• Re: Re. Re. Paleo-etymology (Final 400)

    From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Wed Aug 6 05:11:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Back from exile. Now using Newsgrouper, learning the format.

    My website: https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords/message/578
    DD
    ---

    Daud Deden <daud.deden@gmail.com> posted:

    On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 7:11:08rC>AM UTC-4, Daud Deden wrote:
    On Friday, July 28, 2023 at 2:07:03rC>AM UTC-4, Ruud Harmsen wrote:
    Thu, 27 Jul 2023 13:45:38 -0700 (PDT): Daud Deden
    <daud....@gmail.com> scribeva:
    On Thursday, July 27, 2023 at 4:02:38?PM UTC-4, Ross Clark wrote:
    On 28/07/2023 1:22 a.m., Daud Deden wrote:
    Sons of Jacob (in Russian): Synovya Iakova (?)

    Not correct.
    What's not correct?
    synovial (adj.)
    1756, "pertaining to the synovia," albuminous fluid secreted by certain glands, from Modern Latin sinovia (16c.), probably coined by Paracelsus and apparently an invented word.

    syn- [ xyuamb, sum]
    word-forming element meaning "together with, jointly; alike; at the same time," also sometimes completive or intensive, from Greek syn (prep.) "with, together with, along with, in the company of," from PIE *ksun- "with" (source also of Russian so- "with, together," from Old Russian su(n)-). Assimilated to -l-, reduced to sy- before -s- and -z-, and altered to sym- before -b-, -m- and -p-.

    No,no,no.
    Synovya is an archaic plural of Russian /syn/ 'son'. Yes, cognate with
    the English word. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%81%D1%8B%D0%BD#Declension_3 calls
    it irregular, not archaic.
    Thanks, interesting. I checked 3 sites googling 'etym synovya', no mention of syn/son in Russian, all mentioned synovial fluid, so I thought the original cite (Clive Cussler, author of fiction, novel) was in error or invented.
    I guess you mean that 'synovya' is cognate with 'sons'.
    --
    Ruud Harmsen, https://rudhar.com
    Etymology

    u-stem derivation from the root *sewH- (rCLto give birthrCY), thus the original meaning being "birth, fruit of the body". Tocharian, Greek and Armenian reflect the -yu- derivation from the same root: *suHy||s. Sanskrit an+aNean+an+ (s+2b|u-U|U, rCLparturient womanrCY) and Albanian gjysh (< Proto-Albanian *s+2+i-U) derived from later variation *suHs||s.

    Noun
    *suhreUn||s or *suhrean||s m[1]
    son

    -
    Cognate with 'issue'?
    Xyua(mbuatl) through, threw, in parallel with Malay bua(h/t/ng) fruit-fert/make/throw out-parturate (xyuam)buatl

    Compare *sewH- birthing with *tewh- swelling and to endu/endo, Theo/Deu/tue.sday, xyua- opening of dome hut
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  • From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Mon Aug 18 00:49:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Restarting thread from here, Aug. 2025

    Spanish & Welsh cognates (facebook)

    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/178M8HSo9e/
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  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to sci.lang on Mon Aug 18 21:08:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Ar an t-ocht|| l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh DDeden:

    Restarting thread from here, Aug. 2025

    Spanish & Welsh cognates (facebook)

    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/178M8HSo9e/

    God bless you, Facebook, you have locked me out, I cannot make any further comments without making a Facebook account, which account I deleted over a decade ago, and with which decision I am happy. I wish rCLPolyglots (The Community)rCY well with this long-standing thread which, as far as I can see, was
    a waste of everyonerCOs time.
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
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  • From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Wed Aug 20 04:33:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> posted:


    Ar an t-ocht|| l|i d|-ag de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh DDeden:

    Restarting thread from here, Aug. 2025

    Spanish & Welsh cognates (facebook)

    https://www.facebook.com/share/p/178M8HSo9e/

    God bless you, Facebook, you have locked me out, I cannot make any further comments without making a Facebook account, which account I deleted over a decade ago, and with which decision I am happy. I wish rCLPolyglots (The Community)rCY well with this long-standing thread which, as far as I can see, was
    a waste of everyonerCOs time.

    Thanks for the input, Aidan.
    Actually I deleted facebook a few hours ago, after restarting Facebook-lite, a much smaller interface.
    If you refer to this Paleo-etymology thread at Sci.lang as 'a waste of everyone's time', (rather than the link to the thread Spanish & Welsh cognates), then I suggest you not read any further Paleo-etymology posts.

    Slainte
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  • From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Thu Aug 21 06:08:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Cringe crouch s.crunch shrug crotch squat

    Cringe
    1570s, "to bend or crouch, especially with servility or fear," variant of crenge, crenche "to bend" (c. 1200), from causative of Old English cringan "yield, give way, fall (in battle); become bent," from Proto-Germanic *krank- "bend, curl up" (source also of Old Norse kringr, Dutch kring, German Kring "circle, ring"). Related: Cringed; cringing. As a noun from 1590s

    Crouch
    "to stoop low, lie close to the ground," late 14c., probably from Old French crochir "become bent, crooked," from croche "hook" (see crochet). Related: Crouched; crouching. As a noun, "a crouching position," from 1590s

    S.Crunch
    1825, "to bite, crush with or as with the teeth," intensive form of crunch (v.); ultimately imitative (see scr-). The colloquial meaning "to squeeze, crush" is by 1835 (implied in scrunched). The intransitive sense of "contract oneself into a more compact shape" is by 1884

    initial sound-cluster, containing the exceptions to the general rule that sc- or sk- in Modern English indicates a word not from Old English (whose sc- regularly becomes sh-). Words often are found in pairs, especially in dialect and slang, one in scr-, one in shr- (or schr-); a prominent surviving example is shred and screed, the same Old English word surviving in two forms now much different in meaning.OED also notes that "Many English words beginning with scr- agree more or less closely in meaning with other words differing from them in form only by the absence of the initial s" (such as crunch/scrunch, scringe, an alternative form of cringe, etc.)It does not appear that these coincidences are due to any one general cause ..., but it is probable that the existence of many pairs of synonyms with scr- and cr- produced a tendency to change cr-, in words expressive of sounds or physical movements, into scr- so as to render the word echoic or phonetically symbolic. [OED]

    Shrug
    late 14c., shruggen, "raise or draw up (the shoulders) with a sudden movement," a word of uncertain origin, perhaps connected to Danish skrugge "to stoop, crouch".

    Crotch
    1530s, "pitchfork," from Old North French croche "shepherd's crook," variant of croc "hook," from Old Norse krokr "hook," which is of obscure origin but perhaps related to the widespread group of Germanic kr- words meaning "bent, hooked".

    Squat
    mid-14c., squatten, "to crush, flatten" (a sense now obsolete); early 15c., "crouch on the heels," from Old French esquatir, escatir "compress, press down, lay flat, crush," from es- "out" (see ex-) + Old French quatir "press down, flatten," from Vulgar Latin *coactire "press together, force," from Latin coactus, past participle of cogere "to compel, curdle, collect" (see cogent).

    https://www.facebook.com/share/r/19JSt1sgEF/
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  • From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Sun Aug 24 20:08:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Camphor, a white crystalline tree resin, from PMP qapuR : lime from burnt coral/shell, for betel chewing, also a white crystalline powder, used around SEA but not at Vanatua where kava2 usage originated (kava <~ qapuR?).

    https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords/message/630

    Camphor sounds similar to camp, kampong, kampf, xyuambuatl; perhaps derived from use of calcium for cement or ceramic?
    Was powdered limestone mixed with mud or manure in house (mortar, brick, adobe?) construction?

    QapuR distinct from kapu = taboo

    Camphor was burnt at Batu Caves, M'sia during Thaipusam Indian festival which I attended.
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  • From DDeden@user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.lang on Tue Aug 26 12:06:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    DDeden <user5108@newsgrouper.org.invalid> posted:


    Camphor, a white crystalline tree resin, from PMP qapuR : lime from burnt coral/shell, for betel chewing, also a white crystalline powder, used around SEA but not at Vanatua where kava2 usage originated (kava <~ qapuR?).

    https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords/message/630

    Camphor sounds similar to camp, kampong, kampf, xyuambuatl; perhaps derived from use of calcium for cement or ceramic?
    Was powdered limestone mixed with mud or manure in house (mortar, brick, adobe?) construction?

    Cob(b) construction uses lime qapuR when available:
    Cob, cobb, or clom (in Wales) is a natural building material made from subsoil, water, fibrous organic material (typically straw), and sometimes lime.[1] The contents of subsoil vary, and if it does not contain the right mixture, it can be modified with sand or clay. Cob is fireproof, termite proof, resistant to seismic activity,[2] and uses low-cost materials, although it is very labour intensive

    Copp: an English topographic name for someone who lived on the top of a (hump lump rounded) hill: from Middle English coppe, Old English copp 'summit'.

    Cob-a XyUAmBuatla KUPharigolu -> coracle qwrwgl curragh topi topa

    "heap, lump, rounded object," also "head," and metaphoric extensions of both. With its cognates in other Germanic languages, of uncertain origin and development."The O.E.D. recognizes eight nouns cob, with numerous sub-groups. Like other monosyllables common in the dial[ect] its hist[ory] is inextricable" [Weekley]. In the 2nd print edition, the number stands at 11. Some senses are probably from Old English copp "top, head," others probably from Old Norse kubbi or Low German, all the words perhaps trace to a Proto-Germanic base *kubb- "something rounded."Among the earliest attested English senses are "headman, chief," and "male swan," both early 15c., but the surname Cobb (1066) suggests Old English used a form of the word as a nickname for "big, leading man." The "corn shoot" sense is attested by 1680s
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  • From Ross Clark@benlizro@ihug.co.nz to sci.lang on Thu Aug 28 16:00:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang

    On 25/08/2025 8:08 a.m., DDeden wrote:

    Camphor, a white crystalline tree resin, from PMP qapuR : lime from burnt coral/shell, for betel chewing, also a white crystalline powder, used around SEA but not at Vanatua where kava2 usage originated (kava <~ qapuR?).

    https://groups.io/g/1WorldofWords/message/630

    Camphor sounds similar to camp, kampong, kampf, xyuambuatl; perhaps derived from use of calcium for cement or ceramic?
    Was powdered limestone mixed with mud or manure in house (mortar, brick, adobe?) construction?

    QapuR distinct from kapu = taboo

    Camphor was burnt at Batu Caves, M'sia during Thaipusam Indian festival which I attended.


    Camphor sounds to me like a product of medieval technology, hence not
    likely to be of any great antiquity in Austronesian cultures or
    languages. Blust has a PAN *dakeS for the camphor laurel (Cinnamomum
    spp.), but attested only in Formosan languages.
    Otherwise nothing.

    OED traces English "camphor" and the other European words through Arabic k-Uf+2r, and k-Up+2r in Old Persian, Hindi and Malay. They also cite a Sanskrit karp+2ram, but don't say how early that form is (they never do),
    or whether there is any evidence whether it's a local formation or a borrowing. I would see the Malay word as a straight borrowing from India
    or Persia, particularly given the long vowels in both syllables.
    My 1960s Eng-Indo dictionary doesn't even give a word for camphor. (It's
    not as common a household product as it used to be.) However, Winstedt
    says it's Malay kapor Barus. I don't know what "Barus" is supposed to
    mean there, but "kapor" is defnitely lime or lime-kiln. So clearly
    somebody saw a resemblance with that other white crystalline substance.

    PAN *qapuR, PMP *kapuR for lime (calcium carbonate), made by burning
    shell or coral limestone, used in betel-chewing, have reflexes all
    through AN as far as the Solomons. And, as you say, that's where the
    betel stops and kava begins. I don't think the name of Piper methysticum
    is related to the lime words. Proto-Oceanic *kawa is based on
    Polynesian, southern Vanuatu and a scattering of other cognate forms.
    (In most of Vanuatu it's called *maloqu.) John Lynch's conclusion was
    that it was a metathetic variant of *wakaR 'root'.

    The word *qapuR is still around in Vanuatu, often with adjacent senses
    such as "ashes" or "dust". Lime itself had other uses -- notably for
    bleaching hair (or even a head-covering when out fishing -- Buck, Samoan Material Culture) -- so the making of it never disappeared. In Fijian
    and Polynesian it's called *lase -- originally the coral rock from which
    it's derived.

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