From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus error
(from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was having on
the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

I had another go at it today, as a change from tractor fettling.

Checked the canbus resistance at both the ZFE module and the ABS module,
60 ohms. Buzzed the canbus wires through - ok. Checked for shorts to
ground - none.

Using the Motoscan app I can connect to both the ZFE and the ABS
modules. With the ZFE I can turn the headlight on/off, sound the horn,
flash the indicators etc. In the ABS module I can run all the
diagnostics and run the bleed procedure.

But, if I check the inputs to the ZFE (horn button, headlight main/dip
etc.), then... nothing.

I think the ZFE is dead dammit.

Of course it's not a simple replacement because much of it is coded to
the bike. Motoscan can code some things but not all.

I've put an offer in on a module on ebay which hopefully will be
accepted and then we'll see what happens.

There's one place in Holland that claim they can repair the module, but,
they are on hols at the moment so I'll try the swap first.
--
/Simon
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus error
(from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was having on
the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

I had another go at it today, as a change from tractor fettling.

Checked the canbus resistance at both the ZFE module and the ABS module,
60 ohms. Buzzed the canbus wires through - ok. Checked for shorts to
ground - none.

Using the Motoscan app I can connect to both the ZFE and the ABS
modules. With the ZFE I can turn the headlight on/off, sound the horn,
flash the indicators etc. In the ABS module I can run all the
diagnostics and run the bleed procedure.

But, if I check the inputs to the ZFE (horn button, headlight main/dip etc.), then... nothing.

I think the ZFE is dead dammit.

Of course it's not a simple replacement because much of it is coded to
the bike. Motoscan can code some things but not all.

I've put an offer in on a module on ebay which hopefully will be
accepted and then we'll see what happens.

There's one place in Holland that claim they can repair the module, but, they are on hols at the moment so I'll try the swap first.

After ~30 years building, diagnosing and repairing unique electronic equipment, frequently without a manual, I came to the conclusion that
90% of electrical/electronic faults were actually 'mechanical' in some
way. This might have been a short to earth (as you investigated
already) but quite often they were a minor bit of corrosion on a
connector, an IC socket, or a dodgy bit of soldering - this includes
where a chip 'leg' came adrift.

So, if you haven't already, probably worth a detailed look inside your
module (with which I am completely unfamiliar <G>) using a good light
and a magnifier. Use a non-conducting probe (even a cocktail stick) to
poke about for anything that shouldn't be moving and check capacitors
for bulging and diodes for shorts and open circuits.

HTH, Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 16/07/2025 11:45, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:

After ~30 years building, diagnosing and repairing unique electronic equipment, frequently without a manual, I came to the conclusion that
90% of electrical/electronic faults were actually 'mechanical' in some way.-a This might have been a short to earth (as you investigated
already) but quite often they were a minor bit of corrosion on a
connector, an IC socket, or a dodgy bit of soldering - this includes
where a chip 'leg' came adrift.

Yep, I concur. I used to fix machines down to component level but I also
knew how those machines should work.

I've recently been watching quite a few youtubers who are very good at repairing a plethora of electronic stuff, and it's amazing what you can
find with a microsope, dvm, and a heat sensing camera. Mostly they don't
fully know how the device works, but with enough experience they know
the common items that fail (you listed most of 'em).

So, if you haven't already, probably worth a detailed look inside your module (with which I am completely unfamiliar <G>) using a good light
and a magnifier. Use a non-conducting probe (even a cocktail stick) to
poke about for anything that shouldn't be moving and check capacitors
for bulging and diodes for shorts and open circuits.

I don't think this particular module is easy to open without damaging
it. I know it's not potted.
--
/Simon

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

chrisnd @ukrm <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus error
(from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was having on
the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

[snip]

After ~30 years building, diagnosing and repairing unique electronic equipment, frequently without a manual, I came to the conclusion that
90% of electrical/electronic faults were actually 'mechanical' in some
way. This might have been a short to earth (as you investigated
already) but quite often they were a minor bit of corrosion on a
connector, an IC socket, or a dodgy bit of soldering - this includes
where a chip 'leg' came adrift.

+1, more often than not, there is some physically observable change
in the device.

So, if you haven't already, probably worth a detailed look inside your module (with which I am completely unfamiliar <G>) using a good light
and a magnifier. Use a non-conducting probe (even a cocktail stick) to
poke about for anything that shouldn't be moving and check capacitors
for bulging and diodes for shorts and open circuits.

Poking & prodding, close inspection using a bright light and a
magnifier, heat gun, freeze spray, all good for diagnosing faulty
electronics.

Per Simon's followup to this post, I have found that the best
technicians are relatively unconcerned about not having full schematics/data/theory of operation of the device being worked
on. It's one of the things that has held me back at times, wanting
to have more complete data before I dive into diagnosing a fault.

I'm curious about the ZFE module being 'coded to the bike'. Won't a
replacement from a breaker's yard need to be programmed to work with
Simon's bike? Presumably at a BMW main dealer, and you won't be able
to tell if the new module is working with the bike's CAN bus system
until that is done?

It would be really interesting to have a reference (working) bike
and a CAN bus analyzer to capture traffic to/from the ZFE module and
compare it with the ailing bike.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in
news:1058d6p$p2h9$1@dont-email.me:

chrisnd @ukrm <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus
error (from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was
having on the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

[snip]

After ~30 years building, diagnosing and repairing unique electronic
equipment, frequently without a manual, I came to the conclusion that
90% of electrical/electronic faults were actually 'mechanical' in
some way. This might have been a short to earth (as you investigated
already) but quite often they were a minor bit of corrosion on a
connector, an IC socket, or a dodgy bit of soldering - this includes
where a chip 'leg' came adrift.

+1, more often than not, there is some physically observable change
in the device.

So, if you haven't already, probably worth a detailed look inside
your module (with which I am completely unfamiliar <G>) using a good
light and a magnifier. Use a non-conducting probe (even a cocktail
stick) to poke about for anything that shouldn't be moving and check
capacitors for bulging and diodes for shorts and open circuits.

Poking & prodding, close inspection using a bright light and a
magnifier, heat gun, freeze spray, all good for diagnosing faulty electronics.

Per Simon's followup to this post, I have found that the best
technicians are relatively unconcerned about not having full schematics/data/theory of operation of the device being worked
on. It's one of the things that has held me back at times, wanting
to have more complete data before I dive into diagnosing a fault.

I worked on Xerox electronics for 12 years. Many of the designs were
froma joint Fuji Xerox place in Japan. All tech docs in Japanese.

I mostly worked on stuff newly manufactured so it was relatively easy to
find manufacturing defects on a cursory glance.

I also worked on field returns and they were a little more challenging
but often obvious what at happened.

I'm curious about the ZFE module being 'coded to the bike'. Won't a replacement from a breaker's yard need to be programmed to work with
Simon's bike? Presumably at a BMW main dealer, and you won't be able
to tell if the new module is working with the bike's CAN bus system
until that is done?

It would be really interesting to have a reference (working) bike
and a CAN bus analyzer to capture traffic to/from the ZFE module and
compare it with the ailing bike.

there's one sitting in a shed just down the road in Swindon (assuming Si
is in his UK dwelling).
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus error
(from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was having on
the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

I had another go at it today, as a change from tractor fettling.

Checked the canbus resistance at both the ZFE module and the ABS module,
60 ohms. Buzzed the canbus wires through - ok. Checked for shorts to
ground - none.

I still don't get the point of CANbus on bikes. On a BMW GS that must
weigh over a quarter of a tonne, even a kilo of wiring isn't going to
make a noticeable difference, and I'm willing to bet that the loom isn't
that much simpler anyway: you still need to fuse things like lighting,
horn, ECU and so on separately to prevent something trivial like the
horn taking out the lights or ECU.
--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote:

I still don't get the point of CANbus on bikes. On a BMW GS that must
weigh over a quarter of a tonne, even a kilo of wiring isn't going to
make a noticeable difference, and I'm willing to bet that the loom isn't that much simpler anyway: you still need to fuse things like lighting,
horn, ECU and so on separately to prevent something trivial like the
horn taking out the lights or ECU.

So much this.

Yechnology for its own sake.

Typo from using my phone's keyboard, but I think I'll leave it as is.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote in news:mdq693FpgbaU1@mid.individual.net:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus
error (from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was
having on the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

I had another go at it today, as a change from tractor fettling.

Checked the canbus resistance at both the ZFE module and the ABS
module, 60 ohms. Buzzed the canbus wires through - ok. Checked for
shorts to ground - none.

I still don't get the point of CANbus on bikes. On a BMW GS that must
weigh over a quarter of a tonne, even a kilo of wiring isn't going to
make a noticeable difference, and I'm willing to bet that the loom
isn't that much simpler anyway: you still need to fuse things like
lighting, horn, ECU and so on separately to prevent something trivial
like the horn taking out the lights or ECU.

on my R1200RS there were 3 real fuses

one was the 30A main fuse

one was permanently live and was used for the security, just the keyless ignition circuit on my bike and diagnostic socket

the other was a switched live for the tyre pressure monitor and yaw
sensor

all light and ECU power is managed by the ZFE which also detected open
circuit bulbs as they weren't all LED.

as for why to use canbus, I imagine the main electronic modules are the
same basic design as their cars so the use of canbus/ZFE is a universal
comms approach whether a LCD panel or ABS module. We went the same way
in the 1990s at Xerox as we moved from analogue to digital machines.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 16/07/2025 19:30, wessie wrote:

PipL <pip@nowhere.nul> wrote in news:mdq693FpgbaU1@mid.individual.net:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

Can't remember if I posted here or on FB before about the canbus
error (from the ABS module: "no message received from ZFE") I was
having on the ex-Tom R1200GS.

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

I had another go at it today, as a change from tractor fettling.

Checked the canbus resistance at both the ZFE module and the ABS
module, 60 ohms. Buzzed the canbus wires through - ok. Checked for
shorts to ground - none.

I still don't get the point of CANbus on bikes. On a BMW GS that must
weigh over a quarter of a tonne, even a kilo of wiring isn't going to
make a noticeable difference, and I'm willing to bet that the loom
isn't that much simpler anyway: you still need to fuse things like
lighting, horn, ECU and so on separately to prevent something trivial
like the horn taking out the lights or ECU.

on my R1200RS there were 3 real fuses

one was the 30A main fuse

one was permanently live and was used for the security, just the keyless ignition circuit on my bike and diagnostic socket

the other was a switched live for the tyre pressure monitor and yaw
sensor

That's a weird choice of split.

all light and ECU power is managed by the ZFE which also detected open circuit bulbs as they weren't all LED.

Fair enough, so the ZFE is an electronic fuse box. But either the ZFE
has to run separate wires to all the various devices, or you've got
cascaded failure again.

as for why to use canbus, I imagine the main electronic modules are the
same basic design as their cars so the use of canbus/ZFE is a universal
comms approach whether a LCD panel or ABS module. We went the same way
in the 1990s at Xerox as we moved from analogue to digital machines.

Hmm. It's like the overuse of RTOSs, I suppose: I had to power cycle the
TV to get any sound out of the sound bar. And wait for it to reboot. The
sound bar - speakers for heaven's sake - has an RTOS that takes about 15
- 20 seconds to boot every effing time the TV is switched on. I know it massively aids development and time to market, but it is shit.
--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 16/07/2025 18:36, PipL wrote:

I still don't get the point of CANbus on bikes. On a BMW GS that must
weigh over a quarter of a tonne, even a kilo of wiring isn't going to
make a noticeable difference, and I'm willing to bet that the loom isn't that much simpler anyway: you still need to fuse things like lighting,
horn, ECU and so on separately to prevent something trivial like the
horn taking out the lights or ECU.

There are no fuses. If something draws excessive current, the power will
be cut. Unless that part fails too, in which case it saves you buying
the box of matches.

But yeah, I agree, it's overkill.
--
/Simon
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I've put an offer in on a module on ebay which hopefully will be
accepted and then we'll see what happens.

There's one place in Holland that claim they can repair the module, but, they are on hols at the moment so I'll try the swap first.

New ZFE module arrived today, it seems to work, tfft. I haven't checked
all the functions yet, it still may need reflashing.

It's not fully locked down to the VIN, but a lot of the features need enabling. My Android app should be able to fix most of them, but not
all. (Eg I don't think I can change the VIN).
--
/Simon
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 09:39, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I've put an offer in on a module on ebay which hopefully will be
accepted and then we'll see what happens.

There's one place in Holland that claim they can repair the module,
but, they are on hols at the moment so I'll try the swap first.

New ZFE module arrived today, it seems to work, tfft. I haven't checked
all the functions yet, it still may need reflashing.

It's not fully locked down to the VIN, but a lot of the features need enabling. My Android app should be able to fix most of them, but not
all. (Eg I don't think I can change the VIN).

It all appears to work, I wasted 30 mins trying to get dip beam to come
on, didn't realise/remember it only comes on when the engine is running.

Now for an MoT.
--
/Simon
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

Simon Wilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 09:39, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I've put an offer in on a module on ebay which hopefully will be
accepted and then we'll see what happens.

There's one place in Holland that claim they can repair the module,
but, they are on hols at the moment so I'll try the swap first.

New ZFE module arrived today, it seems to work, tfft. I haven't checked
all the functions yet, it still may need reflashing.

It's not fully locked down to the VIN, but a lot of the features need
enabling. My Android app should be able to fix most of them, but not
all. (Eg I don't think I can change the VIN).

It all appears to work, I wasted 30 mins trying to get dip beam to come
on, didn't realise/remember it only comes on when the engine is running.

Now for an MoT.

Excellent!

Did you have to / were you able to / enable some functions on the
ZFE module with the Motoscan app?

I bought the Basic version of that app for doing some work on my
brother's R1150GS, IIRC there were three tiers of functionality
available. I assume the Basic version would not be able to change
parameters, something only the Pro or Ultimate versions could do.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On Tue, 15 Jul 2025 20:29:02 +0100, Simon Wilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:

The symptoms are: no speedo, revcounter, lights, horn, status lights
etc. The engine starts, the ABS works.

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 12:48, Mark Olson wrote:

Did you have to / were you able to / enable some functions on the
ZFE module with the Motoscan app?

I bought the Basic version of that app for doing some work on my
brother's R1150GS, IIRC there were three tiers of functionality
available. I assume the Basic version would not be able to change
parameters, something only the Pro or Ultimate versions could do.

I did fiddle with some of the parameters, but in the end I didn't need
to change anything - all of the options on my bike were already there. I
do have top version (at least I think it is) though.
--
/Simon
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 15:38, Champ wrote:

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)

I did. Stamped on the back brake.
--
/Simon


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 16:30, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 17/07/2025 15:38, Champ wrote:

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)

I did. Stamped on the back brake.

Going OT, the ABS failed on the Berlngo (or at least the sensor said
so), nothing seemed wrong, so I plugged in the OBD and reset it.

Again, all seemed fine. FOr about 1/2 a mile. Then it went all ungainly
with a lot of screeching, until the EML came back on.

Apparently when it detects an ABS failure it disables ABS. When a sensor
is faulty it seems to break with random pressure on each wheel.

You live and learn
--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly" http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 16:30, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 17/07/2025 15:38, Champ wrote:

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)

I did. Stamped on the back brake.

Going OT, the ABS failed on the Berlngo (or at least the sensor said
so), nothing seemed wrong, so I plugged in the OBD and reset it.

Again, all seemed fine. FOr about 1/2 a mile. Then it went all ungainly
with a lot of screeching, until the EML came back on.

Apparently when it detects an ABS failure it disables ABS. When a sensor
is faulty it seems to break with random pressure on each wheel.

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

Unbelievable. This is not the sort of so-called 'smart' car I'd be
interested in owning.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 09:37, Simon Wilson wrote:

There are no fuses. If something draws excessive current, the power will
be cut. Unless that part fails too, in which case it saves you buying
the box of matches.

Yes, but if you have several items on the same wires, one relatively
trivial item shorting (or even a mechanical wire short) then power will
be cut to all of them. So critical stuff has to be on separate circuits
with separate wires. No weight saving. As I said up there somewhere:
that power control function is just effectively an electronic fuse box,
though presumably one that automatically resets when the fault is fixed.

But yeah, I agree, it's overkill.

--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 11:09, Simon Wilson wrote:

It all appears to work, I wasted 30 mins trying to get dip beam to come
on, didn't realise/remember it only comes on when the engine is running.

Now for an MoT.

Good stuff!
--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 19:03, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 16:30, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 17/07/2025 15:38, Champ wrote:

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)

I did. Stamped on the back brake.

Going OT, the ABS failed on the Berlngo (or at least the sensor said
so), nothing seemed wrong, so I plugged in the OBD and reset it.

Again, all seemed fine. FOr about 1/2 a mile. Then it went all ungainly
with a lot of screeching, until the EML came back on.

Apparently when it detects an ABS failure it disables ABS. When a sensor
is faulty it seems to break with random pressure on each wheel.

Bad form etc.... brake.....

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

A quick read, do I understand correctly that you can drive the car on
throttle only and the the computer does all the braking?


--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly" http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 18/07/2025 08:56 YTC#1 penned these words:

On 17/07/2025 19:03, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 16:30, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 17/07/2025 15:38, Champ wrote:

Please tell me that you genuinely checked that the ABS works :-)

I did. Stamped on the back brake.

Going OT, the ABS failed on the Berlngo (or at least the sensor said
so), nothing seemed wrong, so I plugged in the OBD and reset it.

Again, all seemed fine. FOr about 1/2 a mile. Then it went all ungainly
with a lot of screeching, until the EML came back on.

Apparently when it detects an ABS failure it disables ABS. When a sensor >>> is faulty it seems to break with random pressure on each wheel.

Bad form etc.... brake.....

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

A quick read, do I understand correctly that you can drive the car on throttle only and the the computer does all the braking?

OPM, I do like it albeit my car resets to normal everytime it is turned off so I
have to remember to switch back on.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 19:03, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

A quick read, do I understand correctly that you can drive the car on throttle only and the the computer does all the braking?

Yep, known as One Pedal Driving.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 18/07/2025 15:02, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 19:03, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

A quick read, do I understand correctly that you can drive the car on
throttle only and the the computer does all the braking?

Yep, known as One Pedal Driving.

Fucking madness, what next? Driverless cars?
--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly" http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I think the ZFE is dead dammit.

How old is the bike?

If it's more than 15-20 years then it's most likely failed electrolytic capacitors in the ZFE.

Not hard to replace if they haven't leaked. If they have leaked and the circuit board tracks are corroded then life gets a bit harder.

Since you now have a replacement, if you can open the original and take
some (detailed) pictures of the circuit boards inside then I can give
you an idea how feasible it might be. At least you'd have a spare. :-)

Even if you don't replace them now, they won't get any worse as long as
you don't power it up.
--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 18/07/2025 23:34, Bruce wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I think the ZFE is dead dammit.

How old is the bike?

If it's more than 15-20 years then it's most likely failed electrolytic capacitors in the ZFE.

Not hard to replace if they haven't leaked. If they have leaked and the circuit board tracks are corroded then life gets a bit harder.

Since you now have a replacement, if you can open the original and take
some (detailed) pictures of the circuit boards inside then I can give
you an idea how feasible it might be. At least you'd have a spare. :-)

Even if you don't replace them now, they won't get any worse as long as
you don't power it up.

Haven't got around to opening up the old one yet, but I may have a go.
Since it's all of the inputs that seem to have failed I guess it could
be a single track, voltage/regulator or inductor - those kind of
failures as well as shorted caps could be the culprit.

I believe only the non-component side of the board is (easily)
accessible which could make things tricky.
--
/Simon
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 17/07/2025 23:15, PipL wrote:

On 17/07/2025 11:09, Simon Wilson wrote:

It all appears to work, I wasted 30 mins trying to get dip beam to
come on, didn't realise/remember it only comes on when the engine is
running.

Now for an MoT.

Good stuff!

...and passed.
--
/Simon
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 13:33, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 18/07/2025 23:34, Bruce wrote:

On 15/07/2025 20:29, Simon Wilson wrote:

I think the ZFE is dead dammit.

How old is the bike?

If it's more than 15-20 years then it's most likely failed electrolytic
capacitors in the ZFE.

Not hard to replace if they haven't leaked. If they have leaked and the
circuit board tracks are corroded then life gets a bit harder.

Since you now have a replacement, if you can open the original and take
some (detailed) pictures of the circuit boards inside then I can give
you an idea how feasible it might be. At least you'd have a spare. :-)

Even if you don't replace them now, they won't get any worse as long as
you don't power it up.

Haven't got around to opening up the old one yet, but I may have a go.
Since it's all of the inputs that seem to have failed I guess it could
be a single track, voltage/regulator or inductor - those kind of
failures as well as shorted caps could be the culprit.

I believe only the non-component side of the board is (easily)
accessible which could make things tricky.

Any thoughts about a possible cause or are you just putting it down to bad
luck/fate/age?
--
Geoff
NTV 650
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 18/07/2025 21:10, YTC#1 wrote:

On 18/07/2025 15:02, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

On 17/07/2025 19:03, Mark Olson wrote:

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

You live and learn

Or, you die and forget:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a65438475/nhtsa-issues-urgent-
brake-failure-warning-for-certain-volvo-evs-and-phevs/

A quick read, do I understand correctly that you can drive the car on
throttle only and the the computer does all the braking?

Yep, known as One Pedal Driving.

Fucking madness, what next? Driverless cars?

< Pte Fraser mode > "We're doooomed I tell you!" < /pfm >

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 13:14, geoffC wrote:

Any thoughts about a possible cause or are you just putting it down to bad luck/fate/age?

No idea.

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the
battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could
damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.
--
/Simon


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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 17:05, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 19/07/2025 13:14, geoffC wrote:

Any thoughts about a possible cause or are you just putting it down to bad >> luck/fate/age?

No idea.

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the
battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could
damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.

It's the de-sulphation cycle wot fucks 'em (apparently)


Post in thread 'Charging the battery'
https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/charging-the-battery.340758/post-5240852
--
Geoff
NTV 650
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:

On 19/07/2025 17:05, Simon Wilson wrote:

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the >>battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could >>damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.

It's the de-sulphation cycle wot fucks 'em (apparently)

Post in thread 'Charging the battery' https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/charging-the-battery.340758/post-5240852

Apparently there are two methods of de-sulphation in use, one is
to apply high voltage pulses, and the other is application of high
frequency low current pulses.

The Ctek MXS 0.8 does claim to do de-sulphation, but does not specify
precisely which of these methods are used, although they do claim it
should not exceed 14.4 V, which IMO should not present a problem to
any reasonably robust component of a motorcycle electrical system.

Still, it would seem to be prudent to use a charger that explicity
allows disabling of this feature, given that BMW go out of their way
to caution against using chargers that have a de-sulphation mode.

https://www.ctek.com/us/battery-chargers-12v-24v/us-0-8

See the PDF linked to at text: "US_0.8-manual-low-US-EN.pdf"

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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 17:46, geoffC wrote:

On 19/07/2025 17:05, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 19/07/2025 13:14, geoffC wrote:

Any thoughts about a possible cause or are you just putting it down
to bad
luck/fate/age?

No idea.

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the
battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could
damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.

It's the de-sulphation cycle wot fucks 'em (apparently)

Post in thread 'Charging the battery' https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/charging-the-battery.340758/ post-5240852

I don't think the MXS0.8 does desulphation.
--
/Simon
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 18:28, Mark Olson wrote:

geoffC <me@home.nl> wrote:

On 19/07/2025 17:05, Simon Wilson wrote:

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the
battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could
damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.

It's the de-sulphation cycle wot fucks 'em (apparently)


Post in thread 'Charging the battery'
https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/charging-the-battery.340758/post-5240852

Apparently there are two methods of de-sulphation in use, one is
to apply high voltage pulses, and the other is application of high
frequency low current pulses.

The Ctek MXS 0.8 does claim to do de-sulphation, but does not specify precisely which of these methods are used, although they do claim it
should not exceed 14.4 V, which IMO should not present a problem to
any reasonably robust component of a motorcycle electrical system.

Still, it would seem to be prudent to use a charger that explicity
allows disabling of this feature, given that BMW go out of their way
to caution against using chargers that have a de-sulphation mode.

https://www.ctek.com/us/battery-chargers-12v-24v/us-0-8

See the PDF linked to at text: "US_0.8-manual-low-US-EN.pdf"

I'll probably disconnect the battery to be sure in the future, but, I
think random ZFE failures will continue to happen anyway.
--
/Simon
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 19:28, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 19/07/2025 18:28, Mark Olson wrote:

https://www.ctek.com/us/battery-chargers-12v-24v/us-0-8

See the PDF linked to at text: "US_0.8-manual-low-US-EN.pdf"

I'll probably disconnect the battery to be sure in the future, but, I
think random ZFE failures will continue to happen anyway.

It's all got a bit clever. Don't think I'll be buying a modern BMW. In
fact, I suspect modern bikes in general are going to be off the menu.
OK, the Energica is pretty modern. But look where that got me.

So, by substituting a box of fuses and a box of relays that don't care
about charging voltages, but which present multiple possible failures. However, any failure is for a distinct circuit. With a ZFE you have a potential single point of failure that kills multiple circuits.

And as it's a monolith, you can't swap it around to see whether it was
faulty, or at to least get you home.

I'm turning into a reactionary old git.
--

CHUMP #1 (CHarge Up Muppet)

Pip
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

Simon Wilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:

On 19/07/2025 17:46, geoffC wrote:

On 19/07/2025 17:05, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 19/07/2025 13:14, geoffC wrote:

Any thoughts about a possible cause or are you just putting it down
to bad
luck/fate/age?

No idea.

The bike was left on charge (ctek mxs0.8) directly connected to the
battery. I have heard of charging through the aux power socket could
damage the module, but not connected directly to the battery.

It's the de-sulphation cycle wot fucks 'em (apparently)


Post in thread 'Charging the battery'
https://www.ukgser.com/community/threads/charging-the-battery.340758/
post-5240852

I don't think the MXS0.8 does desulphation.

The US version I linked to explicitly says that it does, and the
PDF shows the desulphation waveform (albeit without any mention of
frequency or pulse parameters).

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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 20:42, PipL wrote:

And as it's a monolith, you can't swap it around to see whether it was >faulty, or at to least get you home.

I'm turning into a reactionary old git.

I think I'll join you.
It's the "must be performed by an approved dealer" bit that irks me.
Wouldn't be so bad if it was all a bit more open-source, repairable,
re-flashable etc.
--
Geoff
NTV 650
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From Newsgroup: uk.rec.motorcycles

On 19/07/2025 19:42, PipL wrote:

On 19/07/2025 19:28, Simon Wilson wrote:

On 19/07/2025 18:28, Mark Olson wrote:

https://www.ctek.com/us/battery-chargers-12v-24v/us-0-8

See the PDF linked to at text: "US_0.8-manual-low-US-EN.pdf"

I'll probably disconnect the battery to be sure in the future, but, I
think random ZFE failures will continue to happen anyway.

It's all got a bit clever. Don't think I'll be buying a modern BMW. In
fact, I suspect modern bikes in general are going to be off the menu.
OK, the Energica is pretty modern. But look where that got me.

Agreed, I'm not looking forward to having to replace any vehicles whilst
this 'new technology' thing is untamed!

And as for AI!

<snip>>

I'm turning into a reactionary old git.

I've been like it a long time!

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk
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