From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

Can anyone shed any light on this, please?

A few days ago I discovered that I can't send mail from Mail. My setup is Sequoia and Apple Mail, picking up my emails from two Gmail accounts.

Preceding this new state there was a strange hiatus on my iMac, when it froze and was chuntering away for several minutes (I presume this was the fans I
coud hear, since it has an SSD). That incident happened when I had started to download a set of PDFs, which my colleague hadn't warned me probably amounts
to over a Gb, and I interrupted the process (it was a URL inside an email); that interruption didn't stop the chintering and the freeze.

Of course that episode may not be connected at all with the mail problem, but .. a little later I tried sending an email, clicked the "paper plane" to Send, and instead of it flashing and the draft emai closing when the message got
sent (normally half a second of course), the paper plane went grey ... and sat there. And the email wouldn't go.

Several hours in the succeeding days of faffing about trying to work out
what's happened have ensued, fruitlessly.

I tried logging in direct to Gmail (Web-base version - I haven't got the app
on my iMac) (if there _is_ one for MacOS), and sending mail from each ID on Gmail: this worked as expected. But I only ever do email in Mail on my iMac; not on an iPhone, not on any other device at all if I can help it.

But one thing that set alarm bells ringing, when I logged into Gmail, was Google's *arsing about* waffling on about Two Step Authentication, "do this,
do that, do the other, do whatever we tell you". (whoops mustn't get too excited), and I decided that maybe *that* is the problem: Mail is trying to send a message, Gmail at the other end says "where's your TSA?", and the Mail Send just hangs (there's no clue in the interface as to what's going on).

At one point in my thrashing around I came across Google's telling us about needing an App Password in certain circumstances. I didn't understand much of what they say, but decided in the end that this doesn't apply to my situation.

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be most grateful!

Best wishes alll,
Another John

Almost irrelevant postscript:
I spent my working life in a major University computing service, working closely with the "proper" computing staff to produce documents and presentations on computing for the users (academics until the 90s, then students as well after that). I now come to the conclusion that not only am I not educated in the right way to understand modern computing, but neither am I dumb enough to use computers like Apple and Google want their "customers" to use them. i.e. "just eat it all up and don't ask questions". Harrumph! (for
the second time in a week).
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 21/07/2025 11:34, Another John wrote:

Can anyone shed any light on this, please?

[....]

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be most grateful!

Best wishes alll,
Another John

Almost irrelevant postscript:
I spent my working life in a major University computing service, working closely with the "proper" computing staff to produce documents and presentations on computing for the users (academics until the 90s, then students as well after that). I now come to the conclusion that not only am I not educated in the right way to understand modern computing, but neither am I
dumb enough to use computers like Apple and Google want their "customers" to use them. i.e. "just eat it all up and don't ask questions". Harrumph! (for the second time in a week).

I note that nobody else has bothered to respond, John. Quite sad, really.

So, ignore this if you wish, but what I would suggest is something very
simple at this stage.

Please read about the procedure here:-
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/116946

I'd apreciate a response, regardless of whether or not it solved your
problem.

Good luck! :-)
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

Obviously I was too garrulous in my post. Try again:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving emails.

Cheers
Another John
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:20:08 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

Obviously I was too garrulous in my post. Try again:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under
Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving emails.

Just read your earlier post .....

There is a macOS gmail client called Mimesteam but it's not free, i.e.
$49.99 yearly sub. for an individual on up to 5 devices. There is a 2 week
free trial available from https://mimestream.com/ I've not and won't
do that as I use Apple Mail on macOS, and, touch wood, have no problems currently with my gmail account. The free iOS / iPadOS gmail client also
works fine for me on my iDevices. As with my other email accounts I use
IMAP rather than POP (except for Tim S's iLetter client). If Apple Mail settings were somehow corrupted in the incident and you're into sledgehammer technology, maybe try deleting your gmail accounts from Apple Mail and
setting them up again. Maybe a restore from a TM or other backup taken
before the incident might put matters right? Apologies if you've already
tried these!
--
Cheers, Alan
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

In article <s6NfQ.57748$FH3e.55391@usenetxs.com>,
Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under >Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving >emails.

I just successfully sent a message from a gmail account to a non-gmail
account using Apple Mail on Sequoia 15.4.

-- Richard
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:26:04 BST, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:20:08 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

Obviously I was too garrulous in my post. Try again:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under
Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving >> emails.

Just read your earlier post .....

There is a macOS gmail client called Mimesteam but it's not free, i.e.
$49.99 yearly sub. for an individual on up to 5 devices. There is a 2 week free trial available from https://mimestream.com/ I've not and won't
do that as I use Apple Mail on macOS, and, touch wood, have no problems currently with my gmail account. The free iOS / iPadOS gmail client also works fine for me on my iDevices. As with my other email accounts I use
IMAP rather than POP (except for Tim S's iLetter client). If Apple Mail settings were somehow corrupted in the incident and you're into sledgehammer technology, maybe try deleting your gmail accounts from Apple Mail and setting them up again. Maybe a restore from a TM or other backup taken
before the incident might put matters right? Apologies if you've already tried these!

Thanks a lot, Alan, and Richard.

For a short time today I thought I'd figured something out: I successfully
sent emails to people I know with non-Gmail accounts ... so I couldn't send to Gmail accounts (I thought).

But when I've tried to send follow-up messages to those non-Gmail people, the behaviour happens again: the "Send" button greys out and freezes, and the message is not sent. It's as though Mail is boycotting any email address that it has seen before!

Looks like the next thing I should try is to delete my a/c, as you suggest
Alan (also as Apple suggest, I find), and then re-create it. Which seems a dodgy thing to do, to me! I'll leave that until tomorrow.

Did I mention that I am receiving all emails that are _sent_ to me (I think!).

Cheers
Another John
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 2025-07-22, Another John <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

Thanks a lot, Alan, and Richard.

For a short time today I thought I'd figured something out: I successfully sent emails to people I know with non-Gmail accounts ... so I couldn't send to
Gmail accounts (I thought).

But when I've tried to send follow-up messages to those non-Gmail people, the behaviour happens again: the "Send" button greys out and freezes, and the message is not sent. It's as though Mail is boycotting any email address that it has seen before!

Looks like the next thing I should try is to delete my a/c, as you suggest Alan (also as Apple suggest, I find), and then re-create it. Which seems a dodgy thing to do, to me! I'll leave that until tomorrow.

Did I mention that I am receiving all emails that are _sent_ to me (I think!).

It might also be worth rebuilding MailrCOs mailboxes.

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mail/mlhlp1227/mac

Or even re-indexing by quitting Mail, deleting the 5 Envelope files in ~/Library/ Mail/Vnn/MailData and then reopening Mail.

nn will probably = 10 in Sequoia.
--
Cheers, Alan
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 22/07/2025 20:36, Another John wrote:

Did I mention that I am receiving all emails that are_sent_ to me (I think!).

Send and receive are different protocols. IMAP (or historically POP3) is
the receive protocol and that seems to be working so no need to worry
about IMAP settings or any help that you find on line that mentions IMAP.

Send is the SMTP protocol so that's the bit to investigate.

It's very easy (all too easy) to configure or mis-configure Apple Mail
to use the same SMTP outbound server for all accounts. This can result
in a situation where you are trying to send email from one account via a different provider, for example email from an outlook.com address via
Gmail and, understandably, Google gets upset because it thinks you are a spammer trying to send spoofed emails.

So have a look in Mail > Settings > Accounts and then the Server
Settings tab for each account down the left (if you have more than one)
to make sure that the outgoing mail server is the right one for that
account.

Regards,
--
Bruce Horrocks
Hampshire, England
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 22 Jul 2025 at 20:36:19 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:26:04 BST, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:20:08 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote: >>

Obviously I was too garrulous in my post. Try again:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under
Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving >>> emails.

Just read your earlier post .....

There is a macOS gmail client called Mimesteam but it's not free, i.e.
$49.99 yearly sub. for an individual on up to 5 devices. There is a 2 week >> free trial available from https://mimestream.com/ I've not and won't
do that as I use Apple Mail on macOS, and, touch wood, have no problems
currently with my gmail account. The free iOS / iPadOS gmail client also
works fine for me on my iDevices. As with my other email accounts I use
IMAP rather than POP (except for Tim S's iLetter client). If Apple Mail
settings were somehow corrupted in the incident and you're into sledgehammer >> technology, maybe try deleting your gmail accounts from Apple Mail and
setting them up again. Maybe a restore from a TM or other backup taken
before the incident might put matters right? Apologies if you've already
tried these!

Thanks a lot, Alan, and Richard.

For a short time today I thought I'd figured something out: I successfully sent emails to people I know with non-Gmail accounts ... so I couldn't send to
Gmail accounts (I thought).

But when I've tried to send follow-up messages to those non-Gmail people, the behaviour happens again: the "Send" button greys out and freezes, and the message is not sent. It's as though Mail is boycotting any email address that it has seen before!

Looks like the next thing I should try is to delete my a/c, as you suggest Alan (also as Apple suggest, I find), and then re-create it. Which seems a dodgy thing to do, to me! I'll leave that until tomorrow.

Did I mention that I am receiving all emails that are _sent_ to me (I think!).

Cheers
Another John

Have you tried the rather basic technique of doing a Restart? Or even shutting down and rebooting? Nobody has mentioned this, yet it cures so many problems.

Switching a device (not only a computer) off and back on after a few minutes (to discharge all the capacitors) is known in the family as a Ferranti Reset.

Old John.
--
Vita non est vivere sed valere vita est
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 2025-07-23, John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

Have you tried the rather basic technique of doing a Restart? Or even shutting
down and rebooting? Nobody has mentioned this, yet it cures so many problems.

Switching a device (not only a computer) off and back on after a few minutes (to discharge all the capacitors) is known in the family as a Ferranti Reset.

I very briefly worked with a Ferranti Argus 700 in the late 70's on a course at
Gatley but we never had to resort to that technique. Actually it was a software
rather than hardware course so I'm not surprised!
--
Cheers, Alan
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 23/07/2025 08:43, John Hill wrote:
[....]

Have you tried the rather basic technique of doing a Restart? Or even shutting
down and rebooting? Nobody has mentioned this, yet it cures so many problems.

It does indeed - with so many devices using "wiggly amps" as we used to
call them! ;-)

Switching a device (not only a computer) off and back on after a few minutes (to discharge all the capacitors) is known in the family as a Ferranti Reset.

I did suggest this - but was ignored:-

"So, ignore this if you wish, but what I would suggest is something very
simple at this stage."

Please read about the procedure here:-
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/116946
--
David
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From Newsgroup: uk.comp.sys.mac

On 23 Jul 2025 at 08:43:43 BST, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 20:36:19 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:26:04 BST, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

On 22 Jul 2025 at 15:20:08 BST, "Another John" <lalaw44@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>

Obviously I was too garrulous in my post. Try again:

Has anyone noticed any problems with using Gmal accounts from Apple Mail under
Sequoia? I suddenly cannot send messages, although I _seem_ to be receiving
emails.

Just read your earlier post .....

There is a macOS gmail client called Mimesteam but it's not free, i.e.
$49.99 yearly sub. for an individual on up to 5 devices. There is a 2 week >>> free trial available from https://mimestream.com/ I've not and won't
do that as I use Apple Mail on macOS, and, touch wood, have no problems
currently with my gmail account. The free iOS / iPadOS gmail client also >>> works fine for me on my iDevices. As with my other email accounts I use
IMAP rather than POP (except for Tim S's iLetter client). If Apple Mail
settings were somehow corrupted in the incident and you're into sledgehammer
technology, maybe try deleting your gmail accounts from Apple Mail and
setting them up again. Maybe a restore from a TM or other backup taken
before the incident might put matters right? Apologies if you've already >>> tried these!

Thanks a lot, Alan, and Richard.

For a short time today I thought I'd figured something out: I successfully >> sent emails to people I know with non-Gmail accounts ... so I couldn't send to
Gmail accounts (I thought).

But when I've tried to send follow-up messages to those non-Gmail people, the
behaviour happens again: the "Send" button greys out and freezes, and the
message is not sent. It's as though Mail is boycotting any email address that
it has seen before!

Looks like the next thing I should try is to delete my a/c, as you suggest >> Alan (also as Apple suggest, I find), and then re-create it. Which seems a >> dodgy thing to do, to me! I'll leave that until tomorrow.

Did I mention that I am receiving all emails that are _sent_ to me (I think!).

Cheers
Another John

Have you tried the rather basic technique of doing a Restart? Or even shutting
down and rebooting? Nobody has mentioned this, yet it cures so many problems.

Switching a device (not only a computer) off and back on after a few minutes (to discharge all the capacitors) is known in the family as a Ferranti Reset.

Old John.

Ho, yus, John! First thing(s) I tried - Restart, then later a shutdown-wait-restart. (I may not have mentioned this in my first post,
because I'd already typed a novel when a short essay would have done.)

Thanks to everyone so far: you have suggested a few things to try.

And I found what looks rather promising by asking Google "sequoia reinstall Mail". (answer: you can't! It's too central to the system), BUT one of the results was something in the Apple Community forum headed "Apple Mail after Sequoia", with someone complaining that Mail had become "useless". The successful answer (in _that_ case) was to hold down Shift when you launch Mail and take it from there.

I'm not going to try that, or any of the other suggested solutions, until tomorrow, when I may have more wriggle-room in the day to deal with the wormholes that open up when you start to "try things".

The problem is definitely a corruption of Mail's settings: I had a lightbulb moment: I still have my Mojave iMac: I quit Mail on the Sequoia one, started
it in Mojave, and everything works: I have found a way to send mail! But I
need to solve this -- the whole idea of going to a newer iMac was to not lag _too_ far behind Apple's relentless pressing forward.

There: another novella :-(

Thanks again: will report back.

Another John
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