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Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in the
days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a d-i-y
job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough explosives
to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that >> I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in the
days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a d-i-y
job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough explosives
to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n
C3 that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are
likely to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing
until November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily
available anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at
-u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I
could get one at my age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car
either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident
and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. Fortunately I live
in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I
still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all
over the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as
this will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted.
But that would mean that those in the front seats would no longer
be protected, but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age
put up with in the days before air-bags were routinely fitted.
It's presumably not a d-i-y job to remove them though - as they
obviously contain enough explosives to kill someone, in the worst
case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at
all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags
has made anything like the difference that came about from using seat
belts,
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car with
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely
to go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover
a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am
not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk
far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers.
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to go-
off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely
to go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover
a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am
not covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there
are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted.-a-a But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in the
days before air-bags were routinely fitted.-a It's presumably not a d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough explosives
to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
This recall has been in the news for a while now, so whoever sold you
the car knew about it. Indeed, they'd probably already had a letter from Citroen very similar to yours.
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely
to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but
that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my
age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer
or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then
I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot
walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I
would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a
d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement
to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
On Tue, 8/26/2025 7:06 AM, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
https://news.sky.com/story/citroen-urged-to-fix-chaotic-recall-and-pay-compensation-to-affected-drivers-13408540
"our Peugeot network is now authorised to replace airbags on these cars in addition to at-home options."
But as you say, a lot of these campaigns were the same, they started with no stock of
replacement items. And it looks like a Takata issue (shrapnel), and the recall involves
more than one country (which doesn't make parts availability all that easy). There were
something like 35 million of these things that needed swapping, and the replacement campaign
started a long time ago. Yours is on the order of a hundred thousand or so.
"un gaz propulseur, du nitrate d'amomnium, qui peut se d|-grader avec le temps"
One reason some of us did not panic when it was our turn, was because the failures depend on the
weather and conditions in each country. Temperature and humidity play a role in destabilizing the propellant. The propellant is supposed to act as an "inflator" and if the reaction velocity is too high, it behaves like a bomb instead.
I think Florida had more of these failures than cooler places.
*******
https://www.parkers.co.uk/car-news/recalls/citroen-ds-airbags/
"early appointments are opening up"
"The situation is improving although replacement airbags are a
slightly different spec to those replaced, as we found with our own car."
It sounds like you should be phoning around, like maybe two towns over might have the parts. It could be, if you're rural there would be no rush.
I believe one of mine was done as a "while you wait", meant sitting
in a chair for two or three hours. Going home and coming back to pick
up the car, wasn't an option for me, so I stayed there after I brought it
in, and it took a while.
Maybe it's only going to take you two weeks to get this done.
Paul
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely >>>>> to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my
age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then >>>>> I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot >>>>> walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I
would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this >>>> will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected, >>>> but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a
d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement
to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything
like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt
researched the numbers.
-a50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
On 26/08/2025 18:00, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement >>>> to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely >>>>>> to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my >>>>>> age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then >>>>>> I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot >>>>>> walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I >>>>>> would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over >>>>> the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this >>>>> will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected, >>>>> but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a >>>>> d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all. >>>>
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a
fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
Many years ago (late 1960s?) there was a spoof article in one of the national broadsheets.-a It was headlined "The safest car on the road".
It featured cardboard bodywork, a sharp spike in the middle of the
steering column, bald tyres, no speedometer, no seat belts and a
windscreen made of ordinary window glass.-a The article argued that if
all cars were designed like that there would be far fewer accidents.
Many years ago (late 1960s?) there was a spoof article in one of the
national broadsheets.-a It was headlined "The safest car on the road".
It featured cardboard bodywork, a sharp spike in the middle of the
steering column, bald tyres, no speedometer, no seat belts and a
windscreen made of ordinary window glass.-a The article argued that if
all cars were designed like that there would be far fewer accidents.
But ... apart from the spike (although non-collapsing steering columns
may have come close) ... most of those were features of old cars, and
there were many more accidents per mile then than there are now!
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to >>> wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like >>> the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>> researched the numbers.
-a-a50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the car.
Seat belts happened before 1979
On 26/08/2025 18:43, Tim+ wrote:Nope, the risk is that you get killed or seriously injured by the
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the >> car.
The risk is that the airbag goes off, causing a serious accident.
On 26/08/2025 18:00, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement >>>> to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely >>>>>> to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my >>>>>> age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then >>>>>> I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot >>>>>> walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I >>>>>> would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over >>>>> the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this >>>>> will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected, >>>>> but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a >>>>> d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all. >>>>
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a
fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
Many years ago (late 1960s?) there was a spoof article in one of the national broadsheets.-a It was headlined "The safest car on the road".
It featured cardboard bodywork, a sharp spike in the middle of the
steering column, bald tyres, no speedometer, no seat belts and a
windscreen made of ordinary window glass.-a The article argued that if
all cars were designed like that there would be far fewer accidents.
On 26/08/2025 18:43, Tim+ wrote:
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the
car.
-aThe risk is that the airbag goes off, causing a serious accident.
On 26/08/2025 19:27, Indy Jess John wrote:As the Ukraine has just discovered
On 26/08/2025 18:00, Jethro_uk wrote:But would you be prepared to be (one of) the first to have such a car, > whilst everyone else drives more typical models?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Many years ago (late 1960s?) there was a spoof article in one of the >> national broadsheets. It was headlined "The safest car on the road".>> It featured cardboard bodywork, a sharp spike in the middle of the >> steering column, bald tyres, no speedometer, no seat belts and a >> windscreen made of ordinary window glass. The article argued that if >> all cars were designed like that there would be far fewer accidents.
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are >>>>>>> likely
to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, >>>>>>> but
that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my >>>>>>> age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the >>>>>>> dealer
or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, >>>>>>> then
I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I >>>>>>> cannot
walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I >>>>>>> would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all >>>>>> over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as >>>>>> this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that >>>>>> would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be >>>>>> protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in >>>>>> the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not >>>>>> a
d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough >>>>>> explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy >>>>>> air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at >>>>>> all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the >>>>> requirement
to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in>>>>> passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be >>> a
fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
It's a bit like the proposal for unilateral nuclear disarmament - it's a > great moral argument, but it leaves you entirely at the mercy of > everyone else.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 07:22:37 +1000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 18:43, Tim+ wrote:
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being >>> killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the car.
-a The risk is that the airbag goes off, causing a serious accident.
Nope, the risk is that you get killed or seriously injured by the
shrapnel when it goes off in a serious collision with something
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Seat belts happened before 1979
Yes but they were not fitted in all cars. I fitted my own in my 1961 Triumph Herald and my 1964 Ford Cortina.
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[quoted text muted]
Yes, and wearing front seat belts was common by the requirement in
1983.
It's a bit like the proposal for unilateral nuclear disarmament - it's a great moral argument, but it leaves you entirely at the mercy of
everyone else.
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>> researched the numbers.
-a-a50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
The legislation is not retrospective.-a It is perfectly legal to drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts have
been fitted.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 22:20:51 +0100, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[quoted text muted]
Yes, and wearing front seat belts was common by the requirement in
1983.
I am just old enough that when I took my test, I did not need to wear a seatbelt. However my instructor (my Dad) made me wear one as the change
in the law was signalled, and there were warnings that if you forgot your belt on your test after the law change you'd fail (the examiner would not remind you).
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:There was quite a gap between seat belts having to be installed in new
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>>> researched the numbers.
-a-a50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
cars (fixings allowing installation compulsory in 1965, having seat
belts pre-installed in cars in 1968 and having to wear the seat belts in
the front seats in 1983) and the legal obligation for every adult in the
car to wear the seat belts fitted, in 1991.
The legislation is not retrospective. It is perfectly legal to drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts have
been fitted.
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:
The legislation is not retrospective.-a It is perfectly legal to drive
a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts
have been fitted.
Indeed. I saw someone killed like that.
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:There was quite a gap between seat belts having to be installed in new
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenat >>>> researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
cars (fixings allowing installation compulsory in 1965, having seat
belts pre-installed in cars in 1968 and having to wear the seat belts in the front seats in 1983) and the legal obligation for every adult in the car to wear the seat belts fitted, in 1991.
The legislation is not retrospective. It is perfectly legal to drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts have
been fitted.
I always wore one (it was a fixed over-the-shoulder and lap belt. Were retractable ones available then?)
from day one in my 1967 HB Viva. About--
a year after I bought it in 1972 a Ford Escort pulled out in front of me when I was doing 35 - 40mph on a wet road, and less than 5 yards way. I
hit the car just behind the driver's door, which flew open. The driver wasn't wearing a belt and he was thrown out of the car as it spun round.
I never found out what happened to him (my insurance company said that I shouldn't ask). I broke a bone in my hand with the shock which was transmitted up the steering shaft and onto the wheel. I hate to think
what would have happened if, like most drivers at the time, I hadn't
been wearing the seat belt.
--
On 27/08/2025 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:I've always been surprised that the authorities didn't make use in a
The legislation is not retrospective.-a It is perfectly legal to drive
a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts
have been fitted.
Indeed. I saw someone killed like that.
road safety campaign of the awful example of the crash that killed
Princess Diana.-a There were four people in that car, two were wearing seat-belts and they were the two who survived.
On 27/08/2025 01:48, Sam Plusnet wrote:
It's a bit like the proposal for unilateral nuclear disarmament - it's
a great moral argument, but it leaves you entirely at the mercy of
everyone else.
Yes, the argument that 'without nuclear weapons, no one will want to
attack us' worked well for Ukraine, didn't it?
Except by my grandad. He wouldn't wear one on a point of principle: he wouldn't be told what to do by the government. At least I think that was
the essence of his argument. Never got nicked though, and he was driving
well into his 80s.
The legislation is not retrospective. It is perfectly legal to drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts have
been fitted.
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to >> wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like >> the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt
researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to >>> wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like >>> the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>> researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
From those figures:
1979-1985 Average = 1038
2004-2010 Average = 530
ButrCa
1992-1998 Average = 461
The requirement to wear seat belts by rear-seat passengers became
compulsory in 1991. So perhaps the figures for the reduction in deaths due
to all seat-belt wearing should be compared with the period before compulsion.
1976-1982 Average 1125.
So comparing before and after gives a fall in numbers of 1125-461 = 664 or 59%
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that >>> I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer >>> because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. >>> Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are >>> taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. >>> Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in the
days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a d-i-y
job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough explosives
to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car with disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in passive safety in motor vehicle
construction.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 10:12:02 +0000, RJH wrote:Nobody ever claimed that nothing the EU did was in fact completely wrong.
Except by my grandad. He wouldn't wear one on a point of principle: he
wouldn't be told what to do by the government. At least I think that was
the essence of his argument. Never got nicked though, and he was driving
well into his 80s.
Yes, along with the smoking ban, the sky is still in place.
Funny how no one is campaigning to reverse that now we are out of the
EU ....
Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to >> wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like >> the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt
researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car with disabled air-bags only
changes onerCOs risk level to that of the pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the
improvements made meanwhile in passive safety in motor vehicle
construction.
About 20 years ago, I was a front seat passenger in a car in a car with
only a driver airbag involved in a nasty accident - not the driverrCOs fault.
I vividly recall seeing the driverrCOs airbag inflate and thinking rCywhere is
mine?rCO.
Both cars were write offs. Everyone walked away, unhurt.
The driver of the other car had rCyhistoryrCO. The local police turned up and knew him.
My friend- a work colleague- eventually extracted the money, or his
insurers did I suppose.
On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 10:38:37 +0100, Indy Jess John wrote:
The legislation is not retrospective. It is perfectly legal to drive a
pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts have
been fitted.
Incorrect.
I had to fit seatbelts to at least one car that had been registered after 1986 (AIR) with no rear seatbelts. It was that or no MOT.
The tester was going by his book o'rules which specified date of registration, not manufacture.
I also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted with
it.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
Many years ago (late 1960s?) there was a spoof article in one of the >national broadsheets. It was headlined "The safest car on the road".
It featured cardboard bodywork, a sharp spike in the middle of the
steering column, bald tyres, no speedometer, no seat belts and a
windscreen made of ordinary window glass. The article argued that if
all cars were designed like that there would be far fewer accidents.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 12:27:31 +0100, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu>
wrote:
[snip]
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
But if OP is not coverered (by insurance) for driving with a 'dodgy'
air-bag, surely it follows he would not be covered for driving with no air-bag protection? Indeed, would he have to declare this as a
modification from the manufacturer's original specification?
On 27/08/2025 12:21, Clive Page wrote:
On 27/08/2025 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Bad taste. But it illustrates the point.
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:I've always been surprised that the authorities didn't make use in a
The legislation is not retrospective.-a It is perfectly legal to
drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat
belts have been fitted.
Indeed. I saw someone killed like that.
road safety campaign of the awful example of the crash that killed
Princess Diana.-a There were four people in that car, two were wearing
seat-belts and they were the two who survived.
Can you imagine the Peoples Princess 'too dumb to wear a seat belt'...
On 27/08/2025 16:44, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 12:27:31 +0100, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu>
wrote:
[snip]
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
But if OP is not coverered (by insurance) for driving with a 'dodgy'
air-bag, surely it follows he would not be covered for driving with no
air-bag protection? Indeed, would he have to declare this as a
modification from the manufacturer's original specification?
Any clause claiming he is not covered (TP) for driving a dodgy car is
invalid. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 12:27:31 +0100, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu>
wrote:
[snip]
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
But if OP is not coverered (by insurance) for driving with a 'dodgy'
air-bag, surely it follows he would not be covered for driving with no air-bag protection?
I also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted with it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
Wasn't manadatory when I passed my test - but I don't rememember any objection >to wearing one, it was pretty much universally adopted without complaint.
Except by my grandad. He wouldn't wear one on a point of principle: he >wouldn't be told what to do by the government. At least I think that was the >essence of his argument. Never got nicked though, and he was driving well into >his 80s.
On 27/08/2025 12:21, Clive Page wrote:
On 27/08/2025 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Bad taste. But it illustrates the point.
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:I've always been surprised that the authorities didn't make use in a
The legislation is not retrospective.a It is perfectly legal to drive >>>> a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat belts
have been fitted.
Indeed. I saw someone killed like that.
road safety campaign of the awful example of the crash that killed
Princess Diana.a There were four people in that car, two were wearing
seat-belts and they were the two who survived.
Can you imagine the Peoples Princess 'too dumb to wear a seat belt'...
On 27/08/2025 12:53, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/08/2025 12:21, Clive Page wrote:I agree that it wouldn't have been in good taste.-a But sometimes a statement that is true but in bad taste might be a sufficient of a
On 27/08/2025 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Bad taste. But it illustrates the point.
On 27/08/2025 10:38, Indy Jess John wrote:I've always been surprised that the authorities didn't make use in a
The legislation is not retrospective.-a It is perfectly legal to
drive a pre-1964 car without wearing a seat belt, provided no seat
belts have been fitted.
Indeed. I saw someone killed like that.
road safety campaign of the awful example of the crash that killed
Princess Diana.-a There were four people in that car, two were wearing
seat-belts and they were the two who survived.
Can you imagine the Peoples Princess 'too dumb to wear a seat belt'...
surprise that it would have useful effects, e.g. in persuading motorists
not to follow the example of the People's Princess when they are in a
car going a high speed.
Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement to >>> wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made anything like >>> the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>> researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
From those figures:
1979-1985 Average = 1038
2004-2010 Average = 530
ButrCa
1992-1998 Average = 461
The requirement to wear seat belts by rear-seat passengers became
compulsory in 1991. So perhaps the figures for the reduction in deaths due
to all seat-belt wearing should be compared with the period before compulsion.
1976-1982 Average 1125.
So comparing before and after gives a fall in numbers of 1125-461 = 664 or 59%
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Haven't they gone out of fashion though now? No one turns them on forI also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's
technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted with >>> it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
the very good reason that they simply dazzle the person behind with
glowing red fog and don't help in judging distance to the car in front.
On 27/08/2025 18:38, Chris Green wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most people don't turn them on because they don't think of it.
Haven't they gone out of fashion though now?-a No one turns them on forI also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's
technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted
with
it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
the very good reason that they simply dazzle the person behind with
glowing red fog and don't help in judging distance to the car in front.
The best change ever was when those fog lamps defaulted to "OFF"
whenever you turned off the ignition.
Prior to that, people would switch them on at the slightest hint of fog,
and they would remain on for the next month or so.
On 27/08/2025 18:38, Chris Green wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most people don't turn them on because they don't think of it.
Haven't they gone out of fashion though now?-a No one turns them on forI also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's
technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted
with
it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
the very good reason that they simply dazzle the person behind with
glowing red fog and don't help in judging distance to the car in front.
The best change ever was when those fog lamps defaulted to "OFF"
whenever you turned off the ignition.
Prior to that, people would switch them on at the slightest hint of fog,
and they would remain on for the next month or so.
On 27/08/2025 20:56, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 27/08/2025 18:38, Chris Green wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most people don't turn them on because they don't think of it.
Haven't they gone out of fashion though now?-a No one turns them on forI also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's >>>>> technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not
fitted with
it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
the very good reason that they simply dazzle the person behind with
glowing red fog and don't help in judging distance to the car in front.
Well I do. In serious fog it gives the driver behind going too fast
another half second. If it dazzles you, you are a tailpipe twat anuway.
Back off
The best change ever was when those fog lamps defaulted to "OFF"The one that pisses me off is front foglamps when there is no fog
whenever you turned off the ignition.
Prior to that, people would switch them on at the slightest hint of
fog, and they would remain on for the next month or so.
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* than rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the car.
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>> researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
On 26/08/2025 19:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Seat belts happened before 1979
Yes but they were not fitted in all cars. I fitted my own in my 1961
Triumph Herald and my 1964 Ford Cortina.
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:How are the cops going to know that you have turned off the airbags ?
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the > vehicle
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my >>> insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not >>> covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally >>> isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* >> than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no
effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the >> car.
and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated that > cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving > without valid insurance.That isnt what determies driving without valid insurance
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that >>> I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer >>> because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not covered. >>> Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally isolated. >>> Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no
effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the car.
that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving without valid insurance.
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are >>>> taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY.-a-a The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being >>> killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the car.
vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated
that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
+1
And how would you prove that the airbag inflated as a result of a crash, rather than just before and perhaps causing it?
On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 09:12:00 +1000, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are >>>> taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being >>> killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the car.
Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of
the vehicle
How are the cops going to know that you have turned off the airbags ?
and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated that
cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
That isnt what determies driving without valid insurance
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:Bullshit
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:+1
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to>>>> go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover >>>> a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my >>>> insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not >>>> covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there >>>> are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally >>>> isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* >>> than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND >>> being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using the >>> car.
vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated
that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
And how would you prove that the airbag inflated as a result of a crash, > rather than just before and perhaps causing it?Trivial if there is dashcam video or surveillane video
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3
that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are >>>> taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being >>> killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the car.
vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated
that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
+1
And how would you prove that the airbag inflated as a result of a crash, rather than just before and perhaps causing it?
My fog driving rule: if you're finding it easier to see other cars with headlights and fog lights, switch yours on. Otherwise, don't.+1. Although that doesn' t really apply to low slung riding lights
On 28/08/2025 03:05 AM, Rod Speed wrote:Irrelevant to your stupid claim that that would allow
On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 09:12:00 +1000, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:They don't need to.
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the >>>>> parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not >>>>> cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there >>>>> are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND >>>> being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the car.
Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of
the vehicle
How are the cops going to know that you have turned off the airbags ?>
From CoPilot, in response o a direct question about the Takata air-bags > safety recall and Do Not Drive" order):
and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated that
cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
That isnt what determies driving without valid insurance
QUOTE:
British car insurance companiesrCoand consumer rights expertsrCohave made it > clear that driving a Citro|2n C3 subject to a rCLdo not driverCY safety > recall could invalidate your insurance.
The recall affects certain Citro|2n C3 and DS3 models fitted with Takata > airbags, which can become dangerously unstable over time. Stellantis, > Citro|2nrCOs parent company, issued an urgent stop-drive order for around > 120,000 UK vehicles, instructing owners not to drive them under any > circumstances until repairs are completed.Irrelevant to your stupid claim that that would allow
Driving the vehicle despite this warning can have serious consequences:
- Insurance invalidation: If you ignore the stop-drive order and are > involved in an accident, your insurer may refuse to pay out on any claim.
- Legal penalties: You could face fines, penalty points, or even a > driving ban for operating a vehicle deemed unsafeYes
[or without adequate third party insurance - Ed.].That's bullshit
According to Martin LewisrCO MoneySavingExpert team and consumer rights > advocates, the law is firmly on the side of consumers when it comes to > repair obligations rCo but only if the vehicle is not driven while under > recall.Irrelevant to your stupid claim that that would allow
If your Citro|2n C3 is affected, the safest course is to:
- Immediately stop driving it.
- Register for the recall repair via Citro|2nrCOs website or helpline.
- Document all correspondence and delays for consumer protection
purposes.
ENDQUOTE
We have a C3 and had the safety recall notice before the "Do Not Drive" > order and were lucky enough to have the work done very promptly, but > were not issued with any documentation to the effect that the work had > been done. There was quite a battle with the dealer, and involving > Citroen UK, before we were given a letter of certification - produceable > to the insurer or the police - to the effect that the work had indeed > been done.Irrelevant to your stupid claim that that would allow
On 26/08/2025 07:29 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes.
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and havenrCOt >>>> researched the numbers.
-a 50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
...collapsible steering columns...
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:
On 26/08/2025 07:29 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 14:37, Nick Finnigan wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:Seat belts happened before 1979
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement to
wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like
the difference that came about from using seat belts, BICBW and
havenrCOt
researched the numbers.
50% drop 2004 - 2010 compared with 15% 1979 - 1985
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66f44bd130536cb927482733/ras0101.ods
MANY other things other than airbags were fitted in the 80s and 90s.
Crumple zones, side impact bars...
...collapsible steering columns...
Yes.
A steering column through te chest was a major cause of death
The whole safety culture was rational then: It looked at reasons why
people died or had accidents in the first place, unlike today when they 'assume' it's just 'going too fast'
On 28/08/2025 08:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:The engine management system will probably be keeping a record of events during the 10 seconds or so before the crash. If the airbag detonated
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the >>>>> parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a >>>>> hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are >>>>> taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY.-a-a The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no
effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND being >>>> killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the car.
vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated
that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
+1
And how would you prove that the airbag inflated as a result of a crash,
rather than just before and perhaps causing it?
just before the crash the monitoring circuit which checks the
integrity of the initiator circuit would notice an open circuit and
record this event.
On 28/08/2025 09:22, John R Walliker wrote:
On 28/08/2025 08:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 28/08/2025 00:12, JNugent wrote:The engine management system will probably be keeping a record of events
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of the >>>> vehicle and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated >>>> that cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving >>>> without valid insurance.
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to >>>>>> go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the >>>>>> parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not
cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far,
there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* >>>>> than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>>>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND
being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using >>>>> the car.
+1
And how would you prove that the airbag inflated as a result of a crash, >>> rather than just before and perhaps causing it?
during the 10 seconds or so before the crash. If the airbag detonated
just before the crash the monitoring circuit which checks the
integrity of the initiator circuit would notice an open circuit and
record this event.
Well, it seems that the car can be driven - at least to an MOT! This is
from <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-special-notice-03-25-testing-vehicles-affected-by-the-citroen-stop-drive-recall/mot-special-notice-03-25-testing-vehicles-affected-by-the-citroen-stop-drive-recall>,
published on 12 August:
----------------------------------------------------------------
What to do if the vehicle is affected
You can MOT test the vehicle as normal. The affected vehicles will only
cause a problem in the event of an airbag deployment because of an
accident.
You should issue a rCymanual advisoryrCO with the following text:
rCLThis vehicle has an outstanding recall. Contact Citro|2n for information and to arrange a free repair.rCY ----------------------------------------------------------------
Note that "The affected vehicles will only cause a problem in the event
of an airbag deployment because of an accident."
How does that tie in with the info here: <https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/stellantis-issues-rare-stop-drive-recall-for-uk-drivers-adbx11x1JNof>:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stellantis, the parent company of Citroen, has recalled tens of
thousands of Citroen and DS models in the UK due to faulty airbags that
rCo in some circumstances rCo can explode in an uncontrolled manner, causing injury or even death. ----------------------------------------------------------------
They can't both be right.
Well, it seems that the car can be driven - at least to an MOT! This is
from <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-special-notice-03-25-testing-vehicles-affected-by-the-citroen-stop-drive-recall/mot-special-notice-03-25-testing-vehicles-affected-by-the-citroen-stop-drive-recall>, published on 12 August:
----------------------------------------------------------------
What to do if the vehicle is affected
You can MOT test the vehicle as normal. The affected vehicles will only cause a problem in the event of an airbag deployment because of an accident.
You should issue a rCymanual advisoryrCO with the following text:
rCLThis vehicle has an outstanding recall. Contact Citro|2n for information and to arrange a free repair.rCY ----------------------------------------------------------------
Note that "The affected vehicles will only cause a problem in the event of an airbag deployment because of an accident."
How does that tie in with the info here: <https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/stellantis-issues-rare-stop-drive-recall-for-uk-drivers-adbx11x1JNof>:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Stellantis, the parent company of Citroen, has recalled tens of thousands
of Citroen and DS models in the UK due to faulty airbags that rCo in some circumstances rCo can explode in an uncontrolled manner, causing injury or even death.
----------------------------------------------------------------
They can't both be right.
On 28/08/2025 03:05 AM, Rod Speed wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 09:12:00 +1000, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the >>>>> parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not
cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there >>>>> are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other*
than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY.-a-a The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no
effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND
being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using
the-a car.
Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of
the vehicle
How are the cops going to know that you have turned off the airbags ?
They don't need to.
and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated that
cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
That isnt what determies driving without valid insurance
From CoPilot, in response o a direct question about the Takata air-bags safety recall and Do Not Drive" order):
QUOTE:
British car insurance companiesrCoand consumer rights expertsrCohave made it clear that driving a Citro|2n C3 subject to a rCLdo not driverCY safety recall could invalidate your insurance.
The recall affects certain Citro|2n C3 and DS3 models fitted with Takata airbags, which can become dangerously unstable over time. Stellantis, Citro|2nrCOs parent company, issued an urgent stop-drive order for around 120,000 UK vehicles, instructing owners not to drive them under any circumstances until repairs are completed.
Driving the vehicle despite this warning can have serious consequences:
- Insurance invalidation: If you ignore the stop-drive order and are involved in an accident, your insurer may refuse to pay out on any claim.
- Legal penalties: You could face fines, penalty points, or even a
driving ban for operating a vehicle deemed unsafe [or without adequate
third party insurance - Ed.].
According to Martin LewisrCO MoneySavingExpert team and consumer rights advocates, the law is firmly on the side of consumers when it comes to repair obligations rCo but only if the vehicle is not driven while under recall.
If your Citro|2n C3 is affected, the safest course is to:
- Immediately stop driving it.
- Register for the recall repair via Citro|2nrCOs website or helpline.
- Document all correspondence and delays for consumer protection
-a purposes.
ENDQUOTE
We have a C3 and had the safety recall notice before the "Do Not Drive" order and were lucky enough to have the work done very promptly, but
were not issued with any documentation to the effect that the work had
been done. There was quite a battle with the dealer, and involving
Citroen UK, before we were given a letter of certification - produceable
to the insurer or the police - to the effect that the work had indeed
been done.
On 28/08/2025 09:55, JNugent wrote:
On 28/08/2025 03:05 AM, Rod Speed wrote:Be aware that Citroen Customer Care 0800 093 9393 are offering up to -u22
On Thu, 28 Aug 2025 09:12:00 +1000, JNugent <JNugent73@mail.com> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 06:43 PM, Tim+ wrote:
Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>> that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to >>>>>> go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the >>>>>> parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not
cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my
insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far,
there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
I doubt your insurer could weasel out of paying for anything *other* >>>>> than
rCLdeath by airbagrCY. The likelihood of your airbag killing you has no >>>>> effect on your other risks.
Working on the basis that the chance having a serious accident AND
being
killed by your airbag is incredibly small, IrCOd just carry on using >>>>> the car.
Good luck if you're stopped by the police for non-roadworthiness of
the vehicle
How are the cops going to know that you have turned off the airbags ?
They don't need to.
and (on the basis that insurance companies have already stated that
cover may not extend to crashes caused by the malfunction) driving
without valid insurance.
That isnt what determies driving without valid insurance
From CoPilot, in response o a direct question about the Takata
air-bags safety recall and Do Not Drive" order):
QUOTE:
British car insurance companiesrCoand consumer rights expertsrCohave made
it clear that driving a Citro|2n C3 subject to a rCLdo not driverCY safety >> recall could invalidate your insurance.
The recall affects certain Citro|2n C3 and DS3 models fitted with
Takata airbags, which can become dangerously unstable over time.
Stellantis, Citro|2nrCOs parent company, issued an urgent stop-drive
order for around 120,000 UK vehicles, instructing owners not to drive
them under any circumstances until repairs are completed.
Driving the vehicle despite this warning can have serious consequences:
- Insurance invalidation: If you ignore the stop-drive order and are
involved in an accident, your insurer may refuse to pay out on any claim.
- Legal penalties: You could face fines, penalty points, or even a
driving ban for operating a vehicle deemed unsafe [or without adequate
third party insurance - Ed.].
According to Martin LewisrCO MoneySavingExpert team and consumer rights
advocates, the law is firmly on the side of consumers when it comes to
repair obligations rCo but only if the vehicle is not driven while under
recall.
If your Citro|2n C3 is affected, the safest course is to:
- Immediately stop driving it.
- Register for the recall repair via Citro|2nrCOs website or helpline.
- Document all correspondence and delays for consumer protection
purposes.
ENDQUOTE
We have a C3 and had the safety recall notice before the "Do Not
Drive" order and were lucky enough to have the work done very
promptly, but were not issued with any documentation to the effect
that the work had been done. There was quite a battle with the dealer,
and involving Citroen UK, before we were given a letter of
certification - produceable to the insurer or the police - to the
effect that the work had indeed been done.
per day compensation for using taxis, buses etc, (with receipts) BUT
only from the date that you register with them until the vehicle is
repaired.
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely >>>>> to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my
age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then >>>>> I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot >>>>> walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I
would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over
the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this >>>> will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected, >>>> but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a
d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement
to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a >fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
In article <108kp7k$g1rt$4@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> scribeth thus
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the requirement >>>> to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely >>>>>> to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my >>>>>> age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then >>>>>> I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot >>>>>> walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I >>>>>> would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over >>>>> the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as this >>>>> will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that
would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be protected, >>>>> but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in
the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a >>>>> d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough
explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy
air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at all. >>>>
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a
fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
When i were a lad we use to go nicking bulbs and other odds and sods
from a local breakers yard but one thing we couldn't get the meaning
off a lot of cars had the steering wheel bent to buggery we couldn't
pull or move them..
Then one of the lads caught us nicking yet more bulbs and i asked him
and he said those are the cars a that have had a bad accident and the
drivers chest caused the wheel to be bent right over.
He further added that they didn't rush the driver to hospital as he was highly likely to be dead with that crushing impact.
Then we were told to wear seatbelt and of course all the saloon bar
lawyers said it was much better to be thrown clear of the car well it
didn't seem so to me. First car i had a Ford Zypher 6 i fitted belts
and have used them ever since, still got some burn scars from a head on
crash in France many years ago was told in no uncertain terms by the
local police that if i hadn't I'd be taken to the local morgue!...
On 28/08/2025 21:06, tony sayer wrote:
In article <108kp7k$g1rt$4@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> scribeth thus
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 13:25:55 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/08/2025 13:22, Spike wrote:
Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
On 26/08/2025 12:06, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 >>>>>>> that I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are
likely
to go-off and kill me. Cannot get booked in for fixing until
November, anywhere, because the parts are not readily available
anywhere in Europe. I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but >>>>>>> that would not cover a hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my >>>>>>> age (84). I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer >>>>>>> or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, >>>>>>> then
I am not covered. Fortunately I live in a town, and although I
cannot
walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I >>>>>>> would be totally isolated. Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
That is an awful situation - and I've seen some articles in the
newspapers on this, which is affecting several brands of car all over >>>>>> the world.
It is presumably possible to get the current air-bag removed - as >>>>>> this
will have to be done when a new one is eventually fitted. But that >>>>>> would mean that those in the front seats would no longer be
protected,
but that is a risk that all of us over a certain age put up with in >>>>>> the days before air-bags were routinely fitted. It's presumably not a >>>>>> d-i-y job to remove them though - as they obviously contain enough >>>>>> explosives to kill someone, in the worst case.
But I have no idea how to balance the risk of driving with a dodgy >>>>>> air-bag against the risk of driving without air-bag protection at >>>>>> all.
The greatest reduction in in-car deaths came about from the
requirement
to wear seat-belts. I doubt that the coming of air bags has made
anything like the difference that came about from using seat belts,
Air bags were developed for Americans who refused to wear seat belts.
BICBW and havenrCOt researched the numbers. IOW, driving a car withI'd be perfectly happy with no airbags.
disabled air-bags only changes onerCOs risk level to that of the
pre-airbag era, keeping in mind the improvements made meanwhile in
passive safety in motor vehicle construction.
I agree with the theory that the greatest boon to road safety would be a >>> fucking big sharp spike coming out of the steering wheel boss and point
at your chest.
When i were a lad we use to go nicking bulbs and other odds and sods
from a local breakers yard but one thing we couldn't get the-a meaning
off a lot of cars had the steering wheel bent to buggery we couldn't
pull or move them..
Then one of the lads caught us nicking yet more bulbs and i asked him
and he said those are the cars a that have had a bad accident and the
drivers chest caused the wheel to be bent right over.
He further added that they didn't rush the driver to hospital as he was
highly likely to be dead with that crushing impact.
Then we were told to wear seatbelt and of course all the saloon bar
lawyers said it was much better to be thrown clear of the car well it
didn't seem so to me. First car i had a-a Ford Zypher 6 i fitted belts
and have used them ever since, still got some burn scars from a head on
crash in France many years ago was told in no uncertain terms by the
local police that if i hadn't I'd be taken to the local morgue!...
Princess Di's bodyguard was the only person in the car who survived the crash. He was also the only one wearing a seat belt.
On 27/08/2025 18:38, Chris Green wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:Most people don't turn them on because they don't think of it.
Haven't they gone out of fashion though now?-a No one turns them on forI also had to fit a rear foglight (high intensity rear light as it's
technically known) as the MOT demanded it but the car was not fitted
with
it.
TBH if it was my car I'd willingly fit those for road use.
the very good reason that they simply dazzle the person behind with
glowing red fog and don't help in judging distance to the car in front.
The best change ever was when those fog lamps defaulted to "OFF"
whenever you turned off the ignition.
Prior to that, people would switch them on at the slightest hint of fog,
and they would remain on for the next month or so.
Having said that, would anyone under 20 who doesnrCOt read the Daily
Express know who Princess Di was?
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 12:06:22 +0100, Jim the Geordie wrote:
Just had a letter telling me that I must stop driving my Citro|2n C3 that
I bought second hand a month ago, because the airbags are likely to
go-off and kill me.
Cannot get booked in for fixing until November, anywhere, because the
parts are not readily available anywhere in Europe.
I think I can get compensation at -u22 a day, but that would not cover a
hire car, and I doubt I could get one at my age (84).
I am not entitled to a courtesy car either from the dealer or my insurer
because it's not an accident and if I do drive it, then I am not
covered.
Fortunately I live in a town, and although I cannot walk far, there are
taxis. If I still lived in a remote village, I would be totally
isolated.
Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh1t, Sh.....
This is a very long thread.
Haven't read most of it.
However, was it legal to sell you the car with this outstanding stop
notice?
Cheers
Dave R