• Re: Can a Machine become self-aware?

    From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Mon Jul 7 22:03:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?

    Albert E. was a fraud.
    The religious fanatic YouWitz genocide club worships him as a got
    because he wrote a letter to president Roosevelt to make a bomb to commit genocide on Japanese civilians.
    Albert One Stone's way of reasoning was already proven wrong by Alain Aspect many years ago.

    To keep it simple again, the simplest explanation I come up with is:
    Le Sage particles (that cause gravity) travel at the speed of light,
    and some state of those particles (spin?) is what we experience as EM radiation.
    So basically EM radiation and gravity are passed on by the same particle.
    If you mess with electrons then you give locally a spin? (have an effect on) the Le Sage particles
    and those modified particles is what we perceive as light.
    Yet those modified gravity particles transfer a mechanical force too (solar sail).
    Very simple, explains everything.
    In deep space (as far as we know about it) the flux of Le Sage particles compresses matter...
    Near a heavy object (earth) this flux is lower (Le Sage particle partly intercepted by Earth) and matter gets less compressed, electron orbits get wider,
    the pendulum becomes longer, clocks move slower.
    Very simple.
    At some point all Le Sage particle are intercepted in case of an ever larger mass, no singularities! No silly divide by zero crap.
    No strings attached.
    Simple mechanics.,

    Do I have free will? Am I free Willy? Maybe its because I come from a family of watch makers?
    Frauds like Albert E are a disgrace to science and a big hurdle that you humming beans will have to overcome
    to UNDERSTAND nature.
    Where do Le Sage particles come from? From inside processes in stars or other celestial objects?
    If so the universe should push itself apart!
    Is seems to do so.
    If Le Sage particles (and so light) are the same thing, then gravity should move at the speed of light.
    It seems that has been confirmed.
    What keeps the electron moving around the nucleus in atoms?
    What is 'charge'? only a small step for men to open the eyes and now SEE.
    I have always been a rebel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation


    a rebel with the optical delusion of self-awarness...


    so the gorilla looks in the mirror but the
    mirror is broken..
    who is the third gorilla

    am i 3?
    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.
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  • From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Tue Jul 1 07:51:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?



    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    I see, you one of 'those' that post links that you yourself don't
    read...


    "Mirror tests" have been done on chimpanzees, elephants, dolphins and
    magpies.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness#:~:text=%5B39%5D-,Non%2Dhuman%20animals,-%5Bedit%5D



    German people are sooo lazy they take more sick days and any other euro >> >country!


    Are you fat too?

    It is sad that once you lost comprehension of the subject you start insulting.
    Low IQ sign.

    No I am not German.
    FYI: I am an alien lifeform doing some investigation here to see if you humming-beans pose a danger to the Intergalactic
    Union.
    If so, then you may be beamed-up.
    We have zoos were we keep a few of your species for tourists.
    Earth is not visited by many of us, as the intergalactic travel agency has advised against visiting earth as it is infested
    with humans and those are considered dangerous.
    So much for Seti.


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply a...optical delusion.

    It's sad that you and everyone else deny
    that which you believe is "self-awarness"...a self is simply

    an optical delusion.


    There are no "self-awarness" life forms on earth...

    and intelligent life does not exist on earth either.


    But I know yous people need your "optical delusions" to survive.


    Therefore you are not.


    If you are not German, that means you are not fat.


    wat other kind of people live in Germany?

    I do not know if you ever did some programing or neural net programing,
    or ever designed some 'machine' that did some task.. You sound a bit confused

    'Self awareness' is easy implemented by adding either some code or some hardware looking at what
    other parts of the system do, call it 'mirror neurons' or whatever,
    as I explained in the 'sunscreen with voice added example.
    No big deal and no dots on your head either. In that layer of extra (soft or hardware or both) MEMORY is
    an important part, it enables 'learning',
    In a biological system the learning may be stored even in the configuration or in RNA or DNA in cells
    and self modification of the neural net is also possible. We are, really, very simple.

    Some religious fanatic groups (basically kids who were fed false concepts and made slaves of their masters)
    will deny anything simple, make a big spectacle of a 'heaven or 'hell'
    and deny life is everywhere in the universe. Even the first Viking Mars experiment that was positive for life war denounced hours later!
    http://www.gillevin.com/
    We need a better system, US is dead.

    Maybe as soon as kids learn to play with software and neural net software and bots, will they SEE that they are being used by some religious fanatic idiots,
    Design something.
    Or maybe their DNS structure is modified to make them 'great believers'
    In that case the species will either die, or hold back evolution for many years
    because of religious concepts.
    Ultimately Darwin applies, some other lifeform, from fungi to what not, may outlive and outsmart the human species.
    Holy shit what goes:
    Pay money to your religious leader and you are a 'good believer'
    In medieval times the sun was orbiting the earth and they had math to show where it was , and the planets, at any time
    As full of bullshit as Albert E science was, and for a fact is still today.

    For the real a tit fitty club, if Le Sage particles travel at (approximately) C and light is a state of those LS particles then
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges-Louis_Le_Sage
    we are done with Albert E. and if these LS particles originate in stars or holes (black or white duh), then the universe will expand
    Throw in some slowing of the LS particles over time ..
    Near to earth more Le Sage particles are intercepted by earth, matter gets less compressed, 'the pendulum get longer'
    time slows down! And you should also see spectrum widening, as the particle flux is now different coming from different sides.
    Now it is fun again, no singularities
    at some point all particles are intercepted, no math bullshit divide by zero, MOVE ON .
    There are no infinities in Nature, something will always give way.
    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.
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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 06:41:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?

    Well, I do seem to be self-aware, even evaluate what I am - and have been - doing.
    3 days all day long computa all weekend..
    And some garden work.
    I tested the high temperature warning here by going out in the garden and watched a movie on the laptop in the sun.
    The laptop housing got so hot that if you touched it it felt like burning your fingers.
    Very bright sun, but could still follow the screen display.
    Old Samsung laptop, from 2011, still has a DVD player / writer in it, latest Ubuntu on it...
    Screen display is very good.
    Maybe for brighter (even brighter than this it won't get?) light I have a Pocketbook Aqua2, just for data, not for movies.
    Anyways 32 degrees outside measured here.
    That Aqua2 is nice for on a boat..

    As always: experimenting, writing scrips ...

    So self-aware..
    Free Willy? Sure, depends on your point of view, did you plan your own birth? And where you grew up?
    Much depends on the environment, genetics passed on from parents, education, etc etc..

    One day, when I am 'gone', some of my electrons and other chemical parts will maybe become part of you
    or others.
    If you go into quantum coupling some of what I did may make them steer what others do..

    Sound of thunder now here, lightning, better stay inside, flashes ..
    Got some more code to write and test.



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  • From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 10:56:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."


    There is no "free will", and there is no "self-awarness".
    No "free will", and no "self-awarness" goes hand in hand.
    It's impossible to have "self-awarness" if there is no free will, and
    visa versa.

    Since, "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by
    forces over which we have no control".


    Albert Einstein stated, "I am a determinist. As such, I do not
    believe in free will."
    "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by
    forces over which we have no control".

    https://www.google.com/search?q=einstein+determinism+quote


    "Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces
    over which we have no control. It is determined for the insect, as
    well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all
    dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible
    piper. - Albert Einstein

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  • From Physfitfreak@physfitfreak@gmail.com to sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 13:49:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 7/2/25 1:41 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Anyways 32 degrees outside measured here.


    32 degrees what.
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  • From squalk@sq@net.inv to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 20:03:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 13:12:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 20:03:03 +0100, squalk <sq@net.inv> wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    People
    are
    the
    voice
    of
    Nature

    It is Nature that speaks thru Einstein.


    Why do you ...squawk?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From squalk@sq@net.inv to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 21:21:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 20:03:03 +0100, squalk <sq@net.inv> wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    People
    are
    the
    voice
    of
    Nature

    It is Nature that speaks thru Einstein.


    Why do you ...squawk?

    ---------------------------------

    I believe in free will.

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  • From Chris M. Thomasson@chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Wed Jul 2 15:30:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 7/2/2025 1:21 PM, squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 20:03:03 +0100, squalk <sq@net.inv> wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    People
    are
    the
    voice
    of
    Nature

    It is Nature that speaks thru Einstein.


    Why do you ...squawk?

    ---------------------------------

    I believe in free will.


    Would a honey bee still sting if it knew it was going to die?
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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 08:24:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    On 7/2/25 1:41 AM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Anyways 32 degrees outside measured here.


    32 degrees what.

    Celsius
    There is a heat alert in large part of Europe.
    Spain and Italy about 46 degrees C IIRC.
    I am more north, 32 degrees C in the Netherlands where I live.
    Was curious how I would cope .. no problem
    But I had no problem either at -40 C walking around in jeans once.




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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 08:24:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?

    Albert E. was a fraud.
    The religious fanatic YouWitz genocide club worships him as a got
    because he wrote a letter to president Roosevelt to make a bomb to commit genocide on Japanese civilians.
    Albert One Stone's way of reasoning was already proven wrong by Alain Aspect many years ago.

    To keep it simple again, the simplest explanation I come up with is:
    Le Sage particles (that cause gravity) travel at the speed of light,
    and some state of those particles (spin?) is what we experience as EM radiation.
    So basically EM radiation and gravity are passed on by the same particle.
    If you mess with electrons then you give locally a spin? (have an effect on) the Le Sage particles
    and those modified particles is what we perceive as light.
    Yet those modified gravity particles transfer a mechanical force too (solar sail).
    Very simple, explains everything.
    In deep space (as far as we know about it) the flux of Le Sage particles compresses matter...
    Near a heavy object (earth) this flux is lower (Le Sage particle partly intercepted by Earth) and matter gets less compressed, electron orbits get wider,
    the pendulum becomes longer, clocks move slower.
    Very simple.
    At some point all Le Sage particle are intercepted in case of an ever larger mass, no singularities! No silly divide by zero crap.
    No strings attached.
    Simple mechanics.,

    Do I have free will? Am I free Willy? Maybe its because I come from a family of watch makers?
    Frauds like Albert E are a disgrace to science and a big hurdle that you humming beans will have to overcome
    to UNDERSTAND nature.
    Where do Le Sage particles come from? From inside processes in stars or other celestial objects?
    If so the universe should push itself apart!
    Is seems to do so.
    If Le Sage particles (and so light) are the same thing, then gravity should move at the speed of light.
    It seems that has been confirmed.
    What keeps the electron moving around the nucleus in atoms?
    What is 'charge'? only a small step for men to open the eyes and now SEE.
    I have always been a rebel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 08:37:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?

    Albert E. was a fraud.
    The religious fanatic YouWitz genocide club worships him as a got
    because he wrote a letter to president Roosevelt to make a bomb to commit genocide on Japanese civilians.
    Albert One Stone's way of reasoning was already proven wrong by Alain Aspect many years ago.

    To keep it simple again, the simplest explanation I come up with is:
    Le Sage particles (that cause gravity) travel at the speed of light,
    and some state of those particles (spin?) is what we experience as EM radiation.
    So basically EM radiation and gravity are passed on by the same particle.
    If you mess with electrons then you give locally a spin? (have an effect on) the Le Sage particles
    and those modified particles is what we perceive as light.
    Yet those modified gravity particles transfer a mechanical force too (solar sail).
    Very simple, explains everything.
    In deep space (as far as we know about it) the flux of Le Sage particles compresses matter...
    Near a heavy object (earth) this flux is lower (Le Sage particle partly intercepted by Earth) and matter gets less compressed, electron orbits get wider,
    the pendulum becomes longer, clocks move slower.
    Very simple.
    At some point all Le Sage particle are intercepted in case of an ever larger mass, no singularities! No silly divide by zero crap.
    No strings attached.
    Simple mechanics.,

    Do I have free will? Am I free Willy? Maybe its because I come from a family of watch makers?
    Frauds like Albert E are a disgrace to science and a big hurdle that you humming beans will have to overcome
    to UNDERSTAND nature.
    Where do Le Sage particles come from? From inside processes in stars or other celestial objects?
    If so the universe should push itself apart!
    Is seems to do so.
    If Le Sage particles (and so light) are the same thing, then gravity should move at the speed of light.
    It seems that has been confirmed.
    What keeps the electron moving around the nucleus in atoms?
    What is 'charge'? only a small step for men to open the eyes and now SEE.
    I have always been a rebel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Thomas Heger@ttt_heg@web.de to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 20:01:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Am Mittwoch000002, 02.07.2025 um 21:03 schrieb squalk:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?

    Easy:

    somebody said:

    "listen, Albert, you say the following the next day:
    'I do not believe in free will'."


    TH
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  • From Thomas Heger@ttt_heg@web.de to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 20:04:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Am Mittwoch000002, 02.07.2025 um 22:12 schrieb The Starmaker:


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    People
    are
    the
    voice
    of
    Nature

    Well, possibly, but only if we include some forces into the term
    'nature', too, which currently are regarded as belonging to politics,
    media or society.

    It is Nature that speaks thru Einstein.

    Well, possibly it was his wife.

    That is also nature.


    TH

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  • From Thomas Heger@ttt_heg@web.de to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics on Thu Jul 3 20:06:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics

    Am Mittwoch000002, 02.07.2025 um 22:21 schrieb squalk:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Wed, 2 Jul 2025 20:03:03 +0100, squalk <sq@net.inv> wrote:

    The Starmaker wrote:
    On Tue, 01 Jul 2025 07:51:19 -0700, The Starmaker
    <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

    Are you aware Jan that not only
    you have 'no self-awareness' but also
    you have no free will?


    That which you believe is "self-awarness"...
    according to Albert Einstein is simply an..."optical delusion".

    And Albert Einstein also said:"...I do not believe in free will."

    ----------------------------------------

    How could he say that, if he had no free will?



    People
    are
    the
    voice
    of
    Nature

    It is Nature that speaks thru Einstein.


    Why do you ...squawk?

    ---------------------------------

    I believe in free will.


    Someone said:

    Ok, me too, but not in freedom after will.


    TH
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