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Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com> wrote:NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Air Force One?
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
Graham. wrote:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
If it helps persuade El Tangerino to whittle something off steel or
whisky gnevssf, I guess why not?
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com> wrote:NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Air Force One?
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something very unkind >about the UK after his last visit there?
In article <10aejre$h5tn$1@solani.org>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Wed, 17 Sep 2025 at 15:24:30 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com> wrote: >>>>>NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to >>>>> the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Air Force One?
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something very unkind
about the UK after his last visit there?
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good side, and done him
favours find that the good side has become the bad side. Never trust a transactional bully.
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Graham. <usenet@yopmail.com> writes:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
In the pic I saw [1] the PW appears to be wearing a black frock coat
and black, (AFAICT) not-striped trousers. OTOH, HM is wearing a
business suit of a (perhaps?) unbusinesslike not-quite-IKB shade of
blue.
What can I infer from this? Subtlties of British formal dress
protocol are often missed by us Leftpondians, even in HM Leftpondia.
[1] https://www.rawstory.com/media-library/catherine-princess-of-wales-prince-william-prince-of-wales-first-lady-melania-trump-u-s-president-donald-trump-king-charl.jpg?id=61613208&width=1200&height=800
On 2025-09-18, Mike Spencer wrote:
Graham. <usenet@yopmail.com> writes:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
In the pic I saw [1] the PW appears to be wearing a black frock coat
and black, (AFAICT) not-striped trousers. OTOH, HM is wearing a
business suit of a (perhaps?) unbusinesslike not-quite-IKB shade of
blue.
What can I infer from this? Subtlties of British formal dress
protocol are often missed by us Leftpondians, even in HM Leftpondia.
[1] https://www.rawstory.com/media-library/catherine-princess-of-wales-prince-william-prince-of-wales-first-lady-melania-trump-u-s-president-donald-trump-king-charl.jpg?id=61613208&width=1200&height=800
At least they are not wearing military uniforms, I recall some
events where the royals wear costumes that resemble colonel Gadaffi
(sp) on Spitting Image. -- Simon
RLU: 222126
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 2025-09-18, Mike Spencer wrote:
Graham. <usenet@yopmail.com> writes:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to >>>>the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
In the pic I saw [1] the PW appears to be wearing a black frock coat
and black, (AFAICT) not-striped trousers. OTOH, HM is wearing a
business suit of a (perhaps?) unbusinesslike not-quite-IKB shade of
blue.
What can I infer from this? Subtlties of British formal dress
protocol are often missed by us Leftpondians, even in HM Leftpondia.
[1] >>>https://www.rawstory.com/media-library/catherine-princess-of-wales-prince-william-prince-of-wales-first-lady-melania-trump-u-s-president-donald-trump-king-charl.jpg?id=61613208&width=1200&height=800
At least they are not wearing military uniforms, I recall some
events where the royals wear costumes that resemble colonel Gadaffi
(sp) on Spitting Image. -- Simon
Ha! Yeah.
But DJT is saluting. He is officially the Commander in Chief of the US >military forces but AIU US military courtesy, you only salute when in >uniform. He should be using the same gesture that his wife is. I
surmise that he's vividly imagining that he's wearing a Gadaffi-like
uniform with ribbons^H^H^H^H^H^H^H medals, sword & full regalia.
I infer (although the photo caption doesn't say so) that they were
playing the US national anthem at that moment.)
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
SimonJ writes:
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 2025-09-18, Mike Spencer wrote:
At least they are not wearing military uniforms, I recall some events
Graham. <usenet@yopmail.com> writes:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to
the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
In the pic I saw [1] the PW appears to be wearing a black frock coat
and black, (AFAICT) not-striped trousers. OTOH, HM is wearing a
business suit of a (perhaps?) unbusinesslike not-quite-IKB shade of
blue.
What can I infer from this? Subtlties of British formal dress
protocol are often missed by us Leftpondians, even in HM Leftpondia.
[1]
https://www.rawstory.com/media-library/catherine-princess-of-wales- prince-william-prince-of-wales-first-lady-melania-trump-u-s-president- donald-trump-king-charl.jpg?id=61613208&width=1200&height=800
where the royals wear costumes that resemble colonel Gadaffi (sp) on
Spitting Image. -- Simon
Ha! Yeah.
But DJT is saluting. He is officially the Commander in Chief of the US military forces but AIU US military courtesy, you only salute when in uniform. He should be using the same gesture that his wife is. I
surmise that he's vividly imagining that he's wearing a Gadaffi-like
uniform with ribbons^H^H^H^H^H^H^H medals, sword & full regalia.
I infer (although the photo caption doesn't say so) that they were
playing the US national anthem at that moment.)
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
On 18/09/2025 in message <87jz1wqmi2.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> Mike
Spencer wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 2025-09-18, Mike Spencer wrote:
At least they are not wearing military uniforms, I recall some events >>>where the royals wear costumes that resemble colonel Gadaffi (sp) on >>>Spitting Image. -- Simon
Graham. <usenet@yopmail.com> writes:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to >>>>>the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
In the pic I saw [1] the PW appears to be wearing a black frock coat >>>>and black, (AFAICT) not-striped trousers. OTOH, HM is wearing a >>>>business suit of a (perhaps?) unbusinesslike not-quite-IKB shade of >>>>blue.
What can I infer from this? Subtlties of British formal dress
protocol are often missed by us Leftpondians, even in HM Leftpondia.
[1]
https://www.rawstory.com/media-library/catherine-princess-of-wales- prince-william-prince-of-wales-first-lady-melania-trump-u-s-president- donald-trump-king-charl.jpg?id=61613208&width=1200&height=800
Ha! Yeah.
But DJT is saluting. He is officially the Commander in Chief of the US >>military forces but AIU US military courtesy, you only salute when in >>uniform. He should be using the same gesture that his wife is. I
surmise that he's vividly imagining that he's wearing a Gadaffi-like >>uniform with ribbons^H^H^H^H^H^H^H medals, sword & full regalia.
I infer (although the photo caption doesn't say so) that they were
playing the US national anthem at that moment.)
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
The BBC commentary said he saluted for the UK national anthem and
clutched his chest for his own.
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
In article <10aejre$h5tn$1@solani.org>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Wed, 17 Sep 2025 at 15:24:30 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com>NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
wrote:
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals
to the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Air Force One?
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something
very unkind about the UK after his last visit there?
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon
and a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote in news:10ag421$i29j$1@solani.org:
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
In article <10aejre$h5tn$1@solani.org>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Wed, 17 Sep 2025 at 15:24:30 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com>NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
wrote:
Air Force One?
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals >>>>>>> to the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something
very unkind about the UK after his last visit there?
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and
a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
Fotunately for us we have him only for a few days. I'm sorry for the US,
who are saddled with him for another 4 years.
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote in news:10ag421$i29j$1@solani.org:
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
In article <10aejre$h5tn$1@solani.org>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Wed, 17 Sep 2025 at 15:24:30 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com>NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
wrote:
Air Force One?
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals >>>>>>> to the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something
very unkind about the UK after his last visit there?
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and
a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
Fotunately for us we have him only for a few days. I'm sorry for the US,
who are saddled with him for another 4 years.
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon
and a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
Simon said:
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and
a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
It's like Johnson - a powerful person acting the blatant dickhead and
getting away with it gives other people permission to act the dickhead
too.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
What we need is good politicians. It's a pity that's a matter of luck.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 11:03:57 -0000 (UTC), Richard Robinson wrote:
Simon said:
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and >>>> a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good
side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the bad
side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
It's like Johnson - a powerful person acting the blatant dickhead and
getting away with it gives other people permission to act the dickhead
too.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
What we need is good politicians. It's a pity that's a matter of luck.
I think it shows how shallow the US people are, their top job goes to a TV personality rather than an actual politician.
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the start
of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a less
commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can salvage the damage done by the people who have had power until now.
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
On 18/09/2025 12:54, Simon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 11:03:57 -0000 (UTC), Richard Robinson wrote:Has there ever been a good politician? There used to be complaints about
Simon said:
On 2025-09-17, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon
and a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad, today about his
unpredictability. People who believe that they have got on his good >>>>> side, and done him favours find that the good side has become the
bad side. Never trust a transactional bully.
This is why I don't understand his popularity, even outside politics,
he is just a horrible person with, as far as I know, no redeeming
qualities.
It's like Johnson - a powerful person acting the blatant dickhead and
getting away with it gives other people permission to act the dickhead
too.
Anyway good luck to the US and now the UK! :-)
What we need is good politicians. It's a pity that's a matter of luck.
I think it shows how shallow the US people are, their top job goes to a
TV personality rather than an actual politician.
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the
start of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a less
commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can salvage the
damage done by the people who have had power until now.
the "rotten boroughs" where the MP was, in effect, elected by the local landowner, so did their bidding. There was even grafitti complaining
about Roman politicians, as well as protests and withdrawal of labour to
get rid of them.
One good thing about the House of Lords used to be that it was full of
people whose main interest was keeping everyone as well off as possible
in the long run, so their families could stay rich. They were not so
worried about short term gains and making headlines, as they did not
have to get re-elected to stay rich. Now that they are mainly political appointees,this is changing.
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I seem
to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than it was
though.
On 18 Sep 2025 03:54:13 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
There used to be a Linux User Registry and we chatted in the Linux USENET groups, I keep it there in case another lost soul remembers and wants to reminisce :-)
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 18 Sep 2025 03:54:13 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
There used to be a Linux User Registry and we chatted in the Linux
USENET groups, I keep it there in case another lost soul remembers and
wants to reminisce :-)
Ummmmmm.....that sounds vaguely familiar. Lessee...[tikky-tikky... clatter-spop-dit]. Ah! LinuxCounter.li.org -- see mail archive. [Tikky-tick...] 2001-12-23 04:59:54. I am/was 252237.
I have this localhost thing, like a cardboard box full of all the
paperwork that some small, severly disorganized businesses use for a
filing system. A one-line note gets inserted in a file called SeeAlso
any time I have some bit of info that might Cummin 'Andy Sometime but
that I'm likely to forget. A local script I use to read local
documentation (that isn't in /usr/man) greps in that file for any
arbitrary key word offered, either on the comand line (sort of like apropos(1)) or if it can't find a doc referencing the key word anywhere
else. And there's my ID and PASS from LinuxCounter!
Not a lost soul. Yet. But in 2010 I gad email tellingme I'd been
removed from the registry to to inactivity, plz click here to renew. In
2015 they became LinuxCounter.hosted.phplist.com. But today the site
fails to accept my ID from 2015 email.
Ho hum.
Hi'ya 222126. How're ya doing? :-)
On 18/09/2025 3:37 pm, Simon wrote:
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I
seem to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than it
was though.
There used to be lots of them in local councils ... but they were all
Tories really, just that their campaigns weren't paid for from Party
funds. My father stood once as an 'Independent Independent' and didn't succeed because he was more to the left but everyone assumed that he
wasn't because of the word 'Independent'. After taking some advice, he
then stood as 'Non-Party' and was elected.
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the start
of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a less
commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can salvage the damage done by the people who have had power until now.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 14:53:52 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I seem
to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than it was
though.
On 18/09/2025 12:54, Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the start
of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a less
commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can salvage the
damage done by the people who have had power until now.
I was hoping that the Corbyn/Sultana party would blossom, it seems they
move at very different paces though and so it's all collapsing before it even starts to get off the ground.
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 18 Sep 2025 03:54:13 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
There used to be a Linux User Registry and we chatted in the Linux USENET >> groups, I keep it there in case another lost soul remembers and wants to
reminisce :-)
Ummmmmm.....that sounds vaguely familiar. Lessee...[tikky-tikky... clatter-spop-dit]. Ah! LinuxCounter.li.org -- see mail archive. [Tikky-tick...] 2001-12-23 04:59:54. I am/was 252237.
I have this localhost thing, like a cardboard box full of all the
paperwork that some small, severly disorganized businesses use for a
filing system. A one-line note gets inserted in a file called SeeAlso
any time I have some bit of info that might Cummin 'Andy Sometime but
that I'm likely to forget.
On a side note, given that the US has yet again vetoed a UNSC resolution
for a ceasefire in Gaza, isn't it time to remove veto power from the
five permanent members of the UNSC?
On 2025-09-18, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
On 18 Sep 2025 03:54:13 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote:
Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> writes:
RLU: 222126
What's that, then?
There used to be a Linux User Registry and we chatted in the Linux
USENET groups, I keep it there in case another lost soul remembers and
wants to reminisce :-)
Ummmmmm.....that sounds vaguely familiar. Lessee...[tikky-tikky...
clatter-spop-dit]. Ah! LinuxCounter.li.org -- see mail archive.
[Tikky-tick...] 2001-12-23 04:59:54. I am/was 252237.
I have this localhost thing, like a cardboard box full of all the
paperwork that some small, severly disorganized businesses use for a
filing system. A one-line note gets inserted in a file called SeeAlso
any time I have some bit of info that might Cummin 'Andy Sometime but
that I'm likely to forget.
I use a program called Cherrytree for that. I find it very useful.
On 18/09/2025 15:37, Simon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 14:53:52 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I
seem to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than it
was though.
There's a few. Almost all of them are former Labour politicians who
insisted on being left-wing, which is something that Starmer really
dislikes.
There was a long programme on Channel 4, "Trump v The Truth", which
could have been condensed somewhat to ditch the more trivial lies and
also seemed to be missing fact checks on some claims (eg birds being
killed by "windmills"). It did highlight what a liar he is though. In
his first term he told over 30,000 lies.
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
On 2025-09-19, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/09/2025 12:54, Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the
start of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a
less commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can
salvage the damage done by the people who have had power until now.
I was hoping that the Corbyn/Sultana party would blossom, it seems
they move at very different paces though and so it's all collapsing
before it even starts to get off the ground.
I was hopeful about Corbyn but then I heard him speaking locally and
that ended any hopes. Just another ignorant loudmouth.
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that while
Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is up, so
it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that while
Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is up, so
it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their own >country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. They see >their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Bernard Peek <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote in
news:mj51plFfhfmU1@mid.individual.net:
On 2025-09-19, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/09/2025 12:54, Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician? I suppose maybe at the
start of their career and maybe younger people who seem to have a
less commercial outlook on things. I hope the younger people can
salvage the damage done by the people who have had power until now.
I was hoping that the Corbyn/Sultana party would blossom, it seems
they move at very different paces though and so it's all collapsing
before it even starts to get off the ground.
I was hopeful about Corbyn but then I heard him speaking locally and
that ended any hopes. Just another ignorant loudmouth.
Likewise. Seemed to me that he had some excellent policies but absolutely
no idea how to sell them to the electorate. Our Tone might well disagree.
On Fri, 19 Sep 2025 10:36:36 +0100, Mike Fleming wrote:
On 18/09/2025 15:37, Simon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 14:53:52 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I
seem to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than it
was though.
There's a few. Almost all of them are former Labour politicians who
insisted on being left-wing, which is something that Starmer really
dislikes.
So they are independent due to not conforming to a party line rather than because they are not affiliated. Does it show I don't know much about
it :-)
On 19/09/2025 10:34, Mike Fleming wrote:
On a side note, given that the US has yet again vetoed a UNSC
resolution for a ceasefire in Gaza, isn't it time to remove veto power
from the five permanent members of the UNSC?
That's easy.-a Just get the five permanent members to agree to this
change and Bob's your uncle.
Is there any other way?...-a No.
In article <10am4pl$13c2d$2@dont-email.me>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid>
on Sat, 20 Sep 2025 at 11:56:37 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that while
Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is up, so
it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their own
country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. They see
their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than
it appears.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their own >>>country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. They see >>>their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than
it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
On 20/09/2025 09:38, Simon wrote:
On Fri, 19 Sep 2025 10:36:36 +0100, Mike Fleming wrote:
On 18/09/2025 15:37, Simon wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 14:53:52 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
Simon wrote:
Is there such a thing as a good politician?Not once a party gets its teeth into them ...
Is there no such thing as independent these days? When I was a kid I
seem to recall a few of them on the news. Maybe it seemed more than
it was though.
There's a few. Almost all of them are former Labour politicians who
insisted on being left-wing, which is something that Starmer really
dislikes.
So they are independent due to not conforming to a party line rather
than because they are not affiliated. Does it show I don't know much
about it :-)
There are five who stood and were elected as independents (one of them
being Jeremy Corbyn who was ejected from the "Labour" party prior to the election). Other MPs have subsequently been suspended from the party due
to having consciences and wishing to represent their constituents rather
than slavishly adhere to the party line.
On 19/09/2025 20:57, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 19/09/2025 10:34, Mike Fleming wrote:
On a side note, given that the US has yet again vetoed a UNSC
resolution for a ceasefire in Gaza, isn't it time to remove veto
power from the five permanent members of the UNSC?
That's easy. Just get the five permanent members to agree to this
change and Bob's your uncle.
Is there any other way?... No.
Alternatively, wind up the UN and replace it by something else, say something like the League of Nations, headquartered in Geneva. Get shot
of the permanent members of the security council but specify that at
least one from a shortlist of nations must be a member of the security council at any time. Possibly, the general assembly should be able to
direct the security council.
In article <10am4pl$13c2d$2@dont-email.me>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Sat, 20 Sep 2025 at 11:56:37 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that
while Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is
up, so it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their own >>country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. They
see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than
it appears.
On 20/09/2025 13:13, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
In article <10am4pl$13c2d$2@dont-email.me>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid>
on Sat, 20 Sep 2025 at 11:56:37 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and
wrote
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him, >>>>> and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that
while Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is
up, so it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their
own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than
it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than
it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>>it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision reached >and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they wanted. So >they will do it all again and again until they get the "right" result.
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that while
Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is up, so
it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
On 20/09/2025 12:56, Simon wrote:
On Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:28:32 -0000 (UTC), Peter wrote:
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote in
news:mj4mdcFdnv6U1@mid.individual.net:
It's a shame Starmer grovelled to him instead of standing up to him,
and the same for Ursula von der Leyen who capitulated on tariffs.
I imagine that Starmer and von der Leyen are keeping in mind that
while Trump has a limited term the USA will go on after that term is
up, so it's wise not to alienate half the US electorate.
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their
own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Trump supporters are very tribal - and the rest of the world plus many
of the US population do not belong to their tribe.
It isn't that they don't care about anyone outside their tribe - their feelings fall into the range between dislike and hate.
That said, grudge politics is alive and well here in the UK.
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>>own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>>They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>than it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >>accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they >>wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the
"right" result.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in theirThere can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
own
country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries.
They see
their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy.
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>> wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>> own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>> They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be
accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached
and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they wanted. So
they will do it all again and again until they get the "right" result.
Indeed-a and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you mentioned.
On 20 Sep 2025 14:37:53 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>>> own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>>> They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated
than it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>>> people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be
accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they
wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the
"right" result.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
True, I think Brexit was a good idea, it's not causing me grief directly
but friends and neighbours have yet to see anything positive from it. My
only complaint is English cheese has gone up in price to the point I am buying Dutch cheese and convincing myself it is just as good. (It's not
but it's good enough)
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming
wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>> own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>> They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the "right" result.
On 20/09/2025 14:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming
wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>> ownThere can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries.
They see
their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Like the whining and moaning that people like Farage did for 40 years
after the referendum confirming the UK as part of the EU?
The undermining of democracy was done by the liars who managed to--
convince the great uneducated to vote to leave the EU. I'm just hoping
that that stupid decision will be reversed soon. Sadly, the moron
Starmer won't do that.
On 20/09/2025 15:37, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>>>wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>>>own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>>>They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>>Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>>than
it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>>>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >>>accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision >>>reached
and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they wanted. So >>>they will do it all again and again until they get the "right" result.
Indeed-a and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you >>mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
On 20 Sep 2025 14:37:53 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike >>>>Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>>>own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>>>They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>>Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>>than it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>>>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >>>accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision >>>reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they >>>wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the
"right" result.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
True, I think Brexit was a good idea, it's not causing me grief directly
but friends and neighbours have yet to see anything positive from it. My >only complaint is English cheese has gone up in price to the point I am >buying Dutch cheese and convincing myself it is just as good. (It's not
but it's good enough)
On 20/09/2025 15:37, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>>> wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in their >>>>>>> own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries. >>>>>>> They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
Nothing Party".a Just saying.a Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>>>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating >>>> people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be
accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached
and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they wanted. So >>> they will do it all again and again until they get the "right" result.
Indeeda and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet
of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British Constitution.
People change their minds, which is one reason we have elections every
4/5 years. Why should we not have decision-making referendums outside
the electoral cycle? Scottish independence may well get a different
result now. Scottish independence may well have got a different result
had all members of the UK population been given a vote. A new Brexit referendum may have a different result now the general population have
seen the crapfest that has resulted from the last one.
Mike Fleming said:
On 20/09/2025 14:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on inThere can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign
countries. They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of >>>>>> life.
Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated
than it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Like the whining and moaning that people like Farage did for 40 years
after the referendum confirming the UK as part of the EU?
One thing I found very disturbing was the way that after putting so much effort into getting what they wanted, it turned out that they hadn't any
plan what to do about it when they got it. Irresponsible, I say.
The undermining of democracy was done by the liars who managed to
convince the great uneducated to vote to leave the EU. I'm just hoping
that that stupid decision will be reversed soon. Sadly, the moron
Starmer won't do that.
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7vhrF3drU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming wrote:
On 20/09/2025 15:37, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike >>>>>Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in >>>>>>>>their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign >>>>>>>>countries.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>>>Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>>>than it appears.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and >>>>>denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >>>>accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision >>>>reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they >>>>wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the >>>>"right" result.
Indeed-a and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you >>>mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
That was the decision to remain in the Common Market, an entirely
different kettle of fish.
On 20/09/2025 16:16, Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 14:37:53 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in >>>>>>>> their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign >>>>>>>> countries.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>>> Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>>> than it appears.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life. >>>>>>>>
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>> will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and
denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be
accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what
they wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get
the "right" result.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
True, I think Brexit was a good idea, it's not causing me grief
directly but friends and neighbours have yet to see anything positive
from it. My only complaint is English cheese has gone up in price to
the point I am buying Dutch cheese and convincing myself it is just as
good. (It's not but it's good enough)
Brexit was a dreadful idea. It's cost the UK maybe -u100bn, it's buggered
up trade between the UK and EU (the UK's biggest trading partner), it's screwed up the NI/RoI border situation, and it's led to the small boats crossing the Channel that Reform are banging on about. There have been
no upsides unless you count blue passports (printed in the EU).
On 20/09/2025 at 15:09, Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:So, now we have democratically elected a "Kier Starmer" government, we
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on inThere can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign
countries.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated
than it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be
accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision
reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they
wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the
"right" result.
should keep it till the end of time?
People change their minds, which is one reason we have elections every
4/5 years. Why should we not have decision-making referendums outside
the electoral cycle? Scottish independence may well get a different
result now. Scottish independence may well have got a different result
had all members of the UK population been given a vote. A new Brexit referendum may have a different result now the general population have
seen the crapfest that has resulted from the last one.
Sorry, too much politicks.
In article <10amgha$16f2k$2@dont-email.me>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Sat, 20 Sep 2025 at 15:16:58 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
On 20 Sep 2025 14:37:53 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:Funnily enough my favourite cheese is Manchego, which has also gone up,
On 20/09/2025 in message <10amcjk$153ue$6@dont-email.me> Simon wrote:
On 20 Sep 2025 13:42:54 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike >>>>>Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on in >>>>>>>>their own country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign >>>>>>>>countries.There can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know >>>>>>>Nothing Party". Just saying. Yes, I know it is more complicated >>>>>>>than it appears.
They see their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and >>>>>denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy.
I don't disagree, however once there has been a decision it should be >>>>accepted, looking at Scottish independence, they voted, a decision >>>>reached and yet people still keep pushing because it was not what they >>>>wanted. So they will do it all again and again until they get the >>>>"right" result.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
True, I think Brexit was a good idea, it's not causing me grief directly >>but friends and neighbours have yet to see anything positive from it. My >>only complaint is English cheese has gone up in price to the point I am >>buying Dutch cheese and convincing myself it is just as good. (It's not
but it's good enough)
but I am bearing it at the moment. I bring this up as I believe Simon
is resident in Spain?
That was the decision to remain in the Common Market, an entirely >>different kettle of fish.
Which begs the question, why are you putting fish in a kettle? Will it
still turn off when it boils?
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy.
buying Dutch cheese and convincing myself it is just as good. (It's not
but it's good enough)
The undermining of democracy was done by the liars who managed to
convince to vote to leave the EU.
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions will >>be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating people >>who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result being (IIRC) >52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was done >was far from democratic.
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC)
52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was
done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
On 21/09/2025 10:01 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC) >>>52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was done >>>was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote >>more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
'zackly. That's why leaving was democratic [1]. But the question on the >paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else. No one voted on >whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit. As 48% didn't want >to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed that everyone who voted >to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit. Given the prevalence of the 'in favour
of the Common Market but against the EU' view, that was definitely not the >case.
[1] by UK standards.
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and
denigrating-a people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC)
52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was
done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 21/09/2025 10:01 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner
it was-a done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
'zackly.-a That's why leaving was democratic [1].-a But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else.-a No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit.-a As
48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed
that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.-a Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we did the same here.
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>>>wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating-a >>>>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC) >>>52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was done >>>was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote >>more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
It wasn't the same as the voting principle for the 1979 Scottish Assembly >referendum which stipulated > 50% of votes cast plus support by at least
40% of the electorate. The Brexit referendum only had about 37% of the >electorate in support so wouldn't have passed if it had been held to the >same criteria, plus it was an advisory referendum so there was no
obligation to enact it - indeed, the result would have been overturned had >it not been advisory.
On 20/09/2025 14:42, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
I don't think the trump supporters really know what goes on inThere can be very few countries in the world that has had a "Know
their own
country let alone the ramifications of him on foreign countries.
They see
their own town/city as the b-all and end-all of life.
Nothing Party".-a Just saying.-a Yes, I know it is more complicated than >>>> it appears.
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating
people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Like the whining and moaning that people like Farage did for 40 years
after the referendum confirming the UK as part of the EU?
The undermining of democracy was done by the liars who managed to
convince the great uneducated to vote to leave the EU. I'm just hoping
that that stupid decision will be reversed soon. Sadly, the moron
Starmer won't do that.
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions
will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and
denigrating-a people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC)
52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was
done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:You are conflating "elections" and "referenda". I assume this is
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming >>>>wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>>will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and denigrating-a >>>>people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC) >>>52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was done >>>was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote >>more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
deliberate and that you do understand the important difference.
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet
of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British Constitution.
On 20/09/2025 20:35, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet
of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British Constitution.
Oh, you've swallowed the UKIP line then. It's bollocks. The EU is far
more democratic that the UK.
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> NaqerjYou are conflating "elections" and "referenda". I assume this is
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result being
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner
it was done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
deliberate and that you do understand the important difference.
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2025 20:35, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet >>> of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a
fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British
Constitution.
Oh, you've swallowed the UKIP line then. It's bollocks. The EU is far
more democratic that the UK.
So says a bad loser; in what way is an 8% majority in a referendum
not democratic?
Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
[...]
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet
of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a
fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British
Constitution.
Exactly so, and an 8% majority agree. <darfc>
So says a bad loser; in what way is an 8% majority in a referendum
not democratic?
WTF has a referendum got to do with the relative democratic levels of
the EU and the UK, and if you're talking about the Brexit referendum, it
was 52-48 which simple arithmetic makes a 4% majority. If you want to
get more accurate, the difference between leave and remain was 1.269,501
of 33,577,342 voters, or 3.7%. Just shows that even afterwards, the
Leave side can't resist lying.
On 21/09/2025 22:09, Sn!pe wrote:
Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
[...]
Indeed and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet >> of the establishment. The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would not be any loss of sovereignty. The Common Market and EU are a
fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British
Constitution.
Exactly so, and an 8% majority agree. <darfc>
See my other arithmetic. 3.7%. More Brexit lies.
On 21/09/2025 20:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> NaqerjYou are conflating "elections" and "referenda". I assume this is
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result being
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner
it was done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
deliberate and that you do understand the important difference.
In the case of the referendum about leaving the EU, the then Gibberment
were very emphatically clear that if there was one more vote cast for
either leave or remain than the other option, that would be the option
taken.
It was only after the event that we were told that the result was only advisory and that the result only marked the start of the negotiations.
Slightly later, we were told that "No deal is better than a poor deal"
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
So says a bad loser; in what way is an 8% majority in a referendum
not democratic?
WTF has a referendum got to do with the relative democratic levels of
the EU and the UK, and if you're talking about the Brexit referendum,
it was 52-48 which simple arithmetic makes a 4% majority. If you want
to get more accurate, the difference between leave and remain was
1.269,501 of 33,577,342 voters, or 3.7%. Just shows that even
afterwards, the Leave side can't resist lying.
8% more people voted to leave than voted to remain. This is
indisputable, it's the way percentages work.
I still say that you're a bad loser.
On Sun, 21 Sep 2025 22:17:39 +0100, John Williamson wrote:
In the case of the referendum about leaving the EU, the then Gibberment
were very emphatically clear that if there was one more vote cast for
either leave or remain than the other option, that would be the option
taken.
It was only after the event that we were told that the result was only
advisory and that the result only marked the start of the negotiations.
Slightly later, we were told that "No deal is better than a poor deal"
The problem from our side was there was nothing in place to replace the agreements. Food especially was held so long at the EU border it was just rubbish when it arrived.
Our Gibberments had four years to prepare. We announced we were leaving
in 2016 after the first referendum, and the agreements expired in 2020
after the General Election which, was, in effect, a second referendum. (Simplified, and ignoring the problem in Ireland which needed sorting
out before we even thought about leaving)
Instead, we only started building and staffing the new customs posts a
few weeks before they were needed.
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
'zackly.-a That's why leaving was democratic [1].-a But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else.-a No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit.-a As
48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed
that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.-a Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we did the same here.
On 21/09/2025 3:24 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
'zackly.-a That's why leaving was democratic [1].-a But the question on >>>the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else.-a No one >>>voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit.-a As 48% >>>didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed that >>>everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.-a Given the >>>prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU' >>>view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
It is nothing of the sort. I have no great affection for the EU, but did >vote remain because it seemed really really stupid to expect to be able to >unpick all that had happened since we joined [5]. If there was another >referendum I'd probably vote to stay out for exactly the same reason.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we did the >>same here.
It wasn't an election, it was a referendum. A referendum is a vote on a >single issue.
[2] and I wasn't even aware at the time of its effect on NI.
[5] See [2]
On 21/09/2025 3:24 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
'zackly.-a That's why leaving was democratic [1].-a But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else.-a No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit.-a As
48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed
that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.-a Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
It is nothing of the sort. I have no great affection for the EU, but
did vote remain because it seemed really really stupid to expect to be
able to unpick all that had happened since we joined [5]. If there was another referendum I'd probably vote to stay out for exactly the same
reason.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we didIt wasn't an election, it was a referendum. A referendum is a vote on a single issue.
the same here.
[2] and I wasn't even aware at the time of its effect on NI.
[5] See [2]
On 21/09/2025 22:09, Sn!pe wrote:
Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
[...]
Indeed-a and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you
mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet >>> of the establishment.-a The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and
would-a not be any loss of sovereignty.-a The Common Market and EU are a >>> fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British
Constitution.
Exactly so, and an 8% majority agree.-a <darfc>
See my other arithmetic. 3.7%. More Brexit lies.
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still GB competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules for
that?
On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 10:46:00 +0100, Naqerj wrote:
On 21/09/2025 3:24 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
'zackly. That's why leaving was democratic [1]. But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else. No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit. As
48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed
that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit. Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
It is nothing of the sort. I have no great affection for the EU, but
did vote remain because it seemed really really stupid to expect to be
able to unpick all that had happened since we joined [5]. If there was
another referendum I'd probably vote to stay out for exactly the same
reason.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we didIt wasn't an election, it was a referendum. A referendum is a vote on a
the same here.
single issue.
[2] and I wasn't even aware at the time of its effect on NI.
[5] See [2]
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still GB competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules for
that?
On 21/09/2025 in message <mjao99Ffit9U1@mid.individual.net> Mike Fleming wrote:
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that
decisions will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning,
and denigrating people who made that decision undermines democracy. >>>>>
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result being
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner
it was done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
It wasn't the same as the voting principle for the 1979 Scottish
Assembly referendum which stipulated > 50% of votes cast plus support
by at least 40% of the electorate. The Brexit referendum only had
about 37% of the electorate in support so wouldn't have passed if it
had been held to the same criteria, plus it was an advisory referendum
so there was no obligation to enact it - indeed, the result would have
been overturned had it not been advisory.
It wasn't held to the same criteria so that is not relevant.
All the major parties said they would honour the result so saying it was only advisory is pointless.
This is the wrong place to discuss this,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/469687054451569
is more appropriate.
On 21/09/2025 10:01 am, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC) >>> 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was
done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote
more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
'zackly. That's why leaving was democratic [1]. But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else. No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit. As 48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed that *everyone* who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit. Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
whining remainiac
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
The UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that decisions >>>> will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning, and
denigrating-a people who made that decision undermines democracy.
Troo.-a But Brexit is not a good example.-a With the result being (IIRC) >>> 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner it was
done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one vote
more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
It wasn't the same as the voting principle for the 1979 Scottish
Assembly referendum which stipulated > 50% of votes cast plus support by
at least 40% of the electorate. The Brexit referendum only had about 37%--
of the electorate in support so wouldn't have passed if it had been held
to the same criteria, plus it was an advisory referendum so there was no obligation to enact it - indeed, the result would have been overturned
had it not been advisory.
On 21/09/2025 20:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> NaqerjYou are conflating "elections" and "referenda". I assume this is
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result being
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner
it was done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
deliberate and that you do understand the important difference.
In the case of the referendum about leaving the EU, the then Gibberment
were very emphatically clear that if there was one more vote cast for
either leave or remain than the other option, that would be the option taken.
It was only after the event that we were told that the result was only advisory and that the result only marked the start of the negotiations.
Slightly later, we were told that "No deal is better than a poor deal"
I just hope that we're back in soon,
On 21/09/2025 10:42 pm, Mike Fleming wrote:
On 21/09/2025 22:09, Sn!pe wrote:
Nicholas D. Richards <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
[...]
Indeed-a and, of course, those who disagreed with Brexit which you >>>>>> mentioned.
The decision was made in 1975. Let's have some consistency here.
The British people as a whole were not given a choice, it was the bonnet >>>> of the establishment.-a The Common Market -> EU was never
enthusiastically accepted by the voting public. Ted Heath stood up in
the House of Commons and lied and told the house that there was not and >>>> would-a not be any loss of sovereignty.-a The Common Market and EU are a >>>> fundamentally undemocratic institution, more so than the then British
Constitution.
Exactly so, and an 8% majority agree.-a <darfc>
See my other arithmetic. 3.7%. More Brexit lies.
No, it's just maffs.
The majority was roughly [%] 4% of the total number of people voting,
but 8% [c] higher that the number of people voting to leave.
Percentages are like that; you should never believe them until you know
what they're a percentage of.
[c] again, roughly.
[%] The local MP here used to be called Ruffley; I've completely disunforgotten his first name 'cos every just called him Roger.
Jeff Gaines said:
whining remainiac
This is the sort of language that leads to calls to Ban Politics.
On 20 Sep 2025 18:52:48 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
That was the decision to remain in the Common Market, an entirely
different kettle of fish.
Which begs the question, why are you putting fish in a kettle? Will it
still turn off when it boils?
The threshold for the referendum should have been higher than 50%.
Because we went into it with nearly half the people not wanting it. It doesn't matter whether that's called "democracy" or not, it's still a
lot of people who didn't want what they got.
require a two thirds majority
On 22/09/2025 10:56 am, Simon wrote:
The governing body for the GB competitors is called UK Athletics!
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still
GB competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules
for that?
On 22/09/2025 at 10:56, Simon wrote:
On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 10:46:00 +0100, Naqerj wrote:Europe != EU See also: EHCR
On 21/09/2025 3:24 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj
wrote:
'zackly. That's why leaving was democratic [1]. But the question
on the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else. No
one voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit. >>>>> As 48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit
assumed that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.
Given the prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but
against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
It is nothing of the sort. I have no great affection for the EU, but
did vote remain because it seemed really really stupid to expect to be
able to unpick all that had happened since we joined [5]. If there
was another referendum I'd probably vote to stay out for exactly the
same reason.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we didIt wasn't an election, it was a referendum. A referendum is a vote on
the same here.
a single issue.
[2] and I wasn't even aware at the time of its effect on NI.
[5] See [2]
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still
GB competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules
for that?
On 21/09/2025 at 19:18, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <mjao99Ffit9U1@mid.individual.net> MikeFarcebook is never appropriate.
Fleming wrote:
On 21/09/2025 10:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aobch$1jk63$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj
wrote:
On 20/09/2025 2:42 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 20/09/2025 in message <mj7o1lFtc6sU2@mid.individual.net> Mike
Fleming wrote:
Troo. But Brexit is not a good example. With the result beingThe UK has a Know Nothing electorate. See Brexit.
If you want to live in a democracy you have to accept that
decisions will be made that you disagree with. Whining, moaning,
and denigrating people who made that decision undermines
democracy.
(IIRC) 52/48, leaving would be democratic, but leaving in the manner >>>>> it was done was far from democratic.
It followed the normal UK voting principle. If a candidate gets one
vote more than the next closest candidate he's elected. It's SOP.
It wasn't the same as the voting principle for the 1979 Scottish
Assembly referendum which stipulated > 50% of votes cast plus support
by at least 40% of the electorate. The Brexit referendum only had
about 37% of the electorate in support so wouldn't have passed if it
had been held to the same criteria, plus it was an advisory referendum
so there was no obligation to enact it - indeed, the result would have
been overturned had it not been advisory.
It wasn't held to the same criteria so that is not relevant.
All the major parties said they would honour the result so saying it
was only advisory is pointless.
This is the wrong place to discuss this,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/469687054451569
is more appropriate.
On 22/09/2025 12:29, Richard Robinson wrote:
The threshold for the referendum should have been higher than 50%.El swear, many decisions that mean a major change in the constitution of
Because we went into it with nearly half the people not wanting it. It
doesn't matter whether that's called "democracy" or not, it's still a
lot of people who didn't want what they got.
a country require a two thirds majority to pass. There is no such
requirement here. It would, for instance, only take a one vote majority
in Parliament (specifically the House of Commons) to get rid of the
current constitutional Monarchy under the current rules, and install a President. No popular vote would be necessary.
Our Gibberment said that if there was a single vote more for one of the options, that was what we would do. I'm not sure what the plan was for a
dead heat, but as the Bill required a signature from the Queen to
become law, I guess she would have had the final word.
Jeff Gaines said:
whining remainiac
This is the sort of language that leads to calls to Ban Politics.
Simon said:
On 20 Sep 2025 18:52:48 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:
That was the decision to remain in the Common Market, an entirely
different kettle of fish.
Which begs the question, why are you putting fish in a kettle? Will it
still turn off when it boils?
No, it'll whistle.
They hadn't decided on the words.
On 22/09/2025 12:29, Richard Robinson wrote:
The threshold for the referendum should have been higher than 50%.
Because we went into it with nearly half the people not wanting it. It doesn't matter whether that's called "democracy" or not, it's still a
lot of people who didn't want what they got.
El swear, many decisions that mean a major change in the constitution of
a country require a two thirds majority to pass. There is no such requirement here. It would, for instance, only take a one vote majority
in Parliament (specifically the House of Commons) to get rid of the
current constitutional Monarchy under the current rules, and install a President. No popular vote would be necessary.
Our Gibberment said that if there was a single vote more for one of the options, that was what we would do. I'm not sure what the plan was for a
dead heat, but as the Bill required a signature from the Queen to
become law, I guess she would have had the final word.
Alas, the politically incontinent have now taken the stage.
Was this not what the Shed wanted?...
In article <10aejre$h5tn$1@solani.org>, Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> on
Wed, 17 Sep 2025 at 15:24:30 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
On 2025-09-17, chrisnd@privacy.net wrote:
On 17/09/2025 10:41, Julian Macassey wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2025 21:27:47 +0100, Graham <usenet@yopmail.com> wrote: >>>>>NTM just been watching 'Trump and Circumstance' at Wnidsro!
Everyone on the Stanstead apron, even the guy giving hand signals to >>>>> the air-stairs driver, is wearing a dark formal suit.
Air Force One?
ITYM Air Farce One.
Chris
I don't remember exactly but didn't the orange moron say something very unkind
about the UK after his last visit there?
That us the biggest problem for the world, Trump is a loose cannon and a bully. He, Vance and previously Musk egg each other on.
There was an article in the Grauniad,
People who believe that they have got on his good side, and done him--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
favours find that the good side has become the bad side. Never trust a transactional bully.
On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 10:46:00 +0100, Naqerj wrote:
On 21/09/2025 3:24 pm, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 21/09/2025 in message <10aou1m$1o4id$1@dont-email.me> Naqerj wrote:
'zackly.a That's why leaving was democratic [1].a But the question on
the paper was whether we should leave the EU, nothing else.a No one
voted on whether it should have been a 'hard' or 'soft' Brexit.a As
48% didn't want to leave at all, going for a 'hard' Brexit assumed
that everyone who voted to leave wanted a 'hard' Brexit.a Given the
prevalence of the 'in favour of the Common Market but against the EU'
view, that was definitely not the case.
[1] by UK standards.
That's a whining remainiac argument.
It is nothing of the sort. I have no great affection for the EU, but
did vote remain because it seemed really really stupid to expect to be
able to unpick all that had happened since we joined [5]. If there was
another referendum I'd probably vote to stay out for exactly the same
reason.
We vote in elections then leave the winner to get on with it, we didIt wasn't an election, it was a referendum. A referendum is a vote on a
the same here.
single issue.
[2] and I wasn't even aware at the time of its effect on NI.
[5] See [2]
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still GB >competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules for >that?
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that "sang" carols and flapped every now and then. It was an awful idea that my mother thought was hilarious.
I was so glad when it broke.
On Mon, 22 Sep 2025 12:37:09 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote:
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that "sang" >> carols and flapped every now and then. It was an awful idea that my mother >> thought was hilarious.
Brenda (QE II) loved it too. She was known for her sense
of humour.
I was so glad when it broke.
I'm sure you could find another on that theives market
ebay.
I was watching the European athletics the other day and there are still GB competitors, when are they going to get round to updating the rules for
that?
They hadn't decided on the words.
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that "sang" carols and flapped every now and then. It was an awful idea that my mother thought was hilarious. I was so glad when it broke.
This is a thing I also heard from Scotspeople about their
also-50% independence vote.
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that "sang"
carols and flapped every now and then.
I was under the impression that Billy the Fish was a strip in the
notorious "VIZ" comic / magazine
Abandoned Trolley wrote:
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that
"sang"
carols and flapped every now and then.
I was under the impression that Billy the Fish was a strip in the
notorious "VIZ" comic / magazine
Yes, I think what Simon remembers was called Billy the Bass ...
They hadn't decided on the words.
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that "sang"
carols and flapped every now and then. It was an awful idea that my mother >> thought was hilarious. I was so glad when it broke.
I was under the impression that Billy the Fish was a strip in the
notorious "VIZ" comic / magazine
On 24/09/2025 12:05, Andy Burns wrote:
Abandoned Trolley wrote:
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that
"sang"
carols and flapped every now and then.
I was under the impression that Billy the Fish was a strip in the
notorious "VIZ" comic / magazine
Yes, I think what Simon remembers was called Billy the Bass ...
which would explain everything
This is a thing I also heard from Scotspeople about their
also-50% independence vote.
Which would have succeeded if they had extended the franchise south of
the border
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
On 24/09/2025 12:05, Andy Burns wrote:
Abandoned Trolley wrote:
Do you remember Billy the fish, it was a Christmas fish thing that
"sang"
carols and flapped every now and then.
I was under the impression that Billy the Fish was a strip in the
notorious "VIZ" comic / magazine
Yes, I think what Simon remembers was called Billy the Bass ...
which would explain everything
Abandoned Trolley said:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
Eurostar ?
On 24/09/2025 12:36, Richard Robinson wrote:
Abandoned Trolley said:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
Eurostar ?
Eurolocks?
On 24/09/2025 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 24/09/2025 12:36, Richard Robinson wrote:
Abandoned Trolley said:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
Eurostar ?
Eurolocks?
Eurofizz ?
Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> writes:
On 24/09/2025 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 24/09/2025 12:36, Richard Robinson wrote:
Abandoned Trolley said:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
Eurostar ?
Eurolocks?
Eurofizz ?
Is a member of the EU referred to as a Euronation?
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
On 24/09/2025 20:30, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 24/09/2025 12:36, Richard Robinson wrote:
Abandoned Trolley said:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
Eurostar ?
Eurolocks?
Eurofizz ?Eurofuzz!
On 2025-09-24, Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> wrote:
There are many more examples of 'European' entities which are not
anything to do with the European Union.
Europol ?
good example. say nothing about the war? What/which war?
