| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 27 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 38:10:59 |
| Calls: | 631 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 1,187 |
| D/L today: |
22 files (29,767K bytes) |
| Messages: | 173,683 |
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
On 9/18/25 6:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species
of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through
a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went
through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population
size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and
it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the
bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have
been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation
event where the new species took only a portion of the existing
populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation
somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the chromosomal
fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this
chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow
between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do
not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These
types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on founder effects
(certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).
Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes (translocations,
inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion siring all foals in
his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant
him.-a Wright calculated the probability of fixation of chromosomal
abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on
small population size and then limited gene flow into the small
population.-a This would result in something that looked like a
population bottleneck.
My understanding that this sort of fusion results in only a slight loss
of fertility in a heterozygote and that many mammal populations are polymorphic.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
On 9/18/25 9:04 AM, RonO wrote:
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
When I was a kid, PBS mean "Excellence." But then again, I also found
history on the history channel and real "educational" shows on the
Discovery Channel...
It's all crap now. All of it.
PBS has always had problems. The always tended to be rather one sided.
They were never "Balanced." Which you may or may not argue is okay,
that they took a position and presented it but, I often felt that they
missed opportunities.
Here. This kills two (bad) birds with one stone:
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.anthropology.paleo/c/EN-wvKdo-LA/m/D- ArLffkAwAJ
Even the title is deceptive... VERY deceptive.
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It >> sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a
population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps
getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that
Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it
occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our
chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions >> can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the
fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric
speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He >> ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It >>> sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a
population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through >>> a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps
getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that >>> Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it >>> occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our
chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions >>> can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the
fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric
speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He >>> ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
On 9/19/25 2:58 AM, jillery wrote:Yeah, I get that a lot from willfully stupid trolls.
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
Wow. You're an idiot.
PBS is a close rival of The History Channel, for lack ofYour posts are excellent examples of semenating narratives.
credibility. They are far from unbiased. They don't
present issues they disseminate a narrative.
I gave more than one example.
JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow. You're an idiot.
Yeah, I get that a lot
PBS is a close rival of The History Channel, for lack of
credibility. They are far from unbiased. They don't
present issues they disseminate a narrative.
I gave more than one example.
Your posts
On 9/19/2025 1:58 AM, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human
evolution.-a It
sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of >>>> Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that >>>> our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a
population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went
through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps >>>> getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be
that
Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck
if it
occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our
chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such
fusions
can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the >>>> fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric >>>> speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective
disadvantage.-a He
ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked >>>> like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link.-a Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it.-a It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
There are likely some controversial opinions in the series.-a Skull shape evolution is about what it was back in the 1970's when I took Physical Anthro, but issues like the brow ridges claimed to be transitional at
this time were still believed to just be variants segregating in the
human population.-a Before we knew about Denisovan interbreeding the Australoid brow ridges were considered to be part of the modern human phenotypic variation that made it out of Africa even though the ancient modern human fossils like Cro magnon man didn't have brow ridges.-a She
may be wrong about the bow and arrow being part of human culture 100,000 years ago.-a I don't know what evidence she has for that.-a When modern humans left Africa they were using blade stone technology and producing smaller spear points, but it was the general consensus that they were
using throwing spears launched with the aid of a spear thrower (atlatl).
-aNeanderthals were using thick shafted thrusting spears with large
stone spear heads, and the modern humans were using more gracile shafts
with smaller stone spear heads as throwing spears.
The bow in Africa may have never evolved past something for very small
game or a poison dart launcher.
The episode was a decent overview of modern human evolution.-a The show disregarded the new genetic evidence for there being two ancient
populations that coexisted in Africa to interbreed within the last few hundred thousand years.-a The interbreeding was limited and came after
our lineage had, had the chromosome fusion around 900,000 years ago.
This population either came from outside of Africa or existed in some isolated state somewhere in Africa.-a The series stress cooperation
between groups as being important, but the reason that there is only one species still existing has been demonstrated over and over in our
history.-a What happened to the hunter gatherers that inhabited Europe before agriculture was invented in the fertile crescent?-a Let's say that there were modern humans in the Americas before 25,000 years ago.-a The subsequent waves of East Asians seem to have wiped them out.-a Their genetics were not incorporated into the population of later migrants.
Cooperation is a major factor in what makes us humans, but it is an us
vs them cooperation.-a The Republicans used to have the commies, but now
all they have are the Democrats, and we have the Klan and the Nazis supporting Trump.-a It is part of human nature, and the primary reason
that there is only one species of Homo left standing.
Ron Okimoto
Again, I gave you examples of PBS bullshit. PBS.Not in this froup.
Try toYou first.
rise above your idiocy, your fixation on personalities.
On Sun, 21 Sep 2025 02:06:32 -0400, JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:
Again, I gave you examples of PBS bullshit. PBS.
Not in this froup.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It >>> sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a
population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through >>> a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps
getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that >>> Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it >>> occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our
chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions >>> can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the
fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric
speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He >>> ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
On 9/19/2025 1:58 AM, jillery wrote:For additional information about early hominems at Ledi Geraru and
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>Five episodes to Oct 15 are available.
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It >>>> sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of >>>> Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that >>>> our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a
population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through >>>> a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps >>>> getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that >>>> Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it >>>> occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our
chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions >>>> can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the >>>> fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric >>>> speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He >>>> ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked >>>> like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 20:10:12 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/19/2025 1:58 AM, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>Five episodes to Oct 15 are available.
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It >>>>> sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of >>>>> Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that >>>>> our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a >>>>> population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through >>>>> a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps >>>>> getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that >>>>> Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it >>>>> occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near
extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the >>>>> new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic
diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>>>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our >>>>> chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions >>>>> can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the >>>>> fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric >>>>> speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>>>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>> population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He >>>>> ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow >>>>> into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked >>>>> like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
For additional information about early hominems at Ledi Geraru and
elsewhere, check out this lecture from Gutsick Gibbon:
<https://youtu.be/CQvCzoOcQw8>
Bottom line: during almost all the time H.sapiens evolved, there were
several homo species living contemporaneously, all tool-using,
meat-eating bipeds. How they distinguished from each other, and why
we are the sole homo species remaining, are currently unsolved
questions.
On 9/26/2025 7:54 AM, jillery wrote:What you cite above are historically recent events, in contrast to the evolutionary timescales to which the question refers. Even accepting
On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 20:10:12 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/19/2025 1:58 AM, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>Five episodes to Oct 15 are available.
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It
sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of >>>>>> Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that >>>>>> our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a >>>>>> population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through >>>>>> a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps >>>>>> getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that >>>>>> Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it >>>>>> occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near >>>>>> extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the >>>>>> new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic >>>>>> diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This >>>>>> is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our >>>>>> chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions
can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the >>>>>> fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric >>>>>> speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely >>>>>> on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>>> population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion >>>>>> siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He
ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow >>>>>> into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked >>>>>> like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
For additional information about early hominems at Ledi Geraru and
elsewhere, check out this lecture from Gutsick Gibbon:
<https://youtu.be/CQvCzoOcQw8>
Bottom line: during almost all the time H.sapiens evolved, there were
several homo species living contemporaneously, all tool-using,
meat-eating bipeds. How they distinguished from each other, and why
we are the sole homo species remaining, are currently unsolved
questions.
I do not know why it is claimed to be an unsolved question. We can't
even have stable relationships with populations that have been separated
for less than 60,000 years. What happened to the native Americans?
What happened to the modern human hunter gatherers in Europe that
existed before the advent of agriculture? Genetic remnants only exist
in mountainous regions of Europe and some Mediterranean islands. What >happened to the Neanderthals and Denisovans? The native Americans and >European hunter gatherers only survived because it never became
necessary to take over all of the places where they lived. Hunter
gatherers live on limited resources. There is no sharing between
expanding populations. One population expands and the other shrinks.
Modern humans succeeded because our "Us VS Them" mentality served us
well enough to band together long enough to eliminate the ones that we >considered to be "Them".
What is still happening to chimps and gorillas and pretty much all the
rest of life on earth? We don't have to directly kill them we just have
to push them out of where we want to live.
Ron Okimoto
On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:18:19 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/26/2025 7:54 AM, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 20:10:12 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/19/2025 1:58 AM, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 18 Sep 2025 09:19:35 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>Five episodes to Oct 15 are available.
wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It
sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of >>>>>>> Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that >>>>>>> our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a >>>>>>> population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps >>>>>>> getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that
Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it
occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near >>>>>>> extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the >>>>>>> new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic >>>>>>> diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our >>>>>>> chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions
can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the >>>>>>> fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric >>>>>>> speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>>>> population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion >>>>>>> siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of >>>>>>> fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He
ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow >>>>>>> into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked >>>>>>> like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/video/human-origins/
This may be the start of the series it premiered yesterday.
Ron Okimoto
Thank your for this link. Had you not mentioned it, it's almost
certain I would have missed it. It's productions like this which
illustrate why investing in PBS is good for the country.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
For additional information about early hominems at Ledi Geraru and
elsewhere, check out this lecture from Gutsick Gibbon:
<https://youtu.be/CQvCzoOcQw8>
Bottom line: during almost all the time H.sapiens evolved, there were
several homo species living contemporaneously, all tool-using,
meat-eating bipeds. How they distinguished from each other, and why
we are the sole homo species remaining, are currently unsolved
questions.
I do not know why it is claimed to be an unsolved question. We can't
even have stable relationships with populations that have been separated
for less than 60,000 years. What happened to the native Americans?
What happened to the modern human hunter gatherers in Europe that
existed before the advent of agriculture? Genetic remnants only exist
in mountainous regions of Europe and some Mediterranean islands. What
happened to the Neanderthals and Denisovans? The native Americans and
European hunter gatherers only survived because it never became
necessary to take over all of the places where they lived. Hunter
gatherers live on limited resources. There is no sharing between
expanding populations. One population expands and the other shrinks.
Modern humans succeeded because our "Us VS Them" mentality served us
well enough to band together long enough to eliminate the ones that we
considered to be "Them".
What is still happening to chimps and gorillas and pretty much all the
rest of life on earth? We don't have to directly kill them we just have
to push them out of where we want to live.
Ron Okimoto
What you cite above are historically recent events, in contrast to the evolutionary timescales to which the question refers. Even accepting
for arguments sake that a single homo species inevitably had to
prevail over its many ecological cousins, there's no obvious reason
why that one species turned out to be us. Given the genetic evidence
that we experienced an extreme population bottleneck, that would argue H.sapiens could have been among those missing homo species.
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species
of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through
a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went
through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population
size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and
it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the
bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have
been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation
event where the new species took only a portion of the existing
populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation
somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the chromosomal
fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this
chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow
between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do
not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These
types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on founder effects
(certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).
Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes (translocations,
inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion siring all foals in
his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant
him.-a Wright calculated the probability of fixation of chromosomal
abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on
small population size and then limited gene flow into the small
population.-a This would result in something that looked like a
population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking
the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads, later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by
early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago. Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa,
between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000
years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was used
by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago. The oldest
surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used
as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would
have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting
with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial
than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early
Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting
large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows and
arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago, pushing
back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French
points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern
age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also
went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into
history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off
soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.
This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of
the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the
chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals
share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased
geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those
that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.
He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene
flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that
looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking
the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by
early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used
by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa,
between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's
Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000
years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago.
The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to
the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used
as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would
have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting
with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial
than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early
Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting
large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows
and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French
points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern
age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it
likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads
from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows?
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:I have to agree on this point (pun intended). Definitively
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed. It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.
It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into
history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off
soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.
This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of
the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals
share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased
geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those
that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons
returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene
flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking
the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by
early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used
by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa,
between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's
Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000
years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago.
The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to
the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used
as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting
with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early
Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting
large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows
and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French
points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern
age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it
likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads
from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows?
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates >that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last >waves of migrants were going to North America. Evidence indicates that
it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago. So
the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows. No one finds >arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:34 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed. It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution. >>>>> It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into
history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off >>>>> soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.
This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of >>>>> the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals >>>>> share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased
geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those >>>>> that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene
flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking >>>> the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by
early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used
by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa, >>>> between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's >>>> Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000
years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago.
The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to
the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used >>>> as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting
with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early
Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting
large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows >>>> and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French
points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern
age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it >>>> likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads
from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows? >>>
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates
that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last
waves of migrants were going to North America. Evidence indicates that
it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago. So
the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows. No one finds
arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
I have to agree on this point (pun intended). Definitively
distinguishing between dart points and arrow points is a challenge
when all that remains are the points themselves, as the wood from the
bows, and arrow shafts to which they were hafted, are unlikely to be preserved.
OTOH, from AI Overview:
******************************************
Evidence for the first bow comes from small, finely crafted stone
points in Grotte Mandrin, France, dating to about 54,000 years ago,
and even earlier in South Africa around 71,000 years ago, showing characteristics of arrowheads used with bows rather than spears or
atlatls. The bow itself, made of perishable materials like wood and
sinew, rarely survives, but the discovery of ancient arrowheads
indicates the use of the bow-and-arrow technology.
Evidence from South Africa
******************************************
and
<https://www.sciencealert.com/bows-were-being-used-in-europe-40000-years-earlier-than-we-thought>
*****************************************
For the study, the researchers reproduced the tiny flint points found
in the cave, some of which are smaller than a US penny, and fired them
as arrowheads with a replica bow at dead animals.
"We couldn't throw them at the animals any other way than with a bow
because they were too tiny and too light to be efficient," said Laure
Metz of Aix Marseille University, a co-author of the study along with
Ludovic Slimak of the University of Toulouse.
"We had to use this kind of propulsion," Metz told AFP. "The only way
that it was working was with a bow."
Fractures on the flint points were compared with scars found on the
artifacts found in the cave, proving undoubtedly that they were used
as arrowheads, the researchers said. *********************************************
So the NOVA video in question isn't the only source to claim that bows
and arrows were used 70Kya and 40Kya. Clearly this question requires
more data.
On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:34 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed. It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution. >>>>> It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending
that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into
history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off >>>>> soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.
This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of >>>>> the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals >>>>> share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased
geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those >>>>> that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred
population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene
flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking >>>> the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by
early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used
by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa, >>>> between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's >>>> Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000
years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago.
The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to
the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used >>>> as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting
with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early
Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting
large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows >>>> and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French
points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern
age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it >>>> likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads
from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows? >>>
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates
that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last
waves of migrants were going to North America. Evidence indicates that
it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago. So
the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows. No one finds
arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
I have to agree on this point (pun intended). Definitively
distinguishing between dart points and arrow points is a challenge
when all that remains are the points themselves, as the wood from the
bows, and arrow shafts to which they were hafted, are unlikely to be preserved.
OTOH, from AI Overview:
******************************************
Evidence for the first bow comes from small, finely crafted stone
points in Grotte Mandrin, France, dating to about 54,000 years ago,
and even earlier in South Africa around 71,000 years ago, showing characteristics of arrowheads used with bows rather than spears or
atlatls. The bow itself, made of perishable materials like wood and
sinew, rarely survives, but the discovery of ancient arrowheads
indicates the use of the bow-and-arrow technology.
Evidence from South Africa
******************************************
and
<https://www.sciencealert.com/bows-were-being-used-in-europe-40000-years-earlier-than-we-thought>
*****************************************
For the study, the researchers reproduced the tiny flint points found
in the cave, some of which are smaller than a US penny, and fired them
as arrowheads with a replica bow at dead animals.
"We couldn't throw them at the animals any other way than with a bow
because they were too tiny and too light to be efficient," said Laure
Metz of Aix Marseille University, a co-author of the study along with
Ludovic Slimak of the University of Toulouse.
"We had to use this kind of propulsion," Metz told AFP. "The only way
that it was working was with a bow."
Fractures on the flint points were compared with scars found on the
artifacts found in the cave, proving undoubtedly that they were used
as arrowheads, the researchers said. *********************************************
So the NOVA video in question isn't the only source to claim that bows
and arrows were used 70Kya and 40Kya. Clearly this question requires
more data.
On 9/28/25 10:07 PM, jillery wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:34 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed.-a It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution. >>>>>> It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending >>>>>> that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into >>>>>> history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off >>>>>> soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago. >>>>>> This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of >>>>>> the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals >>>>>> share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased >>>>>> geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those >>>>>> that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>>> population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion >>>>>> siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene >>>>>> flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking >>>>> the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by >>>>> early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used >>>>> by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa, >>>>> between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's >>>>> Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000 >>>>> years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago. >>>>> The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to >>>>> the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used >>>>> as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>>>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting >>>>> with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>>>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early >>>>> Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting >>>>> large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows >>>>> and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French >>>>> points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern >>>>> age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it >>>>> likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads >>>> from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of
bows?
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates >>> that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last >>> waves of migrants were going to North America.-a Evidence indicates that >>> it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago.-a So >>> the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows.-a No one finds >>> arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
I have to agree on this point (pun intended).-a Definitively
distinguishing between dart points and arrow points is a challenge
when all that remains are the points themselves, as the wood from the
bows, and arrow shafts to which they were hafted, are unlikely to be
preserved.
OTOH, from AI Overview:
******************************************
Evidence for the first bow comes from small, finely crafted stone
points in Grotte Mandrin, France, dating to about 54,000 years ago,
and even earlier in South Africa around 71,000 years ago, showing
characteristics of arrowheads used with bows rather than spears or
atlatls. The bow itself, made of perishable materials like wood and
sinew, rarely survives, but the discovery of ancient arrowheads
indicates the use of the bow-and-arrow technology.
Evidence from South Africa
******************************************
and
<https://www.sciencealert.com/bows-were-being-used-in-europe-40000-
years-earlier-than-we-thought>
*****************************************
For the study, the researchers reproduced the tiny flint points found
in the cave, some of which are smaller than a US penny, and fired them
as arrowheads with a replica bow at dead animals.
"We couldn't throw them at the animals any other way than with a bow
because they were too tiny and too light to be efficient," said Laure
Metz of Aix Marseille University, a co-author of the study along with
Ludovic Slimak of the University of Toulouse.
What ways of throwing did they try?
"We had to use this kind of propulsion," Metz told AFP. "The only way
that it was working was with a bow."
Fractures on the flint points were compared with scars found on the
artifacts found in the cave, proving undoubtedly that they were used
as arrowheads, the researchers said.
*********************************************
So the NOVA video in question isn't the only source to claim that bows
and arrows were used 70Kya and 40Kya.-a Clearly this question requires
more data.
On 9/28/25 10:07 PM, jillery wrote:I believe this is the original article to which the above link cites: <https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4675>
On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:34 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed. It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution. >>>>>> It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending >>>>>> that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into >>>>>> history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off >>>>>> soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago. >>>>>> This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have
been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of >>>>>> the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals >>>>>> share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased >>>>>> geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those >>>>>> that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation
event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on
founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>>> population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion >>>>>> siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene >>>>>> flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking >>>>> the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000
years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to
roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points
used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by >>>>> early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago.
Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used >>>>> by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa, >>>>> between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's >>>>> Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000 >>>>> years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was
used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago. >>>>> The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to >>>>> the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used >>>>> as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>>>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting >>>>> with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>>>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial.
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this
answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early >>>>> Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting >>>>> large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows >>>>> and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago,
pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French >>>>> points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of
anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern >>>>> age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South
America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it >>>>> likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads >>>> from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows? >>>>
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates >>> that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last >>> waves of migrants were going to North America. Evidence indicates that
it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago. So >>> the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows. No one finds
arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
I have to agree on this point (pun intended). Definitively
distinguishing between dart points and arrow points is a challenge
when all that remains are the points themselves, as the wood from the
bows, and arrow shafts to which they were hafted, are unlikely to be
preserved.
OTOH, from AI Overview:
******************************************
Evidence for the first bow comes from small, finely crafted stone
points in Grotte Mandrin, France, dating to about 54,000 years ago,
and even earlier in South Africa around 71,000 years ago, showing
characteristics of arrowheads used with bows rather than spears or
atlatls. The bow itself, made of perishable materials like wood and
sinew, rarely survives, but the discovery of ancient arrowheads
indicates the use of the bow-and-arrow technology.
Evidence from South Africa
******************************************
and
<https://www.sciencealert.com/bows-were-being-used-in-europe-40000-years-earlier-than-we-thought>
*****************************************
For the study, the researchers reproduced the tiny flint points found
in the cave, some of which are smaller than a US penny, and fired them
as arrowheads with a replica bow at dead animals.
"We couldn't throw them at the animals any other way than with a bow
because they were too tiny and too light to be efficient," said Laure
Metz of Aix Marseille University, a co-author of the study along with
Ludovic Slimak of the University of Toulouse.
What ways of throwing did they try?
--"We had to use this kind of propulsion," Metz told AFP. "The only way
that it was working was with a bow."
Fractures on the flint points were compared with scars found on the
artifacts found in the cave, proving undoubtedly that they were used
as arrowheads, the researchers said.
*********************************************
So the NOVA video in question isn't the only source to claim that bows
and arrows were used 70Kya and 40Kya. Clearly this question requires
more data.
On Mon, 29 Sep 2025 11:20:18 -0700, John Harshman
<john.harshman@gmail.com> wrote:
On 9/28/25 10:07 PM, jillery wrote:
On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:34 -0500, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/28/2025 6:19 PM, John Harshman wrote:
On 9/28/25 11:24 AM, RonO wrote:I do not think that the bow was needed. It would have been useful in
On 9/18/2025 8:04 AM, RonO wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/series/human/episodes/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their >>>>>>> video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution. >>>>>>> It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different
species of Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending >>>>>>> that our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go
through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also >>>>>>> went through a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective
population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into >>>>>>> history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off >>>>>>> soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago. >>>>>>> This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have >>>>>>> been a speciation event where the new species took only a portion of >>>>>>> the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small
subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This is around the time when the >>>>>>> chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals >>>>>>> share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased >>>>>>> geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those >>>>>>> that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation >>>>>>> event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely on >>>>>>> founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred >>>>>>> population). Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion >>>>>>> siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons >>>>>>> returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of >>>>>>> fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage. >>>>>>> He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene >>>>>>> flow into the small population.-a This would result in something that >>>>>>> looked like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto
The second episode continues to make claims about modern humans taking >>>>>> the bow and arrow out of Africa with them, but this seems to be a
controversial topic.
Google quote:
Based on current archaeological evidence, bows did not exist 70,000 >>>>>> years ago. While stone projectile points found in Africa dating to >>>>>> roughly 70,000 years ago were initially thought to be arrowheads,
later analysis revealed they were more likely spear or dart points >>>>>> used with atlatls (spear-throwers).
END QUOTE:
https://www.thoughtco.com/bow-and-arrow-hunting-history-4135970
Updated June 10, 2025:
QUOTE:
Bow and arrow hunting (or archery) is a technology first developed by >>>>>> early modern humans in Africa, perhaps as long as 71,000 years ago. >>>>>> Archaeological evidence shows that the technology was certainly used >>>>>> by humans during the Howiesons Poort phase of Middle Stone Age Africa, >>>>>> between 37,000 and 65,000 years ago; recent evidence at South Africa's >>>>>> Pinnacle Point cave tentatively pushes the initial use back to 71,000 >>>>>> years ago.
However, there is no evidence that the bow and arrow technology was >>>>>> used by people who migrated out of Africa until the Late Upper
Paleolithic or Terminal Pleistocene, at most 15,000-20,000 years ago. >>>>>> The oldest surviving organic elements of bows and arrows only date to >>>>>> the Early Holocene of about 11,000 years ago.
END QUOTE:
The NOVA series put up some tiny bone points that might have been used >>>>>> as arrow heads in the Asian tropical forest of Sri Lanka.-a These would >>>>>> have been like the micropoints that African Bushman use when hunting >>>>>> with poison tipped arrows.-a These arrows are not much more substantial >>>>>> than poison darts, and the power of the bow isn't very substantial. >>>>>>
I asked Google if Cro Magnon man had the bow and arrow and got this >>>>>> answer:
Yes, Cro-Magnon people did use bows and arrows, a technology of early >>>>>> Homo sapiens that provided an advantage over Neanderthals for hunting >>>>>> large and fast-moving prey. Evidence, such as tiny, impact-marked
stone points from the Mandrin cave in France, suggests the use of bows >>>>>> and arrows by Homo sapiens in Europe as early as 54,000 years ago, >>>>>> pushing back the timeline of this innovation.
This is not supported by the bow and arrow history, and these French >>>>>> points were likely throwing spear points, and I had never heard of >>>>>> anything but throwing spear points had ever been found in Europe.
Equatorial rain forest hunter gatherers that survived into the modern >>>>>> age used blow guns to hunt prey in the trees in both Asia and South >>>>>> America.-a They likely came up with that tech independently because it >>>>>> likely wasn't any tech that came across the Bearing straits.
The show seems to consistently make strong claims based on scant
evidence, without presenting opposing views. How do you tell arrowheads >>>>> from atlatl-dart points? Can we even say there's a single origin of bows? >>>>>
the jungle and was likely used in the Amazon, but the evidence indicates >>>> that the bow and arrow tech became available the same time that the last >>>> waves of migrants were going to North America. Evidence indicates that >>>> it didn't spread south from the Arctic until around 8,000 years ago. So >>>> the first waves of migrants did not have bows and arrows. No one finds >>>> arrow heads with Clovis points.
Ron Okimoto
I have to agree on this point (pun intended). Definitively
distinguishing between dart points and arrow points is a challenge
when all that remains are the points themselves, as the wood from the
bows, and arrow shafts to which they were hafted, are unlikely to be
preserved.
OTOH, from AI Overview:
******************************************
Evidence for the first bow comes from small, finely crafted stone
points in Grotte Mandrin, France, dating to about 54,000 years ago,
and even earlier in South Africa around 71,000 years ago, showing
characteristics of arrowheads used with bows rather than spears or
atlatls. The bow itself, made of perishable materials like wood and
sinew, rarely survives, but the discovery of ancient arrowheads
indicates the use of the bow-and-arrow technology.
Evidence from South Africa
******************************************
and
<https://www.sciencealert.com/bows-were-being-used-in-europe-40000-years-earlier-than-we-thought>
*****************************************
For the study, the researchers reproduced the tiny flint points found
in the cave, some of which are smaller than a US penny, and fired them
as arrowheads with a replica bow at dead animals.
"We couldn't throw them at the animals any other way than with a bow
because they were too tiny and too light to be efficient," said Laure
Metz of Aix Marseille University, a co-author of the study along with
Ludovic Slimak of the University of Toulouse.
What ways of throwing did they try?
I believe this is the original article to which the above link cites: <https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.add4675>
The Results section and the Mode of Weapon Use section might provide
some answers to your question. This team appears to be confident in
their ability to distinguish stone arrow tips from stone dart tips.
"We had to use this kind of propulsion," Metz told AFP. "The only way
that it was working was with a bow."
Fractures on the flint points were compared with scars found on the
artifacts found in the cave, proving undoubtedly that they were used
as arrowheads, the researchers said.
*********************************************
So the NOVA video in question isn't the only source to claim that bows
and arrows were used 70Kya and 40Kya. Clearly this question requires
more data.
https://www.cbsnews.com/
I do not know how long this video will be up, but it is part of their
video series of fluff type news.
There is going to be a new 7 part series of NOVA on human evolution.-a It sounds like it is going to concentrate on all the different species of
Homo that we have found to date.
Ella Al-Shamahi is the series anthropologist and she is contending that
our species of Homo was the underdog.-a Our species did go through a population bottleneck, but Neanderthals and Denisovans also went through
a bottleneck.-a The restriction in our effective population size keeps getting pushed further and further back into history, and it may be that Nenaderthals and Denisovans branched off soon after the bottleneck if it occurred around 800,000 years ago.-a This may not have been a near extinction event, but it might have been a speciation event where the
new species took only a portion of the existing populations genetic diversity arising from a small subpopulation somewhere in Africa.-a This
is around the time when the chromosomal fusion occurred to create our chromosome 2 (Neanderthals share this chromosomal fusion).-a Such fusions can cause decreased geneflow between those with a high frequency of the fusion and those that do not have it.-a It could have been a sympatric speciation event.-a These types of chromosome number shifts tend to rely
on founder effects (certain families with the fusion create an inbred population).-a Horses rapidly change their chromosome mixes
(translocations, inversions and fusions) likely due to one stallion
siring all foals in his harem, and the likelihood of one of his sons returning to supplant him.-a Wright calculated the probability of
fixation of chromosomal abnormalities with a selective disadvantage.-a He ended up relying on small population size and then limited gene flow
into the small population.-a This would result in something that looked
like a population bottleneck.
Ron Okimoto