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Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study- challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-have- created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-possibilities/ar- AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities
On 9/5/2025 11:10 PM, Pro Plyd wrote:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study-
challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-have-
created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-possibilities/ar-
AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities
Probably due to GIGO. How can you model something when you do not know
how it happened? You'd have to model all the possible paths, when you
don't know what the possible paths are.
Since they found that lipids are hydrophobic and assemble in water
and can even form the lipid bilayer of a cell membrane.
These associations of lipids have been found to have enzymatic
activity, but I do not recall any origin of life scenarios that start
with making lipids, and having the lipids make other things.
Apparently lipids have hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts
that can come together and have enzymatic activity.
The way this guys modeling is described "By applying information theory
and algorithmic complexity, Endres analyzed what it would take for the earliest living cell, known as a protocell, to self-assemble from
simple chemical components." As sad as it may be this guy seems to
have modeled the tornado through a junk yard scenario. GIGO. If this
were April 1st I would assume this was a joke. It sounds like a write
up of Ed Conrad's fossil finds.
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study-challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-have-created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-possibilities/ar-AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities--
On 2025-09-06 14:11:27 +0000, RonO said:
On 9/5/2025 11:10 PM, Pro Plyd wrote:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study-
challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds life|ore4raos origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of science|ore4raos most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-
have- created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-
possibilities/ar- AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities
Probably due to GIGO.-a How can you model something when you do not
know how it happened?-a You'd have to model all the possible paths,
when you don't know what the possible paths are.
Since they found that lipids are hydrophobic and assemble in water
Who "found" it? That is something I've known for at last half a century,
and I'll bet that anyone who knew anything about lipids also knew it.d
-aand can even form the lipid bilayer of a cell membrane.
Likewise. Is this a physicist "discovering" stuff that biologists have always known?
-a These associations of lipids have been found to have enzymatic
activity, but I do not recall any origin of life scenarios that start
with making lipids, and having the lipids make other things.
Me neither.
-a Apparently lipids have hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts
Is there any biochemist who doesn't know that?
-athat can come together and have enzymatic activity.
That is testable by experiment, not by playing around with a computer
model.
The way this guys modeling is described "By applying information
theory and algorithmic complexity, Endres analyzed what it would take
for the earliest living cell, known as a protocell, to self-assemble
from simple chemical components."-a As sad as it may be this guy seems
to have modeled the tornado through a junk yard scenario.-a GIGO.-a If
this were April 1st I would assume this was a joke.-a It sounds like a
write up of Ed Conrad's fossil finds.
GIGO sums it up. Is this a case of guessing what the mechanism might be
and then setting up a computer model that shows that the guess won't
work? Big deal.
-a Apparently lipids have hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts
Is there any biochemist who doesn't know that?
Probably not, but this guy may be a physicist.
On 2025-09-06 04:10:47 +0000, Pro Plyd said:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study-
challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-
have-created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-
possibilities/ar-AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
If you think the universe is infinitely old, as I think Fred Hoyle did,
then that's a possibility. If you think it has an age about five times
the time the earth has been cool enough (the big-bang idea, which Hoyle
did _not_ accept), then the improvement in odds isn't worth bothering
with. You just move the problem of exlaining how life started to a
different place, adding an extra improbability as you need to explain
how it got here from that different place.
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities
On 9/6/2025 12:57 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2025-09-06 04:10:47 +0000, Pro Plyd said:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-study-
challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-
have-created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-
possibilities/ar-AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
If you think the universe is infinitely old, as I think Fred Hoyle
did, then that's a possibility. If you think it has an age about five
times the time the earth has been cool enough (the big-bang idea,
which Hoyle did _not_ accept), then the improvement in odds isn't
worth bothering with. You just move the problem of exlaining how life
started to a different place, adding an extra improbability as you
need to explain how it got here from that different place.
Where in our galaxy could life have arisen where it didn't get snuffed
out by exploding stellar neighbors.-a In our star poor region of the
galaxy it took over 8 billion years to produce all the elements needed
to make life possible and to flourish.-a Not only that, but the claim is that most of the carbon in the universe has been created in stars that
do not go bang.-a These are longer lived stars like ours that turn into
red giants to expel their carbon.-a Super nova create the elements
heavier than iron.
RonO wrote:
On 9/6/2025 12:57 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2025-09-06 04:10:47 +0000, Pro Plyd said:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-
study- challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds liferCOs origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of sciencerCOs most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-
have-created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-
possibilities/ar-AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
If you think the universe is infinitely old, as I think Fred Hoyle
did, then that's a possibility. If you think it has an age about five
times the time the earth has been cool enough (the big-bang idea,
which Hoyle did _not_ accept), then the improvement in odds isn't
worth bothering with. You just move the problem of exlaining how life
started to a different place, adding an extra improbability as you
need to explain how it got here from that different place.
Where in our galaxy could life have arisen where it didn't get snuffed
out by exploding stellar neighbors.-a In our star poor region of the
galaxy it took over 8 billion years to produce all the elements needed
to make life possible and to flourish.-a Not only that, but the claim
is that most of the carbon in the universe has been created in stars
that do not go bang.-a These are longer lived stars like ours that turn
into red giants to expel their carbon.-a Super nova create the elements
heavier than iron.
This was in fact one of Hoyle's great contributions.
It now seems to be accepted that a large fraction of-a the elements
heavier than iron are created in neutron star collisions.-a Though we
have detected one by the resulting gravity waves these must be rare,
this being compensated by the fact that the huge amount of ejected
material consists largely of heavy elements.
But as white dwarfs are vastly more common, and sometimes composed
largely of carbon, I wonder if a white dwarf/brown or red dwarf
collision might not eject a great deal of carbon and other light
elements into space. I do not think these collisions will produce a
gravity wave remotely detectable at the current time, so we will be
unable to observe these unless one occurs in our neighborhood.
A collision of two white dwarfs would seem likely to result in a neutron star or black hole but even then a great deal of mass might be ejected.
I've no idea whether this would produce a gravity wave detectable with current or near future technology.
But then, as supernovae eject huge amounts of carbon, oxygen and other
light elements it may be that while neutron star collisions are
significant contributors of heavy elements, white dwarf collisions, even
if more frequent, do not add significantly to the interstellar inventory
of lighter elements.
The universe is vastly more active than the rather staid version I
learned about many years ago.
William Hyde
On 9/6/2025 12:47 PM, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2025-09-06 14:11:27 +0000, RonO said:
On 9/5/2025 11:10 PM, Pro Plyd wrote:
Here we go again ;)
https://scitechdaily.com/the-math-says-life-shouldnt-exist-new-
study- challenges-origins-theories/
The study finds life|ore4raos origin faces severe
mathematical challenges. Chance alone may
not be enough.
A new study addresses one of science|ore4raos most
enduring questions: how did life first arise
from nonliving matter on the early Earth?
Using advanced mathematical methods, Robert
G. Endres of Imperial College London developed
a framework indicating that the spontaneous
emergence of life may have been far more
difficult than previously thought.
...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/could-extraterrestrials-
have- created-life-on-earth-new-study-raises-jaw-dropping-
possibilities/ar- AA1LEvhQ
Could Extraterrestrials Have Created Life on Earth?
New Study Raises Jaw-Dropping Possibilities
Probably due to GIGO.-a How can you model something when you do not
know how it happened?-a You'd have to model all the possible paths,
when you don't know what the possible paths are.
Since they found that lipids are hydrophobic and assemble in water
Who "found" it? That is something I've known for at last half a
century, and I'll bet that anyone who knew anything about lipids also
knew it.d
I don't know.-a It is just something that has been kicking around for a while.-a No one ever makes a big deal about it, but it demonstrates that other molecules besides proteins and RNAs can have catalytic ability,
and that is what is needed to get the first self replicators going.
-aand can even form the lipid bilayer of a cell membrane.
Likewise. Is this a physicist "discovering" stuff that biologists have
always known?
No.-a He seems to be repeating the tornado through a junkyard probability estimate that Dembski made a couple of decades ago to create his
information needed for life.-a Dembski admitted that it was a valid test almost as soon as the book was published.-a The article hasn't been
passed peer review at this time.-a It is posted at a prepeer review site.
-a These associations of lipids have been found to have enzymatic
activity, but I do not recall any origin of life scenarios that start
with making lipids, and having the lipids make other things.
Me neither.
It seems strange because you can make cellular blobs of lipid that would
be doing enzymatic things like making more lipids or lipid precursors.
-a Apparently lipids have hydrophilic and hydrophobic parts
Is there any biochemist who doesn't know that?
Probably not, but this guy may be a physicist.
-athat can come together and have enzymatic activity.
That is testable by experiment, not by playing around with a computer
model.
The way this guys modeling is described "By applying information
theory and algorithmic complexity, Endres analyzed what it would take
for the earliest living cell, known as a protocell, to self-assemble
from simple chemical components."-a As sad as it may be this guy seems
to have modeled the tornado through a junk yard scenario.-a GIGO.-a If
this were April 1st I would assume this was a joke.-a It sounds like a
write up of Ed Conrad's fossil finds.
GIGO sums it up. Is this a case of guessing what the mechanism might
be and then setting up a computer model that shows that the guess
won't work? Big deal.
The paper just hand waves mechanisms away and estimates the likely hood
and time it would take to get all the parts assembled to create the
first cell.
Ron Okimoto