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On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no >>>> currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder? >>>>
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
Algonquin: papoose = child?
Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie
Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
---
[Algonquin English translator]
Baby. Ninige
Child Ninigo
---
[Proto-Algonquin English translator]
Child. awabEosi- na
Child nibEo-iyabEona na
Cree awabEosis child
Ojibwe awabEosi+i+i child
---
Waboose. baby rabbit
---
child (a youth) [Swadesh list]
abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pook|i|i (Blackfoot Algonquin)
mim|2ns (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
eks|a:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli (Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatseke (Nataway Iroquois)
---
5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote: >>>>>
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder? >>>>
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
Algonquin: papoose = child?
It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance
in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A
Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie
Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
---
[Algonquin English translator]
Baby. Ninige
Child Ninigo
---
[Proto-Algonquin English translator]
Child. awabEosi- na
Child nibEo-iyabEona na
Cree awabEosis child
Ojibwe awabEosi+i+i child
---
Waboose. baby rabbit
---
child (a youth) [Swadesh list]
abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pook|i|i (Blackfoot Algonquin)
mim|2ns (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
eks|a:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli (Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatseke (Nataway Iroquois)
---
5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> posted:
On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve Hayes
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote: >>>>>
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder? >>>>
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her >>>> back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on >>>> a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose".
I thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
Algonquin: papoose = child?
It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance
in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
Under Wikipedia Massachusett Pidgin English, I found some support: pappoose,[14] 'baby.' Possibly from Narragansett pappo|#s. Massachusett form is papeiss[25] (p|opeewees})[26] /pa-Epi-Ewi-Es/}. Compare Mohegan-Pequot p|ipohs /pa-Epu-Ehs/.[27]
27 papohs. (2012). Fielding, S. Mohegan Dictionary. Mohegan Tribe
Seems certain then, papoose was indeed baby, not cradleboard.
Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie
Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
---
[Algonquin English translator]
Baby. Ninige
Child Ninigo
---
[Proto-Algonquin English translator]
Child. awabEosi- na
Child nibEo-iyabEona na
Cree awabEosis child
Ojibwe awabEosi+i+i child
---
Waboose. baby rabbit
---
child (a youth) [Swadesh list]
abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pook|i|i (Blackfoot Algonquin)
mim|2ns (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
eks|a:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli (Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatseke (Nataway Iroquois)
---
5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> posted:
On 9/08/2025 6:13 a.m., DDeden wrote:
DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:
Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> posted:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 15:39:20 -0400, Tony Cooper
<tonycooper214@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 01 Sep 2024 18:36:10 +0200, Steve HayesI thought that the baby would stay in the carrier when laid on
<hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote:
On Sat, 31 Aug 2024 22:17:55 +0100, Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote: >>>>>
Cradle boards and other child carriers used by Native Americans are known by
various names. In Algonquin history, the term papoose is sometimes used to
refer to a child carrier.?
Given I am 43 and fairly well-read I can assert that it has basically no
currency outside the US.
The native-American "papoose" back-board child carrier
was known to me in early childhood (and probably every
other kid enthralled by "Cowboys and Indians".
When we had children I rediscovered it all over again
thanks to Mothercare. We had a baby back carrier called a
papoose.
So it seems that people within the US understand "papoose" as
referring to a child, and outside the US it refers to a child holder?
Please...write "some people".
If I see an (American) Indian with a baby in a carrier strapped to her
back, I would describe that as a woman with a papoose.
However, if she removes the baby from the carrier and puts the baby on
a blanket on the ground, I would not say the baby is a "papoose". >>>
the ground. I thought they followed the baby-handling tradition
of keeping them bound up.
I had not ever been challenged with an Indian baby on the
loose, and someone looking for a word to describe them.
From the earlier discussion, I conclude that only the bound
baby is a papoose.
As I understand it, the baby in the papoose (porter?) was backstrapped to the parent, and for a rest it was hung on a branch or tilted against a tree trunk not laid flat on the ground except to change the moss/diaper.
Wikipedia claims that papoose meant child. Other Algonquin words for child are not similar to papoose.
Algonquin: papoose = child?
It's certainly not general Algonquian. Bright refers to its appearance in a vocabulary of 1643, which almost certainly means Roger Williams' _A Key into the Language of America_, and the language is Naragansett.
Under Wikipedia Massachusett Pidgin English, I found some support: pappoose,[14] 'baby.' Possibly from Narragansett pappo|#s. Massachusett form is papeiss[25] (p|opeewees})[26] /pa-Epi-Ewi-Es/}. Compare Mohegan-Pequot p|ipohs /pa-Epu-Ehs/.[27]
27 papohs. (2012). Fielding, S. Mohegan Dictionary. Mohegan Tribe
Seems certain then, papoose was indeed baby, not cradleboard.
Cite at Mohegan Pequot dictionary
p|ihpohs, NA child, baby
plural p|ihpohsak locative p|ihpohsuk
Nuwiktamumun yo natawahuw||k, wipi c||ci nup|isaw||mun p|ihpohs i nikun:
We have enjoyed this visit, but we must take our baby home.
Boy. Mukkutchouks
Girl. Nunksqua
Infant, or child. Mukkie
Viewing page 7 of 20 for project 8323 | Smithsonian Digital Volunteers https://share.google/9b13kDhSL8K33p4cB
---
[Algonquin English translator]
Baby. Ninige
Child Ninigo
---
[Proto-Algonquin English translator]
Child. awabEosi- na
Child nibEo-iyabEona na
Cree awabEosis child
Ojibwe awabEosi+i+i child
---
Waboose. baby rabbit
---
child (a youth) [Swadesh list]
abinoojiinh (Ojibwa Algonquin)
pook|i|i (Blackfoot Algonquin)
mim|2ns (Munsee Lenape Algonquin).
eks|a:'a (Mohawk Iroquois)
ayoli (Cherokee Iroquois)
nakatseke (Nataway Iroquois)
---
5ka baby carriers in Germany with dog teeth decoration
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/5-000-year-old-burials-in-germany-hold-3-women-with-bedazzled-baby-carriers
If we go back much further in time, toddlers were piggyback riding on their parent's backs, with fingers and toes grasping scalp hair for anchorage.