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I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice,
he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
This set me wondering how the tape speed of a cheap consumer cassette recorder is governed as the batteries gradually lose charge. Is there a
Zener diode to keep the motor voltage constant providing the battery
voltage is always above some threshold?
I'm intrigued what could be causing the pitch to *fall* over time. I can imagine it rising if the recording speed decreases as the batteries discharge, assuming constant playback speed. But what could be causing
the record speed to increase?
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum or TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*) ;-) In
fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over several
minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
I'm intrigued what could be causing the pitch to *fall* over time. I canIt may be that the temperature changed, altering the voltages in the
imagine it rising if the recording speed decreases as the batteries
discharge, assuming constant playback speed. But what could be causing
the record speed to increase?
control circuitry.
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum or TVIf the 85 Hz peak gradually changes frequency, you could try using that
line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*) ;-) In
fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over several
minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
as a reference frequency.
I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice,
he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
This set me wondering how the tape speed of a cheap consumer cassette recorder is governed as the batteries gradually lose charge. Is there a Zener diode to keep the motor voltage constant providing the battery
voltage is always above some threshold?
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum or TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*) ;-) In
fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over several
minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as
side of 50 Hz.
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum orIt would mean things are a _long_ way out, but could that be 100 Hz original?>
TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*)
;-) In fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over
several minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as absolute value. BICBW about that.
side of 50 Hz.
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice,
he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
As another has said, possibly temperature-related drift (especially if it was tucked into a poorly-ventilated place) - but you've said you more suspect your playback machine.>
Yes, goodness knows what the 85 Hz is. It *could* be 100 Hz, slowed downIn fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging overIt would mean things are a _long_ way out, but could that be 100 Hz original?>
several minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
On 23/07/2025 02:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as
side of 50 Hz.
absolute value. BICBW about that.
I don't know about the legal limits, but there is a website which shows
a lot of real time info about the National Grid in the UK, including the frequency variations. The information it repeats has been used in court
in the past to prove the time that a particular recording was made, and
can even be used to spot some edits.
On 23/07/2025 02:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum orIt would mean things are a _long_ way out, but could that be 100 Hz
TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*)
;-) In fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over
several minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
original?>
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as
side of 50 Hz.
absolute value. BICBW about that.
I don't know about the legal limits, but there is a website which shows
a lot of real time info about the National Grid in the UK, including the >frequency variations. The information it repeats has been used in court
in the past to prove the time that a particular recording was made, and
can even be used to spot some edits.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
I've compare the peaks at the beginning of the recording (where the
pitch sounds about right) with the end (where it is going all Neil Nunes [deep-voiced Radio 4 announcer]). About 86 Hz at the beginning of each
side of the tape, falling to about 82 Hz at the end, as analysed by
CoolEdit, my favourite audio-editing software, better (I think) than Audacity. That's a drop of about 4/86 or approx 5%.
Whatever the legal limits for short term variations in mains
frequency, they evidently maintain it very accurately in the long
term. I used a mains-timed digital alarm clock (only recently
'retired') that kept perfect time for 43 years, and only needed the
hours digits changing twice a year, but not the minutes.
there is a website which shows a lot of real time info about theThat's a good site for monitoring supply and demand of electrical power,
National Grid in the UK, including the frequency variations.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
On 23/07/2025 02:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum orIt would mean things are a _long_ way out, but could that be 100 Hz original?>
TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference (*)
;-) In fact the only slight peak is at about 85 Hz (averaging over
several minutes of recording) which I can't explain.
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as absolute value. BICBW about that.
side of 50 Hz.
I don't know about the legal limits, but there is a website which shows
a lot of real time info about the National Grid in the UK, including the frequency variations. The information it repeats has been used in court
in the past to prove the time that a particular recording was made, and
can even be used to spot some edits.
https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
I remember mine (Philips bank-of-C-cells type, with the gearshift
transport control) had some circuitry involving a transistor - I think
some sort of simple constant-voltage control.
I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice,
he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
It's a shame there isn't (AFAIK) software which can correct a recording
second by second as a reference tone varies. I have a recording made
from 405 line TV in the 1970s (*) and the 10125 Hz line scan tone is all over the place, varying with volume of sound - probably the tape
recorder's motor slowed down when the audio circuitry drew more current. There are some notes with very sharp attack so sudden demands for more current and sudden shifts of pitch.
(*) I took a feed from the TV's speaker and connected it to the tape recorder's line-in, after checking that the wires weren't at mains
voltage due to live chassis. And I waited several hours from when the TV
had last been turned on to allow EHT capacitors to discharge.
Yes, goodness knows what the 85 Hz is. It *could* be 100 Hz, sloweddown
a *lot*. The voices certainly sound very deep, though you don't have to
slow a voice very much to change its character a lot, especially when
it's someone you know and can compare with your memory of their voice.
I've compare the peaks at the beginning of the recording (where the
pitch sounds about right) with the end (where it is going all Neil Nunes
[deep-voiced Radio 4 announcer]). About 86 Hz at the beginning of each... or by 86/82, for that matter).
side of the tape, falling to about 82 Hz at the end, as analysed by CoolEdit, my favourite audio-editing software, better (I think) than Audacity. That's a drop of about 4/86 or approx 5%.
On 2025/7/23 10:34:47, NY wrote:
from 405 line TV in the 1970s (*) and the 10125 Hz line scan tone isI suppose you were playing the sound through the recorder's speaker.>
all over the place, varying with volume of sound - probably the tape
recorder's motor slowed down when the audio circuitry drew more
current. There are some notes with very sharp attack so sudden demands
for more current and sudden shifts of pitch.
(*) I took a feed from the TV's speaker and connected it to the tape
recorder's line-in, after checking that the wires weren't at mains
voltage due to live chassis. And I waited several hours from when the
TV had last been turned on to allow EHT capacitors to discharge.
Certainly a sensible precaution - there will be HT ones. I _think_ in
most sets the only capacitor on the _E_HT is the tube itself (coated
inside and out with something conductive, thus making a capacitor), but
I could be wrong about that. They certainly had the ability to recover
some voltage - you could discharge them with a screwdriver or similar
(to the anode connector on the tube side), but subsequently find voltage
had reappeared there! I think partly because the coating, though
conductive, wasn't a _good_ conductor - didn't need to be - so when you discharged it, you really only discharged the area around the connector.
And partly because there was a sort of electrical "springiness" about a glass capacitor.
On 23/07/2025 10:27, NY wrote:
I've compare the peaks at the beginning of the recording (where the
pitch sounds about right) with the end (where it is going all Neil Nunes
[deep-voiced Radio 4 announcer]). About 86 Hz at the beginning of each
side of the tape, falling to about 82 Hz at the end, as analysed by
CoolEdit, my favourite audio-editing software, better (I think) than
Audacity. That's a drop of about 4/86 or approx 5%.
If you have that information, you can use a speed adjusting plug in to adjust the speed, if necessary by splitting the file into short sections
and adjusting each one by a slughty dofferent amount, so you don't get a sudden jump.
I can't check, as I don't have Audacity on this system, but I am sure
there is a plugin which will let you specify the speed change at each
end and gradually adjust it over the playback period.
I'm about to get my other cassette deck out of the wardrobe where it is stored, which means getting the amplifier of the hifi system out as well because that's the cassette deck's PSU. It will be interesting to see whether that has the same gradually reducing speed as the tape
progresses from empty take-up spool to full take-up spool. The spool
turns OK by hand (or by pencil!) even when it is full, so it's not
binding. Very odd that two different cassettes are affected by the same fault, so it must be the player. Time to try a different one.
On 23/07/2025 14:44, J. P. Gilliver wrote:the
I disconnected the speaker feed from the speaker and connected it to
tape recorder. I think I may have wired in a 3.5 mm socket with a cutout switch so when I plugged the cable into the socket I installed in the
TV, it cut out the TV's speaker.
It wasn't quite as primitive as putting a microphone up to the speaker, though I have recordings of a few 1970s children's TV theme tunes
recorded that way, with horrendous distortion and extreme line whistle - maybe the coil of a dynamic mike can pick up some induced line scan frequency in addition to any through the air-component of it.
I took the normal precaution, which I knew about even at the age ofNot a fatal story, but I remember reading/hearing a Sinclair engineer,
about 10, of keeping one hand metaphorically in my pocket to avoid an across-the-chest shock if the worst should happen.
that's what going to the home page is called); most of the ones I've listened to have not been badly distorted (and I don't _think_ with
system A line whistle; I don't think I could hear it now, but I'd notice
it when processing them through GoldWave). So if you'd like to replace
your bad recordings, have a look there. Watch out, some are from records
of TV themes by this or that orchestra, which are always a
disappointment to me - they're never _quite_ the same as what I "know
and love"! But I think some _are_ direct recordings (some have the first second or less of the prog. in question on the end).
On 23/07/2025 16:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
-aQuite a few such themes have started to appear in my YouTube feed (if
that's what going to the home page is called); most of the ones I've
listened to have not been badly distorted (and I don't _think_ with
system A line whistle; I don't think I could hear it now, but I'd
notice it when processing them through GoldWave). So if you'd like to
replace your bad recordings, have a look there. Watch out, some are
from records of TV themes by this or that orchestra, which are always
a disappointment to me - they're never _quite_ the same as what I
"know and love"! But I think some _are_ direct recordings (some have
the first second or less of the prog. in question on the end).
Sometimes when the theme tune was released as a single, the quality was
a *lot* better than the version that you heard on TV, allowing for mono
FM sound, and maybe linear soundtrack on VHS (rather than hifi soundtrack).
I found the music "Flatrock" to "The Kids from 47a" - a very catchy bluegrass banjo and guitar tune. I watched that series mainly because I fancied the actress who played the eldest sister ;-)
Also I found a really good recording of the music to the 1960s series "Robinson Crusoe" - streets ahead of what punters heard on their 405-Well, most TVs - even into 625 and FM - still had a small elliptical
line TVs, in terms of dynamic range and frequency response.
I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice,
he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
"NY" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:105q9tm$8ha0$1@dont-email.me...
I'm copying an audio cassette that was recorded in the 1990s - hell,
that's 30 years ago! And I've noticed that the pitch - my Dad's voice, >>>> he's giving a talk to a society - seems to be getting fractionally
*deeper* as time goes on during a talk that lasts about 80 minutes.
Having solved the problem of the speed/pitch gradually slowing down as the tape recording progresses, by changing from the cassette deck in my wife's hifi to my own Technics cassette deck, I am left with another problem: warble.
It seems to affect some tapes more than others: I've just done one tape
with no discernable problem, but another is horrible! (The first was
branded Sony HD-F-90; the second - the one reproduced here - is
unbranded with no manufacturer's logo.)
Compare <http://goosebears.co.uk/sound/Fittest%20-%20Mel.wav> and <http://goosebears.co.uk/sound/Fittest%20-%20Technics.wav>
Of course there is nothing helpful on the recording like mains hum or TV line-scan whistle to serve as a constant-frequency reference
I would have expected the archive to be vastly impressed by all the
detective work, but they just shrugged it off, paid the bill and put the wires back into storage.
On 23/07/2025 10:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 23/07/2025 02:24, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/7/22 14:6:3, NY wrote:
(*) OK, I know that mains frequency varies by up to +/- 0.5 Hz eitherI think there may also be a limit on its _rate of change_, as well as
side of 50 Hz.
absolute value. BICBW about that.
I don't know about the legal limits, but there is a website which shows
a lot of real time info about the National Grid in the UK, including
the frequency variations. The information it repeats has been used in
court in the past to prove the time that a particular recording was
made, and can even be used to spot some edits.
Cunning! I like it.
It's a shame there isn't (AFAIK) software which can correct a recording second by second as a reference tone varies. I have a recording made
from 405 line TV in the 1970s (*) and the 10125 Hz line scan tone is all
over the place, varying with volume of sound - probably the tape
recorder's motor slowed down when the audio circuitry drew more current. There are some notes with very sharp attack so sudden demands for more current and sudden shifts of pitch.
(*) I took a feed from the TV's speaker and connected it to the tape recorder's line-in, after checking that the wires weren't at mains
voltage due to live chassis. And I waited several hours from when the TV
had last been turned on to allow EHT capacitors to discharge.
There is software for that purpose, but it is rather expensive. It is
called Capstan.
Countless recordings of renowned orchestras, big bands and rock groups are currently slumbering deep in archives. Yet they are unusable, simply due
to wow and flutter. The tapes worthless, the recordings lost to posterity. Until now.
For, in Capstan, there is now for the first time a program capable of removing wow and flutter from recorded music. Whether on tape, compact cassette, wax, shellac or vinyl.
I would have expected the archive to be vastly impressed by all the
detective work, but they just shrugged it off, paid the bill and put the wires back into storage.
A combination of analogue and digital problems that is going to lose us a lot of important master tapes on Betamax cassettes in that there are not enough tape heads left in the world to play them all back and recover
the data. More can be made, but the cost would be ridiculous.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2025 19:09:53 +0100, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
A combination of analogue and digital problems that is going to lose us a
lot of important master tapes on Betamax cassettes in that there are not
enough tape heads left in the world to play them all back and recover
the data. More can be made, but the cost would be ridiculous.
Who stores master tapes on Betamax? Like nobody, ever.
It was a domestic format. Maybe you were thinking of BetaCam?
But that wasn't really a format used for 'proper programmes' for
very long.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2025 19:09:53 +0100, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:In the early days of digital audio, a means was devised to convert the
A combination of analogue and digital problems that is going to lose us a >> lot of important master tapes on Betamax cassettes in that there are not
enough tape heads left in the world to play them all back and recover >> the data. More can be made, but the cost would be ridiculous.
Who stores master tapes on Betamax? Like nobody, ever.
It was a domestic format. Maybe you were thinking of BetaCam?
But that wasn't really a format used for 'proper programmes' for
very long.
On 27/07/2025 07:42, Smolley wrote:
<Tape wow and flutter?
There is software for that purpose, but it is rather expensive. It is
called Capstan.
Countless recordings of renowned orchestras, big bands and rock groups are >> currently slumbering deep in archives. Yet they are unusable, simply due
to wow and flutter. The tapes worthless, the recordings lost to posterity. >> Until now.
For, in Capstan, there is now for the first time a program capable of
removing wow and flutter from recorded music. Whether on tape, compact
cassette, wax, shellac or vinyl.
The sticky tape problem can often be solved by "baking" the tape, so it
can be played once and digitised.
There is also a free plugin for older versions of Winamp which can cure
many of the other problems when playing tapes back.
On 2025/7/27 8:38:2, John Williamson wrote:
On 27/07/2025 07:42, Smolley wrote:
<Tape wow and flutter?
There is software for that purpose, but it is rather expensive. It is
called Capstan.
(Quite a good name!) What sort of expensive? I'm imagining, due to its potential use by recording companies, that we're into five or six
figures (of pounds/dollars).
Countless recordings of renowned orchestras, big bands and rock groups are >>> currently slumbering deep in archives. Yet they are unusable, simply due >>> to wow and flutter. The tapes worthless, the recordings lost to posterity. >>> Until now.
For, in Capstan, there is now for the first time a program capable of
removing wow and flutter from recorded music. Whether on tape, compact
cassette, wax, shellac or vinyl.
Assuming it works by the means we've been discussing - locking onto some reference unintentionally included in the original recording, such as
mains hum or its harmonics, or video line scan (or something else -
ideas? Of course, could be specific to circumstances, such as a specific noise at one location/occasion) - then presumably, though less ideal
than working with the original analogue recording, it can also work with
an already-digitised copy. In fact, as it's software, I imagine that in practice it mostly _does_ work on that, though if it's expensive I'd
hope it also has the ability to play with sampling rates of hardware
making a new file.
I hope it can handle the specific (and particularly brain-ache-inducing
when thinking about what mathematics are needed to correct for it) form
of wow due to off-centre (worn or mis-punched) records.
I'm quite impressed it can do flutter as well as wow.>>
The sticky tape problem can often be solved by "baking" the tape, so itWhat _other_ problems? (And is it just a cure-while-playing, or can it
can be played once and digitised.
There is also a free plugin for older versions of Winamp which can cure
many of the other problems when playing tapes back.
save the cured result?)
On Tue, 22 Jul 2025 19:09:53 +0100, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
A combination of analogue and digital problems that is going to lose us a lot of important master tapes on Betamax cassettes in that there are not enough tape heads left in the world to play them all back and recover
the data. More can be made, but the cost would be ridiculous.
Who stores master tapes on Betamax? Like nobody, ever.
It was a domestic format. Maybe you were thinking of BetaCam?
But that wasn't really a format used for 'proper programmes' for
very long.
Mechanical degradation caused by defective devices or
sticking tapes, by ageing or defective storage. In the past, it was
usually impossible to get rid of wow and flutter.
Countless recordings of renowned orchestras, big bands and rock groups are currently slumbering deep in archives. Yet they are unusable, simply due
to wow and flutter. The tapes worthless, the recordings lost to posterity. Until now.
For, in Capstan, there is now for the first time a program capable of removing wow and flutter from recorded music. Whether on tape, compact cassette, wax, shellac or vinyl.
Historic recordings on aluminium-based nitrate discs don't wow because
the centre hole during recording is the same hole that is used for
locating the disc on playback.
On 27/07/2025 18:43, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Historic recordings on aluminium-based nitrate discs don't wow because
the centre hole during recording is the same hole that is used for
locating the disc on playback.
I have an aluminium 78 rpm "transcription disc" from the BBC in their Manchester studio. It was given to my grandpa as a recording of a
programme he did for Children's Hour in 1948. (*)
Would that be nitrate or some less flammable base such as shellac on the aluminium?
The fact that it hasn't been stored *exceptionally* carefully, just in amongst LPs, and hasn't gone bang in the intervening 77 years suggests
that it's probably safe...
(*) As I was going through my parents' loft the other week, I even found
a typed script of the programme. I was amused to see that every pause,
every hesitation or doubtful tone in his voice was written into the
script. At least there isn't a special typewriter typeface to denote the appalling pseudo Home Counties accent that he was required to attempt, because the studio manager, a Mancunian, told him that the boys and
girls of Bucks, Berks and Herts wouldn't understand his very mild West
Riding accent. To be told this by someone from The County That Must Not
Be Named was the ultimate insult so he hammed it up for all he was worth
- with every syllable you could hear in the recording that he was shamelessly taking the piss. "End sew, children, pritty syoon the smoake
is camming aout of the chimney laike a ballett fram a gan" (And so, children, pretty soon the smoke is coming out of the chimney like a
bullet from a gun).
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On 27/07/2025 18:43, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Historic recordings on aluminium-based nitrate discs don't wow because
the centre hole during recording is the same hole that is used for
locating the disc on playback.
I have an aluminium 78 rpm "transcription disc" from the BBC in their
Manchester studio. It was given to my grandpa as a recording of a
programme he did for Children's Hour in 1948. (*)
Would that be nitrate or some less flammable base such as shellac on the
aluminium?
It would almost certainly be nitrate.
The fact that it hasn't been stored *exceptionally* carefully, just in
amongst LPs, and hasn't gone bang in the intervening 77 years suggests
that it's probably safe...
That's as good a way as any of storing it, no excessive heat, no damp,
no sunlight. If it looks like any other record, it will be safe as long
as you don't put it in the oven. If the coating is beginning to shrink
and show glints of aluiminium through splits at the bottoms of the
grooves, it is on the way to becoming more dangeraus. If it is starting
to show 'mud cracks' it is definitely flammable and if there is any red powder, tiptoe away and call the Bomb Disposal Squad.
On 23/07/2025 16:11, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Quite a few such themes have started to appear in my YouTube feed (if
that's what going to the home page is called); most of the ones I've
listened to have not been badly distorted (and I don't _think_ with
system A line whistle; I don't think I could hear it now, but I'd notice
it when processing them through GoldWave). So if you'd like to replace
your bad recordings, have a look there. Watch out, some are from records
of TV themes by this or that orchestra, which are always a
disappointment to me - they're never _quite_ the same as what I "know
and love"! But I think some _are_ direct recordings (some have the first
second or less of the prog. in question on the end).
Sometimes when the theme tune was released as a single, the quality was
a *lot* better than the version that you heard on TV, allowing for mono
FM sound, and maybe linear soundtrack on VHS (rather than hifi soundtrack).
I found the music "Flatrock" to "The Kids from 47a" - a very catchy >bluegrass banjo and guitar tune. I watched that series mainly because I >fancied the actress who played the eldest sister ;-)
Also I found a really good recording of the music to the 1960s series >"Robinson Crusoe" - streets ahead of what punters heard on their
405-line TVs, in terms of dynamic range and frequency response.
Well, most TVs - even into 625 and FM - still had a small elliptical >speaker, usually tucked into a non-optimum place and with no proper
cabinet design. Even my first NICAM set (a Decca, though
badge-engineered [actually I think it was DECCACOLOUR], made in Japan
IIRR), though I think it had round speakers, rattled if you turned it up >much. I think I have seen the one you mention, on YouTube - not one I >remember (I was born 1960, but moved out of range of British TV in about >1966).
<Snipped>
Well, most TVs - even into 625 and FM - still had a small elliptical
speaker, usually tucked into a non-optimum place and with no proper
cabinet design. Even my first NICAM set (a Decca, though
badge-engineered [actually I think it was DECCACOLOUR], made in Japan
IIRR), though I think it had round speakers, rattled if you turned it up
much. I think I have seen the one you mention, on YouTube - not one I
remember (I was born 1960, but moved out of range of British TV in about
1966).
The Swedish supplied Philips K7 TV was very good in the sound aspect
treble and bass controls neg feedback and more then the one speaker the colour difference drive added an extra dimension to the picture too all around 1975 ish!..
There was a Baird Mono set, that had much better sound cant remember the model number now..
I will check it very carefully for coating splitting/cracking and red
powder.
At least I have a digital copy of it. It would have been nice to have
played it with a proper 78 needle to avoid some of the surface noise
that you get with an LP stylus. I played it at 33 1/3 rpm and then
resampled it to 78 rpm because my record deck doesn't do 78.
I knew we should have kept my grandpa's radiogram - ugly bit of
furniture in a cabinet about 6 feet long but its turntable had a
flip-over stylus for 33/45 or for 78 rpm records.
I hardly ever used the speaker in my TV. I used my VCR as a "tuner",
whether or not I was recording a programme as I was watching it being broadcast, partly because the TV's speaker was crap and partly because
it was mono/FM only, whereas the VCR (connected to my hifi and
headphones) was NICAM stereo.
The first colour TV that my parents *bought* (as opposed to renting from Granada) was a Bang and Olufson, and while it had very good quality
sound with wide frequency response, it had godawful sibilance on certain
newsreaders' voices - it was either Angela Rippon or Jan Leeming whose
voice set it off :-( It made the windows of my mum's display cabinet
(and my ears) rattle. Even with minimum treble the problem couldn't be entirely removed. I've never heard any other TV with sibilance problems. Normally it's only a problem with Radio 4 announcers and presenters -
apart from Charlotte Green's whose voice was the audible version of soft warm honey.Ah, lovely Lottie. I remember at an UMRA barbecue auction (for charity,
Made a sound only tuner for TV many years ago was very surprised at how
good it was certainly better than on a domestic TV set with the scaled
down amp and speaker!
No reason why it shouldn't have been as always said its OK leaving us!..
There was a Baird Mono set, that had much better sound cant
remember the model number now..
On 28/07/2025 20:48, tony sayer wrote:
<Snipped>
Well, most TVs - even into 625 and FM - still had a small elliptical
speaker, usually tucked into a non-optimum place and with no proper
cabinet design. Even my first NICAM set (a Decca, though
badge-engineered [actually I think it was DECCACOLOUR], made in Japan
IIRR), though I think it had round speakers, rattled if you turned it up >>> much. I think I have seen the one you mention, on YouTube - not one I
remember (I was born 1960, but moved out of range of British TV in about >>> 1966).
The Swedish supplied Philips K7 TV was very good in the sound aspect
treble and bass controls neg feedback and more then the one speaker the
colour difference drive added an extra dimension to the picture too all
around 1975 ish!..
There was a Baird Mono set, that had much better sound cant remember the
model number now..
I hardly ever used the speaker in my TV. I used my VCR as a "tuner",
whether or not I was recording a programme as I was watching it being >broadcast, partly because the TV's speaker was crap and partly because
it was mono/FM only, whereas the VCR (connected to my hifi and
headphones) was NICAM stereo.
That colour TV (I think it was a JVC) was my first big purchase soon
after I bought my first house in 1987; until then I used a small B&W TV
that I'd originally bought as a monitor for my ZX81 and used (with
dubious legality) when I was in hall of residence at university.
The first colour TV that my parents *bought* (as opposed to renting from >Granada) was a Bang and Olufson, and while it had very good quality
sound with wide frequency response, it had godawful sibilance on certain >newsreaders' voices - it was either Angela Rippon or Jan Leeming whose
voice set it off :-( It made the windows of my mum's display cabinet
(and my ears) rattle. Even with minimum treble the problem couldn't be >entirely removed. I've never heard any other TV with sibilance problems. >Normally it's only a problem with Radio 4 announcers and presenters -
apart from Charlotte Green's whose voice was the audible version of soft >warm honey.
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[...]
I will check it very carefully for coating splitting/cracking and red
powder.
It's very rare that they decompse that far, but it is worth checking.
At least I have a digital copy of it. It would have been nice to have
played it with a proper 78 needle to avoid some of the surface noise
that you get with an LP stylus. I played it at 33 1/3 rpm and then
resampled it to 78 rpm because my record deck doesn't do 78.
That's a terrible way of dealing with them (although not as bad as
playing them with a steel needle, which will destroy the grooves
completely). If you live anywhere near Bath, contact me by e-mail and I
will copy them for you free of charge.
I knew we should have kept my grandpa's radiogram - ugly bit of
furniture in a cabinet about 6 feet long but its turntable had a
flip-over stylus for 33/45 or for 78 rpm records.
You would still have been unlikely to get the best out of it because the >recording characteristics for microgroove records were usually different
from those for coarse-grooved discs - although the BBC used different >characteristics at different times and may have used RIAA towards the
end of the disc era. They recorded contributors personal copies with a >commercial characterisitc but had their own curves for transcription
discs: the BBC 'D' curve, approximately 2dB per octave.
The first colour TV that my parents *bought* (as opposed to renting from Granada) was a Bang and Olufson, and while it had very good quality
sound with wide frequency response, it had godawful sibilance on certain newsreaders' voices
In article <1rg7b0d.1sqepa3lqdsliN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[...]
I will check it very carefully for coating splitting/cracking and red
powder.
It's very rare that they decompse that far, but it is worth checking.
At least I have a digital copy of it. It would have been nice to have
played it with a proper 78 needle to avoid some of the surface noise
that you get with an LP stylus. I played it at 33 1/3 rpm and then
resampled it to 78 rpm because my record deck doesn't do 78.
That's a terrible way of dealing with them (although not as bad as
playing them with a steel needle, which will destroy the grooves >completely). If you live anywhere near Bath, contact me by e-mail and I >will copy them for you free of charge.
I knew we should have kept my grandpa's radiogram - ugly bit of
furniture in a cabinet about 6 feet long but its turntable had a
flip-over stylus for 33/45 or for 78 rpm records.
You would still have been unlikely to get the best out of it because the >recording characteristics for microgroove records were usually different >from those for coarse-grooved discs - although the BBC used different >characteristics at different times and may have used RIAA towards the
end of the disc era. They recorded contributors personal copies with a >commercial characterisitc but had their own curves for transcription
discs: the BBC 'D' curve, approximately 2dB per octave.
Remember when i left school and started work at Pye TVT (TeleVision Transmitters) in Coldhams lane Cambridge, there was a sound products
area and they made this transcription unit Thorens deck and a disc amp section with no end of EQ settings anyone else see one?..
tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
In article <1rg7b0d.1sqepa3lqdsliN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
[...]
I will check it very carefully for coating splitting/cracking and red
powder.
It's very rare that they decompse that far, but it is worth checking.
At least I have a digital copy of it. It would have been nice to have
played it with a proper 78 needle to avoid some of the surface noise
that you get with an LP stylus. I played it at 33 1/3 rpm and then
resampled it to 78 rpm because my record deck doesn't do 78.
That's a terrible way of dealing with them (although not as bad as
playing them with a steel needle, which will destroy the grooves
completely). If you live anywhere near Bath, contact me by e-mail and I
will copy them for you free of charge.
I knew we should have kept my grandpa's radiogram - ugly bit of
furniture in a cabinet about 6 feet long but its turntable had a
flip-over stylus for 33/45 or for 78 rpm records.
You would still have been unlikely to get the best out of it because the
recording characteristics for microgroove records were usually different
from those for coarse-grooved discs - although the BBC used different
characteristics at different times and may have used RIAA towards the
end of the disc era. They recorded contributors personal copies with a
commercial characterisitc but had their own curves for transcription
discs: the BBC 'D' curve, approximately 2dB per octave.
Remember when i left school and started work at Pye TVT (TeleVision
Transmitters) in Coldhams lane Cambridge, there was a sound products
area and they made this transcription unit Thorens deck and a disc amp
section with no end of EQ settings anyone else see one?..
I've not seen that particular unit but there have been quite a few
pieces of multi-equalisation equipment over the years.
The basic parameters are the mid-frequency transition from constant
velocity to constant amplitude, the bottom point at which the correction
is discontinued and the point above which pre-emphasis applied to high >frequencies. These are usually expressed as time constants and so three >numbers can represent the entire characteristic for a given disc.
In order to simplify this, for people who don't like numbers, the
equipment manufacturers resorted to switching the time constants in >configurations corresponding to individual disc manufacturers. Thus, if
it says "HMV" on the label, you put the switch to "HMV" and it selects
an appropriate set of three time constants. Unfortunately the record >manufacturers used different time constants at different times, so a
single setting can't always be right. Furthermore, some records
recorded by one company may have been pressed with a different company's >label, so the label is an unreliable guide.
The characteristics used by some companies in the early electrical
recording days were either unknown to the companies themselves (if they >didn't have a way of testing them) or may have become lost in the mists
of time. The whole system is a mess and sometimes a good practiced ear
is the only way to approximate the settigs.
Theres a community radio station here in Cambridge they used to have an outfit called the "shellac collective" to be a member i think you had to possess an EMT turntable else you were a non entity!.
One of they did have an Edison phonograph that was or could be miked up
that did sound surprisingly good!...
tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
Theres a community radio station here in Cambridge they used to have an
outfit called the "shellac collective" to be a member i think you had to
possess an EMT turntable else you were a non entity!.
I have serviced an EMT for a transcription engineer but could never
afford one myself. There are several turntables of quality which is >comparable in most aspects except for rumble. A lot of broadcast EMTs
were fitted with an SME arm - but the whole radial arm business is
inherently flawed and the biggest improvement is to be had by replacing
it with a parallel-tracking arm..
One of they did have an Edison phonograph that was or could be miked up
that did sound surprisingly good!...
If you hear one in good condition playing unworn cylinders, it is quite >amazing how good they are.
One of they did have an Edison phonograph that was or could be miked up
that did sound surprisingly good!...
If you hear one in good condition playing unworn cylinders, it is quite >amazing how good they are.
Indeed Analogue from beginning to end;)...
Question.. How did they duplicate them from what "Master" recording were
they from?.
Or was it just a one time recording?..