From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from u169 to u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

Thanks - Scott
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from u169 to u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want to
know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands. He went on to say that for many
years they were great but no longer. He said if you want reliability
then Sony by a mile. He also talked about screen burn being a thing
once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in, very casual
watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of, that have the
problem.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I can
find it.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to -u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want to
know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands. He went on to say that for many
years they were great but no longer. He said if you want reliability
then Sony by a mile. He also talked about screen burn being a thing
once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in, very casual
watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of, that have the
problem.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I can
find it.

Bob.

There a 4 Samsung TVs in our wider family. Not one of them has ever gone
wrong.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 18/06/2025 16:45, Scott wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to -u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

Thanks - Scott

I find LG very good, some models have built in Freeview/Freesat if you
want that feature, I have two LG both seem reliable, one of them is a
43in. 2025 should have more features than 2024.

Smart, Full HD and Fire are all useful to have.

Dont see much point in paying more than -u500 unless you want cinema style.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <102uq8s$383cf$1@dont-email.me>,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want
to know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I
can find it.

There a 4 Samsung TVs in our wider family. Not one of them has ever
gone wrong.

Not arguing, I'm just reporting what I've seen on youtube.

Anyway, found it !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYpuILVtmfQ

Watch it, take the advice or not it's up to you but remember it's not
me saying it. :-)

Cheers,

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:42:04 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from u169 to u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want to
know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands. He went on to say that for many
years they were great but no longer. He said if you want reliability
then Sony by a mile. He also talked about screen burn being a thing
once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in, very casual
watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of, that have the
problem.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I can
find it.

Bob.

There a 4 Samsung TVs in our wider family. Not one of them has ever gone >wrong.

How old are they though? According to the presenter, the older
equipment was very good but the quality has deteriorated more
recently.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Wed 18/06/2025 17:59, Jack Harry Teesdale wrote:

On 18/06/2025 16:45, Scott wrote:

I think my television is on its way out.-a I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch.-a The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to -u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

Thanks - Scott

I find LG very good, some models have built in Freeview/Freesat if you
want that feature, I have two LG both seem reliable, one of them is a
43in. 2025 should have more features than 2024.

Smart, Full HD and Fire are all useful to have.

Dont see much point in paying more than -u500 unless you want cinema style.

A friend has a 43" LG - we have the 32" version - and both are HD,
smart, superb and not expensive. For instance our 32" LG is -u149 at
present and the equivalent Samsung is -u179, both from John Lewis (or C&C
via Waitrose if necessary) and carry a 5-year warranty.
As Bob says the LG has built-in Freesat whence the picture quality is noticeably better.
Tip: use a wired connection for smart operation so there is no problem
with the TV losing the wi-fi. I run both of ours over TP-L powerline
adapters and both are 100% reliable - and fast!
If you want to look first, toddle along to your nearest Richer Sounds -
and I think you get a 6-year warranty with them.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <102v2dt$3a1of$1@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

Tip: use a wired connection for smart operation
so there is no problem with the TV losing the wi-fi.

Always sensible to use ethernet if you can.

One issue I have is on a Sony 55XD9305 which is about 10 years old.
Picture is very good, sound is awful but it's biggest problem is the memory/processor gets full and when using ethernet. The net has
plenty of "switch this off" fixes but none really work. I gave up and
plugged in an Amazon 4k Firestick.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 18/06/2025 19:41, Scott wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:42:04 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to -u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want to
know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands. He went on to say that for many
years they were great but no longer. He said if you want reliability
then Sony by a mile. He also talked about screen burn being a thing
once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in, very casual
watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of, that have the
problem.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I can
find it.

Bob.

There a 4 Samsung TVs in our wider family. Not one of them has ever gone
wrong.

How old are they though? According to the presenter, the older
equipment was very good but the quality has deteriorated more
recently.

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -
have gradually migrated to LG OLED and find the picture much better but
the samsung interface was much more intuitive
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 23:35:30 +0100
Roger Barrett <roger_barrett@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 18/06/2025 19:41, Scott wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:42:04 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to
vivid mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it
is just about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15
years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be
about right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is
LED, OLED and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K
Ultra and Smart or Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to
-u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K
so I suppose this is worth having. Does Fire TV offer any
significant advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model
for the ordinary user? Is there a market leader amongst the
manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want
to know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands. He went on to say that for
many years they were great but no longer. He said if you want
reliability then Sony by a mile. He also talked about screen burn
being a thing once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in,
very casual watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of,
that have the problem.

I'll look back in my smarttube history and I'll post a link if I
can find it.

Bob.

There a 4 Samsung TVs in our wider family. Not one of them has
ever gone wrong.

How old are they though? According to the presenter, the older
equipment was very good but the quality has deteriorated more
recently.

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -
have gradually migrated to LG OLED and find the picture much better
but the samsung interface was much more intuitive

I bought a Samsung basic HD-Ready set in early 2011, it s still fine.
The original remote control needed three different buttons to be
pressed to turn on or off the Subtitles, but a multi-function remote
control can do it with one button. Other than that, there has been no
problem. But thankfully it's not 'Smart', so doesn't out-think itself.
More recently, I bought a Cello. Not a good choice.
--
Davey.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it.

I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the
trade had Panasonic TVs.





--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 08:24, JMB99 wrote:

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it.

I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the
trade had Panasonic TVs.

I have always bought a Panasonic for the main TV. The 37" 16 years-old
one has been fine. A replacement 50" one in 2015 (full HD and internet)
went faulty in 2019 with horizontal lines on the screen. It was replaced
by JL under partial guarantee six years ago with a 58" Panasonic. There
have been no problems with that at all.

We also have a 22" Sharp which is 14 years old and that has been fine
too. It is used daily like the Panasonic.
--
Jeff
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/06/2025 08:24, JMB99 wrote:

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it. >>
I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the
trade had Panasonic TVs.

I have always bought a Panasonic for the main TV. The 37" 16 years-old
one has been fine. A replacement 50" one in 2015 (full HD and internet)
went faulty in 2019 with horizontal lines on the screen. It was replaced
by JL under partial guarantee six years ago with a 58" Panasonic. There
have been no problems with that at all.

We also have a 22" Sharp which is 14 years old and that has been fine
too. It is used daily like the Panasonic.

At the end of the day I suspect that brand name and reliability are loosely correlated. Ignoring the really cheap end, where bankrupt brands have been bought up and placed on cheap TVs manufactured in Turkey by Vestel, the big
3 (Samsung, LG and Sony) have manufacturing plants scattered across the
world. They also have budget, mid range and premium products, the budget
ones built down to a price. Then they source display panels both from themselves, each other and third parties. Then these things tend to go in cycles. Good brand high quality - bean counters see scope for corner
cutting. Quality goes down, brand gets damaged, replacement management come
in and reverse the cuts, rinse and repeat.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:45:49 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Does Fire TV offer any significant advantage?

Everything in one piece of gubbins with one remote control without the
need for any additional pluggery or setting up.

However, even if you plug a Firestick into a 'normal' TV, there are
various ways of linking the Amazon remote control to power it on and
off and adjust volume. It's a little bit of extra setting up, but you
only have to do it once, and you still end up with only one remote
control for everything.

The Amazon remote has infra red as well as bluetooth, so it can
control older TVs that don't have the fancy new interconnect systems,
and apparently some other audio equipment as well. My Amazon remote
can control a Cambridge Audio hi-fi amplifier for instance.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 09:10, Tweed wrote:

At the end of the day I suspect that brand name and reliability are loosely correlated. Ignoring the really cheap end, where bankrupt brands have been bought up and placed on cheap TVs manufactured in Turkey by Vestel, the big
3 (Samsung, LG and Sony) have manufacturing plants scattered across the world.

I remember reading an article many years ago about laptop makers.

At that time it said that all laptops were made in a handful of
factories in Taiwan(?), (there might have been one company with their
own factory as well).

It said the different brands were often made on the same production line.

BUT the difference was that each had their own Quality Control people in
the factory.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 18/06/2025 17:17, Bob Latham wrote:

In article <mlm55kp5q1aqdibcbiod8q1ob87d9jb3gd@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

There is a video on youtube that goes into exactly what you want to
know. Using SmartTube last week I happened to drop on it.

The biggest take away I got was don't buy Samsung. The guy in the
video claimed he gets more of those in for repair than any other
brand except the ultra cheap brands.

Is that because more of them are sold? Their QLED TV are actually LCD
with a matrix of LEDs as a backlight. Individual parts of the backlight
can be switched off or dimmed to give deeper blacks. A few years back
this meant a 55 inch QLED TV was cheaper than the 55 inch OLED (Organic
Light Emitting Diodes) TVs. The reviews were equally divided between
the QLED Quantum Dot technology and OLED. I purchased a Samsung QLED and
I'm happy with it.

He went on to say that for many

years they were great but no longer. He said if you want reliability
then Sony by a mile.

I really cannot speak for their TVs but in the past I have purchased
Sony branded items and have not been too impressed by build quality and
their often quirky interfaces. Personally the same warning about buying
a brand should be given as that given when buying financial products
"Past performance is no guarantee of future results".


He also talked about screen burn being a thing

once again - who knew. I didn't really take it in, very casual
watching but I think it was OLEDs or a variant of, that have the
problem.

OLED TVs can burn in if you have something static on the screen for a
long time. Unfortunately these day most channels put their logo in the
same place on the screen as long as you are watching that channel. OLED manufactures do have mechanisms in place to try and hide burn in and for
the average viewer watching an average amount of TV and changing
channels an average amount of time during the year it's probably not a
problem for the lifetime of the TV.

As you get older and eyesight starts failing don't overlook a 55" inch
TV instead of a 43" TV. Old flat panel TV tended to have a very wide
bezel around all edges of the screen. Modern TV a very narrow bezel. You
may find that 55" TV has close to the same screen size as old 43" with a
wide bezel.

A high end TV is likely to have functionality such as bluetooth and in
old age as hearing deteriorates the TV sound could be directed
wirelessly to a hearing aid or remote speaker to prevent deafening other people in the room by turning the audio volume to full :) Perhaps check
for this functionality.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <1fh75k9ks6fogd7eqgdvuh4l0kcv83l39p@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:45:49 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Does Fire TV offer any significant advantage?

Everything in one piece of gubbins with one remote control without
the need for any additional pluggery or setting up.

It might also be worth mentioning that firesticks work by wi-fi but I
prefer ethernet. There are adaptors to make them work via ethernet
I've had a device made by Ugreen (amazon) worked fine for the last 2
or 3 years.

Apart from ethernet being more reliable and usually faster there is
also the issue that the more devices you give your wi-fi passwords
to, the more companies have that information. Call me a paranoid old
fool but...

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 08:10:45 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/06/2025 08:24, JMB99 wrote:

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it. >>>
I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the
trade had Panasonic TVs.

I have always bought a Panasonic for the main TV. The 37" 16 years-old
one has been fine. A replacement 50" one in 2015 (full HD and internet)
went faulty in 2019 with horizontal lines on the screen. It was replaced
by JL under partial guarantee six years ago with a 58" Panasonic. There
have been no problems with that at all.

We also have a 22" Sharp which is 14 years old and that has been fine
too. It is used daily like the Panasonic.

At the end of the day I suspect that brand name and reliability are loosely >correlated. Ignoring the really cheap end, where bankrupt brands have been >bought up and placed on cheap TVs manufactured in Turkey by Vestel, the big
3 (Samsung, LG and Sony) have manufacturing plants scattered across the >world. They also have budget, mid range and premium products, the budget
ones built down to a price. Then they source display panels both from >themselves, each other and third parties. Then these things tend to go in >cycles. Good brand high quality - bean counters see scope for corner
cutting. Quality goes down, brand gets damaged, replacement management come >in and reverse the cuts, rinse and repeat.

I thought Sony withdrew from TV manufacturing and licensed the Sony
name. However, a quick look at Google does not seem to support this.
Am I imagining things?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 09:43:54 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <1fh75k9ks6fogd7eqgdvuh4l0kcv83l39p@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jun 2025 16:45:49 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Does Fire TV offer any significant advantage?

Everything in one piece of gubbins with one remote control without
the need for any additional pluggery or setting up.

It might also be worth mentioning that firesticks work by wi-fi but I
prefer ethernet. There are adaptors to make them work via ethernet
I've had a device made by Ugreen (amazon) worked fine for the last 2
or 3 years.

Apart from ethernet being more reliable and usually faster there is
also the issue that the more devices you give your wi-fi passwords
to, the more companies have that information. Call me a paranoid old
fool but...

Bob.

I've always understood that a wi-fi password was simply shared between
your router and any connected devices and couldn't go anywhere else.
It's used to encrypt the transmitted data but the actual password is
only stored in the devices themselves and not included in the
datastream. Or have I got this wrong?

I installed ethernet for the Firestick and anything else in the AV
rack that required internet access, assuming that wi-fi reception from
the built-in adaptors of streaming devices might not get very good
signals because of where they'd be positioned. Amazon offer their own
ethernet adaptor, but its speed is limited, and there are third party
ones that are faster.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 08:10:45 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 19/06/2025 08:24, JMB99 wrote:

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it. >>>>
I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the >>>> trade had Panasonic TVs.

I have always bought a Panasonic for the main TV. The 37" 16 years-old
one has been fine. A replacement 50" one in 2015 (full HD and internet) >>> went faulty in 2019 with horizontal lines on the screen. It was replaced >>> by JL under partial guarantee six years ago with a 58" Panasonic. There >>> have been no problems with that at all.

We also have a 22" Sharp which is 14 years old and that has been fine
too. It is used daily like the Panasonic.

At the end of the day I suspect that brand name and reliability are loosely >> correlated. Ignoring the really cheap end, where bankrupt brands have been >> bought up and placed on cheap TVs manufactured in Turkey by Vestel, the big >> 3 (Samsung, LG and Sony) have manufacturing plants scattered across the
world. They also have budget, mid range and premium products, the budget
ones built down to a price. Then they source display panels both from
themselves, each other and third parties. Then these things tend to go in
cycles. Good brand high quality - bean counters see scope for corner
cutting. Quality goes down, brand gets damaged, replacement management come >> in and reverse the cuts, rinse and repeat.

I thought Sony withdrew from TV manufacturing and licensed the Sony
name. However, a quick look at Google does not seem to support this.
Am I imagining things?

Are you perhaps thinking of Philips, JVC or Toshiba? None of those are made
by the original brand owner.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <nrq75kdbpbl62o0uj3rfi9k1m3nn56cl4u@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 09:43:54 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

It might also be worth mentioning that firesticks work by wi-fi
but I prefer ethernet. There are adaptors to make them work via
ethernet I've had a device made by Ugreen (amazon) worked fine for
the last 2 or 3 years.

Apart from ethernet being more reliable and usually faster there
is also the issue that the more devices you give your wi-fi
passwords to, the more companies have that information. Call me a
paranoid old fool but...

I've always understood that a wi-fi password was simply shared
between your router and any connected devices and couldn't go
anywhere else. It's used to encrypt the transmitted data but the
actual password is only stored in the devices themselves and not
included in the datastream.

I agree that *should* be the case.

Or have I got this wrong?

I don't know for certain but I was alerted to this when a couple of
years ago I was looking at getting a fancy electronic hall
thermostat. I fancied that "Google Nest" toy but I read somewhere
that it backed everything up to google servers or some such.

It put me off and I realised i didn't need my central heating linked
to the Internet, in fact I realised it was undesirable, there are too
many devices that manufacturers can shut down at will remotely -
Sonos anyone?

I installed ethernet for the Firestick and anything else in the AV
rack that required internet access, assuming that wi-fi reception
from the built-in adaptors of streaming devices might not get very
good signals because of where they'd be positioned. Amazon offer
their own ethernet adaptor, but its speed is limited, and there are
third party ones that are faster.

Good plan I agree, ethernet is king.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 12:28:43 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

Or have I got this wrong?

I don't know for certain but I was alerted to this when a couple of
years ago I was looking at getting a fancy electronic hall
thermostat. I fancied that "Google Nest" toy but I read somewhere
that it backed everything up to google servers or some such.

Google does seem to back up a lot of stuff to 'the cloud' unless you
tell it not to. This can include documents, pictures and passwords,
but I think it's Google and not the wi-fi router itself.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 10:05, Scott wrote:

I thought Sony withdrew from TV manufacturing and licensed the Sony
name. However, a quick look at Google does not seem to support this.
Am I imagining things?

I seem to remember something along those lines with Sony. It may have
been something along the lines of them withdrawing from making LCD
and/or OLED panels and using someone else's panels in their TVs.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <6d185k5o5q0ugbrbaa0n7rnu4ipdb226u8@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 12:28:43 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

Google does seem to back up a lot of stuff to 'the cloud' unless you
tell it not to. This can include documents, pictures and passwords,

Indeed, yes exactly.

but I think it's Google and not the wi-fi router itself.

I'm sorry, the wi-fi router?

I've never thought the router to be a culprit for spaffing passwords
to 'the cloud' but the devices you hang on the wi-fi especially if
running google code (or other bad boys) do have that potential.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 12:13, Tweed wrote:

Are you perhaps thinking of Philips, JVC or Toshiba? None of those are made by the original brand owner.

The same with Hitachi TVs which are made by Vestel (Turkey),
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 14:09, alan_m wrote:

On 19/06/2025 10:05, Scott wrote:

I thought Sony withdrew from TV manufacturing and licensed the Sony
name. However, a quick look at Google does not seem to support this.
Am I imagining things?

I seem to remember something along those lines with Sony. It may have
been something along the lines of them withdrawing from making LCD and/
or OLED panels and using someone else's panels in their TVs.

Sony OLED panels are made by LG. (LG is also a major supplier to Samsung
for OLED panels).

Sony also buys in all it's LCD panels.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <6d185k5o5q0ugbrbaa0n7rnu4ipdb226u8@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 12:28:43 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

Google does seem to back up a lot of stuff to 'the cloud' unless you
tell it not to. This can include documents, pictures and passwords,

Indeed, yes exactly.

but I think it's Google and not the wi-fi router itself.

I'm sorry, the wi-fi router?

I've never thought the router to be a culprit for spaffing passwords
to 'the cloud' but the devices you hang on the wi-fi especially if
running google code (or other bad boys) do have that potential.

Isn't the issue possibly that some piece of hardware (Firestick,
router, whatever) will ask what the WiFi password is to be and store
it somewhere as well as encrypting it?
--
Chris Green
-+
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:51:13 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

I've never thought the router to be a culprit for spaffing passwords
to 'the cloud' but the devices you hang on the wi-fi especially if
running google code (or other bad boys) do have that potential.

Isn't the issue possibly that some piece of hardware (Firestick,
router, whatever) will ask what the WiFi password is to be and store
it somewhere as well as encrypting it?

As far as I know, once the wi-fi password (strictly not a password at
all but an encryption key regardless of what everyone calls it) has
been entered into the settings of the router and any device that is to
connect to it, there's no need for this information to be transmitted
anywhere else, so there should be nowhere to intercept it. All that is transmitted between the router and connected devices is data that has
been encrypted using the password, but not the password itself.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <h7hdil-h991.ln1@q957.zbmc.eu>,
Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

In article <6d185k5o5q0ugbrbaa0n7rnu4ipdb226u8@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 12:28:43 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

Google does seem to back up a lot of stuff to 'the cloud'
unless you tell it not to. This can include documents, pictures
and passwords,

Indeed, yes exactly.

but I think it's Google and not the wi-fi router itself.

I'm sorry, the wi-fi router?

I've never thought the router to be a culprit for spaffing
passwords to 'the cloud' but the devices you hang on the wi-fi
especially if running google code (or other bad boys) do have
that potential.

Isn't the issue possibly that some piece of hardware (Firestick,
router, whatever) will ask what the WiFi password is to be and
store it somewhere as well as encrypting it?

I'm far from an expert on the subject but why would a device storing
the password in plain text be a problem *if* you cannot get in the
device without knowing the password? Or do you mean it gets backed up
to the cloud in plain text?

I know my firestick cannot upload my wi-fi password or contain it in
plain text because it doesn't know what it is. That's one of the
reasons I use ethernet.

I say that but of course who knows what network scanning software may
have been added to the operating system of any device any of us has.
CIA, GCHQ who knows but there's no point in worrying about things I
can do nothing about.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <aj885kd1ksnvpno36h0k6cmelj0avp8955@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:51:13 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

As far as I know, once the wi-fi password (strictly not a password
at all but an encryption key regardless of what everyone calls it)
has been entered into the settings of the router and any device
that is to connect to it, there's no need for this information to
be transmitted anywhere else, so there should be nowhere to
intercept it. All that is transmitted between the router and
connected devices is data that has been encrypted using the
password, but not the password itself.

That's the theory.:-)

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

I think my television is on its way out. I now have it set to vivid
mode with the backlight at max and brightness at 80 and it is just
about okay to watch. The set is probably at least 15 years old.

I am looking at purchasing a new TV. I think 43 inches would be about
right for my (fairly small) room. However, I see there is LED, OLED
and QLED to choose from as well as Full HD and 4K Ultra and Smart or
Fire TV with prices ranging from -u169 to -u1399.

I am hoping for a bit of guidance here. OLED seems to be more
expensive, but is it better? Nearly all TVs of this size are 4K so I
suppose this is worth having.

4K is more or less standard now, but a lot of content you might watch isn't
4K, and you may need to pay extra for it (Netflix 4K, UHD Bluray). I
wouldn't go out of my way for it. 4K can be useful if you ever want to use
the screen as a monitor for a PC.

OLED has somewhat more contrast (deeper black) but unless you're watching in
a darkened room you may not notice so much.

I'm assuming you just want a TV for broadcast TV and iPlayer and whatever,
not a fancy home cinema, where attention to details like this costs a lot of money.

Does Fire TV offer any significant
advantage? Is a 2025 model better than a 2024 model for the ordinary
user? Is there a market leader amongst the manufacturers?

Does any screen technology have a longer life?

Any advice or comments would be welcome from this erudite group.

For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet. Smart TVs are a
cesspit of spying:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has-unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking-obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/tv-brands-face-inherent-conflict-over-user-privacy-advertiser-data-demands/
etc etc

Just use it for broadcast TV, then plug in a carefully chosen box or stick
for internet TV functions.

The box with the least spying is probably the Apple TV, although one
downside in the UK is there's no subtitles on the iPlayer app (a spat
between the BBC and Apple) which may be a dealbreaker for some.

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but still pretty good and getting software updates. Also does upscaling which
can be a way to make better use of a 4K TV without a 4K source.

TV software tends to get abandoned on a shorter timeframe than the lifetime
of the display (apps like iPlayer stop working) and it's easier and
cheaper to replace the box when that happens rather than replace the whole
TV.

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:51:13 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

I've never thought the router to be a culprit for spaffing passwords
to 'the cloud' but the devices you hang on the wi-fi especially if
running google code (or other bad boys) do have that potential.

Isn't the issue possibly that some piece of hardware (Firestick,
router, whatever) will ask what the WiFi password is to be and store
it somewhere as well as encrypting it?

As far as I know, once the wi-fi password (strictly not a password at
all but an encryption key regardless of what everyone calls it) has
been entered into the settings of the router and any device that is to connect to it, there's no need for this information to be transmitted anywhere else, so there should be nowhere to intercept it. All that is transmitted between the router and connected devices is data that has
been encrypted using the password, but not the password itself.

Yes, absolutely correct, but does the place where you have entered it
know that? .... or is it well enough programmed to know this and thus
not store the password anywhere?
--
Chris Green
-+
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 08:24, JMB99 wrote:

On 18/06/2025 23:35, Roger Barrett wrote:

Three of my four samsungs failed with vertical lines on the screen -

I have had my Panasonic since we got DTT and not had any problems with it.

I remember one person in the trade saying that at that time most in the trade had Panasonic TVs.

most ' panasonic ' televisions on sale today are not made by panasonic.
they do make some nice OLED sets however ( containing LG screens).
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19 Jun 2025 16:23:37 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but >still pretty good and getting software updates.

Not if you ever want to watch All4 or U, otherwise it's a technically
excellent piece of equipment. I had one once, but got rid of it
because of this.

It's unfortunate that reviews of streaming devices only seem to deal
with their technical capabilities and not make any mention of what
programmes they can receive, considering that receiving programmes is
what they're actually for.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 19 Jun 2025 16:23:37 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but >still pretty good and getting software updates.

Not if you ever want to watch All4 or U, otherwise it's a technically excellent piece of equipment. I had one once, but got rid of it
because of this.

Do their apps not work for some reason?

It's unfortunate that reviews of streaming devices only seem to deal
with their technical capabilities and not make any mention of what
programmes they can receive, considering that receiving programmes is
what they're actually for.

I would have expected any Android TV box to run Android TV apps. There are
some issues about DRM if it's rooted/etc, or running an old version of
Android. But other than those I've not heard of compatibility problems
(don't have one myself).

I suppose there's an issue when the audience for the box is mostly US who
care about Netflix and Hulu - our small time broadcasters aren't on their radar.

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 18/06/2025 18:08, Bob Latham wrote:

Anyway, found it !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYpuILVtmfQ

Watch it, take the advice or not it's up to you but remember it's not
me saying it. :-)

He is mainly comparing faults with screens and seeing how his "best" recommendation uses screens made by others including by companies where
he says he gets a more in for repair.

Many brands have different screen technologies in their range with the
better screen technology being reserved for their more expensive models
-u800+

When I've been shopping around for electronic goods I've found John
Lewis to be more expensive probably because the longer warranty is built
into the price. I've found Richer Sounds to be good but I think they are competitively priced because they tend to stock a lot of end of the line items. There is nothing wrong with this and as the OP questioned what is
the difference between the 2024 and 2025 models? The answer in many
cases is not a lot
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19 Jun 2025 20:42:31 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but
still pretty good and getting software updates.

Not if you ever want to watch All4 or U, otherwise it's a technically
excellent piece of equipment. I had one once, but got rid of it
because of this.

Do their apps not work for some reason?

There aren't any, or at least there weren't when I had an Nvidia
Shield. A search online quickly revealed that this was a problem
experienced by others and had been for some time.

I really wanted the Shield to be my main TV device because it was
technically very good. It seemed to be particularly good at enhancing
video of dubious quality to look good in HD. For a while I also kept
an Amazon stick solely for the channels the Shield couldn't get, but
eventually got tired of the nuisance of multiple remotes on the coffee
table and switching between devices. Currently I have the most recent
Amazon stick with 16GB storage, which is pretty good and can receive
all the programmes I want.

Television shouldn't be about pixels. It should be about programmes.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 2025-06-20 10:36, Roderick Stewart wrote:

Television shouldn't be about pixels. It should be about programmes.

+1
--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:36:47 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-20 10:36, Roderick Stewart wrote:

Television shouldn't be about pixels. It should be about programmes.

+1

My brother elevates this to +2.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

On 19 Jun 2025 20:42:31 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but
still pretty good and getting software updates.

Not if you ever want to watch All4 or U, otherwise it's a technically
excellent piece of equipment. I had one once, but got rid of it
because of this.

Do their apps not work for some reason?

There aren't any, or at least there weren't when I had an Nvidia
Shield. A search online quickly revealed that this was a problem
experienced by others and had been for some time.

It looks like there's now a C4 app (renamed from All4) that works on the Shield:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidTV/comments/1gecvfp/uk_finally_channel_4_android_tv_app/

and there's also a UKTV Play (now renamed to 'U:', a terrible name) too: https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2450806/uktv-play-now-available-on-nvidia-shield

I agree it's taken far too long, especially given that Android TV is not exactly a niche OS.

I really wanted the Shield to be my main TV device because it was
technically very good. It seemed to be particularly good at enhancing
video of dubious quality to look good in HD. For a while I also kept
an Amazon stick solely for the channels the Shield couldn't get, but eventually got tired of the nuisance of multiple remotes on the coffee
table and switching between devices. Currently I have the most recent
Amazon stick with 16GB storage, which is pretty good and can receive
all the programmes I want.

Television shouldn't be about pixels. It should be about programmes.

Agreed. Unfortunately the broadcasters and the TV providers want us to
stay on their 'platform', rather than just watching the programmes wherever they come from. Probably because we're really just eyeballs for ads
nowadays.

(I hear Apple TV boxes have an app that aggregates various services, but not tried it - and 'various services' might mean US streaming services rather
than our TV)

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 19/06/2025 16:23, Theo wrote:

For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet. Smart TVs are a cesspit of spying:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has- unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking- obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/tv-brands-face-inherent- conflict-over-user-privacy-advertiser-data-demands/
etc etc

Just use it for broadcast TV, then plug in a carefully chosen box or stick for internet TV functions.

<snip>

What makes you think that an Apple TV is doing more spying than an Apple stick? Or for any other brand?

Using a stick instead of a TV for your internet functions merely means
that the device spying will be moved 10cm.

I agree with you about the device lifetime though.

Andy
--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 20/06/2025 16:38, Scott wrote:

On Fri, 20 Jun 2025 12:36:47 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-20 10:36, Roderick Stewart wrote:

Television shouldn't be about pixels. It should be about programmes.

+1

My brother elevates this to +2.

Absolutely. Sometimes the pixels do get in the way, but it is programme quality that matters most.

(Once my more technical son, my wife, and I were watching something.
Some horrific glitch came up on the picture, and he and I went "Urgh" simultaneously. We decided it was best if she couldn't see such things!)

Andy
--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 20 Jun 2025 16:46:56 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Another good option is the nvidia Shield which runs Android TV - now old but
still pretty good and getting software updates.

Not if you ever want to watch All4 or U, otherwise it's a technically
excellent piece of equipment. I had one once, but got rid of it
because of this.

Do their apps not work for some reason?

There aren't any, or at least there weren't when I had an Nvidia
Shield. A search online quickly revealed that this was a problem
experienced by others and had been for some time.

It looks like there's now a C4 app (renamed from All4) that works on the Shield:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidTV/comments/1gecvfp/uk_finally_channel_4_android_tv_app/

and there's also a UKTV Play (now renamed to 'U:', a terrible name) too: >https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2450806/uktv-play-now-available-on-nvidia-shield

I agree it's taken far too long, especially given that Android TV is not >exactly a niche OS.

Too little too late as far as I'm concerned. If only this had been
available when I actually had my Nvidia Shield. I remember managing to
install a phone app for Channel 4 that gave a vertical display and
also required the use of a mouse app to steer a cursor around the
screen with the TV remote. It sometimes sort of worked if you were
very careful, but was an absolute ballache to use, as was the use of a
web browser to access the Ch4 website, which was another workaround.

As I now have something that works very well for all the channels I
like to watch, I have no inclination to spend u189 on another Shield
to find out if these possibly semi-official apps are any good.

Rod.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

What makes you think that an Apple TV is doing more spying than an Apple stick? Or for any other brand?

Because Apple's data collection and sharing policies are less egregious than other brands.

(Apple TV is a box, Apple don't sell sticks or integrated TVs. Apple TV+ is
a streaming service but that's irrelevant to this discussion, aside from
that ATV boxes will try to upsell you the ATV+ service, so they're not
entirely ad free)

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 20 Jun 2025 16:46:56 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

It looks like there's now a C4 app (renamed from All4) that works on
the Shield: https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidTV/comments/1gecvfp/uk_finally_channel_4_android_tv_app/

Ever since I upgraded to Ubuntu 22.04 on my PCs, I have not been able to
stream Ch4/All4 programs using Firefox. I have a long-running ticket
with them, but it still doesn't work. Occasionally they send me a
message to say that, because I haven't updated the ticket, they are
going to close it, and I reply that I haven't updated it because
nothing has changed. So they keep it open.
As a result, I reluctantly use Chrome instead, which has no such
trouble.
I don't do 'apps', so have no knowledge of their efficacy, or lack of.
--
Davey.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 21/06/2025 10:45, Theo wrote:

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

What makes you think that an Apple TV is doing more spying than an Apple
stick? Or for any other brand?

Because Apple's data collection and sharing policies are less egregious than other brands.

(Apple TV is a box, Apple don't sell sticks or integrated TVs. Apple TV+ is a streaming service but that's irrelevant to this discussion, aside from
that ATV boxes will try to upsell you the ATV+ service, so they're not entirely ad free)

Let me try that again, now you've clarified Apple's product line for me:

You wrote

"For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet. Smart TVs are a
cesspit of spying:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has- unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking- obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/tv-brands-face-inherent- conflict-over-user-privacy-advertiser-data-demands/
etc etc

Just use it for broadcast TV, then plug in a carefully chosen box or stick
for internet TV functions."

The point I was trying to make would have worked better if I'd written Android, not Apple - Android TVs and Android STBs/sticks are available.
I doubt the spying is different between an STB and a TV.

But you would have worked that out if you were saying what I thought you
were. Could you go back and clarify please?

Andy
--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 21/06/2025 17:21, Vir Campestris wrote:

"For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet.-a Smart TVs are a cesspit of spying:

And targeted advertising.

Part of the problem is when setting up a smart TV for the first time
people are presented with a raft of questions some of which are not too obvious on what they mean. Enhance your viewing experience = spying and sharing your information and viewing habits. Worse, is the privacy and advertising items hidden in plain sight in a verbose T&C dialogue which
imply you have to agree to before you can continue to setup the TV. Many people would just skip through the T&C without reading them.

You may find that missing a tick box or misunderstanding what you have
agreed to your information is shared with the TV manufacturer and a
thousand "partners".

Yes, you can subsequently change the permissions but I do wonder how
many people do so.

On my TV there are two options for changing the permissions and with
one menu option it only allows partners to be removed one at a time.
The other menu option allows a full opt out BUT it's worded in a way suggesting that maybe it can only be enabled. The menu item is "I
consent to interest based advertising" but selecting it gives an option
to remove the consent.
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 21/06/2025 10:45, Theo wrote:

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

What makes you think that an Apple TV is doing more spying than an Apple >> stick? Or for any other brand?

Because Apple's data collection and sharing policies are less egregious than
other brands.

(Apple TV is a box, Apple don't sell sticks or integrated TVs. Apple TV+ is
a streaming service but that's irrelevant to this discussion, aside from that ATV boxes will try to upsell you the ATV+ service, so they're not entirely ad free)

Let me try that again, now you've clarified Apple's product line for me:

You wrote

"For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet. Smart TVs are a cesspit of spying:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has- unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking- obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/tv-brands-face-inherent- conflict-over-user-privacy-advertiser-data-demands/
etc etc

Just use it for broadcast TV, then plug in a carefully chosen box or stick for internet TV functions."

The point I was trying to make would have worked better if I'd written Android, not Apple - Android TVs and Android STBs/sticks are available.
I doubt the spying is different between an STB and a TV.

But you would have worked that out if you were saying what I thought you were. Could you go back and clarify please?

The TV market is as follows.

TV manufacturers want to make the most profit.

TVs are now 'smart TVs', which enable them to spy on the viewing habits of their owners. It's basically impossible to buy a non-smart TV.

Therefore a smart TV can make money for the manufacturer by
letting them sell those viewing habits to advertisers.

Instead of selling the TV once and making one-off revenue, they can get
repeat revenue from selling those viewing habits.

The TV manufacturer can reduce the sticker price of the TV in anticipation
of the juicy repeat revenue - it's the 'cheap printer, expensive ink'
business model. They hope that now you own their TV you're locked into
their surveillance.

Because that revenue reduces the sticker price, to compete every other manufacturer also needs to reduce their sticker price.

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game -
it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.


The box market is similar (many Android TV boxes are full of spying and malware, as are Roku) but there is more choice. Apple is interested in
selling hardware and services and not interested in surveillance (it's
peanuts compared with what their users spend on hardware and apps), so they have no economic incentive to surveil you. Therefore, the Apple TV box is a refuge from the surveillance. The evidence is their TOS which backs this
up.

For nvidia, they aren't interested in spying on you either (they have a multibillion dollar GPU market instead). Google definitely is, but I'm not sure how much the Shield is sending your viewing data to Google - I don't
think they can see inside TV apps. So the Shield is probably the least
worst out of the Android TV boxes, but not as good as the Apple TV.

If Apple made a television then that would likely be a standout product from
a privacy perspective too, but they don't. So the Apple TV box is the best option.

Theo
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game - it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".
--
Chris Green
-+
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 2025-06-21 20:51, Chris Green wrote:

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game - >> it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".

No, different meaning: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/survey https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/surveil
--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 21 Jun 2025 18:22:38 +0100 (BST)
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On 21/06/2025 10:45, Theo wrote:

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

What makes you think that an Apple TV is doing more spying than
an Apple stick? Or for any other brand?

Because Apple's data collection and sharing policies are less
egregious than other brands.

(Apple TV is a box, Apple don't sell sticks or integrated TVs.
Apple TV+ is a streaming service but that's irrelevant to this discussion, aside from that ATV boxes will try to upsell you the
ATV+ service, so they're not entirely ad free)

Let me try that again, now you've clarified Apple's product line
for me:

You wrote

"For any TV you buy, don't connect it to the internet. Smart TVs
are a cesspit of spying:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has- unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking- obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/tv-brands-face-inherent- conflict-over-user-privacy-advertiser-data-demands/
etc etc

Just use it for broadcast TV, then plug in a carefully chosen box
or stick for internet TV functions."

The point I was trying to make would have worked better if I'd
written Android, not Apple - Android TVs and Android STBs/sticks
are available. I doubt the spying is different between an STB and a
TV.

But you would have worked that out if you were saying what I
thought you were. Could you go back and clarify please?

The TV market is as follows.

TV manufacturers want to make the most profit.

TVs are now 'smart TVs', which enable them to spy on the viewing
habits of their owners. It's basically impossible to buy a non-smart
TV.

Therefore a smart TV can make money for the manufacturer by
letting them sell those viewing habits to advertisers.

Instead of selling the TV once and making one-off revenue, they can
get repeat revenue from selling those viewing habits.

The TV manufacturer can reduce the sticker price of the TV in
anticipation of the juicy repeat revenue - it's the 'cheap printer,
expensive ink' business model. They hope that now you own their TV
you're locked into their surveillance.

Because that revenue reduces the sticker price, to compete every other manufacturer also needs to reduce their sticker price.

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance
game - it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

The box market is similar (many Android TV boxes are full of spying
and malware, as are Roku) but there is more choice. Apple is
interested in selling hardware and services and not interested in surveillance (it's peanuts compared with what their users spend on
hardware and apps), so they have no economic incentive to surveil
you. Therefore, the Apple TV box is a refuge from the surveillance.
The evidence is their TOS which backs this up.

For nvidia, they aren't interested in spying on you either (they have
a multibillion dollar GPU market instead). Google definitely is, but
I'm not sure how much the Shield is sending your viewing data to
Google - I don't think they can see inside TV apps. So the Shield is probably the least worst out of the Android TV boxes, but not as good
as the Apple TV.

If Apple made a television then that would likely be a standout
product from a privacy perspective too, but they don't. So the Apple
TV box is the best option.

Theo

This all makes me happy that I remain a Luddite with only 'dumb' TV
sets. My Humax connects to 'iPlayer' etc streams, and that's all I
need, thank you very much. I have a Firestick, but I haven't used it in
months.
--
Davey.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 23:46:42 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-21 20:51, Chris Green wrote:

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game - >>> it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".

No, different meaning: >https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/survey >https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/surveil

Is the suggestion being made not that 'surveil' is an exaggeration?
Monitoring TV watching and purchasing habits is hardly on a level with professional surveillance of a citizen as a potential spy.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 22/06/2025 09:59, Scott wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 23:46:42 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-21 20:51, Chris Green wrote:

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game -
it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".

No, different meaning:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/survey
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/surveil

Is the suggestion being made not that 'surveil' is an exaggeration? Monitoring TV watching and purchasing habits is hardly on a level with professional surveillance of a citizen as a potential spy.

but doesn't survey suggest that the citizen is actually providing the information willingly but in this case may not even be aware what
information is being collected nor that it's happening at all?

on my TV there is a list of Partners of over 500 organisations that
would collect data if I enabled the function and which is under the
heading "Improving Your Experience" Each Partner links to their privacy
web page but a quick look over a few I see statements like

" this vendor utilizes other methods of storage or accessing information
in addition to cookies"

or "Information collected"

IP addresses
Device characteristics
Device Identifiers
Browsing and interactive data
Authentication derived identifiers
User provided data
User profiles
Privacy choices
Probabilistic identifiers
Precise location data and Non-precise location data
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 2025-06-22 12:21, alan_m wrote:

On 22/06/2025 09:59, Scott wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 23:46:42 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-21 20:51, Chris Green wrote:

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".

No, different meaning:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/survey
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/surveil

Is the suggestion being made not that 'surveil' is an exaggeration?
Monitoring TV watching and purchasing habits is hardly on a level with
professional surveillance of a citizen as a potential spy.

I'm not really quite sure what your (Scott's) point is here, but IMO the
point that matters is that the implied action (they are both verbs) is materially different in the meanings of the two words.

but doesn't survey suggest that the citizen is actually providing the information willingly but in this case may not even be aware what information is being collected nor that it's happening at all?

Yes, precisely - rightly or wrongly, that is what I understand as
being the most important difference between the two.

However, they do share a common origin, albeit rather convolutedly, full details are given in the links below which I summarise as ...

supervidere (Latin verb = 'to oversee')
-> surveier (medieval Anglo-French verb)
-> survey (English verb and noun)
-> surveillance (originally French then English noun)

... then much later, some think it's an Americanism ...

surveillance (noun) -> surveil (verb)

https://www.etymonline.com/word/survey
https://www.etymonline.com/word/surveil
--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On Sun, 22 Jun 2025 13:24:00 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-22 12:21, alan_m wrote:

On 22/06/2025 09:59, Scott wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2025 23:46:42 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 2025-06-21 20:51, Chris Green wrote:

Surely that's "survey" not "surveil".

No, different meaning:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/survey
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/surveil

Is the suggestion being made not that 'surveil' is an exaggeration?
Monitoring TV watching and purchasing habits is hardly on a level with
professional surveillance of a citizen as a potential spy.

I'm not really quite sure what your (Scott's) point is here, but IMO the >point that matters is that the implied action (they are both verbs) is >materially different in the meanings of the two words.

I was agreeing with you that 'survey' and 'surveil' are not the same
thing and suggesting that surveyance is more beneign than
surveillance, which is what I thought you meant.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Chris Green wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:

As far as I know, once the wi-fi password (strictly not a password at
all but an encryption key regardless of what everyone calls it) has
been entered into the settings of the router and any device that is to
connect to it, there's no need for this information to be transmitted
anywhere else

Yes, absolutely correct, but does the place where you have entered it
know that? .... or is it well enough programmed to know this and thus
not store the password anywhere?

Bear in mind that current versions of Windows and Android have features
to display the wifi 'password' or a QR code embedding it ...

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Chris Green wrote:

Roderick Stewart wrote:

As far as I know, once the wi-fi password (strictly not a password at
all but an encryption key regardless of what everyone calls it) has
been entered into the settings of the router and any device that is to
connect to it, there's no need for this information to be transmitted
anywhere else

Yes, absolutely correct, but does the place where you have entered it
know that? .... or is it well enough programmed to know this and thus
not store the password anywhere?

Bear in mind that current versions of Windows and Android have features
to display the wifi 'password' or a QR code embedding it ...

Is knowing the WiFi password of any use to an attacker unless they are
parked outside your house?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <103dt1q$1um9c$1@dont-email.me>,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Is knowing the WiFi password of any use to an attacker unless they
are parked outside your house?

Your Wi-Fi risk is obviously dependant on where you live and in what
sort of property.

Living in a farm house miles from anywhere you should be safe to have
open Wi-Fi. Living in a block of flats not far from a university is a
very different thing.

But attackers or just hackers that get them "because they can" may
fail to keep what they've learnt to themselves.

Bob.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.tech.digital-tv

On 21/06/2025 18:22, Theo wrote:

The TV market is as follows.

TV manufacturers want to make the most profit.

TVs are now 'smart TVs', which enable them to spy on the viewing habits of their owners. It's basically impossible to buy a non-smart TV.

Therefore a smart TV can make money for the manufacturer by
letting them sell those viewing habits to advertisers.

Instead of selling the TV once and making one-off revenue, they can get repeat revenue from selling those viewing habits.

The TV manufacturer can reduce the sticker price of the TV in anticipation
of the juicy repeat revenue - it's the 'cheap printer, expensive ink' business model. They hope that now you own their TV you're locked into
their surveillance.

Because that revenue reduces the sticker price, to compete every other manufacturer also needs to reduce their sticker price.

This means every manufacturer also gets sucked into the surveillance game - it is economic suicide not to surveil your customers.

The box market is similar (many Android TV boxes are full of spying and malware, as are Roku) but there is more choice. Apple is interested in selling hardware and services and not interested in surveillance (it's peanuts compared with what their users spend on hardware and apps), so they have no economic incentive to surveil you. Therefore, the Apple TV box is a refuge from the surveillance. The evidence is their TOS which backs this
up.

For nvidia, they aren't interested in spying on you either (they have a multibillion dollar GPU market instead). Google definitely is, but I'm not sure how much the Shield is sending your viewing data to Google - I don't think they can see inside TV apps. So the Shield is probably the least
worst out of the Android TV boxes, but not as good as the Apple TV.

If Apple made a television then that would likely be a standout product from a privacy perspective too, but they don't. So the Apple TV box is the best option.

Ah, I understand your point.

All TVs and STBs are spying on you - except Apple. And since Apple don't
make TVs you have to have a TV that spies connected to an Apple STB that doesn't, and don't let the TV talk to the Internet.

I have no idea whether it's true, but what the heck.

Andy
--
Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it.
Ghandi.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2