| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 23 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 50:12:45 |
| Calls: | 583 |
| Files: | 1,138 |
| Messages: | 111,313 |
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick,
they will be made well. But for me prayer seems very much hit and
miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not. Is it purely
random?
* John <1086uav$ssga$3@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Thu, 21 Aug 2025 12:01:51 +0100:
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick,
they will be made well. But for me prayer seems very much hit and
miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not. Is it purely
random?
If it were indistinguishable from a random process, what would that mean
to you in your theology?
I've seen a video clip this morning in which a Judge in America asked
for prayers after becoming seriously ill.-a Apparently he rallied but
then relapsed and the video clip shows him thanking people for their previous prayers asking for further prayers.-a Sadly he has now died.
A few weeks ago a friend of mines daughter gave birth prematurely to a
boy who became seriously ill with sepsis and kidney failure.-a The friend (who isn't a believer) asked her social network for any help from
whatever they believed in as the baby battled for his life.
Miraculous, the baby survived and has now been allowed home.
I'm curious, what allowed the baby to survive (who's family don't
believe in God) but not the Judge (who I think did)?
(The Judge was 88, which is a good age, but see below)
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick, they
will be made well.-a But for me prayer seems very much hit and miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not.-a Is it purely random?
I'm curious, what allowed the baby to survive (who's family don't
believe in God) but not the Judge (who I think did)?
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick, theyCuriously the verse on which I think you are relying merely says "And
will be made well.-a But for me prayer seems very much hit and miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not.-a Is it purely random?
So, healing is from an eternal perspective, rather than from our
temporal perspective. We just don't have anything like the full picture.
On 21/08/2025 12:01, John wrote:
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick,
they will be made well.-a But for me prayer seems very much hit and
miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not.-a Is it purely random?
I think God hears our prayers. I think God answers prayers. However, God
is God and will act according to His will. If prayers for healing always 'worked', then there would be a few people wandering around who were
several centuries old!
My prayers therefore often are less specific, asking that the Lord will comfort the person, and heal them 'According to His will'. Healing, from God's eternal perspective, may well mean not so much preservation of
life in this world, but rather, in whatever comes next.
There is also a Catholic tradition of praying 'For a good death'. That
is, a peaceful one with minimal suffering. The 'Hail Mary' petitions
Mary to join us in prayer now, and at the hour of our death.
So, healing is from an eternal perspective, rather than from our
temporal perspective. We just don't have anything like the full picture.
On 21/08/2025 12:01, John wrote:
I'm curious, what allowed the baby to survive (who's family don't
believe in God) but not the Judge (who I think did)?
So life followed its natural course: an old man died - as God has
ordained that all will die in the end - and a young child responded to treatment and lived. No supernatural involvement was necessary and very likely none was provided.
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick,Curiously the verse on which I think you are relying merely says "And
they will be made well.-a But for me prayer seems very much hit and
miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not.-a Is it purely random?
the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him
up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." In other words, the emphasis is on salvation, not on physical healing.
However a little logical thinking will show the folly of your position.
1. God has ordained that all shall die. If every sick person was automatically healed as soon as prayer was offered, no one would ever
die and God would be defeated.
2. God sometimes uses illness as a judgement to punish the wicked or a discipline to improve the righteous. Is He likely to defeat His own ends
by instantly healing someone so afflicted?
3. Or, of course, like Job, there may be heavenly reasons why God has allowed illness. Again, will God defeat Himself by removing what He has allowed?
On 21/08/2025 19:11, Timreason wrote:
On 21/08/2025 12:01, John wrote:
The NT is quite specific that if you pray for someone who is sick,
they will be made well.-a But for me prayer seems very much hit and
miss, sometimes people become well, sometimes not.-a Is it purely random? >>>
I think God hears our prayers. I think God answers prayers. However,
God is God and will act according to His will. If prayers for healing
always 'worked', then there would be a few people wandering around who
were several centuries old!
My prayers therefore often are less specific, asking that the Lord
will comfort the person, and heal them 'According to His will'.
Healing, from God's eternal perspective, may well mean not so much
preservation of life in this world, but rather, in whatever comes next.
There is also a Catholic tradition of praying 'For a good death'. That
is, a peaceful one with minimal suffering. The 'Hail Mary' petitions
Mary to join us in prayer now, and at the hour of our death.
So, healing is from an eternal perspective, rather than from our
temporal perspective. We just don't have anything like the full picture.
Partly true, but my reading of the bible suggests that when you ask for something in Jesus name (with altristic reasons of course) then you receive.-a It also says that God answers the prayers of true believers.
My observation over many years is that it's pretty much a lottery.
On 22/08/2025 08:44, John wrote:
Partly true, but my reading of the bible suggests that when you ask
for something in Jesus name (with altristic reasons of course) then
you receive.-a It also says that God answers the prayers of true
believers.
My observation over many years is that it's pretty much a lottery.
Well, like I said, it says God answers prayers. That's of course not
quite the same thing as saying He gives us exactly what we asked for.
It's often been likened to when children ask for something, and the
parent knows that what is asked for is inappropriate for some
reason. So the parent instead gives them something more suitable. Of
course, you will be as familiar as I am with analogies such as that.
We 'See as through a glass, darkly'. Indeed, we only perceive a tiny
part of 'reality'. We are only capable of perceiving within the
context of a limited framework. The deeper science delves, the
stranger and more baffling the universe becomes to us. Again, the
popular analogy is we are looking at a tapestry from the reverse side,
and only seeing random strands and knots, and if we were able to see
(and comprehend) it in its fullness, it would then make sense.
So why does Auntie Gladys (a hypothetical person) suffer years of pain
and hurt, ending in her death, despite all the prayers offered for her healing? I don't know. Nor does anyone. Why was Uncle John (seemingly miraculously) healed after one prayer, and yet Auntie Gladys was not?
Again, I don't know.
But nevertheless I still trust in God. He sees the tapestry in its
fullness.
Partly true, but my reading of the bible suggests that when you ask for something in Jesus name (with altristic reasons of course) then you receive.-a It also says that God answers the prayers of true believers.
On 23/08/2025 09:00, John wrote:
Surely in this situation God's will would have been for Albert to
remain on the dole, given that's where he ended back up a fortnight
later.
Or possibly the experience you describe was good for him in some way?
Was it?-a For Albert it was the last straw in a string of events which weakened him as a Christian, and he gave up on it after that.
Which is a totally glib comment and almost certainly wrong. I don't
know the answer to the question you pose, but I do know that God
answers prayer.
I believe I have been the victim of imprecatory prayer (by catholics) on
more than a few occasions.
I'm sure the prayer was addressed through
some saint and not to God directly, but they were nevertheless answered.
If I am to be eventually reconciled with God, I can accept that GodIf He did, it was so that you could learn from the events. As I say,
permitted those prayers to be granted but cannot accept that God
directly answered those prayers.