From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

"Indologist" posters may be interested in this opinion piece from a
columnist in today's newspaper (tbh: we only get it on sunday, and we
are not proud to buy it)

https://www.newindianexpress.com/columns/2025/Jul/20/vegetarianism-is-not-about-the-environment-but-about-caste

The article has nothing to do with Christianity (in UK or elsewhere), or
health issues. But it cites examples from current and historical indian culture and shows how an honest good intentioned vegetarian movement can
be subverted by satan for the "benefits" of society.

"And everyone knows this has nothing to do with saving the
environment and everything to do with casterCoestablishing caste
hegemony and the domination of the mercantile communities and
their priests, who control all the resources, consume nature on
a vast scale, but pretend to be non-violent simply by eating
vegetarian food."

-- Devdutt Pattanaik (Vegetarianism is not about
Environment but about caste. New Indian.Express Sunday
2025-07-27

(Note this works in India but not in the West. There are analogous
processes in the west.) But if the conclusion is valid, it would justify
Paul's condemnation of vegetarianism and vegetarianist advocacy,
especially if Paul had cotttoned on to the phenomeon in his time.



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

* In <m3ms8py4tu.fsf@leonis4.robolove.meer.net> :
I wrote on Sun, 27 Jul 2025 22:00:05 +0530:

"Indologist" posters may be interested in this opinion piece from a
columnist in today's newspaper (tbh: we only get it on sunday, and we

^^^^

are not proud to buy it)

https://www.newindianexpress.com/columns/2025/Jul/20/vegetarianism-is-not-about-the-environment-but-about-caste

This was last week's paper. (sigh)




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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 27/07/2025 17:30, Madhu wrote:

The article has nothing to do with Christianity (in UK or elsewhere), or health issues.

At least you're honest about it.

(Note this works in India but not in the West. There are analogous
processes in the west.) But if the conclusion is valid, it would justify Paul's condemnation of vegetarianism and vegetarianist advocacy,
especially if Paul had cotttoned on to the phenomeon in his time.

I am not aware that St Paul condemned vegetarianism. His discussion had
to do with "meat sacrificed to idols", not to meat per se. As virtually
all animals were killed in the name of one god or another, someone with
an overly sensitive conscience might indeed restrict his diet to
vegetables (or "herbs"). Paul seemed impatient - condescending at best -
with such scruples.

The idea of vegetarianism for health was not his concern, nor am I sure
it would have been possible back then.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
--
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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2025 06:20, Madhu wrote:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/columns/2025/Jul/20/vegetarianism-is-not-about-the-environment-but-about-caste

An interesting article, however I would take issue with its assertion
that vegetarians "kill plants". The diet God originally gave to Adam and
Eve involved seed-bearing plants and, presumably, it was the seeds which
were to be eaten rather than the plants themselves.

Picking an apple off the tree in my backyard does not kill the plant.
Indeed, if I wished to be entirely scrupulous, I could restrict myself
to the apples which have naturally fallen from the tree! The same
comments could apply to tomatoes, string beans and spinach.

I agree that potatoes, carrots and possibly peanuts (I am not
sufficiently familiar with peanut cultivation) involves the death of the plant. I may be wrong, but I would regard killing a carrot as less
harmful than killing a lamb.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

* "Kendall K. Down" <106743h$221gi$5@dont-email.me> :
Wrote on Mon, 28 Jul 2025 07:07:48 +0100:

(Note this works in India but not in the West. There are analogous
processes in the west.) But if the conclusion is valid, it would justify
Paul's condemnation of vegetarianism and vegetarianist advocacy,
especially if Paul had cotttoned on to the phenomeon in his time.

I am not aware that St Paul condemned vegetarianism. His discussion
had to do with "meat sacrificed to idols", not to meat per se. As
virtually all animals were killed in the name of one god or another,
someone with an overly sensitive conscience might indeed restrict his
diet to vegetables (or "herbs"). Paul seemed impatient - condescending
at best - with such scruples.

1Tim 4:1-5 indicates the nature of the heresies. It includes 'commanding
to abstain from meats'. This may seem directed at Kashrut but it is in
fact more general. (The earlier example cited is "forbidding to marry",
not just certain marry certain folks but forbidding marriage altogether
sets the stage). Now "meats" in the OT is a general term not
necessarily animal meat, but Paul is denoting instructions that forbid
"class actions" that are satanic in origin. Modern vegetarianism, in
the form of advocacy an and propaganda campaign fits.

If Paul says "do not eat meat sacrificed to idols" he would fall into
the same category he is criticising, but he's not doing that in this
passage, it isn't about talking about that here.

The idea of vegetarianism for health was not his concern, nor am I
sure it would have been possible back then.

he recommends mixing wine with water for health in that epistle.



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From Newsgroup: uk.religion.christian

On 28/07/2025 10:43, Madhu wrote:

1Tim 4:1-5 indicates the nature of the heresies. It includes 'commanding
to abstain from meats'. This may seem directed at Kashrut but it is in
fact more general.

It is indeed, for in that verse - as you noted - the word translated
"meats" does not necessarily refer to dead animals but is food in
general. In addition, the "food" is qualified by "which God has created
to be received with thanksgiving" and it could be argued that God did
not create animals to be eaten. He permitted animals to be eaten, but it
was only "every seed-bearing plant" which was *created* to be eaten.

Nevertheless, throughout his writings, Paul's culinary concerns are
always "food offered to idols" and, more generally, the idea that an
action - any action - can make you more pleasing to God.

In that I completely agree with Paul. Vegetarianism does not bring you
one inch closer to salvation.

he recommends mixing wine with water for health in that epistle.

Which was standard practice in the ancient world. Only the most
dissolute drank unmixed wine.

God bless,
Kendall K. Down
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