From Newsgroup: talk.origins


https://phys.org/news/2025-08-chemists-rna-proteins-early-earth.html

Chemists at University College London have shown
how two of biology's most fundamental ingredients,
RNA (ribonucleic acid) and amino acids, could have
spontaneously joined together at the origin of life
four billion years ago.

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins,
the "workhorses" of life essential to nearly every
living process. But proteins cannot replicate or
produce themselvesrCothey require instructions. These
instructions are provided by RNA, a close chemical
cousin of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid).

In a new study, published in Nature, researchers
chemically linked life's amino acids to RNA in
conditions that could have occurred on early
EarthrCoan achievement that has eluded scientists
since the early 1970s.
...

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 28/08/2025 3:01 pm, Pro Plyd wrote:

https://phys.org/news/2025-08-chemists-rna-proteins-early-earth.html

Chemists at University College London have shown
how two of biology's most fundamental ingredients,
RNA (ribonucleic acid) and amino acids, could have
spontaneously joined together at the origin of life
four billion years ago.

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins,
the "workhorses" of life essential to nearly every
living process. But proteins cannot replicate or
produce themselvesrCothey require instructions. These
instructions are provided by RNA, a close chemical
cousin of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid).

In a new study, published in Nature, researchers
chemically linked life's amino acids to RNA in
conditions that could have occurred on early
EarthrCoan achievement that has eluded scientists
since the early 1970s.
...

"Our study brings us closer to that goal by demonstrating how two
primordial chemical LEGO pieces (activated amino acids and RNA) could
have built peptides, short chains of amino acids that are essential to
life."

This is prebiotic, which by definition precedes Darwinian evolution,
i.e. replication with random variation acted upon by natural selection resulting in differential reproductive success.

Therefore, even if random "short chains of amino acids" could be
produced, how do they become functional? Or more completely, how do we
get to a minimal entity capable of self-replication?

Self-replication in this context will have a high dependency on specific environmental conditions compared with a modern cell.

Because any conceivable "minimal entity capable of self-replication"
will be far too complex for random, chance formation, any realistic naturalistic hypothesis must provide a process of "chemical evolution".

What's your preferred hypothesis?

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 8/28/2025 12:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:

https://phys.org/news/2025-08-chemists-rna-proteins-early-earth.html

Chemists at University College London have shown
how two of biology's most fundamental ingredients,
RNA (ribonucleic acid) and amino acids, could have
spontaneously joined together at the origin of life
four billion years ago.

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins,
the "workhorses" of life essential to nearly every
living process. But proteins cannot replicate or
produce themselvesrCothey require instructions. These
instructions are provided by RNA, a close chemical
cousin of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid).

In a new study, published in Nature, researchers
chemically linked life's amino acids to RNA in
conditions that could have occurred on early
EarthrCoan achievement that has eluded scientists
since the early 1970s.
...

This really isn't necessary. A few months ago we were going around
MarkE's usual ool gap denial and I posted about ribozyme synthetases
that charged tRNAs with amino acids. This means that once RNA polymers
were being replicated that tRNAs could evolve and be charged with amino
acids by synthetases made of RNA. My guess is that tRNAs first evolved
to keep needed amino acids inside of the cell. If you bind an amino
acid to a tRNA it is less likely to defuse out of the cell. Some amino
acids are needed to make nucleotides. What they need to solve is why
RNA was first made. My guess is that nucleotides were used for the same things in the early self replicators as they are used for today. They
are energy transfer molecules (ATP, GTP, CTP, TTP). You could store the nucleotides as a RNA polymer in order to keep them from being lost from
the early cells. This would be before the genetic code evolved.

Ron Okimoto

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 8/28/2025 11:09 AM, RonO wrote:

On 8/28/2025 12:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:

https://phys.org/news/2025-08-chemists-rna-proteins-early-earth.html

Chemists at University College London have shown
how two of biology's most fundamental ingredients,
RNA (ribonucleic acid) and amino acids, could have
spontaneously joined together at the origin of life
four billion years ago.

Amino acids are the building blocks of proteins,
the "workhorses" of life essential to nearly every
living process. But proteins cannot replicate or
produce themselvesrCothey require instructions. These
instructions are provided by RNA, a close chemical
cousin of DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid).

In a new study, published in Nature, researchers
chemically linked life's amino acids to RNA in
conditions that could have occurred on early
EarthrCoan achievement that has eluded scientists
since the early 1970s.
...

This really isn't necessary.-a A few months ago we were going around
MarkE's usual ool gap denial and I posted about ribozyme synthetases
that charged tRNAs with amino acids.-a This means that once RNA polymers were being replicated that tRNAs could evolve and be charged with amino acids by synthetases made of RNA.-a My guess is that tRNAs first evolved
to keep needed amino acids inside of the cell.-a If you bind an amino
acid to a tRNA it is less likely to defuse out of the cell.-a Some amino acids are needed to make nucleotides.-a What they need to solve is why
RNA was first made.-a My guess is that nucleotides were used for the same things in the early self replicators as they are used for today.-a They
are energy transfer molecules (ATP, GTP, CTP, TTP).-a You could store the nucleotides as a RNA polymer in order to keep them from being lost from
the early cells.-a This would be before the genetic code evolved.

Ron Okimoto

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09388-y

The article is open access and they do make the claim that "So far,
there have been no chemical methods to effectively and selectively aminoacylate RNA-2rC#,3rC#-diols with the breadth of proteinogenic amino
acids in water3,4,5.". This is true, but it is negated by the fact that ribozymes (RNA polymers with enzymatic activity) exist that will charge
tRNAs with specific amino acids. You can even change the sequence of
the ribozymes so that they charge the tRNAs with the D form of the amino
acid instead of the L form. This means that the initial RNA protein
synthesis could have evolved to either use L or D amino acids. My guess
is that L amino acids were chosen because they were the ones used to
make nucleotides.

A water soluble chemical reaction isn't needed if you have an enzyme
that will do the job. If tRNA RNA polymers existed the ribozyme RNA
polymers could have evolved along with the Ribozyme peptidase that
joined the amino acids together.

Ron Okimoto

Ron Okimoto

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 8/28/2025 1:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:

Chemists at University College London have shown
how two of biology's most fundamental ingredients,
RNA (ribonucleic acid) and amino acids, could have
spontaneously joined together at the origin of life
four billion years ago.

did they test a full deduction or induction ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning


was the full induction or deduction reversible ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis

does a partial induction or deduction require a look at a full one ?

does a full induction or deduction require a look at a partial one ?


a statistical assumption ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_assumption


what value does the decision have ?
--
Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

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From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 8/28/2025 1:01 AM, Pro Plyd wrote:

In a new study, published in Nature, researchers
chemically linked life's amino acids to RNA in
conditions that could have occurred on early
EarthrCoan achievement that has eluded scientists
since the early 1970s.

what is the t-test and f-test of this sample ?

average ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-statistic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student's_t-test


variance ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-test
--
Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

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