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The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On >> the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. >> This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long >> train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
The might be a second and even a third loco but...
they are getting rid of locos in daytime passenger traffic.
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >> and another DVT.
The might be a second and even a third loco but...
they are getting rid of locos in daytime passenger traffic.
Not on anything I travelled on last week.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> posted:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>> and another DVT.
The might be a second and even a third loco but...
they are getting rid of locos in daytime passenger traffic.
Not on anything I travelled on last week.
You came by EC via Basle or German IC via Singen?
You travelled on semi-old S-Bahn with locos and
double-stack carriages?
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
On the RhB they have three car Stadler EMUs, but these then haul a fairly long rake of coaches, even on the Bernina line that only has 1000V electrification and gradients up to the 1 in 7 adhesion limit.
Major stations still have a shunter loco that can rearrange train
formations quickly.
They donrCOt appear to waste track capacity by running short trains.
And finally, they manage to allow doors to be opened the moment the train comes to a halt in the station.
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear.
But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
On the RhB they have three car Stadler EMUs, but these then haul a fairly long rake of coaches, even on the Bernina line that only has 1000V electrification and gradients up to the 1 in 7 adhesion limit.
Major stations still have a shunter loco that can rearrange train
formations quickly.
They donrCOt appear to waste track capacity by running short trains.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On >> the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. >> This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long >> train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
Switzerland is moving rapidly towards fixed formation trains and multiple units.
One reason that SBB's first class panoramic carriages now operate on long-distance international services is that they can't operate in
push-pull trains, and they are very few Swiss domestic locomotive-hauled services which aren't now push-pull (ie, locomotive stays on one end and driving trailer on the other).
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear.
Just a driving trailer
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
On the RhB they have three car Stadler EMUs, but these then haul a fairly long rake of coaches, even on the Bernina line that only has 1000V electrification and gradients up to the 1 in 7 adhesion limit.
Major stations still have a shunter loco that can rearrange train
formations quickly.
They donrCOt appear to waste track capacity by running short trains.
On 06/10/2025 12:58, Tweed wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches and another DVT.
Definitely on the way out. The latest round of EMUs has allowed the
Re420 series of locomotives to be largely retired from passenger
service, and non-push-pull sets are pretty much gone from daytime
passenger services now. Where locomotive and stock are used, it is
pretty much exclusively Re460 and either EW IV sets or IC2000 double
deck sets. Where you get these extra coaches added on, it is in the form
of fixed formation "modules" added on to fixed formation sets, rather
than formations of coaches formed as-needed for individual services.
On the RhB they have three car Stadler EMUs, but these then haul a fairly long rake of coaches, even on the Bernina line that only has 1000V electrification and gradients up to the 1 in 7 adhesion limit.
The Allegra units on RhB were built to have the power and tractive
effort to haul significant trailing loads, they are in effect locomotive
and EMU all in one.
Major stations still have a shunter loco that can rearrange train formations quickly.
Far less common than even five or so years ago.
They donrCOt appear to waste track capacity by running short trains.
There are plenty of short trains around, what you don't get, though, is short trains on busy routes.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On >>> the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. >>> This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long >>> train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three >> locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka
Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450 locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450 locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I donrCOt doubt that the multiple Re450s are the standard format for those trains, itrCOs just that I thought IrCOd seen one with Re460s. It may have been that the formation was remarkable.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >>> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I donrCOt doubt that the multiple Re450s are the standard format for those >> trains, itrCOs just that I thought IrCOd seen one with Re460s. It may have >> been that the formation was remarkable.
Three locos - does not seem to be a current
standard comp for long-distance services: https://www.reisezuege.ch/reisezuege/index.php?action=12
But still, 0:02:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-f7qdxtPE
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>>>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two >>>> years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >>>> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I donrCOt doubt that the multiple Re450s are the standard format for those >>> trains, itrCOs just that I thought IrCOd seen one with Re460s. It may have >>> been that the formation was remarkable.
Three locos - does not seem to be a current
standard comp for long-distance services:
https://www.reisezuege.ch/reisezuege/index.php?action=12
But still, 0:02:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-f7qdxtPE
Wow!?!? I was thinking of Re460s distributed along the train, though.
Sam
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> posted:
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka
Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two >>>> years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs
which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I donrCOt doubt that the multiple Re450s are the standard format for those
trains, itrCOs just that I thought IrCOd seen one with Re460s. It may have
been that the formation was remarkable.
Three locos - does not seem to be a current
standard comp for long-distance services:
https://www.reisezuege.ch/reisezuege/index.php?action=12
But still, 0:02:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-f7qdxtPE
Wow!?!? I was thinking of Re460s distributed along the train, though.
Traction locos aside, at 13 coaches it illustrates my point that the Swiss donrCOt waste paths when capacity is needed.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On >>> the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock. >>> This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long >>> train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three >> locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka
Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450 locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three >>> locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I donrCOt doubt that the multiple Re450s are the standard format for those trains, itrCOs just that I thought IrCOd seen one with Re460s. It may have been that the formation was remarkable.
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450 locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed.
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three >>> locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed. They date from the period when 3 phase traction motors were taking over from DC traction motors, necessitating 3 phase VVVF traction inverters. In the UK the same
transition was what gave rise to the class 465. The RABe 514 are substantially newer, and in that interval a lot of progress was made in power electronics from a railway perspective. You could draw parallels
in the shift from Standard Stock to 1938 tube stock, eliminating the machinery space on motor cars.
Bob <nospam@gmail.com> posted:
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >>> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed.
Hm.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8CSD-Baureihe_470#/media/Datei:470_003_CD_Opocinek.jpg
But that was for DC.
And even new ones may be half-true: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Desiro_HC#/media/Datei:Haldern_RRX_462_030-462_018_RE5_Koblenz_Hbf_(48130340857).jpg
Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bob <nospam@gmail.com> posted:
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches
and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka
Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two >>> years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs
which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed.
Hm.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8CSD-Baureihe_470#/media/Datei:470_003_CD_Opocinek.jpg
But that was for DC.
Two years later and barely half the power.
And even new ones may be half-true: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Desiro_HC#/media/Datei:Haldern_RRX_462_030-462_018_RE5_Koblenz_Hbf_(48130340857).jpg
18 years later! Significantly younger than the next Swiss generation
already discussed.
Yes I'm sure that's the reason; it's notable that just three years later
the NS DDZ stock has a power car with the upper deck for passengers and the lower deck for traction equipment.
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their
passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving >>>> van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three >>> locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed. They date from the period when 3 phase traction motors were taking over from DC traction motors, necessitating 3 phase VVVF traction inverters. In the UK the same
transition was what gave rise to the class 465. The RABe 514 are substantially newer, and in that interval a lot of progress was made in power electronics from a railway perspective. You could draw parallels
in the shift from Standard Stock to 1938 tube stock, eliminating the machinery space on motor cars.
Bob <nospam@gmail.com> wrote:
On 06/10/2025 17:43, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The Swiss seem to exhibit a lot more sense in the way they run their >>>>> passenger trains. We seem to have gone for inflexible fixed rake trains. On
the main lines they still seem to have a lot of loco hauled coaching stock.
This gives flexibility. I observed one train that was a loco hauling a long
train of double deck coaches, with a few single deck coaches and a driving
van trailer on the rear. But in front of the loco were three more coaches >>>>> and another DVT.
ISTR seeing video, which I canrCOt find now, of a train consisting of three
locos and three rakes of coaches. I think the locos were all Re460s, aka >>>> Lok2000, the one that looks like a jelly mould.
The suburban trains featuring one locomotive per three double deck
carriages, often in formations of two or three multiples, use Re450
locomotives <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Re_450>
The first series of these pre-date the Re460 locomotives by around two
years.
The formation always seemed very wasteful compared to the double deck EMUs >>> which followed <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_514>
I had always assumed that some element of shrinking component sizes to
fit in the "spare space" to allow a true double deck EMU had not yet
matured when those sets were designed. They date from the period when 3
phase traction motors were taking over from DC traction motors,
necessitating 3 phase VVVF traction inverters. In the UK the same
transition was what gave rise to the class 465. The RABe 514 are
substantially newer, and in that interval a lot of progress was made in
power electronics from a railway perspective. You could draw parallels
in the shift from Standard Stock to 1938 tube stock, eliminating the
machinery space on motor cars.
Yes I'm sure that's the reason; it's notable that just three years later
the NS DDZ stock has a power car with the upper deck for passengers and the lower deck for traction equipment.
