From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so
if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always had
even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap, it
hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on 332
for the 8th wicket.
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/2/2025 12:20 PM, John Hall wrote:

In message <6fe4f959c84b53909bf201e62778fe7c@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes

So India do rest Bumrah, replaced by Akash Deep, Sudharson and Thakur
out, Reddy and Sundar in. And Stokes puts india in. Again. Hes got a 1
track mind. No doubt the statsguru told him to do it, but England got
lucky in the last match; surely india wont drop so many catches again,
and having picked 2 spinners, they prob wanted to bat first anyway.

mike

Edgbaston seems to be like Headingley, in that in recent years there's
been little or no deterioration in the pitch during the game. Apparently
the last four Tests there have been won by the side batting second. And
of course England believe they can chase down almost any score in the
fourth innings.

Considering the pitch and their lack of luck with "umpire's call"
decisions, England had a reasonable day. With an almost brand new ball,
if they can break the overnight partnership early on they will hope to
limit India to about 400.

Did England deliberately SHORTEN the boundaries at Edgbaston to derive advantage like they did in 2005 Ashes vs Shane Warne and vs India in
2019 World Cup?


https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-edgbaston-boundary-size-bazball-icc-rules-india-affect-10105439/

IND vs ENG: Have England shortened Edgbaston boundary dimensions for
Bazball advantage? How it affects India, ICC rules and more

IND vs ENG 2nd Test: Boundary dimensions at the Edgbaston have
perceivably been shortened by England against India to benefit their
Bazball style of batting under captain Ben Stokes and head coach Brendon McCullum.


The peculiar boundary dimensions at the Edgbaston ground for the ongoing
India vs England Test this week have sparked discussions about Ben
Stokes’ home side leveraging conditions in their backyard to aid their ‘Bazball’ style of cricket against Shubman Gill’s men.

Ever since reports emerged that India were deliberating the thought of fielding two spinners, which they eventually did by picking Ravindra
Jadeja and Washington Sundar, Stokes and head coach Brendon McCullum
have been in contact with the groundsmen to bring in the boundary ropes
to the least permissible limit within the ICC’s playing conditions.

The ploy has been linked to negate the threat of the tweakers and apply
more pressure on the fielders by targeting the shorter square boundaries.

The Times UK reported that it was confirmed by match officials that the boundary on no part of the ground was longer than 71 yards (64.9 metres)
from the stumps, with England bringing in the ropes further than what it
was in the recent matches against West Indies and Australia in the 2023
Ashes on the ground.

The straight boundaries were determined to be around 60 metres, nearly
30m short of the maximum allowed distance by the ICC’s playing conditions.

What do the ICC rules suggest?

While England have indeed attempted to gain an advantage in reducing the effect spinners Jadeja and Sundar may have on the strip, they have not
bent any officially laid down rules while at it.

“No boundary shall be longer than 90 yards [or] shorter than 65 yards
from the centre of the pitch,” reads a statement in the ICC World Test Championship playing conditions. However, it is to be noted “the aim
shall be to maximise the size of the playing area at each venue”.

The rules also state that it is the home board’s discretion to determine
the ranges of the boundary dimensions that will remain fixed throughout
the match. “Before the match the umpires shall consult with the home
board to determine the boundary of the field of play”.

“There’s communication throughout … We give as much information as we can to suit what team we want to go for — and how we want to play our cricket as well,” Edgbaston groundsman Gary Barwell had told reporters
when asked about the messages passed from the England camp.
How did the boundary dimensions affect India while batting?

While the overall make-up of the conditions and the flatbed pitch helped
India put on 587 in 151 overs, India were dealt a minor blow when star
batter Rishabh Pant’s miscalculation of the shortened boundaries ended
with his dismissal off off-spinner Shoaib Bashir. After cracking one
maximum, Pant attempted another swing over the distinctly smaller wide
long-on boundary, but holed out to Zak Crawley, the celebrations of
which suggested a plan had worked out to disrupt the batter’s instincts.

Have England employed shorter dimensions befoe?

Yes. More famously in the 2005 Ashes against Shane Warne and Co. and
more recently against India in the 2019 World Cup. An in-form unit led
by Virat Kohli were stopped in the group stages by England when they
stubbed spinners Yuzvendra Chahal and Kuldeep Yadav for 160 runs in 20
overs in an eventual 31 runs. The Men in Blue were reportedly displeased
by England’s tactic, forcing unusually short boundaries on one side of
the square.

How have former England players reacted to the Edgbaston boundary
dimensions?

Former England all-rounder David Lloyd could not reason why the
boundaries were brought in as much as they had this week at Edgbaston.
“I was confused by how far in the boundary ropes were. I think it has something to do with having them not too close to the advertising
boards,” Lloyd wrote in the Daily Mail.

However, former England pacer Steve Finn linked the ploy to Bazball and Stokes’ choice to chase down totals after winning the toss at home. “I stood right by the boundary rope, which is a considerable way in from
where you may anticipate for a normal Test match,” he said on BBC. “England and their propensity to want to win the toss, bowl first and
chase in the last innings maybe is the reason why those boundaries have
come so far in.”




--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 04/07/2025 17:34, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so >>> if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always had
even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap, it
hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on 332
for the 8th wicket.

It is also the lowest to include two 150+ scores.
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 04/07/2025 17:58, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 17:34, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do
draws so
if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always
had even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap,
it hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in
the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on
332 for the 8th wicket.

It is also the lowest to include two 150+ scores.

The previous lowest there was 414 by WI v Eng at Georgetown in 1967/68
(Kanhai 150, Sobers 152). There have been 3 other instances under 420:

Pak 417 v NZ, Lahore 1976/77 (Javed Mianded 163, Asif Iqbal 166)
Pak 417 v WI, Karachi 1997/98 (Aamer Sohail 160, Ijaz Ahmed 151)
Aus 419 v Eng, MCG 2006/07 (Hayden 153, Symonds 156)
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/2/2025 12:20 PM, John Hall wrote:

In message <6fe4f959c84b53909bf201e62778fe7c@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes

So India do rest Bumrah, replaced by Akash Deep, Sudharson and Thakur
out, Reddy and Sundar in. And Stokes puts india in. Again. Hes got a 1
track mind. No doubt the statsguru told him to do it, but England got
lucky in the last match; surely india wont drop so many catches again,
and having picked 2 spinners, they prob wanted to bat first anyway.

mike

Edgbaston seems to be like Headingley, in that in recent years there's
been little or no deterioration in the pitch during the game. Apparently
the last four Tests there have been won by the side batting second. And
of course England believe they can chase down almost any score in the
fourth innings.

Considering the pitch and their lack of luck with "umpire's call"
decisions, England had a reasonable day. With an almost brand new ball,
if they can break the overnight partnership early on they will hope to
limit India to about 400.

I think the umpires calls evened out with a couple of England batsmen
getting them in their favor.


India should set England a target of 500+ and declare leaving 45 minutes
for England to bat on 4th day evening.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <mcqe4mFe1ndU2@mid.individual.net>, David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so >>> if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always
had even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap, >>hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in the >infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on 332
for the 8th wicket.

And according to Sky, unsurprisingly it was also the highest Test
innings to include six ducks. Stokes followed his vice-captain in
getting a first-baller, yet another odd incident in what was a bizarre
day.

Brook and Smith's 303 was England's highest sixth-wicket partnership
against India, and Smith's 184* was the highest innings by an England
keeper, beating Alec Stewart's 173. (Stewart also has a 190 to his
credit, but in that Test he wasn't keeping wicket.)

Given how mentally and physically tired Smith must have been after his innings, I wondered if Pope might keep wicket this evening, but Smith
did it and no chances came his way, so his day didn't end in the
anticlimax of dropping one, which would have been a shame.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On Fri, 4 Jul 2025 18:16:33 +0000, John Hall wrote:

In message <mcqe4mFe1ndU2@mid.individual.net>, David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so >>>> if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always
had even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap, >>>hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to >>include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in the >>infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on 332
for the 8th wicket.

without that stand, england wouldnt have made the follow on, and when
root was out, i def thought they wouldnt.

And according to Sky, unsurprisingly it was also the highest Test
innings to include six ducks. Stokes followed his vice-captain in
getting a first-baller, yet another odd incident in what was a bizarre
day.

Brook and Smith's 303 was England's highest sixth-wicket partnership
against India, and Smith's 184* was the highest innings by an England
keeper, beating Alec Stewart's 173. (Stewart also has a 190 to his
credit, but in that Test he wasn't keeping wicket.)

it was a fabulous innings, brooks was a bit iffy at times like he often
is,
if only woakes or 1 of the tail could have stayed with smith we might
have batted out the day and cut down indias lead, cos i think Smith was
so in the zone. it really was the reverse of leeds, this time england
tail collapsed.

[i spliced your comment from another post]

Neither Woakes nor Stoked bowled many overs yesterday (Thursday). The
report in my newspaper speculated that it was an attempt to keep them reasonably fresh ahead of the Lord's Test. That Tongue was given a heavy workload, with lots of bowling short, suggests that he won't play at
Lord's. With Carse unlikely to be fit, that suggests that the quicks for
the next Test will be Woakes, Archer and Atkinson if ready, and Stokes.

England have struggled to take wkts with the new ball, woakes bowled
well on the first day without luck, but he looked pretty tired today,
whereas Siraj and akash took 8 wkts with 2 new balls. When you consider
that neither Carse, Woakes or stokes have played more than a couple of
matches this season, replacing Carse or Tongue with Archer whos bowled
only 18 overs, seems like hope over experience.

I cant see england bowling out india tomorrow, weather permitting, and
i'm guessing that the Sman will want to leave england close to 500, so
try to get another 250 by tea or just after, theyr going at quite a rate already.

mike

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <c5474007589a5a7d5df94f0a04511af9@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes
<snip>

England have struggled to take wkts with the new ball, woakes bowled
well on the first day without luck, but he looked pretty tired today,
whereas Siraj and akash took 8 wkts with 2 new balls.

Yes. I thought that India's success with the second new ball might have
been due to the earlier sunshine having changed to overcast conditions,
with the floodlights on. But when England bowled immediately afterwards,
if anything they were even more toothless with the second new ball than
they had been with the first. The contrast with India's new ball bowling
was alarming, even in the absence of Bumrah.

When you consider
that neither Carse, Woakes or stokes have played more than a couple of >matches this season, replacing Carse or Tongue with Archer whos bowled
only 18 overs, seems like hope over experience.

Well it looks like they will have to replace Carse with /someone/, as he
seems unlikely to be fit, so one of Archer, Atkinson, Cook or Jamie
Overton will have to play, and none has bowled recently.

I cant see england bowling out india tomorrow, weather permitting, and
i'm guessing that the Sman will want to leave england close to 500, so
try to get another 250 by tea or just after, theyr going at quite a
rate
already.

Given England's habit of chasing down unlikely targets, Gill's
declaration seems unlikely to be too adventurous. But since India are
one down and there's a risk of losing some time to rain, I think he may
settle for a lead of 450.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 8:58:01 +0000, John Hall wrote:

In message <c5474007589a5a7d5df94f0a04511af9@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes
<snip>

England have struggled to take wkts with the new ball, woakes bowled
well on the first day without luck, but he looked pretty tired today, >>whereas Siraj and akash took 8 wkts with 2 new balls.

Yes. I thought that India's success with the second new ball might have
been due to the earlier sunshine having changed to overcast conditions,
with the floodlights on. But when England bowled immediately afterwards,
if anything they were even more toothless with the second new ball than
they had been with the first. The contrast with India's new ball bowling
was alarming, even in the absence of Bumrah.

Yes it really is. Last summer most of the wkts gave some assistance to
the bowlers and woakes and Atkinson did well, but on wkts like these as
u say, we're lacking.

When you consider
that neither Carse, Woakes or stokes have played more than a couple of >>matches this season, replacing Carse or Tongue with Archer whos bowled
only 18 overs, seems like hope over experience.

Well it looks like they will have to replace Carse with /someone/, as he seems unlikely to be fit, so one of Archer, Atkinson, Cook or Jamie
Overton will have to play, and none has bowled recently.

thats the way england seem to like it. they dont want bowlers to play in
the CC once in the england squad. or batters either, in bethels case.

I cant see england bowling out india tomorrow, weather permitting, and
i'm guessing that the Sman will want to leave england close to 500, so
try to get another 250 by tea or just after, theyr going at quite a
rate
already.

Given England's habit of chasing down unlikely targets, Gill's
declaration seems unlikely to be too adventurous. But since India are
one down and there's a risk of losing some time to rain, I think he may settle for a lead of 450.

well its over 400 already thanks to pant, the short ball tactic not
working again. I think crawley dropped him early on, so it really is
leeds in reverse. India deserve to win this test, becos theyve been
superior in every way, cant entirely praise the Sman for his captaincy
but certainly he leads by example.

mike
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/5/2025 1:58 AM, John Hall wrote:

In message <c5474007589a5a7d5df94f0a04511af9@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes
<snip>

England have struggled to take wkts with the new ball, woakes bowled
well on the first day without luck, but he looked pretty tired today,
whereas Siraj and akash took 8 wkts with 2 new balls.

Yes. I thought that India's success with the second new ball might have
been due to the earlier sunshine having changed to overcast conditions,
with the floodlights on. But when England bowled immediately afterwards,
if anything they were even more toothless with the second new ball than
they had been with the first. The contrast with India's new ball bowling
was alarming, even in the absence of Bumrah.

When you consider
that neither Carse, Woakes or stokes have played more than a couple of
matches this season, replacing Carse or Tongue with Archer whos bowled
only 18 overs, seems like hope over experience.

Well it looks like they will have to replace Carse with /someone/, as he seems unlikely to be fit, so one of Archer, Atkinson, Cook or Jamie
Overton will have to play, and none has bowled recently.

I cant see england bowling out india tomorrow, weather permitting, and
i'm guessing that the Sman will want to leave england close to 500, so
try to get another 250 by tea or just after, theyr going at quite a rate
already.

Given England's habit of chasing down unlikely targets, Gill's
declaration seems unlikely to be too adventurous. But since India are
one down and there's a risk of losing some time to rain, I think he may settle for a lead of 450.

450 WON'T be enough for India to defend.

This England team is CAPABLE of chasing 450 in full day tomorrow and
another hour+ today on this relatively benign pitch.


Like I said yesterday India is setting a target of 500+ and completely ELIMINATE England WIN possibility in this test.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 04/07/2025 18:41, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

On 7/2/2025 12:20 PM, John Hall wrote:

In message <6fe4f959c84b53909bf201e62778fe7c@www.novabbs.org>, miked
<dmike2004@gmail.com> writes

So India do rest Bumrah, replaced by Akash Deep, Sudharson and Thakur
out, Reddy and Sundar in. And Stokes puts india in. Again. Hes got a 1
track mind. No doubt the statsguru told him to do it, but England got
lucky in the last match; surely india wont drop so many catches again,
and having picked 2 spinners, they prob wanted to bat first anyway.

mike

Edgbaston seems to be like Headingley, in that in recent years there's
been little or no deterioration in the pitch during the game.
Apparently the last four Tests there have been won by the side batting
second. And of course England believe they can chase down almost any
score in the fourth innings.

Considering the pitch and their lack of luck with "umpire's call"
decisions, England had a reasonable day. With an almost brand new
ball, if they can break the overnight partnership early on they will
hope to limit India to about 400.

I think the umpires calls evened out with a couple of England batsmen getting them in their favor.

Just the one (that was reviewed, at least) - Brook in the 10th over. The
2nd unsuccessful review, against Brook in the 76th over, was missing.
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 04/07/2025 17:52, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-edgbaston- boundary-size-bazball-icc-rules-india-affect-10105439/

IND vs ENG: Have England shortened Edgbaston boundary dimensions for
Bazball advantage?

If they did, it doesn't seem to have worked ...

How did the boundary dimensions affect India while batting?

While the overall make-up of the conditions and the flatbed pitch helped India put on 587 in 151 overs, India were dealt a minor blow when star batter Rishabh Pant’s miscalculation of the shortened boundaries ended with his dismissal off off-spinner Shoaib Bashir. After cracking one maximum, Pant attempted another swing over the distinctly smaller wide long-on boundary, but holed out to Zak Crawley, the celebrations of
which suggested a plan had worked out to disrupt the batter’s instincts.

... and to try to blame it for Pant's dismissal seems a bit much.
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <mct35oFrej1U2@mid.individual.net>, David North <nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes

On 04/07/2025 17:52, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-edgbaston- >>boundary-size-bazball-icc-rules-india-affect-10105439/
IND vs ENG: Have England shortened Edgbaston boundary dimensions for >>Bazball advantage?

If they did, it doesn't seem to have worked ...

Indeed. Assuming that the ground dimensions did not infringe the
regulations, then it's hard to see anything wrong with it. After all,
home sides frequently try to produce pitches that will suit their
bowling, which is surely like to influences matches far more, and yet
it's generally accepted.

How did the boundary dimensions affect India while batting?
While the overall make-up of the conditions and the flatbed pitch
helped India put on 587 in 151 overs, India were dealt a minor blow
when star batter Rishabh Pant’s miscalculation of the shortened >>boundaries ended with his dismissal off off-spinner Shoaib Bashir.
After cracking one maximum, Pant attempted another swing over the >>distinctly smaller wide long-on boundary, but holed out to Zak
Crawley, the celebrations of which suggested a plan had worked out to >>disrupt the batter’s instincts.

... and to try to blame it for Pant's dismissal seems a bit much.

Indeed. I'm sure that Pant and Jaiswal in particular would have been
delighted with the short boundaries.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <686dfce9-5337-43e0-8294-009c017a7a82@america.com>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer <FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com>
writes

On 7/5/2025 1:58 AM, John Hall wrote:

<snip>

Given England's habit of chasing down unlikely targets, Gill's >>declaration seems unlikely to be too adventurous. But since India are
one down and there's a risk of losing some time to rain, I think he
may settle for a lead of 450.

450 WON'T be enough for India to defend.

This England team is CAPABLE of chasing 450 in full day tomorrow and
another hour+ today on this relatively benign pitch.

Like I said yesterday India is setting a target of 500+ and completely >ELIMINATE England WIN possibility in this test.

Perhaps 500 would have been justifiable, though the highest-ever
successful run-chase in Tests is 418, but 600 seems excessively
cautious, especially considering how well Siraj and Deep had bowled with
the new ball in the first innings (far better than England bowled with
it in either innings), and that India are one down in the series. The
weather has turned unsettled, and it's far from impossible that a
session might be lost to rain tomorrow. If England finish nine down,
Gambhir and Gill will face a lot of flak, and I think it would be
justified.

Gill's batting and Deep's and Siraj's new-ball bowling have been superb
in this match, and India have been so dominant that if England are saved
by the weather tomorrow rather than by their own efforts with the bat it
would seem very unjust.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <ye$4zsABqBaoFwcd@jhall_nospamxx.co.uk>, John Hall <john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> writes

In message <mcqe4mFe1ndU2@mid.individual.net>, David North ><nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so >>>> if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always
had even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a
heap, hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to >>include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in
the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on
332 for the 8th wicket.

And according to Sky, unsurprisingly it was also the highest Test
innings to include six ducks. Stokes followed his vice-captain in
getting a first-baller, yet another odd incident in what was a bizarre
day.

Brook and Smith's 303 was England's highest sixth-wicket partnership
against India, and Smith's 184* was the highest innings by an England >keeper, beating Alec Stewart's 173. (Stewart also has a 190 to his
credit, but in that Test he wasn't keeping wicket.)

Given how mentally and physically tired Smith must have been after his >innings, I wondered if Pope might keep wicket this evening, but Smith
did it and no chances came his way, so his day didn't end in the
anticlimax of dropping one, which would have been a shame.

One other statistical thing: apparently Smith's score was the highest
ever made by an England number 7, beating Ranjitsinhji's 175 back in the 1890s. I wondered why Ranji batted so low in the order, but Wikipedia
tells me: "...shortly before the Test series was due to begin,
Ranjitsinhji fell ill with quinsy and would have been unfit for the
first Test but for heavy rain which postponed the start for three days.
When the match began, Ranjitsinhji batted towards the end of the first
day and, still weak from his illness, played carefully; he was exhausted
after scoring 39 not out. The next morning, as England lost wickets, he attacked the bowlers and took his score to 175, scoring mainly from cuts
and leg glances."
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 18:32:09 +0000, John Hall wrote:

Perhaps 500 would have been justifiable, though the highest-ever
successful run-chase in Tests is 418, but 600 seems excessively
cautious, especially considering how well Siraj and Deep had bowled with
the new ball in the first innings (far better than England bowled with
it in either innings), and that India are one down in the series. The
weather has turned unsettled, and it's far from impossible that a
session might be lost to rain tomorrow. If England finish nine down,
Gambhir and Gill will face a lot of flak, and I think it would be
justified.

Gill's batting and Deep's and Siraj's new-ball bowling have been superb
in this match, and India have been so dominant that if England are saved
by the weather tomorrow rather than by their own efforts with the bat it would seem very unjust.

from the forcast i've seen i dont think the weather will save england,
just a few showers in the morning and then cloudy thereafter which might
make batting more difficult even with the lights on. more concerning is
that according to Trescothick england wont bat to save the game. theres
no way they could score 600 even in fine weather on a flat pitch, so
this attitude is bizarre. Theyve been in the field for 234 overs, their
bowlers are shot, and even fine fielders like pope were missing catches
through tiredness. Theyve been defeated by their own tactics and India
have taken advantage superbly, but dont expect england to alter course.

There was a suggestion that Root was bowled by a no ball which the
officials missed. Could a batter ask for a review even if hes been
bowled, theres no way root could have known of course.

mike
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 05/07/2025 23:51, miked wrote:

There was a suggestion that Root was bowled by a no ball which the
officials missed.

The question was about the back foot. Apparently, when the foot first
landed, the contact with the ground was entirely within the return
crease, so although the heel later touched the ground on/outside the
return crease, it was legal.

Could a batter ask for a review even if hes been
bowled, theres no way root could have known of course.

Yes, "A player may request a review of any decision taken by the
on-field umpires concerning whether or not a batter is dismissed, with
the exception of ‘Timed Out’".
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 05/07/2025 19:20, John Hall wrote:

In message <mct35oFrej1U2@mid.individual.net>, David North <nospam@lane- farm.fsnet.co.uk> writes

On 04/07/2025 17:52, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-
edgbaston- boundary-size-bazball-icc-rules-india-affect-10105439/
 IND vs ENG: Have England shortened Edgbaston boundary dimensions for
Bazball advantage?

If they did, it doesn't seem to have worked ...

Indeed. Assuming that the ground dimensions did not infringe the regulations, then it's hard to see anything wrong with it.

... apart from "19.1.3 The aim shall be to maximize the size of the
playing area at each venue."

https://images.icc-cricket.com/image/upload/prd/lm8owaz03i86m1eneb7m.pdf
--
David North
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/5/2025 9:45 AM, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 17:52, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/ind-vs-eng-edgbaston-
boundary-size-bazball-icc-rules-india-affect-10105439/

IND vs ENG: Have England shortened Edgbaston boundary dimensions for
Bazball advantage?

If they did, it doesn't seem to have worked ...

How did the boundary dimensions affect India wile batting?

While the overall make-up of the conditions and the flatbed pitch
helped India put on 587 in 151 overs, India were dealt a minor blow
when star batter Rishabh Pant’s miscalculation of the shortened
boundaries ended with his dismissal off off-spinner Shoaib Bashir.
After cracking one maximum, Pant attempted another swing over the
distinctly smaller wide long-on boundary, but holed out to Zak
Crawley, the celebrations of which suggested a plan had worked out to
disrupt the batter’s instincts.

... and to try to blame it for Pant's dismissal seems a bit much.

Yes, the columnist got carried away trying to blame Pant's catch out to
short boundaries.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/5/2025 11:32 AM, John Hall wrote:

In message <686dfce9-5337-43e0-8294-009c017a7a82@america.com>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer <FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> writes

On 7/5/2025 1:58 AM, John Hall wrote:

<snip>

 Given England's habit of chasing down unlikely targets, Gill's
declaration seems unlikely to be too adventurous. But since India are
one down and there's a risk of losing some time to rain, I think he
may  settle for a lead of 450.

450 WON'T be enough for India to defend.

This England team is CAPABLE of chasing 450 in full day tomorrow and
another hour+ today on this relatively benign pitch.


Like I said yesterday India is setting a target of 500+ and completely
ELIMINATE England WIN possibility in this test.

Perhaps 500 would have been justifiable, though the highest-ever
successful run-chase in Tests is 418, but 600 seems excessively
cautious, especially considering how well Siraj and Deep had bowled with
the new ball in the first innings (far better than England bowled with
it in either innings), and that India are one down in the series. The weather has turned unsettled, and it's far from impossible that a
session might be lost to rain tomorrow. If England finish nine down,
Gambhir and Gill will face a lot of flak, and I think it would be
justified.

Gill's batting and Deep's and Siraj's new-ball bowling have been superb
in this match, and India have been so dominant that if England are saved
by the weather tomorrow rather than by their own efforts with the bat it would seem very unjust.

A target of 550 is more than enough to remove England's win possibility
out of the EQUATION but the thought process of Indian team management is
to NOT leave more than an hour for England to bat on Day 4 evening to
keep the ball "relatively NEW' for Indian bowlers to take advantage of
the remaining shine on Day 5 morning.

Trust me, this England team is capable of CHASING 500 and winning the
test IF they have two hours on Day 4 and another 6 hours on Day 5.

120 on Day 4 and another 380 on Day 5 is within the realm of possibility
for an England win.

History of 418 being the highest target ever chased is irrelevant for
these "REFINED bazballers".




--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

Rain has stopped, does this delay get added onto the hours of play, that
is can they play until 7.30pm ish or later

mike
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 11:21:32 +0000, miked <mike@library.net> wrote:

Rain has stopped, does this delay get added onto the hours of play, that
is can they play until 7.30pm ish or later

mike

Whenever from the last hour begins only unsuitability to play stops
things, maybe.
I had to learn this stuff for the ACUS GL4 umpiring exam. Now I can
hardly remember what day it is.

max.it
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

In message <cbc5766669b4e1c9847a4a338953b95d@www.novabbs.com>, miked <mike@library.net> writes

Rain has stopped, does this delay get added onto the hours of play, that
is can they play until 7.30pm ish or later

mike

A bit irrelevant now, but I believe the regulations say that they can
make up a maximum of an hour's play that was lost.

Anyway, well done India. The most alarming thing from an England POV was
how much more potent their attack was than ours, even without Bumrah.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/6/2025 10:44 AM, John Hall wrote:

In message <cbc5766669b4e1c9847a4a338953b95d@www.novabbs.com>, miked <mike@library.net> writes

Rain has stopped, does this delay get added onto the hours of play, that
is can they play until 7.30pm ish or later

mike

A bit irrelevant now, but I believe the regulations say that they can
make up a maximum of an hour's play that was lost.

Anyway, well done India. The most alarming thing from an England POV was
how much more potent their attack was than ours, even without Bumrah.

I wonder IF Stokes and Baz will have second thoughts at Lords about
choosing to field IF they WIN the toss.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/2/2025 12:20 PM, John Hall wrote:

In message <6fe4f959c84b53909bf201e62778fe7c@www.novabbs.org>, miked <dmike2004@gmail.com> writes

So India do rest Bumrah, replaced by Akash Deep, Sudharson and Thakur
out, Reddy and Sundar in. And Stokes puts india in. Again. Hes got a 1
track mind. No doubt the statsguru told him to do it, but England got
lucky in the last match; surely india wont drop so many catches again,
and having picked 2 spinners, they prob wanted to bat first anyway.

mike

Edgbaston seems to be like Headingley, in that in recent years there's
been little or no deterioration in the pitch during the game. Apparently
the last four Tests there have been won by the side batting second. And
of course England believe they can chase down almost any score in the
fourth innings.

Considering the pitch and their lack of luck with "umpire's call"
decisions, England had a reasonable day. With an almost brand new ball,
if they can break the overnight partnership early on they will hope to
limit India to about 400.

Finally Baz ADMITTED they made a mistake of electing to bowl first after winning the toss at Edgbaston.

England team requested curators to prepare pitches which SUIT bazball.





Ben Stokes revealed on the eve of this Test that requests have been put
in for pitches that "suit what we we want to go for and how we want to
play our cricket".




McCullum admits England got the toss wrong: 'We ran second for five days'

"It's just we thought this pitch might get better to bat on as we went
through the five days but as we saw it didn't"


https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-ind-2025-mccullum-admits-england-got-the-toss-wrong-we-missed-an-opportunity-there-1493873
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/4/2025 9:34 AM, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do draws so >>> if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always had
even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap, it
hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on 332
for the 8th wicket.

Here is another one for the records since you are the resident uksc statistician.


The first two scalps gave Akash Deep a rare record. No one since the
great West Indian Michael Holding has taken down four of EnglandrCOs top
five batsmen without any assistance from the fielders.

Ben Duckett, Joe Root and Pope were bowled by Akash Deep while Brook was
out lbw.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.sport.cricket

On 7/4/2025 9:58 AM, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 17:34, David North wrote:

On 04/07/2025 16:53, David North wrote:

On 03/07/2025 22:28, miked wrote:

Now if India dont drop their chances, they
should win weather permitting, becos as we know england dont do
draws so
if they have no chance of winning they usually collapse in a heap.

When they have had "no chance" of winning, they have almost always
had even less chance of drawing, so if they have collapsed in a heap,
it hasn't had much to do with not doing draws.

As Andy Zaltzman has just confirmed, 407 is the lowest Test total to
include a 300 partnership. The previous lowest was England's 446 in
the infamous 2010 Lord's Test v Pakistan, when Trott and Broad put on
332 for the 8th wicket.

It is also the lowest to include two 150+ scores.

Is this Edgbaston test itself a RECORD for BREAKING SO MANY RECORDS of batting, bowling and scores?

India is the FIRST ASIAN TEAM to beat England at Edgbaston in tests.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2