• Back in the Days

    From Ross Clark@benlizro@ihug.co.nz to sci.lang on Tue Aug 5 09:08:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang

    1 August was Swiss National Day.

    As always: why this day?
    As usually, Wiki has an answer.
    As often, it is not a simple matter.

    Federal Charter of 1291 (Pacte du Gr|+tli), when three Alpine cantons
    (Schwyz, Uri and Unterwalden) swore the oath of confederation, "said to
    have taken place in early August".

    Its anniversary was not celebrated until somebody had the idea of "a celebration in Bern in 1891 that would combine the city's 700th
    anniversary with the Confederacy's 600th anniversary."
    At this period, the Swiss were more likely to think of the anniversary
    of their nationhood as 8 November, the date of the R|+tlischwur (1307).
    (That one's actually in _Wilhem Tell_.)
    Only in the 20th century did the August date become more prominent, and
    it's only been an official holiday from 1994.
    ObLang: Schwur 'oath' -- a new German word for me. But they also have
    Eid, which is cognate with the English. Is there a difference?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_National_Day
    ----
    4 August, things get busy:

    In Iceland: Fr|!dagur verslunarmanna or Verslunarmannahelgi (translated
    as "Merchants Day" or "Commerce Day") (first Monday in August).
    I can't find out anything about what inspired this holiday, except that
    it's said to date from 1894. Just to show the world that Iceland's "business-friendly"?
    ObLang: My information on Icelandic is so poor that I can't even guess
    at an etymology for "verslunarmanna".

    Could "Commerce Day" be related to "bank holiday"? I used to hear/read
    this expression from British sources and didn't understand it. A day off
    for the poor hard-working banks, so they can take the kids to the beach?

    In fact it seems to be just a generic.
    Wiki:
    A bank holiday is a national public holiday in the United Kingdom and
    the Crown Dependencies, and a colloquial term for a public holiday in
    Ireland. In the United Kingdom, the term refers to all public holidays,
    be they set out in statute, declared by royal proclamation, or held by convention under common law. In Ireland, there are some bank holidays
    which are not public holidays.
    The term "bank holiday" refers to the fact that banking institutions
    typically close for business on such holidays, as they once did on
    certain saint's days.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_holiday

    The whole thing dates to the "Bank Holidays Act 1871", which, along with Easter Monday, Whit Monday, and Boxing Day, proclaimed the first Monday
    in August "August Bank Holiday", just because it would be nice to have a holiday about that time. (Changed to last Monday in August, 1960s, for England, Wales and NIreland, but still first Monday in Scotland.)

    Anyhow, my master list has "Bank Holiday" on 4 August in Ireland, which
    would appear to have a similar origin.

    But what's this? Another generic? "Civic Holiday" in Canada (except
    Quebec)?!
    Never heard of it, me (born and raised in Canada).
    Turns out it's not really nationally mandated, but an amalgamation of a
    lot of local and provincial holidays, which still go by many local
    names, mostly not dating earlier than the 1970s. After my time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civic_Holiday


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  • From guido wugi@wugi@brol.invalid to sci.lang on Tue Aug 5 10:48:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang

    Op 4/08/2025 om 23:08 schreef Ross Clark:
    ObLang: Schwur 'oath' -- a new German word for me. But they also have
    Eid, which is cognate with the English. Is there a difference?

    AI, recapitulating:
    <<Zusammenfassend: W|nhrend der Eid oft mit rechtlichen oder
    institutionellen Kontexten verbunden ist, ist der Schwur ein weiter
    gefasster Begriff, der sowohl im Alltag als auch bei besonderen Anl|nssen verwendet werden kann, um eine Aussage oder ein Versprechen zu
    bekr|nftigen. >>
    "Eid" is more for institutional/judicial usage, "Schwur" (also) more
    general.

    In Dutch we have "eed" (oath) and "zweren" (to swear [an oath, not
    blasphemy which has "vloeken", "vloek"=curse]), but "zweer" has no oath meaning, it does mean ulcer, with a verb "zweren" conjugated differently.
    Hij zwoer een dure eed,
    he swore a precious oath.
    Joking langslip:
    Hij zwoer een dure zweer.
    --
    guido wugi
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  • From Aidan Kehoe@kehoea@parhasard.net to sci.lang on Tue Aug 5 16:18:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang


    Ar an c||igi|| l|i de m|! L||nasa, scr|!obh Ross Clark:

    [...] ObLang: Schwur 'oath' -- a new German word for me. But they also have Eid, which is cognate with the English. Is there a difference?

    I wasnrCOt familiar with -+Schwur-2 but of course knew -+schw||ren.-2 CanrCOt comment on
    a difference.

    [...] Anyhow, my master list has "Bank Holiday" on 4 August in Ireland, which would appear to have a similar origin.

    I hate bank holidays, they mean I have to do five daysrCO work in the course of four. This is not a widely-shared attitude. Today hasnrCOt been too bad, but usually the Tuesday after a bank holiday is horrendous.
    --
    rCyAs I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
    How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stoutrCO
    (C. Moore)
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  • From Christian Weisgerber@naddy@mips.inka.de to sci.lang on Tue Aug 5 15:47:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.lang

    On 2025-08-05, guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

    "Eid" is more for institutional/judicial usage, "Schwur" (also) more general.

    I think so, too.

    In Dutch we have "eed" (oath) and "zweren" (to swear [an oath, not
    blasphemy which has "vloeken", "vloek"=curse]), but "zweer" has no oath meaning, it does mean ulcer, with a verb "zweren" conjugated differently.

    I feel the verb "schw||ren - schwor - geschworen" is used a lot more
    than the noun. The -||- is odd... Pfeifer's Etym. Dict. doesn't
    say, but I assume Early Modern German sporadic rounding e > || under
    the influence of the preceding [-a-+v].

    As in Dutch, "Eid"/"Schwur"/"schw||ren" never refer to 'curse, blasphemy',
    for which "Fluch"/"fluchen" are used.

    For the ulcer, the German cognate is "Geschw|+r" related to the semi-obsolescent verb "schw|nren". Those appear to be unrelated to
    "Schwur".
    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
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