| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 23 |
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| Uptime: | 50:07:20 |
| Calls: | 583 |
| Files: | 1,138 |
| Messages: | 111,308 |
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and three by the entrance). It was out of action.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken.
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken.
Should have stored some cash at home and taken part of it with you.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of
course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was
cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs
before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say
PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on
arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at
depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my
carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
Luckily I did have sufficient coins to pay for the car park, but so many places now are "card only" and/or we are surrounded by people who scoff
at "goat-herders" who want to pay with cash, I don't usually have any banknotes available.
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of
course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was
cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs
before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say
PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on
arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at
depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my
carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>> So coins only (u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was
cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say
PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on
arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my
carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over u250 more expensive (u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains arenAt fit for purpose in second class, at
least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >possible. And IAm sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is >what it is. ItAs one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. ThatAs cramped,
but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk >>> fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren-At fit for purpose in second class, at
least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as
possible. And I-Am sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is >> what it is. It-As one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That-As cramped, >> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>>>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk >>>> fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at
least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is >>> what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is >>>> what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered,
comfortable seats, far better than modern British first class seats. And,
no, it's nothing to do with fire resistance.
Luckily I did have sufficient coins to pay for the car park, but so
many places now are "card only" and/or we are surrounded by people
who scoff at "goat-herders" who want to pay with cash, I don't
usually have any banknotes available.
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>>>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered,
comfortable seats, far better than modern British first class seats. And,
no, it's nothing to do with fire resistance.
Mind you, Swiss seats can be pretty tough on the posterior, though second >class has improved from wooden slatsrCa
Not sure why the modern railway has such a problem with seats. An easyJet >seat is far more comfortable, and they have to meet fire and crash
resistance targets, not to mention trying to make them as light as
possible.
But seat design apart, airline style seating on a train is a scourge. The >lack of that was one thing that made the NYMR open second such a pleasure. >And the seats line up with the windows. We canrCOt even manage that in first >these days.
Most long distance UK trains arenrCOt fit for purpose in second class, at >>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>> possible. And IrCOm sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. ItrCOs one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. ThatrCOs cramped,
but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was
cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say
PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on
arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my
carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains arenrCOt fit for purpose in second class, at >least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >possible.
And IrCOm sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. ItrCOs one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. ThatrCOs cramped, >but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
In message <107n5qu$13atg$1@andyburns.eternal-september.org>, at
12:31:41 on Fri, 15 Aug 2025, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
Luckily I did have sufficient coins to pay for the car park, but so
many places now are "card only" and/or we are surrounded by people
who scoff at "goat-herders" who want to pay with cash, I don't
usually have any banknotes available.
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't
seem to be possible on Monday.
In message <107n6ft$13ht9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:42:53 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk >>> fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains arenrCOt fit for purpose in second class, at
least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as
possible.
The return leg on an identical train was perfectly OK. It was the
loading which caused the issues northbound.
And IrCOm sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. ItrCOs one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. ThatrCOs cramped, >> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
As I said before, I couldn't realistically fly because of the luggage I
had on the return trip. And it would have been from Stansted as the
train service from Cambs to Birmingham Airport is terrible (and
virtually no First Class accommodation).
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over u250 more expensive (u130 if I was prepared to risk >>>>> fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is >>>> what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a >>compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are >>worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered, comfortable seats, far better
than modern British first class seats. And, no, it's nothing to do with
fire resistance.
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't
seem to be possible on Monday.
For someone that lays great store about carting around a huge array of bits >and bobs in a rCLroad warriorrCY kit, not having spare bank notes is a bit >remiss.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n6ft$13ht9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:42:53 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations >>>>>> and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station. >>>>>> So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were. >>>>>> As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we >>>>>> rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some >>>>>> more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it >>>>>> might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of >>>>>> the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and >>>>>> three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on >>>>>> their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there, >>>>>> they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and
Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later >>>>>> transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow >>>>>> trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross >>>>>> to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's >>>>>> always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was
"unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in >>>>>> the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was >>>>>> supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an
unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to >>>>>> barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on >>>>>> my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was >>>>>> someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially >>>>>> promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't >>>>>> be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise
several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay >>>>>> to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some
distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier"
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping, >>>>>> and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone >>>>>> home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First
Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk >>>> fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different
train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains arenrCOt fit for purpose in second class, at >>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>> possible.
The return leg on an identical train was perfectly OK. It was the
loading which caused the issues northbound.
And IrCOm sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. ItrCOs one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. ThatrCOs cramped,
but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
As I said before, I couldn't realistically fly because of the luggage I
had on the return trip. And it would have been from Stansted as the
train service from Cambs to Birmingham Airport is terrible (and
virtually no First Class accommodation).
Loading, or over loading, is another problem with second class.
It tends not to be an issue in first.
IrCOve been on a long distance XC service where second was full and >standing, but first was just fine.
I wasnrCOt suggesting you should fly from Birmingham. But Birmingham Glasgow >is a good comparison route. It tends to be both cheaper and faster by air >than train, and IrCOve never had the air service fail to get me there. The >train service failed twice.
In message <qd8u9kthe4ag547i4andcebdagbtfnued4@4ax.com>, at 13:03:42 on
Fri, 15 Aug 2025, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>>>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a >>>compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are >>>worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered, comfortable seats, far better >>than modern British first class seats. And, no, it's nothing to do with >>fire resistance.
How many carriages would you need to accommodate the 611 seated pax in
an Azuma with seats like those??
And posh seats are no use if there's two standing pax for every couple
of rows of seats, plus half a dozen in each vestibule.
In message <107n9dq$147gd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:58 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't
seem to be possible on Monday.
For someone that lays great store about carting around a huge array of bits >> and bobs in a rCLroad warriorrCY kit, not having spare bank notes is a bit >> remiss.
I used to have Dollars and Euros in my kit, but why would I need them on
a trip to Glasgow, when pretty much every place I was likely to buy something would be "Card Only".
Strangely enough my local CoOp was "Cash only" the other day because
some sort of outage. And they had an ATM in the wall at the front. Until
the local chavs took it away in the middle of the night (mid January)
using a JCB. Still not been replaced, nor the rather larger than before hole-in-the wall bricked up (it's still just boarded up).
The ATM ended up dumped by the side of the road several miles away, unopened, so a bit of a waste of everyone's time.
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council >>>>>>>> had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of >>>>>>>> course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am?
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass. >>>>>>>>
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs >>>>>>>> before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew".
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full).
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes >>>>>>>> late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to
Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed >>>>>>>> to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at >>>>>>>> depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen >>>>>> Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as >>>>> possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered,
comfortable seats, far better than modern British first class seats. And,
no, it's nothing to do with fire resistance.
Mind you, Swiss seats can be pretty tough on the posterior, though second class has improved from wooden slatsrCa
Not sure why the modern railway has such a problem with seats. An easyJet seat is far more comfortable, and they have to meet fire and crash
resistance targets, not to mention trying to make them as light as
possible.
But seat design apart, airline style seating on a train is a scourge. The lack of that was one thing that made the NYMR open second such a pleasure. And the seats line up with the windows. We canrCOt even manage that in first these days.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n9dq$147gd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:58 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't
seem to be possible on Monday.
For someone that lays great store about carting around a huge array of bits >>> and bobs in a rCLroad warriorrCY kit, not having spare bank notes is a bit >>> remiss.
I used to have Dollars and Euros in my kit, but why would I need them on
a trip to Glasgow, when pretty much every place I was likely to buy
something would be "Card Only".
Strangely enough my local CoOp was "Cash only" the other day because
some sort of outage. And they had an ATM in the wall at the front. Until
the local chavs took it away in the middle of the night (mid January)
using a JCB. Still not been replaced, nor the rather larger than before
hole-in-the wall bricked up (it's still just boarded up).
The ATM ended up dumped by the side of the road several miles away,
unopened, so a bit of a waste of everyone's time.
Who mentioned Dollars or Euros?
ItrCOs sterling that you seem to be lacking.
My M&S and your co-op example are reasons to carry some bank notes. Not >everywhere is card only. I purchased two bottles of water at the Whitby >station cafe the other day. A pound each with a minimum five pound card >purchase.
I paid with a 10 pound note and they happily gave change.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 13:40:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <qd8u9kthe4ag547i4andcebdagbtfnued4@4ax.com>, at 13:03:42 on >>Fri, 15 Aug 2025, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat >>>>>>>>>reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near >>>>>>>>>the station.
So coins only (u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the >>>>>>>>>units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of
course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am? >>>>>>>>>
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes >>>>>>>>>parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need >>>>>>>>>to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I >>>>>>>>>thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one >>>>>>>>>remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol >>>>>>>>>station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully >>>>>>>>>rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I >>>>>>>>>got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs
before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew". >>>>>>>>>
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", >>>>>>>>>which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three >>>>>>>>>consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed >>>>>>>>>Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they >>>>>>>>>lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, >>>>>>>>>with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full). >>>>>>>>>
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next >>>>>>>>>stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and >>>>>>>>>proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people >>>>>>>>>treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew >>>>>>>>>we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and >>>>>>>>>initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no >>>>>>>>>it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute >>>>>>>>>delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to >>>>>>>>> Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at
depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew >>>>>>>>>gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because >>>>>>>>>everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>>> Class would be over u250 more expensive (u130 if I was prepared >>>>>>>to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as
possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, >>>>>>as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a >>>>compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are >>>>worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even >>>in standard class have deep, upholstered, comfortable seats, far better >>>than modern British first class seats. And, no, it's nothing to do with >>>fire resistance.
How many carriages would you need to accommodate the 611 seated pax in
an Azuma with seats like those??
Two 4-car class 115 sets, with a total length of 156m, could
accommodate 664 pax (60 first, 604 standard class). But you
could actually comfortably fit three sets into the platforms used by
10-car Azumas, so a total of just under a thousand
passengers. That's way more than the typical 684 seats in a 10-car 802.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_115
And posh seats are no use if there's two standing pax for every couple
of rows of seats, plus half a dozen in each vestibule.
The seats aren't fancy, just comfortable.
In message <107ng17$15qfe$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:25:43 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
ItrCOs sterling that you seem to be lacking.
Because we are beaten over the head over and over and over again that
only goat-herders use cash any more.
On 15/08/2025 13:11, Tweed wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed >>><usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:Mind you, Swiss seats can be pretty tough on the posterior, though >>second
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, 15 Aug >>>>>>> 2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat >>>>>>>>>reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near >>>>>>>>>the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked for how >>>>>>>>> long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the >>>>>>>>>units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's holiday). Of
course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am? >>>>>>>>>
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I was on >>>>>>>>> holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes >>>>>>>>>parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need >>>>>>>>>to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I >>>>>>>>>thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one >>>>>>>>>remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol >>>>>>>>>station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket
successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully >>>>>>>>>rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers.
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged round >>>>>>>>> there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I >>>>>>>>>got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when they were >>>>>>>>> both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the other) was >>>>>>>>> cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about missing >>>>>>>>> their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a taxi (at >>>>>>>>> their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax should >>>>>>>>> plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time (ie 3hrs
before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had a chat >>>>>>>>> with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised to use >>>>>>>>> the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the platforms. Queue >>>>>>>>> for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite long, so I >>>>>>>>> waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew". >>>>>>>>>
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", >>>>>>>>>which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three >>>>>>>>>consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed >>>>>>>>>Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am (it was >>>>>>>>> clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet what with >>>>>>>>> the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they >>>>>>>>>lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, arr EDI >>>>>>>>> 13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half of it >>>>>>>>> *was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, >>>>>>>>>with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full). >>>>>>>>>
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, and >>>>>>>>> people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the topic of a >>>>>>>>> later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next >>>>>>>>>stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and >>>>>>>>>proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly on the >>>>>>>>> shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I did say >>>>>>>>> PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people >>>>>>>>>treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given I have >>>>>>>>> gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew >>>>>>>>>we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and >>>>>>>>>initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no >>>>>>>>>it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs in the >>>>>>>>> waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers on the >>>>>>>>> still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the barriers on >>>>>>>>> arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly gripper >>>>>>>>> about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute >>>>>>>>>delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute early. >>>>>>>>>
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting for the >>>>>>>>> Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform until 4 >>>>>>>>> minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum at the >>>>>>>>> barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach J, it >>>>>>>>> felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly loaded, so >>>>>>>>> reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to >>>>>>>>> Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled "Problems at
depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by earlier >>>>>>>>> delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished (and the >>>>>>>>> outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled loo in my >>>>>>>>> carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew >>>>>>>>>gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because >>>>>>>>>everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific trains, it >>>>>>> was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was >>>>>>>prepared to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same price as >>>>>>> ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and the >>>>>>> outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the system >>>>>>> that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay on the >>>>>>> first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train on the >>>>>>> way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second class, at >>>>>> least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective of the >>>>>> restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many seats as
possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, >>>>>>as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s cramped, >>>>>> but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things are >>>> worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even
in standard class have deep, upholstered,
comfortable seats, far better than modern British first class seats. And, >>> no, it's nothing to do with fire resistance.
class has improved from wooden slatsrCa
Not sure why the modern railway has such a problem with seats. An >>easyJet
seat is far more comfortable, and they have to meet fire and crash
resistance targets, not to mention trying to make them as light as
possible.
But seat design apart, airline style seating on a train is a
scourge. The
lack of that was one thing that made the NYMR open second such a pleasure. >> And the seats line up with the windows. We canrCOt even manage that in first >> these days.
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes the >phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the
journey.
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 16:56:23 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wibbled:
In message <107ng17$15qfe$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:25:43 on Fri, 15 Aug >>2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
It|ore4raos sterling that you seem to be lacking.
Because we are beaten over the head over and over and over again that
only goat-herders use cash any more.
Usually by vested financial interests or politicians who'd like nothing better >to track and/or charge for every transaction which they can't do with cash >and the gullible fall for it.
In message <107ng17$15qfe$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:25:43 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n9dq$147gd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:58 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't >>>>> seem to be possible on Monday.
For someone that lays great store about carting around a huge array of bits
and bobs in a rCLroad warriorrCY kit, not having spare bank notes is a bit >>>> remiss.
I used to have Dollars and Euros in my kit, but why would I need them on >>> a trip to Glasgow, when pretty much every place I was likely to buy
something would be "Card Only".
Strangely enough my local CoOp was "Cash only" the other day because
some sort of outage. And they had an ATM in the wall at the front. Until >>> the local chavs took it away in the middle of the night (mid January)
using a JCB. Still not been replaced, nor the rather larger than before
hole-in-the wall bricked up (it's still just boarded up).
The ATM ended up dumped by the side of the road several miles away,
unopened, so a bit of a waste of everyone's time.
Who mentioned Dollars or Euros?
I've said quite a few times my basic kit is for international travel, although I'd normally leave un-usable currency at home, as an exception.
But going for example to Russia, they used to prefer pounds or dollars
for a taxi ride.
ItrCOs sterling that you seem to be lacking.
Because we are beaten over the head over and over and over again that
only goat-herders use cash any more.
My M&S and your co-op example are reasons to carry some bank notes. Not
everywhere is card only. I purchased two bottles of water at the Whitby
station cafe the other day. A pound each with a minimum five pound card
purchase.
That minimum charge is a violation of the T&C with their merchant
services.
I paid with a 10 pound note and they happily gave change.
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
In message <kdeu9kh2o8bmr57uhbrp7pu7qgordh6gdl@4ax.com>, at 14:51:25 on
Fri, 15 Aug 2025, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 13:40:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
How many carriages would you need to accommodate the 611 seated pax in
an Azuma with seats like those??
Two 4-car class 115 sets, with a total length of 156m, could
accommodate 664 pax (60 first, 604 standard class). But you
could actually comfortably fit three sets into the platforms used by >10-car Azumas, so a total of just under a thousand
passengers. That's way more than the typical 684 seats in a 10-car 802.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_115
And posh seats are no use if there's two standing pax for every couple
of rows of seats, plus half a dozen in each vestibule.
The seats aren't fancy, just comfortable.
Even though they are 3+2, which gets a lot of criticism? And 3+3 at the
ends of compartments (thus no opportunity to move through the train).
In message <107ni9f$16a82$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:04:14 on Fri, 15 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 15/08/2025 13:11, Tweed wrote:
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:53:56 -0000 (UTC), Tweed-aMind you, Swiss seats can be pretty tough on the posterior, though
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Aug 2025 11:42:53 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107n1b4$1297o$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:15:00 on Fri, >>>>>>>> 15 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
[I may write another report about the social issues of seat >>>>>>>>>> reservations
and how well people respected them]
Early Monday morning and I'd already seen on Facebook that the >>>>>>>>>> council
had withdrawn the pay-by-phone app from their car park near >>>>>>>>>> the station.
So coins only (-u4 a day).
This is the car park I'd used before with an app, which asked >>>>>>>>>> for how
long I was planning on staying, but didn't mention what the >>>>>>>>>> units were.
As it's long stay, charging per day, I said "7" (a week's >>>>>>>>>> holiday). Of
course, they don't say when days end, is it midnight or 4am? >>>>>>>>>>
So next day, back then, I got a text on my phone to where I >>>>>>>>>> was on
holiday abroad saying "Thanks for paying for 7 minutes
parking, which we
rounded up to a day, but if you want to stay longer you need >>>>>>>>>> to pay some
more".
Walking from there to the station, around the Tesco store, I >>>>>>>>>> thought it
might be prudent to get some cash (notes) from the one
remaining ATM of
the four they used to have (one now boarded up at the petrol >>>>>>>>>> station and
three by the entrance). It was out of action.
The station barriers scanned my printed PDF QR-coded ticket >>>>>>>>>> successfully. There was an inbound passenger unsuccessfully >>>>>>>>>> rummaging on
their phone for their ticket to be let out of the barriers. >>>>>>>>>>
Train was due to depart from the island platform, so I trudged >>>>>>>>>> round
there via the only means of access - an underpass. Just as I >>>>>>>>>> got there,
they announced a platform change to #1. OK, so back via the >>>>>>>>>> underpass.
The XC to Stansted timed at the exact same clockface (when >>>>>>>>>> they were
both Central Trains, the crews would swap from one to the >>>>>>>>>> other) was
cancelled due to signal problems somewhere between Leicester and >>>>>>>>>> Peterborough. Several passengers getting quite agitated about >>>>>>>>>> missing
their flights, and the platform staff suggested they take a >>>>>>>>>> taxi (at
their own expense, I presume). Central Trains used to say pax >>>>>>>>>> should
plan to arrive at Stansted 2hrs before the last check-in time >>>>>>>>>> (ie 3hrs
before the flight) to paper over cracks like that.
EMT train to Peterborough (later to Liverpool) was OK, and had >>>>>>>>>> a chat
with the gripper about his pay-per-scan bounty.
Lift from the platform at Peterborough broken, and pax advised >>>>>>>>>> to use
the ex-Royal_Mail overbridge at the other end of the
platforms. Queue
for the two unisex toilet cubicles on that platform quite >>>>>>>>>> long, so I
waited until on my departure platform.
Thameslink southbound borked due to "Shortage of train crew". >>>>>>>>>>
First Edinburgh train "delayed due to urgent bridge works", >>>>>>>>>> which later
transpired to be in the Durham area.
Fatality on the Euston line causing havoc with three
consecutive Glasgow
trains cancelled, and pax told to try already oversubscribed >>>>>>>>>> Kings Cross
to Edinburgh services.
The buffet at Peterborough wouldn't sell alcohol before 10am >>>>>>>>>> (it was
clearly going to be impossible to get to an on-train buffet >>>>>>>>>> what with
the overcrowding). "Is this a new thing" I asked. "No", they >>>>>>>>>> lied, "it's
always been like that".
My booked train (no reservation, but the ticket said "09:48, >>>>>>>>>> arr EDI
13:22") was on time but full and standing, and only coach C was >>>>>>>>>> "unreserved", but that was partly a lie as well, because half >>>>>>>>>> of it
*was* reserved. I propped myself up on the end of a table, >>>>>>>>>> with bags in
the aisle (because all the overhead racks were rammed full). >>>>>>>>>>
Much hilarity ensued with people turning up with reservations, >>>>>>>>>> and
people in the seats refusing to budge, but that'll be the >>>>>>>>>> topic of a
later posting.
Quite a few tannoy announcements, but entirely inaudible. Next >>>>>>>>>> stop was
supposed to be York (and so it remained on the PIS) but it did an >>>>>>>>>> unscheduled stop at Doncaster.
At which point several people opportunistically boarded and >>>>>>>>>> proceeded to
barge their way down the aisle. One managed to kick me firmly >>>>>>>>>> on the
shin in the process, to which I complained. Their response "I >>>>>>>>>> did say
PLEASE".
Overall on the trip I counted about five instances of people >>>>>>>>>> treading on
my toes, none of whom were the slightest bit apologetic. Given >>>>>>>>>> I have
gout, it's not a trivial assault.
The train got progressively later, eventually being I think 28 >>>>>>>>>> minutes
late. Which meant I missed my connection. The only train crew >>>>>>>>>> we saw was
someone coming through asking for passengers to Inverness, and >>>>>>>>>> initially
promising their connection would be held, but later saying "no >>>>>>>>>> it won't
be". Quite a bit of delay-repay there, I'll wager.
At Waverley I was still looking for cash, but all three ATMs >>>>>>>>>> in the
waiting area next to the Brewdog pub were broken. Passengers >>>>>>>>>> on the
still full-and-standing train had been waved thought the
barriers on
arrival, otherwise there'd have probably been a riot.
Scotrail Express to Glasgow was less crowded (but I did recognise >>>>>>>>>> several pax from the KGX train). Another chat with friendly >>>>>>>>>> gripper
about pay-per-scan-bounty.
Luckily(?) it was two minutes late, hence I have a 32 minute >>>>>>>>>> delay repay
to claim. It would have been irritating had it been one minute >>>>>>>>>> early.
Met with the person I had travelled to see, and soon waiting >>>>>>>>>> for the
Express back to Edinburgh. They didn't announce the platform >>>>>>>>>> until 4
minutes before departure, which created a considerable scrum >>>>>>>>>> at the
barriers.
At Waverley, the London train was at an unbarriered platform some >>>>>>>>>> distance from te concourse, and with my reserved seat in Coach >>>>>>>>>> J, it
felt like I'd already walked halfway home. Quite lightly
loaded, so
reservation was moot. No train crew seen all the way back to >>>>>>>>>> Peterborough.
... Where they'd fixed the lift to the far island platform, >>>>>>>>>> but failed
to remove signage warning it was broken.
And the departure board was stuffed with delays.
Thameslink still borked, with one Horsham train cancelled >>>>>>>>>> "Problems at
depot" and another "Delayed due to a points failure".
20:52 to Leeds "11 late, due to points failure"
20:53 to Birmingham "18 late, due to train crew delayed by >>>>>>>>>> earlier
delays"
21:08 to Kings Cross "Delayed due to points failure" and
21:16 to Stansted "8 late due to a fault on the train earlier" >>>>>>>>>>
I got on that one, which had been quite nicely refurbished >>>>>>>>>> (and the
outside was very white, rather than XC colours).
But the wifi wouldn't connect to my laptop and the disabled >>>>>>>>>> loo in my
carriage was, err, disabled (locked out of use). No train crew >>>>>>>>>> gripping,
and the barriers at my destination locked open because
everyone had gone
home.
Nobody, all day, asked to see my railcard.
Did you go first or second class?
As I was on a budget, and didn't want to commit to specific
trains, it
was Standard(sic) Class walk-up.
Doing a search just now for the same tickets for next Monday, First >>>>>>>> Class would be over -u250 more expensive (-u130 if I was prepared >>>>>>>> to risk
fixed-time singles - incidentally historically hard to find had >>>>>>>> I chosen
Plan A to go EUS-GLA direct, but next Monday roughly the same >>>>>>>> price as
ECML. Shame the trains were cancelled last Monday).
Which raises an interesting question: If doing a return trip and >>>>>>>> the
outbound train is late, could one use the return leg on a different >>>>>>>> train without penalty? There seems to be an assumption in the >>>>>>>> system
that you'd be going out and back on different days, so a delay >>>>>>>> on the
first wouldn't impact one's ability to catch the correct train >>>>>>>> on the
way back.
Most long distance UK trains aren?t fit for purpose in second
class, at
least in my opinion. Far too cramped, both from the perspective >>>>>>> of the
restrictive loading gauge and the desire to shoe horn in as many >>>>>>> seats as
possible. And I?m sticking to second class as the nomenclature, >>>>>>> as that is
what it is. It?s one reason I prefer easyJet to Glasgow. That?s >>>>>>> cramped,
but you only sit in the seat for 45 minutes. (From Birmingham)
It could be worse. In the old days it was Third Class :-)
True. Having just travelled in that class on the NYMR, both in a
compartment and an open carriage, I can confidently say that things >>>>> are
worse now in terms of comfort, apart from perhaps air conditioning.
I've recently had several rides in first generation BR DMUs, which even >>>> in standard class have deep, upholstered,
comfortable seats, far better than modern British first class seats.
And,
no, it's nothing to do with fire resistance.
second
class has improved from wooden slatsrCa
-aNot sure why the modern railway has such a problem with seats. An
easyJet
seat is far more comfortable, and they have to meet fire and crash
resistance targets, not to mention trying to make them as light as
possible.
-aBut seat design apart, airline style seating on a train is a
scourge. The
lack of that was one thing that made the NYMR open second such a
pleasure.
And the seats line up with the windows. We canrCOt even manage that in
first
these days.
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes
the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the
journey.
Not entirely true. I was advised to book a seat with an eastern aspect
to see the coast around the border. And on that train, seven out of the nearest twelve seats to me were occupied by infants, none of whom had
phones or tablets (or indeed what we'd normally call decent manners).
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes
the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the >>>journey.
Not entirely true. I was advised to book a seat with an eastern
aspect to see the coast around the border. And on that train, seven
out of the nearest twelve seats to me were occupied by infants, none
of whom had phones or tablets (or indeed what we'd normally call
decent manners).
Now you are getting desperate to find a reason for disagreement
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the journey.
In message <107n5qu$13atg$1@andyburns.eternal-september.org>, at
12:31:41 on Fri, 15 Aug 2025, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked: >Roland Perry wrote:
Luckily I did have sufficient coins to pay for the car park, but so >>many places now are "card only" and/or we are surrounded by people
who scoff at "goat-herders" who want to pay with cash, I don't
usually have any banknotes available.
It must be a conscious choice to not carry notes,
I don't carry spare ones.
so you shouldn't complain when you need some ...
I expect to be able to pick some up at an ATM, if I need them. Didn't
seem to be possible on Monday.
On 15/08/2025 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote:
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes
the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the
journey.
Is that any worse that sitting reading The Sun or latest Mills & Boon
book as might happen in the past?
On 16/08/2025 08:41, JMB99 wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote:
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes
the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the
journey.
Is that any worse that sitting reading The Sun or latest Mills & Boon
book as might happen in the past?
Just goes to show the travelling public doesn't really care about window alignment.
Just goes to show the travelling public doesn't really care about window alignment.
On 16/08/2025 09:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
Just goes to show the travelling public doesn't really care about window
alignment.
Or that everyone has different priorities / requirments?
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several
places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Some French ATMs will happily dispense you a single 100 euro note if you
ask for 100 euros. IrCOve learnt to request 90 euros.
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several
places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several
places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Some French ATMs will happily dispense you a single 100 euro note if you
ask for 100 euros. IrCOve learnt to request 90 euros.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
On 16/08/2025 14:09, Tweed wrote:
I can believe that. In a restaurant in Germany a couple of weeks ago I wanted to pay with my Visa card but their machine said "declined". With increasing annoyance and slight embarrassment I then tried another Visa
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa. >>
card and a Mastercard. My wife tried one of hers. Same result each
time. I said that our cards had worked elsewhere that same day and
asked if their machine was faulty. The manager was called and brought
up another card machine - same results. Fortunately we had just enough Euros between us. I am sure they were running some scam, but wasn't
sure what it was. I certainly didn't add on a tip. Being of a
suspicious nature, I checked immediately afterwards and none of our
cards had actually been charged. They might have stolen some details
but we've had no illicit charges in the days since then. So it remains
a mystery.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:09, Tweed wrote:
I can believe that. In a restaurant in Germany a couple of weeks ago I
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa. >>>
wanted to pay with my Visa card but their machine said "declined". With
increasing annoyance and slight embarrassment I then tried another Visa
card and a Mastercard. My wife tried one of hers. Same result each
time. I said that our cards had worked elsewhere that same day and
asked if their machine was faulty. The manager was called and brought
up another card machine - same results. Fortunately we had just enough
Euros between us. I am sure they were running some scam, but wasn't
sure what it was. I certainly didn't add on a tip. Being of a
suspicious nature, I checked immediately afterwards and none of our
cards had actually been charged. They might have stolen some details
but we've had no illicit charges in the days since then. So it remains
a mystery.
That could genuinely be the bank that controlled the restaurantrCOs card >machines having a technical bad hair day. Or the restaurantrCOs Internet >connection being down perhaps?
In message <107q537$1ol5q$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:27 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:09, Tweed wrote:
I can believe that. In a restaurant in Germany a couple of weeks ago I >>> wanted to pay with my Visa card but their machine said "declined". With >>> increasing annoyance and slight embarrassment I then tried another Visa
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
card and a Mastercard. My wife tried one of hers. Same result each
time. I said that our cards had worked elsewhere that same day and
asked if their machine was faulty. The manager was called and brought
up another card machine - same results. Fortunately we had just enough
Euros between us. I am sure they were running some scam, but wasn't
sure what it was. I certainly didn't add on a tip. Being of a
suspicious nature, I checked immediately afterwards and none of our
cards had actually been charged. They might have stolen some details
but we've had no illicit charges in the days since then. So it remains
a mystery.
That could genuinely be the bank that controlled the restaurantrCOs card
machines having a technical bad hair day. Or the restaurantrCOs Internet
connection being down perhaps?
But why keep offering the machine to more diners, if all the ones
earlier in the day had been consistently declined?
Would the machine even say "declined" if it wasn't in contact with the merchant services (modulo the whole thing being a skimming operation).
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The >> chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >> Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The >>> chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >>> Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa. >>
Are you alluding they may not want to let the authorities know what their takings really are?
ICBW but I think another reason is a business that is on the cusp of going under and the card facilities have been withdrawn by the providers or the the business doesnrCOt want any takings going into the bank account where they cannot retrieve them as the account is in arrears.
GH
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of >>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >>>> Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa. >>>
Are you alluding they may not want to let the authorities know what their
takings really are?
ICBW but I think another reason is a business that is on the cusp of going >> under and the card facilities have been withdrawn by the providers or the >> the business doesnrCOt want any takings going into the bank account where
they cannot retrieve them as the account is in arrears.
GH
Both reasons you give.
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers
NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donrCOt think card suppliers pay up on a daily basis.
As a side note, I understand that card companies donrCOt hand over the money for airline tickets until after the flight. ThatrCOs why they are happy to immediately refund you if the airline goes under. Perhaps this varies by
the credit rating of the airline.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107q537$1ol5q$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:27 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:09, Tweed wrote:
I can believe that. In a restaurant in Germany a couple of weeks ago I >>>> wanted to pay with my Visa card but their machine said "declined". With >>>> increasing annoyance and slight embarrassment I then tried another Visa >>>> card and a Mastercard. My wife tried one of hers. Same result each
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
time. I said that our cards had worked elsewhere that same day and
asked if their machine was faulty. The manager was called and brought >>>> up another card machine - same results. Fortunately we had just enough >>>> Euros between us. I am sure they were running some scam, but wasn't
sure what it was. I certainly didn't add on a tip. Being of a
suspicious nature, I checked immediately afterwards and none of our
cards had actually been charged. They might have stolen some details
but we've had no illicit charges in the days since then. So it remains >>>> a mystery.
That could genuinely be the bank that controlled the restaurantrCOs card >>> machines having a technical bad hair day. Or the restaurantrCOs Internet >>> connection being down perhaps?
But why keep offering the machine to more diners, if all the ones
earlier in the day had been consistently declined?
Would the machine even say "declined" if it wasn't in contact with the
merchant services (modulo the whole thing being a skimming operation).
M&S till card machines showed declined during the start of their ransomware attack. I was trying to pay during the first few minutes of the event.
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers
NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate >employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donrCOt think card suppliers pay up on a daily >basis.
In message <107qe85$1qt1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:41 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers
NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate
employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donrCOt think card suppliers pay up on a daily
basis.
When I was running a mail order company in the 70's, Access and
Barclaycard paid in about a month, Amex in two months. We didn't take
Diners Club, but I expect they were the same as Amex.
In message <107qe85$1qt1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:41 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers
NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate
employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donrCOt think card suppliers pay up on a daily
basis.
When I was running a mail order company in the 70's, Access and
Barclaycard paid in about a month, Amex in two months. We didn't take
Diners Club, but I expect they were the same as Amex.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107qe85$1qt1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:41 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers >>> NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate
employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donrCOt think card suppliers pay up on a daily >>> basis.
When I was running a mail order company in the 70's, Access and
Barclaycard paid in about a month, Amex in two months. We didn't take
Diners Club, but I expect they were the same as Amex.
Diners Club always seemed a bit of an also ran here in the UK, used to see their logo on establishments but I did not know anyone who had one whereas
in contrast I knew several with AMEX which despite its pretensions of exclusivity wasnrCOt really hard to obtain, heck they even offered me one.
Perhaps some our heritage railways should consider the over done provision
of enamel signs extolling
Victorian polishes , ink and biscuits and dress a station with 1970rCOs brands with adverts for Watneys Red Barrel , Leyland Cars and stickers for Diners Club ,Access cards and Double Green Shield Stamps. Or even the also ran Pinks Stamps which were actually owned by the US Green Stamp company
but found a UK business man had already knicked their idea and colour in
the UK.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The >> chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >> Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
When our Co-op replaced its "divi" by blue stamps, I was given the job
of sticking them in. We actually bought some useful items with them,
unlike Green Shield where you needed a lifetime's supply for a toaster.
On 16/08/2025 18:13, Tweed wrote:
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of >>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>> notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying oCash Only Card >>>>> Machine Brokeno.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting casha. >>>>
Are you alluding they may not want to let the authorities know what their >>> takings really are?
ICBW but I think another reason is a business that is on the cusp of going >>> under and the card facilities have been withdrawn by the providers or the >>> the business doesnAt want any takings going into the bank account where
they cannot retrieve them as the account is in arrears.
GH
Both reasons you give.
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers
NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate
employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I donAt think card suppliers pay up on a daily
basis.
As a side note, I understand that card companies donAt hand over the money >> for airline tickets until after the flight. ThatAs why they are happy to
immediately refund you if the airline goes under. Perhaps this varies by
the credit rating of the airline.
Another reason, especially with organisations like takeaways and
barbers, is the opportunities for money laundering. More cash appears to >flow through the business than happens in reality but very difficult to >check up on.
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 20:36:37 +0100, Graeme Wall
<rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 16/08/2025 18:13, Tweed wrote:With the dodgy businesses you have both legal and illegal cashflows.
Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several
places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>> notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying -oCash Only Card
Machine Broken-o.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cash-a.
Are you alluding they may not want to let the authorities know what their >>>> takings really are?
ICBW but I think another reason is a business that is on the cusp of going >>>> under and the card facilities have been withdrawn by the providers or the >>>> the business doesn-At want any takings going into the bank account where >>>> they cannot retrieve them as the account is in arrears.
GH
Both reasons you give.
Cash gives the ability to pay casual employees cash in hand, no employers >>> NI, no pension, ability to pay under the minimum wage for desperate
employees. And of course no need to declare full profits.
If the business is going under cash gives an immediate cash flow to pay
wages and suppliers. And I don-At think card suppliers pay up on a daily >>> basis.
As a side note, I understand that card companies don-At hand over the money >>> for airline tickets until after the flight. That-As why they are happy to >>> immediately refund you if the airline goes under. Perhaps this varies by >>> the credit rating of the airline.
Another reason, especially with organisations like takeaways and
barbers, is the opportunities for money laundering. More cash appears to
flow through the business than happens in reality but very difficult to
check up on.
The red flag to HMRC and others is that the legal flow (when compared
to more respectable businesses) is too low, in the past sometimes less
than the rent and rates.
Its bleeding obvious that a barbers that only sees about 5 customers a day canrCOt support the top of the range BMW car that the rCLownerrCY rocks up in to
see how his hapless employee is up to.
On 17/08/2025 19:40, Marland wrote:
Its bleeding-a obvious that a barbers that only sees about 5 customers
a day
canrCOt support the top of the range BMW car that the rCLownerrCY rocks up >> in to
see how his hapless-a employee is up to.
Like many others of them, the one down in town appears to be well
equipped with the latest equipment.
Often at least three of the staff outside playing on their mobile phones
and no customers inside.
There are comments online that are very similar from all over the UK.
On 17/08/2025 21:38, JMB99 wrote:
On 17/08/2025 19:40, Marland wrote:
Its bleeding-a obvious that a barbers that only sees about 5 customers
a day
canrCOt support the top of the range BMW car that the rCLownerrCY rocks up >>> in to
see how his hapless-a employee is up to.
Like many others of them, the one down in town appears to be well
equipped with the latest equipment.
Often at least three of the staff outside playing on their mobile phones
and no customers inside.
There are comments online that are very similar from all over the UK.
So they're not doing what was suggested elsewhere in this subthread,
which is having lots of customers but concealing those who pay cash and
only paying tax on card-carrying visitors. If there is any wrongdoing,
which there may well be as you can't buy a BMW on five haircuts a day,
then it's of some other nature such as money laundering.
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The >> chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >> Machine BrokenrCY.
Sam
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
On 16/08/2025 16:52, Tweed wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <107q537$1ol5q$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:37:27 on Sat, 16 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 16/08/2025 14:09, Tweed wrote:
I can believe that. In a restaurant in Germany a couple of weeks ago I >>>>> wanted to pay with my Visa card but their machine said "declined". With >>>>> increasing annoyance and slight embarrassment I then tried another Visa >>>>> card and a Mastercard. My wife tried one of hers. Same result each
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
time. I said that our cards had worked elsewhere that same day and
asked if their machine was faulty. The manager was called and brought >>>>> up another card machine - same results. Fortunately we had just enough >>>>> Euros between us. I am sure they were running some scam, but wasn't >>>>> sure what it was. I certainly didn't add on a tip. Being of a
suspicious nature, I checked immediately afterwards and none of our
cards had actually been charged. They might have stolen some details >>>>> but we've had no illicit charges in the days since then. So it remains >>>>> a mystery.
That could genuinely be the bank that controlled the restaurantrCOs card >>>> machines having a technical bad hair day. Or the restaurantrCOs Internet >>>> connection being down perhaps?
But why keep offering the machine to more diners, if all the ones
earlier in the day had been consistently declined?
Would the machine even say "declined" if it wasn't in contact with the
merchant services (modulo the whole thing being a skimming operation).
M&S till card machines showed declined during the start of their ransomware >> attack. I was trying to pay during the first few minutes of the event.
I had my card declined in the Co-op (before the attack). Luckily had
enough folding for the bill. Spoke to the manager the next day and he confirmed that they had an internet outage that day.
Cash is king!!
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The >>> chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >>> Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to
me.
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of >>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only Card >>>> Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting cashrCa. >>
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling fees, which may or may not be true.
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found
several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling fees, which may or may not be true.
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found
several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found
several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro
notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling fees, which may or may not be true.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Which might not be an issue if their outgoings are also in cash rather than the cash having to be banked.
Sam
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:It might be bleedin' obvious but that won't wash with a court which
On 17/08/2025 21:38, JMB99 wrote:
On 17/08/2025 19:40, Marland wrote:
Its bleedinga obvious that a barbers that only sees about 5 customers >>>> a day
canAt support the top of the range BMW car that the oownero rocks up
in to
see how his haplessa employee is up to.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2Like many others of them, the one down in town appears to be well
equipped with the latest equipment.
Often at least three of the staff outside playing on their mobile phones >>> and no customers inside.
There are comments online that are very similar from all over the UK.
So they're not doing what was suggested elsewhere in this subthread,
which is having lots of customers but concealing those who pay cash and
only paying tax on card-carrying visitors. If there is any wrongdoing,
which there may well be as you can't buy a BMW on five haircuts a day,
then it's of some other nature such as money laundering.
Yes, money laundering is the usual theory, plus potentially employing
asylum seekers. Ditto with the many hand car washes, with lots of swarthy >young men working, only one or two of whom speak any English.
Certes <Certes@example.org> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>> me.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found several >>>>>> places where cards were not accepted. I had taken the precaution of >>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>> notes. A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty Ferry. The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying oCash Only Card >>>>> Machine Brokeno.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting casha. >>>
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Yes, it may be true, because they do have to lay a fee on their credit card >transactions. But handling cash is also not free, and has additional risks. >So the main benefit of cash to a small business might be tax evasion.
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :)
Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found
several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several transactions.
-u20 passing back and forth via card machines and bank accounts with the the banks and card machine providers taking a cut on each transaction soon gets whittled down to nothing.
GH
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever >>>>>>> even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting
cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several transactions.
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several >> people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several
transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored
car to transport the cash to the bank).
ThererCOs also the risk
of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
On 19/08/2025 10:37, Recliner wrote:
ThererCOs also the risk
of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
And of course. if you find a counterfeit note there is no point in
reporting it as it will not be replaced. So people just keep quiet and
hope not noticed.
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>>>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several >>> people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several >>> transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the
daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored
car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which might need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There might also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the risk of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-charges.html
On 19/08/2025 10:37, Recliner wrote:
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of >>>>>>>>>> the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the
precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 >>>>>>>>>> Euro
notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem >>>>>>>>>> whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash >>>>>>>>> Only
Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether >>>>>>> that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or >>>>>>> because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is
unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their
handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed-a back and forth between
several
people for goods or services-a is still a -u20.note at the end of several >>>> transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the
daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored
car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it >> being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which
might
need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There
might
also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the risk >> of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-charges.html
And of course card machines are 100% secure all the time - or maybe not. Risks both ways, but with cash you can see the result, with electrons whizzing about you cannot see a problem until it is too late!
On 19/08/2025 10:37, Recliner wrote:
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>>>>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several
people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several >>>> transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the
daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored
car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it >> being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which might >> need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There might >> also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the risk >> of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-charges.html
And of course card machines are 100% secure all the time - or maybe not. >Risks both ways, but with cash you can see the result, with electrons >whizzing about you cannot see a problem until it is too late!
On 2025-08-18 22:06, Marland wrote:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum.
Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty
Ferry.-a The
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several >> people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several
transactions.
-u20 passing back and forth via card machines and bank accounts with the the >> banks and card machine providers taking a cut on each transaction soon gets >> whittled down to nothing.
GH
But, for example, if you were unlucky or careless enough to get that -u20 note out of a corner shop cash machine it may have cost you -u23.
nib
On 19/08/2025 12:26, ColinR wrote:
On 19/08/2025 10:37, Recliner wrote:
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of >>>>>>>>>>> the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the >>>>>>>>>>> precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as >>>>>>>>>>> 50 Euro
notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem >>>>>>>>>>> whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash >>>>>>>>>> Only
Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether >>>>>>>> that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or >>>>>>>> because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is
unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their >>>>>>> handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed-a back and forth between >>>>> several
people for goods or services-a is still a -u20.note at the end of
several
transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >>>> daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored >>>> car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it >>> being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which
might
need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There
might
also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the
risk
of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-
charges.html
And of course card machines are 100% secure all the time - or maybe
not. Risks both ways, but with cash you can see the result, with
electrons whizzing about you cannot see a problem until it is too late!
I'm not sure card machines defraud the retailer, unless they have chosen
to accept a card which the machine was unable to verify.
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of the last >>>>>>>>> countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the precaution of >>>>>>>>> getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as 50 Euro >>>>>>>>> notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash Only >>>>>>>> Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether that was >>>>>> just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or because >>>>>> they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is unknowable to >>>>>> me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their handling >>>>> fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed back and forth between several >>> people for goods or services is still a -u20.note at the end of several >>> transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the
daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored
car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which might need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There might also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the risk of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-charges.html
On 19/08/2025 12:31, Certes wrote:
On 19/08/2025 12:26, ColinR wrote:
On 19/08/2025 10:37, Recliner wrote:
Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
Am 18.08.2025 um 23:06 schrieb Marland:
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 18/08/2025 10:53, Certes wrote:
On 18/08/2025 09:16, Sam Wilson wrote:
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:56, Roland Perry wrote:Just over a week ago I paid cash for fish and chips in Broughty >>>>>>>>>>> Ferry.-a The
I'd be tempted to give them a -u50 note and see what happened :) >>>>>>>>>>>>Indeed you should.
In recent trips to Germany, which in my experience is one of >>>>>>>>>>>> the last
countries in Europe where cash still plays a major role, I found >>>>>>>>>>>> several
places where cards were not accepted.-a I had taken the >>>>>>>>>>>> precaution of
getting plenty of Euros from a ATM but these were mostly as >>>>>>>>>>>> 50 Euro
notes.-a A 50 Euro note was changed every time with no problem >>>>>>>>>>>> whatever
even for just an ice-cream, bus ticket, or entry to a museum. >>>>>>>>>>>
chip shop had a handwritten sign (on a paper bag) saying rCLCash >>>>>>>>>>> Only
Card
Machine BrokenrCY.
Card machine broken is rarely the true reason why they are wanting >>>>>>>>>> cashrCa.
The chip shop staff were clearly somewhat stressed, but whether >>>>>>>>> that was
just because they were having to potentially turn custom away or >>>>>>>>> because
they urgently needed the cash for some nefarious reason is
unknowable to
me.
Many places have informal signs stating that cash reduces their >>>>>>>> handling
fees, which may or may not be true.
Except they don't take into account the cost of handling cash.
Yes but a lets say -u20 note that is passed-a back and forth between >>>>>> several
people for goods or services-a is still a -u20.note at the end of >>>>>> several
transactions.
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away >>>>> from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >>>>> daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to >>>>> bring the cah to a bank (in larger businesses he has to hire an armored >>>>> car to transport the cash to the bank).
Plus banks charge businesses to deposit cash. And thererCOs the risk of it >>>> being stolen (petty pilfering by staff, or organised robbers), which
might
need to be covered by extra insurance if the amounts are large. There >>>> might
also need to be a substantial safe, or secure room. ThererCOs also the >>>> risk
of accepting counterfeit notes or coins.
https://www.lloydsbank.com/business/commercial-banking/rates-and-
charges.html
And of course card machines are 100% secure all the time - or maybe
not. Risks both ways, but with cash you can see the result, with
electrons whizzing about you cannot see a problem until it is too late!
I'm not sure card machines defraud the retailer, unless they have chosen
to accept a card which the machine was unable to verify.
Not the retailer, the customer!
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 Aug
2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank
Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 Aug
2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the
daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank
Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
But it might leave from there.
On 20/08/2025 08:47, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 Aug
2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >>> daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to
bring the cah to a bank
Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
But it might leave from there.
???
ColinR <rail@greystane.shetland.co.uk> posted:
On 20/08/2025 08:47, Ulf Kutzner wrote:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 Aug >>>> 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away >>>> >from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle the >>>>> daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time to >>>>> bring the cah to a bank
Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
But it might leave from there.
???
Banks may close, at least their minor branches.
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 Aug
2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays away
from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time
to bring the cah to a bank
Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time
to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >>>the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >>>to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time
to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is
towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
And with six branches of a given bank might become two.
In message <1755768227-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:23:47 on Thu, 21 Aug 2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >> >>>to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is >> towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
And with six branches of a given bank might become two.
Not sure there are many towns at all with six branches of the same bank.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1755768227-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:23:47 on Thu, 21 Aug
2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 AugAnd with six branches of a given bank might become two.
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining >> >> bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is >> >> towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches. >> >
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >> >> >>>the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >> >> >>>to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate. >> >>
Not sure there are many towns at all with six branches of the same bank.
I believe it was not rare for savings banks here [TM].
In message <1755771722-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 10:22:02 on Thu, 21 Aug 2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1755768227-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:23:47 on Thu, 21 Aug >> 2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug >> >> 2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:And with six branches of a given bank might become two.
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining >> >> bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 >> >> >>Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >> >> >>>the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time
to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate. >> >>
towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches. >> >
Not sure there are many towns at all with six branches of the same bank.
I believe it was not rare for savings banks here [TM].
"Was not", when? The 19th Century?
In message <1755771722-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 10:22:02 on Thu, 21 Aug 2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1755768227-2991@newsgrouper.org>, at 09:23:47 on Thu, 21 Aug >> 2025, Ulf Kutzner <user2991@newsgrouper.org.invalid> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> posted:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug >> >> 2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:And with six branches of a given bank might become two.
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining >> >> bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 >> >> >>Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >> >> >>>the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time
to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate. >> >>
towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches. >> >
Not sure there are many towns at all with six branches of the same bank.
I believe it was not rare for savings banks here [TM].
"Was not", when? The 19th Century?
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >>>> to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
I also understand that Nationwide (although not strictly a bank) isn't closing many, indeed has a policy not to close any before 2028. [Up
until July 2022 it was closing about one a month, from its chain of 600]
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle
the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >>>>> to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is
towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
I also understand that Nationwide (although not strictly a bank) isn't
closing many, indeed has a policy not to close any before 2028. [Up
until July 2022 it was closing about one a month, from its chain of 600]
It might meet with opposition, but they are now leaving some towns without >any bank at all. Market Harborough (population 25k) has lost all of its
bank branches. It still has a Nationwide, but as has been said, it is not >really a bank.
In message <1086utp$tbls$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:53 on Thu, 21 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 Aug
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19
Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and staysOnly if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
away from banks.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >>>>>> the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >>>>>> to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate.
Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining
bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is >>> towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches.
I also understand that Nationwide (although not strictly a bank) isn't
closing many, indeed has a policy not to close any before 2028. [Up
until July 2022 it was closing about one a month, from its chain of 600]
It might meet with opposition, but they are now leaving some towns without >> any bank at all. Market Harborough (population 25k) has lost all of its
bank branches. It still has a Nationwide, but as has been said, it is not
really a bank.
But it does allow people to pay in cash - which is the thing under discussion.
In a very limited fashion. ThererCOs limits on the amount of banknotes they will accept and
rCLWe do not accept any coins from businesses or traderCY
Perhaps this might change soon. One of their reasons for buying Virgin
Money was to expand into business banking.
Just as an example of how they arenrCOt really a bank, I went into my Nationwide branch (Lloyds shuts on a Friday now) to ask for ten one pound coins (my emergency reserve kept in the car for parking machines that wonrCOt work in any other fashion, eg my local hospital). There was much sucking through of teeth as I offered a ten pound note.
Are you a customer sir?
Yes
IrCOll just have to go round the back to see if we have that many coins.
On return
Yes we have the coins. But first you have to pay that note into your
account and then I can withdraw it as these coins.
So not really set up for cash handling even for non business users.
On 21/08/2025 12:57, Tweed wrote:
In a very limited fashion. ThererCOs limits on the amount of banknotes they >> will accept and
rCLWe do not accept any coins from businesses or traderCY
Perhaps this might change soon. One of their reasons for buying Virgin
Money was to expand into business banking.
Just as an example of how they arenrCOt really a bank, I went into my
Nationwide branch (Lloyds shuts on a Friday now) to ask for ten one pound
coins (my emergency reserve kept in the car for parking machines that wonrCOt
work in any other fashion, eg my local hospital). There was much sucking
through of teeth as I offered a ten pound note.
Are you a customer sir?
Yes
IrCOll just have to go round the back to see if we have that many coins.
On return
Yes we have the coins. But first you have to pay that note into your
account and then I can withdraw it as these coins.
So not really set up for cash handling even for non business users.
I have stocked up with pound coins several time. Not had any problem
but they have always asked if I was a customer and I showed them my
cheque book.
I have usually stopped first at their cash machine and drawn out some readies.
Not been complicated by my account being at a bank branch several
hundred miles away and an 'English' bank though same group as the local 'Scottish' bank.
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 21/08/2025 12:57, Tweed wrote:Are you talking about Nationwide?
In a very limited fashion. ThererCOs limits on the amount of banknotes they >>> will accept and
rCLWe do not accept any coins from businesses or traderCY
Perhaps this might change soon. One of their reasons for buying Virgin
Money was to expand into business banking.
Just as an example of how they arenrCOt really a bank, I went into my
Nationwide branch (Lloyds shuts on a Friday now) to ask for ten one pound >>> coins (my emergency reserve kept in the car for parking machines that wonrCOt
work in any other fashion, eg my local hospital). There was much sucking >>> through of teeth as I offered a ten pound note.
Are you a customer sir?
Yes
IrCOll just have to go round the back to see if we have that many coins. >>> On return
Yes we have the coins. But first you have to pay that note into your
account and then I can withdraw it as these coins.
So not really set up for cash handling even for non business users.
I have stocked up with pound coins several time. Not had any problem
but they have always asked if I was a customer and I showed them my
cheque book.
I have usually stopped first at their cash machine and drawn out some
readies.
Not been complicated by my account being at a bank branch several
hundred miles away and an 'English' bank though same group as the local
'Scottish' bank.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
On 21/08/2025 12:57, Tweed wrote:Are you talking about Nationwide?
In a very limited fashion. ThererCOs limits on the amount of banknotes they
will accept and
rCLWe do not accept any coins from businesses or traderCY
Perhaps this might change soon. One of their reasons for buying Virgin >>>> Money was to expand into business banking.
Just as an example of how they arenrCOt really a bank, I went into my
Nationwide branch (Lloyds shuts on a Friday now) to ask for ten one pound >>>> coins (my emergency reserve kept in the car for parking machines that wonrCOt
work in any other fashion, eg my local hospital). There was much sucking >>>> through of teeth as I offered a ten pound note.
Are you a customer sir?
Yes
IrCOll just have to go round the back to see if we have that many coins. >>>> On return
Yes we have the coins. But first you have to pay that note into your
account and then I can withdraw it as these coins.
So not really set up for cash handling even for non business users.
I have stocked up with pound coins several time. Not had any problem
but they have always asked if I was a customer and I showed them my
cheque book.
I have usually stopped first at their cash machine and drawn out some
readies.
Not been complicated by my account being at a bank branch several
hundred miles away and an 'English' bank though same group as the local
'Scottish' bank.
NatWest, surely?
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1086utp$tbls$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:53 on Thu, 21 Aug
2025, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <1084psd$dgd9$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:33 on Wed, 20 AugIt might meet with opposition, but they are now leaving some towns without >>> any bank at all. Market Harborough (population 25k) has lost all of its
2025, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
On 20/08/2025 08:39, Roland Perry wrote:Most of the rural ones are already shut, and closing the last remaining >>>> bank in a town is likely to meet with opposition. So what's happening is >>>> towns with five branches of different banks might become four branches. >>>> I also understand that Nationwide (although not strictly a bank) isn't >>>> closing many, indeed has a policy not to close any before 2028. [Up
In message <1081cth$3kktk$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:33:53 on Tue, 19 >>>>>> Aug 2025, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
"Cash handling" is free as long as the cash circulates and stays >>>>>>> away from banks.Only if the bank is a long distance away. It might be next door.
As soon as a shop owner has a cash flow that requires him to handle >>>>>>> the daily income, he has to spend an hour or more of his working time >>>>>>> to bring the cah to a bank
Less and less likely with bank branches closing at an increasing rate. >>>>
until July 2022 it was closing about one a month, from its chain of 600] >>>
bank branches. It still has a Nationwide, but as has been said, it is not >>> really a bank.
But it does allow people to pay in cash - which is the thing under
discussion.
In a very limited fashion. ThererCOs limits on the amount of banknotes they >will accept
and
rCLWe do not accept any coins from businesses or traderCY
Perhaps this might change soon. One of their reasons for buying Virgin
Money was to expand into business banking.
Just as an example of how they arenrCOt really a bank, I went into my >Nationwide branch (Lloyds shuts on a Friday now) to ask for ten one pound >coins (my emergency reserve kept in the car for parking machines that wonrCOt >work in any other fashion, eg my local hospital).
There was much sucking through of teeth as I offered a ten pound note.
Are you a customer sir?
Yes
IrCOll just have to go round the back to see if we have that many coins.
On return
Yes we have the coins. But first you have to pay that note into your
account and then I can withdraw it as these coins.
So not really set up for cash handling even for non business users.
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common, for example at NatWest.
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common,
for example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed
them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Roland Perry wrote:
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common, for
example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed
them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Andy Burns wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed
them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Why would the staff not empty them? When I was at work, in general
terms we did what the management told us to do.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:40:14 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common, for >>> example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed >>them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Why would the staff not empty them? When I was at work, in general
terms we did what the management told us to do.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:24:19 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:40:14 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>More likely would not be emptying them because they are already
wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common, for >>>> example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed
them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Why would the staff not empty them? When I was at work, in general
terms we did what the management told us to do.
carrying out other tasks, the bank having failed to plan adequate
management of the machine.
On 22/08/2025 23:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:24:19 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:40:14 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>More likely would not be emptying them because they are already
wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more common, for >>>>> example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed >>>> them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the
staff wouldn't empty them.
Why would the staff not empty them? When I was at work, in general
terms we did what the management told us to do.
carrying out other tasks, the bank having failed to plan adequate
management of the machine.
Most likely the machines are not emptied by back staff but the bank's
secure courier contractor.
In message <108l5mi$7rm8$2@dont-email.me>, at 21:33:22 on Tue, 26 Aug
2025, Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> remarked:
On 22/08/2025 23:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 15:24:19 +0100, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 13:40:14 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>More likely would not be emptying them because they are already
wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
However, in-branch coin-counting machines are becoming more
common, for
example at NatWest.
Barclays introduced them about 5-6 years ago, and have already removed >>>>> them, they were often out of service, or filled up mid count and the >>>>> staff wouldn't empty them.
Why would the staff not empty them? When I was at work, in general
terms we did what the management told us to do.
carrying out other tasks, the bank having failed to plan adequate
management of the machine.
Most likely the machines are not emptied by back staff but the bank's
secure courier contractor.
NatWest's contractors only swap containers of <whatever> with staff the other side of an airlock to the back-office. I'd have to look more
closely at the coin counting machine to see if it was emptied
customer-side, or like their ATMs back-office side.
On 16/08/2025 08:41, JMB99 wrote:
On 15/08/2025 16:04, Graeme Wall wrote:
Nobody looks out of the windows. As soon as they sit down out comes
the phone or tablet and they are buried in that for the rest of the
journey.
Is that any worse that sitting reading The Sun or latest Mills & Boon
book as might happen in the past?
Just goes to show the travelling public doesn't really care about window alignment.
