• Re: Starship IFT-4, soon

    From Niklas Holsti@niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid to sci.space.policy on Tue Jun 4 12:51:26 2024
    From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

    On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
    On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:

    [ snip ]

    For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
    jettison of the Super HeavyrCOs hot-stage adapter following boostback to
    reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part
    will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
    departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
    work-around.

    Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
    think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to reduce mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce mass, so they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of hardware gets severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and it is easier to build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to survive intact.


    There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw

    The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the
    booster HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank
    capacity became insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are already built for the next few boosters and cannot easily be made
    larger. Discarding the hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a work-around for this header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future boosters with larger LOX header tanks.

    The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually
    tore itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This
    may have been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during
    its return.

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  • From Alain Fournier@alain245@videotron.ca to sci.space.policy on Tue Jun 4 08:43:42 2024
    From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

    On 2024-06-04 5:51 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
    On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
    On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:

    -a-a [ snip ]

    For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the
    jettison of the Super HeavyrCOs hot-stage adapter following boostback
    to reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that
    part will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
    departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
    work-around.

    Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
    think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to
    reduce mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce
    mass, so they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of
    hardware gets severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and
    it is easier to build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to
    survive intact.


    There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw

    The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the
    booster HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank
    capacity became insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are already built for the next few boosters and cannot easily be made
    larger. Discarding the hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a work-around for this header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future boosters with larger LOX header tanks.

    The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually
    tore itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This
    may have been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during
    its return.

    Thank you. The "CSI Starbase" video is cool.


    Alain Fournier

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  • From Snidely@snidely.too@gmail.com to sci.space.policy on Tue Jun 4 11:17:40 2024
    From Newsgroup: sci.space.policy

    Alain Fournier scribbled something on Tuesday the 6/4/2024:
    On 2024-06-04 5:51 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:
    On 2024-05-25 16:23, Alain Fournier wrote:
    On 2024-05-25 5:06 a.m., Niklas Holsti wrote:

    -a-a [ snip ]

    For IFT-4, they say that there are "operational changes including the >>>> jettison of the Super HeavyrCOs hot-stage adapter following boostback to >>>> reduce booster mass for the final phase of flight." What, so that part >>>> will fall into the ocean and not be reused? This is a surprising
    departure from earlier principles. Perhaps it is only a temporary
    work-around.

    Indeed, it is a surprising departure from earlier principles. I don't
    think that would be only a temporary work-around if they do so to reduce >>> mass. IFT-4 having no payload, they don't really need to reduce mass, so >>> they don't need to do it at all now. Perhaps this piece of hardware gets >>> severely damaged during flight (during hot-staging) and it is easier to >>> build a new one for each flight than to redesign it to survive intact.


    There is some good discussion by "CSI Starbase" in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytl1efG1sBw

    The main suggestion is that fixing other issues by additions to the booster >> HW increased booster mass so much that the LOX header tank capacity became >> insufficient for booster recovery. The header tanks are already built for >> the next few boosters and cannot easily be made larger. Discarding the
    hot-stage adapter, to reduce mass, may thus be a work-around for this
    header-tank issue, and may not be needed for future boosters with larger
    LOX header tanks.

    The video also presents evidence that the hot-stage adapter actually tore >> itself loose during the last minutes of IFT-3 booster flight. This may have >> been a factor in the booster's attitude-control problems during its return.

    Thank you. The "CSI Starbase" video is cool.


    Alain Fournier

    Zack doesn't do many videos, but he does excellent videos.

    /dps
    --
    Trust, but verify.
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