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When/If the time comes:
I'll probably get an ATA: silly really, as it costs a lot more than a stanalone VoIP 'phone, especially second-hand. I just hate to see
equipment (i. e. in this case my old 'phones [including a dial one!]) rendered obsolete - and also quite like _using_ kit thought obsolete.
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones
that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port); last time I
looked, there were some very cheap ones, especially second-hand.
I was just wondering: what should one look out for, and more
importantly, is there anything that should be avoided? (Beyond physical faults like dodgy buttons, obviously.)
Most of the - even cheap second-hand - ones I looked at last time I
looked (probably a year or two ago) had lots of features I don't have in
my existing 'phones: address lists (well, numbers), in some cases
displays (CLI etc.), block lists, and so on.
I would _imagine_ it's best to go for ones that store things in
non-volatile memory rather than battery-backed - or do they all use one
or the other?
As always, it's not clear - sometimes I suspect deliberately obscured! -
what features/facilities are part of the "handset", and what are
provided by the VoIP provider; when I looked into providers (mainly voipfone), _they_ seemed to offer a lot of things, like recording
unanswered calls then sending you them as an email, block lists, a route
to forward unsolicited calls to (that's excellent - you can try it out
free to hear what the telemarketer will hear), and so on.
If you _do_ have a VoIP "account", can you use it (provided you have
your VoIP 'phone or ATA) anywhere you have an internet connection you
can plug into (such as at a friend's house), or is it tied to your home connection (like your landline is now)?
Do some VoIP 'phones have wifi, so they can connect without having to be physically plugged into the router? (Conversely, if that _is_ the case,
can you control VoIP access to your router separately, or just by the
normal controls to wifi you have?)
I see in these threads a few terms like "Gigaset [handset]" - are those something that requires some sort of "base station", or just a trade
name of a VoIP 'phone manufacturer, or a _type_ of handset? There are probably other terms. (I have worked out - I think - that "Fritzbox" is
a type of VoIP-capable _router_.) DECT is another such word, and I'm
sure there are others.
Are there likely to be handsets on offer that are _not_ compatible with
VoIP as it will be (is) offered in the UK - i. e., anything to _avoid_?
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones
that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port)
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
When/If the time comes:
I'll probably get an ATA: silly really, as it costs a lot more than a stanalone VoIP 'phone, especially second-hand. I just hate to see
equipment (i. e. in this case my old 'phones [including a dial one!]) rendered obsolete - and also quite like _using_ kit thought obsolete.
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port); last time I
looked, there were some very cheap ones, especially second-hand.
I am not sure if voip suppliers allow multiple SIP connections, and if
you have an ATA and a VOIP phone you will have multiple connections.
I was just wondering: what should one look out for, and more
importantly, is there anything that should be avoided? (Beyond physical faults like dodgy buttons, obviously.)
Most of the - even cheap second-hand - ones I looked at last time I
looked (probably a year or two ago) had lots of features I don't have in
my existing 'phones: address lists (well, numbers), in some cases
displays (CLI etc.), block lists, and so on.
There are many that are set up to auto-configure to a particular voice supplier.
Do some VoIP 'phones have wifi, so they can connect without having to be physically plugged into the router? (Conversely, if that _is_ the case,
can you control VoIP access to your router separately, or just by the normal controls to wifi you have?)
no idea
I see in these threads a few terms like "Gigaset [handset]" - are those something that requires some sort of "base station", or just a trade
name of a VoIP 'phone manufacturer, or a _type_ of handset? There are probably other terms. (I have worked out - I think - that "Fritzbox" is
a type of VoIP-capable _router_.) DECT is another such word, and I'm
sure there are others.
Fritz!box is just a brand of router, however the 7530 and 7530ax ZEN
supply and so which are often available on e-bay, (I have one of each)
makes a very capable VOIP PABX. It can act as a DECT base station, has a port for analogue phones, and you can also connect a VOIP phone to it.
Are there likely to be handsets on offer that are _not_ compatible with VoIP as it will be (is) offered in the UK - i. e., anything to _avoid_?
I don't think so..
.. just those that might need a factory reset, which might be hard to do
to "jail break" them from their intended service provider.
Gigaset is a maker of DECT systems (handsets plus base staton with a traditional analogue phone port) and also a maker of DECT to VOIP base stations. They're a good starting point for a domestic VOIP system - buy a Gigaset VOIP box (N300IP/N300AIP/N510IP/Go-box and some other models) and pair some DECT handsets with it (ideally Gigaset, recommend the C/S/SL series) which can often be picked up cheap on ebay. You then use the old analogue base purely to charge the handsets.
In uk.telecom David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
When/If the time comes:
I'll probably get an ATA: silly really, as it costs a lot more than a
stanalone VoIP 'phone, especially second-hand. I just hate to see
equipment (i. e. in this case my old 'phones [including a dial one!])
rendered obsolete - and also quite like _using_ kit thought obsolete.
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones
that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port); last time I
looked, there were some very cheap ones, especially second-hand.
Be aware that some office-type (Cisco etc) VOIP phones are designed to operate on a corporate network and are looking for a local (DHCP, proprietary?) server to provision them with settings. They may not be able to be configured to run standalone without the server.
I am not sure if voip suppliers allow multiple SIP connections, and if
you have an ATA and a VOIP phone you will have multiple connections.
I would expect most do. This is the standard way to have multiple handsets - ie they all register separately with the SIP server.
There are many that are set up to auto-configure to a particular voice
supplier.
Some of them are locked to those providers, ie it's not possible to
reprogram them to use a different provider.
Do some VoIP 'phones have wifi, so they can connect without having to be >>> physically plugged into the router? (Conversely, if that _is_ the case,
can you control VoIP access to your router separately, or just by the
normal controls to wifi you have?)
no idea
Yes, you can get 'wifi VOIP phones' which connect to a VOIP server over a
wifi network rather than using DECT. [Nowadays this is not to be confused with 'wifi calling' of mobiles]
I see in these threads a few terms like "Gigaset [handset]" - are those
something that requires some sort of "base station", or just a trade
name of a VoIP 'phone manufacturer, or a _type_ of handset? There are
probably other terms. (I have worked out - I think - that "Fritzbox" is
a type of VoIP-capable _router_.) DECT is another such word, and I'm
sure there are others.
Gigaset is a maker of DECT systems (handsets plus base staton with a
traditional analogue phone port) and also a maker of DECT to VOIP base
stations. They're a good starting point for a domestic VOIP system - buy a Gigaset VOIP box (N300IP/N300AIP/N510IP/Go-box and some other models) and pair some DECT handsets with it (ideally Gigaset, recommend the C/S/SL series) which can often be picked up cheap on ebay. You then use the old analogue base purely to charge the handsets.
What Gigaset don't do AFAIK is sell ATAs where you can plug in an analogue phone.
[Gigaset has been variously called Siemens Home and Office Communication Devices and then Siemens Gigaset, now owned by VTech. Some of those names may appear on older hardware]
Fritz!box is just a brand of router, however the 7530 and 7530ax ZEN
supply and so which are often available on e-bay, (I have one of each)
makes a very capable VOIP PABX. It can act as a DECT base station, has a
port for analogue phones, and you can also connect a VOIP phone to it.
... or that is a good basis for a domestic VOIP system too, especially if
you do want to plug in analogue phones.
Are there likely to be handsets on offer that are _not_ compatible with
VoIP as it will be (is) offered in the UK - i. e., anything to _avoid_?
I don't think so..
.. just those that might need a factory reset, which might be hard to do
to "jail break" them from their intended service provider.
Yes, avoid anything which is advertised as for a particular provider unless you know it's unlocked. Also check corporate gear can be configured to run standalone.
Theo
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
If you _do_ have a VoIP "account", can you use it (provided you have
your VoIP 'phone or ATA) anywhere you have an internet connection you
can plug into (such as at a friend's house), or is it tied to your home
connection (like your landline is now)?
It works anywhere.
I suppose I was thinking
of just like you can have several analogue 'phones on a single number,
and they all ring, and you pick up whichever one you want (and even two
of you can join in on two handsets); I suppose for VoIP, there has to be direct digital termination to each handset, you can't just plug in two handsets (or a handset and an ATA) to your router.
Thanks both.
On 2025/9/29 15:46:58, Theo wrote:
In uk.telecom David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
When/If the time comes:
I am not sure if voip suppliers allow multiple SIP connections, and if
you have an ATA and a VOIP phone you will have multiple connections.
Interesting point, which I hadn't thought of. I suppose I was thinking
of just like you can have several analogue 'phones on a single number,
and they all ring, and you pick up whichever one you want (and even two
of you can join in on two handsets); I suppose for VoIP, there has to be direct digital termination to each handset, you can't just plug in two handsets (or a handset and an ATA) to your router.
I would expect most do. This is the standard way to have multiple handsets - >> ie they all register separately with the SIP server.
Is that "SIP server" something in your home? (Part of the router?)
Yes, you can get 'wifi VOIP phones' which connect to a VOIP server over a
Again, would the "VoIP server" just mean your router, or ...?
When you say DECT, does that mean a "DECT base station" - something you
have to buy (or get with the handsets) and connect to your router? Such
that the protocol (if that's the right word) the handsets "know about"
isn't full VoIP, but has to be "translated" by the DECT thing?
Ah, so it _is_ as I've described above - the handsets _can't_ do VoIP on their own, only DECT, and they need the "base station" to translate from
DECT to VoIP - correct?
traditional analogue phone port) and also a maker of DECT to VOIP base
(So it has an ATA in it.)
stations. They're a good starting point for a domestic VOIP system - buy a >> Gigaset VOIP box (N300IP/N300AIP/N510IP/Go-box and some other models) and
pair some DECT handsets with it (ideally Gigaset, recommend the C/S/SL
series) which can often be picked up cheap on ebay. You then use the old
analogue base purely to charge the handsets.
What Gigaset don't do AFAIK is sell ATAs where you can plug in an analogue >> phone.
But you said above "traditional analogue phone port". Or do you mean
they don't sell an ATA _on its own_, only as part of a "base station".
You see how confusing this all is to a newbie (who has never -
knowingly, anyway - used DECT, even on an analogue 'phone system [I know
the abbreviation DECT has been around well before VoIP came along]).
[Gigaset has been variously called Siemens Home and Office Communication
Devices and then Siemens Gigaset, now owned by VTech. Some of those names >> may appear on older hardware]
Thanks, all useful to know.
"J. P. Gilliver" wrote:
I suppose I was thinking
of just like you can have several analogue 'phones on a single number,
and they all ring, and you pick up whichever one you want (and even two
of you can join in on two handsets); I suppose for VoIP, there has to be
direct digital termination to each handset, you can't just plug in two
handsets (or a handset and an ATA) to your router.
You can plug two VoIP phones into different premises, they'll both ring
and you can choose which one to answer (e.g. some customers have a phone
in the office and another at home, on the same number.
When/If the time comes:
In uk.telecom David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
I am not sure if voip suppliers allow multiple SIP connections, and if
you have an ATA and a VOIP phone you will have multiple connections.
I would expect most do. This is the standard way to have multiple handsets
- ie they all register separately with the SIP server.
So calling them VoIP 'phones - unless sold with the server - is a bit dodgy?
it presumably would have to have some configuration capability
and non-volatile way of remembering the necessary settings
Thanks both.
On 2025/9/29 15:46:58, Theo wrote:
In uk.telecom David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
When/If the time comes:
I'll probably get an ATA: silly really, as it costs a lot more than a
stanalone VoIP 'phone, especially second-hand. I just hate to see
equipment (i. e. in this case my old 'phones [including a dial one!])
rendered obsolete - and also quite like _using_ kit thought obsolete.
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones >>> that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port); last time I
looked, there were some very cheap ones, especially second-hand.
Be aware that some office-type (Cisco etc) VOIP phones are designed to operate on a corporate network and are looking for a local (DHCP, proprietary?) server to provision them with settings. They may not be able to be configured to run standalone without the server.
So calling them VoIP 'phones - unless sold with the server - is a bit dodgy?
I am not sure if voip suppliers allow multiple SIP connections, and if
you have an ATA and a VOIP phone you will have multiple connections.
Interesting point, which I hadn't thought of. I suppose I was thinking
of just like you can have several analogue 'phones on a single number,
and they all ring, and you pick up whichever one you want (and even two
of you can join in on two handsets); I suppose for VoIP, there has to be direct digital termination to each handset, you can't just plug in two handsets (or a handset and an ATA) to your router.
I would expect most do. This is the standard way to have multiple handsets -
ie they all register separately with the SIP server.
Is that "SIP server" something in your home? (Part of the router?)
There are many that are set up to auto-configure to a particular voice
supplier.
Some of them are locked to those providers, ie it's not possible to reprogram them to use a different provider.
Definitely something to look out for, thanks. (Rather like mobiles that
are stuck on one network.)>
Do some VoIP 'phones have wifi, so they can connect without having to be >>> physically plugged into the router? (Conversely, if that _is_ the case, >>> can you control VoIP access to your router separately, or just by the
normal controls to wifi you have?)
no idea
Yes, you can get 'wifi VOIP phones' which connect to a VOIP server over a
Again, would the "VoIP server" just mean your router, or ...?
wifi network rather than using DECT. [Nowadays this is not to be confused with 'wifi calling' of mobiles]
When you say DECT, does that mean a "DECT base station" - something you
have to buy (or get with the handsets) and connect to your router? Such
that the protocol (if that's the right word) the handsets "know about"
isn't full VoIP, but has to be "translated" by the DECT thing?
I see in these threads a few terms like "Gigaset [handset]" - are those >>> something that requires some sort of "base station", or just a trade
name of a VoIP 'phone manufacturer, or a _type_ of handset? There are
probably other terms. (I have worked out - I think - that "Fritzbox" is >>> a type of VoIP-capable _router_.) DECT is another such word, and I'm
sure there are others.
Gigaset is a maker of DECT systems (handsets plus base staton with a
Ah, so it _is_ as I've described above - the handsets _can't_ do VoIP on their own, only DECT, and they need the "base station" to translate from
DECT to VoIP - correct?
traditional analogue phone port) and also a maker of DECT to VOIP base
(So it has an ATA in it.)
stations. They're a good starting point for a domestic VOIP system - buy a Gigaset VOIP box (N300IP/N300AIP/N510IP/Go-box and some other models) and pair some DECT handsets with it (ideally Gigaset, recommend the C/S/SL series) which can often be picked up cheap on ebay. You then use the old analogue base purely to charge the handsets.
What Gigaset don't do AFAIK is sell ATAs where you can plug in an analogue phone.
But you said above "traditional analogue phone port". Or do you mean
they don't sell an ATA _on its own_, only as part of a "base station".
You see how confusing this all is to a newbie (who has never -
knowingly, anyway - used DECT, even on an analogue 'phone system [I know
the abbreviation DECT has been around well before VoIP came along]).
In uk.telecom J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:[]
Thanks both.
On 2025/9/29 15:46:58, Theo wrote:
Be aware that some office-type (Cisco etc) VOIP phones are designed to
operate on a corporate network and are looking for a local (DHCP,
proprietary?) server to provision them with settings. They may not be able >>> to be configured to run standalone without the server.
So calling them VoIP 'phones - unless sold with the server - is a bit dodgy?
No, they're VOIP phones. But in a typical corporate environment there are hundreds of phones which need to be provisioned with settings. Bob's office is Room 101 and he has a phone on his desk. The phone does not know
anything about that, it just wakes up and says 'hello network I'm a phone, with MAC address 01:02:03:04:05:06', and the provisioning server says 'OK, I see you're on ethernet port 3 in room 101, you are assigned to Bob whose extension number is 12345, the company addresssbook can be found <over there>, and you'll need to register on sip.company.com with the following userid and password'.
If you take that phone home and plug it into your router it says 'hello network I'm a phone' repeatedly and gets no answer, at which point it can make no further progress. The phones designed for corporate environments don't necessarily have a web interface or similar for you to configure it in the absence of a provisioning server - the entire point is that it's all controlled centrally with no config on the phones.
I would expect most do. This is the standard way to have multiple handsets -
ie they all register separately with the SIP server.
Is that "SIP server" something in your home? (Part of the router?)
SIP is the protocol for most VOIP (aside from proprietary VOIP like Skype, Whatsapp etc). A VOIP device needs to register with a SIP server in order
to make or receive calls. In a domestic environment that SIP server is typically provided by the company you rent your phone number from (although
Again, would the "VoIP server" just mean your router, or ...?Do some VoIP 'phones have wifi, so they can connect without having to be >>>>> physically plugged into the router? (Conversely, if that _is_ the case, >>>>> can you control VoIP access to your router separately, or just by the >>>>> normal controls to wifi you have?)
no idea
Yes, you can get 'wifi VOIP phones' which connect to a VOIP server over a >>
VOIP server (=SIP server) would be run by the company who provides you with VOIP services - the one you pay to rent a phone number from.
Ah, so it _is_ as I've described above - the handsets _can't_ do VoIP on
their own, only DECT, and they need the "base station" to translate from
DECT to VoIP - correct?
Yes. DECT is a digital radio communication standard, so it needs
translation either to traditional wired analogue phones, or VOIP. Same handsets, but the translator is different. You can pair a DECT handset with any base station.
The 'base stations' often also provide a handy shelf to charge the handsets. This function continues even if you are no longer using them for any communication purpose (eg if you have paired them with another base).
traditional analogue phone port) and also a maker of DECT to VOIP base
(So it has an ATA in it.)
Roughly, although an ATA is an Analogue Telephone Adapter - but at this
point it's all digital. So it's not really correct to call it an ATA, which is designed for connecting traditional analogue wired phones which have BT (or RJ11) plugs.
1. Gigaset sell DECT handsets.
2. They sell boxes which make DECT handsets talk to the analogue phone network (traditional BT sockets etc). Typically they sold a bundle of 1 & 2 together:
Handset - DECT [digital] - base station - analogue phone wire - BT socket
- copper phone network
3. They also sell boxes which make DECT handsets talk to a VOIP system. You can pair 1 & 3 so they work together, leaving 2 as the charging shelf only.
Handset - DECT [digital] - VOIP base station - ethernet - router - internet
They don't sell boxes which allow you to connect analogue wired phones to a VOIP system - those boxes are called ATAs.
Complicating matters somewhat, the combination of 1 & 2 does present as an analogue wired phone (with a BT plug on the end), so there's nothing to stop you then plugging that into an ATA to convert it to digital. In that case you're going:
Handset - DECT [digital] - base station - analogue phone wire - ATA - ethernet - router - internet
You see how confusing this all is to a newbie (who has never -
knowingly, anyway - used DECT, even on an analogue 'phone system [I know
the abbreviation DECT has been around well before VoIP came along]).
Yes, DECT was mostly just a way to do cordless phones more securely than the old in-clear FM radio that analogue cordless phones used to use (as featured in the first generation phone-hacking scandals of the early 1990s). But since VOIP came along it's been possible to switch out the copper phone interface for VOIP and make use of the better quality that was always available on DECT.
Theo--
"J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> writes:
When/If the time comes:
What time are you referring to? I plugged my old DECT base station into
the socket on my router and configured the router to use Voipfone.co.uk.
Thanks - that's a clear explanation. So how would I tell (on ebay for example) whether an item offered for sale was that sort - i. e. one I'd
have no chance of configuring - or the sort I'd need?
In uk.telecom David Wade <dave@g4ugm.invalid> wrote:
On 29/09/2025 12:41, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
When/If the time comes:
I'll probably get an ATA: silly really, as it costs a lot more than a
stanalone VoIP 'phone, especially second-hand. I just hate to see
equipment (i. e. in this case my old 'phones [including a dial one!])
rendered obsolete - and also quite like _using_ kit thought obsolete.
I might also get one or more VoIP 'phones, though, by which I mean ones
that just plug into the router (by an ethernet port); last time I
looked, there were some very cheap ones, especially second-hand.
Be aware that some office-type (Cisco etc) VOIP phones are designed to >operate on a corporate network and are looking for a local (DHCP, >proprietary?) server to provision them with settings. They may not be able >to be configured to run standalone without the server.
... or that is a good basis for a domestic VOIP system too, especially if--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
you do want to plug in analogue phones.
Are there likely to be handsets on offer that are _not_ compatible with
VoIP as it will be (is) offered in the UK - i. e., anything to _avoid_?
I don't think so..
.. just those that might need a factory reset, which might be hard to do
to "jail break" them from their intended service provider.
Yes, avoid anything which is advertised as for a particular provider unless >you know it's unlocked. Also check corporate gear can be configured to run >standalone.
Theo
On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 02:28:18 +0100, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Thanks - that's a clear explanation. So how would I tell (on ebay for
example) whether an item offered for sale was that sort - i. e. one I'd
have no chance of configuring - or the sort I'd need?
I've bought several Cisco phones off eBay, although older models (SPA301
and SPA303). They were marked as NIB and unlocked.
They have a web interface and a way of configuring via a network-
accessible text file too.