.broadband on Wed Aug 13 10:42:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 06/08/2025 17:05, NY wrote:
    Our Plusnet contract expires in a couple of months. Now that PN are
    closing their email servers and offloading it to Greenly who will start charging in 2 years, we are thinking of changing to a different ISP.

    We want an ISP with British-accented support staff who do not have that strange mixture of clueless-yet-supercilious attitude of overseas
    technical support, who want to go through everything in grinding detail
    even though I've briefed them on "this works; this doesn't work" to
    prevent them wasting time on things I've already tried.

    Either ISP-only or ISP-plus-telephone. If we go for ISP only, we'd
    probably switch back to BT for phone.

    We don't need web-hosting: we've already got that, and we may decide to
    use the email accounts with that web hosting for everything,to avoid
    being tied to an ISP to keep email accounts.

    So which are the ISPs to go for and which are the ones to avoid? Price
    is important: we currently pay -u43 for ISP and phone (unlimited phone calls). So that is the price to beat.

    I would ask why? You've already mentioned that you can use email
    facilities via your web hosting service so what's the problem. Plusnet
    offer good value, UK support albeit with "an accent" :o)

    I went down this route a few months ago and ended up seriously looking
    at Zen as I have the same concerns about offshore support. What kept me
    with Plusnet was the deal I negotiated when I contacted them to discuss leaving.
    --
    Andy

    "Do only that which is right and may your God go with you..."

    "By reading this post, you acknowledge that I may later claim I had a
    point, plan or plausible deniability. Terms subject to change!"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Graham J@nobody@nowhere.co.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Aug 14 08:57:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Theo wrote:

    [snip]


    If you were to go with a third party VOIP provider:

    PN at ~-u25-30 per month
    A&A at -u1.44 per month for a VOIP phone number
    Leaves about -u10-15 a month in the kitty for phone calls on a 1.8p/min (landline) or 4.8p/min (mob) basis

    or:
    PN -u25-30 per month
    Voipfone -u3.60 pm for a VOIP phone number
    Voipfone minutes packages starting at -u2.88 for 250 landline minutes


    A word of warning about VoIP if you wish to transfer (port-in) an
    existing landline number:

    If that landline number is with BT, the port to your chosen VoIP
    provider may well take only a few minutes (but will require 5 to 10
    working days notice).

    If that landline number is with any other supplier - such as your
    existing ISP - then you will be without the landline number for about a
    week. Callers dialling in will hear the "out of service" message or tone.

    The mechanism appears to be that your existing telephony provider
    returns the number to BT, from where your VoIP provider can import it.
    This may also be true where the number is transferred from one VoIP
    provider to another - can anybody advise?

    But OFCOM claim that number transfers are seamless and can be achieved
    during the 30 days after the relinquishing provider releases the number.

    For a domestic user this may not be a serious problem, but for a small business it would be a nightmare!

    Number transfer is clearly an administrative function, involving a
    person clicking a button at a computer. There's no need for a
    technician to go to an exchange and physically move wires. So I don't understand why the transfer from one ISP via BT to a VoIP provider takes
    a week. Can anybody explain?
    --
    Graham J
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Aug 14 09:09:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Graham J wrote:

    OFCOM claim that number transfers are seamless and can be achieved
    during the 30 days after the relinquishing provider releases the number

    I was in my case, from plusnet to voipfone. I didn't make any
    application for the number port until the vdsl to sogea port was
    complete. OK plusnet probably doesn't count as a 3rd party provider.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Theo@theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk to uk.telecom.broadband on Thu Aug 14 10:23:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
    Number transfer is clearly an administrative function, involving a
    person clicking a button at a computer. There's no need for a
    technician to go to an exchange and physically move wires. So I don't understand why the transfer from one ISP via BT to a VoIP provider takes
    a week. Can anybody explain?

    Numbers are 'owned' by the provider who owns the number range - a block of typically 10000 numbers, eg 01234 56xxxx. Most landline phone numbers
    started life on a BT exchange and that means BT own the range. When calls
    come in they first contact the owner of the number range and are then redirected to the current operator who will terminate the call.

    That means if you're a customer of say Sky using their 'digital voice'
    product on a BT line, you first need to cease the contract[*] which causes Sky to 'hand back' the number to BT. Then your new ISP needs to get BT to set
    up a new redirect to them. So there are three parties in this loop - old
    ISP, number range owner, new ISP.

    I don't know why it takes so long but it seems there's been no investment in automating the process like there has for mobile switching. It still seems
    to be a process with forms and paperwork. While ISPs are likely pretty used
    to ports where BT owns the number range, if the number range is owned by somebody else (Virgin Media, Sky, Vodafone, Sipgate/Magrathea, A&A, ...) because the number was never on a BT exchange to begin with, then you're
    into less charted waters.

    Also to say, this only affects voice number porting. Often when you take up service you are not actually porting a voice number. eg if you switched
    from one VDSL provider to another, until 'digital voice' happened your
    number remained on the copper landline that was provided by BT, even if you were paying the bill for it to somebody else, so there was no port.
    Nowadays it's possible your ISP just contracts out to BT's digital voice service and so the number is still with BT. It's only where the calls are going to terminate other than on BT metal does porting matter.

    Theo

    [*] a 'cease' is best sent by the new ISP taking over the line and kicking
    off the old one, rather than the customer unilaterally cancelling.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jeff Layman@Jeff@invalid.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 17 14:27:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On 13/08/2025 10:42, Andy Newman wrote:

    I went down this route a few months ago and ended up seriously looking
    at Zen as I have the same concerns about offshore support. What kept me
    with Plusnet was the deal I negotiated when I contacted them to discuss leaving.

    I've been with Zen for over 9 years and their support is fine. My
    broadband became intermittent on Friday afternoon and I emailed them,
    getting a case number by return. On Sunday around noon I got an email to contact them to run some tests. At 1330 I rang them and got the tests
    done. They contacted Openreach directly after the tests confirmed an
    issue and arranged for them to call to check the landline.
    --
    Jeff
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.telecom.broadband on Sun Aug 17 16:29:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.telecom.broadband

    On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 14:27:42 +0100
    Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 13/08/2025 10:42, Andy Newman wrote:

    I went down this route a few months ago and ended up seriously
    looking at Zen as I have the same concerns about offshore support.
    What kept me with Plusnet was the deal I negotiated when I
    contacted them to discuss leaving.

    I've been with Zen for over 9 years and their support is fine. My
    broadband became intermittent on Friday afternoon and I emailed them, getting a case number by return. On Sunday around noon I got an email
    to contact them to run some tests. At 1330 I rang them and got the
    tests done. They contacted Openreach directly after the tests
    confirmed an issue and arranged for them to call to check the
    landline.


    I also have also always been very satisfied with Zen's support.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2