• Prism D/A converter repair

    From liz@liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) to sci.electronics.repair on Fri Jul 11 16:21:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.repair

    I was asked by a friend if I could sort out a problem that had struck
    his highly-specialised professional record-transcription equipment. On
    quiet notes the Right channel was slightly low in output but louder
    notes produced violent blasts of distortion; the left channel was
    unaffected.

    The problem seemed to be originating in a rack with a Prism A/D
    converter, a couple of Cedar de-noisers and a Prism D/A converter.
    By-passing the Cedar produced no improvement, neither did a substitute
    A/D converter. The fault was definitely coming from the D/A converter; swapping analogue leads around showed that the fault stayed with Right
    analogue output.

    The Prism is a complex piece of kit and, in working order, is probably
    worth as much as a small secondhand car, so I approached it with some trepidation. There was no service data available anywhere, not even a
    circuit diagram, so I had to deduce what I could from the board layout.
    The tracks were almost invisible and there may have been multiple layers
    to the board - it wasn't obvious.

    Working from the chip pinouts, I established that there was a large DC
    offset on the Right balanced XLR output connector. It was symmetrical
    about earth, so it probably originated before the balanced output stage.
    There were four stereo D/A converters on the board, they appeared to be arranged with two chips (four channels) to the Right and two chips
    (another four channels) to the Left. One of the Right channel outputs
    was clipping hard against the rails.

    Looking at the data sheet for the Philips TDA1574 D/A converter chip, I discovered that there is an op-amp built-in for each analogue output,
    with its gain set by an external resistor. Philips suggest a value of
    13k for this resistor as the op-amp forms part of a filter. On the
    board I found the relevant resistor ...and it was open-circuit!

    Changing the resistor was a bit fiddly but the equipment is now working properly again. A failed resistor is a rarity these days, so this was
    quite a surprise (and a big relief in view of the value of the
    equipment).

    The question arises: "Why go to all the trouble of putting the outputs
    of four D/A converters in parallel?" The answer appears to be that
    Prism achieved an incredibly low noise figure by this method. Every
    time you parallel a pair of signals the coherent signal increases by 6dB
    but the noise (which is not coherent) only increases by 3dB. Every
    doubling produces a 3dB improvement in the signal-to-noise ratio, so
    Prism gained a 6dB advantage.

    I don't know whether they also staggered the clock pulses to increase
    the frequency of the clock ripple on the outputs (to give better
    filtering), but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From dplatt@dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt) to sci.electronics.repair on Fri Jul 11 16:03:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.repair

    In article <1rfbd8b.1v7wb2ln5mtkiN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Looking at the data sheet for the Philips TDA1574 D/A converter chip, I >discovered that there is an op-amp built-in for each analogue output,
    with its gain set by an external resistor. Philips suggest a value of
    13k for this resistor as the op-amp forms part of a filter. On the
    board I found the relevant resistor ...and it was open-circuit!

    Changing the resistor was a bit fiddly but the equipment is now working >properly again. A failed resistor is a rarity these days, so this was
    quite a surprise (and a big relief in view of the value of the
    equipment).

    Nice catch! It's really fun to be able to repair and recover an expensive piece of kit with what amounts to a zero-parts-cost repair. Diagnosis and labor are the big costs here, of course.

    Or, to quote from the Congress of Wonders:

    Captain Quirk: "OK, Smock, what's the situation with the computeer?"
    Mr. Smock: "Captain, it's at least $57,000,000 worth of damage."
    Captain Quirk: "$57,000,000?!? AARGH!"
    Mr. Smock: "Well, it's actually only one tube which costs 15 cents,
    but the service charge is enormous out here in space... especially
    considering that we're half a billion miles off course."

    The question arises: "Why go to all the trouble of putting the outputs
    of four D/A converters in parallel?" The answer appears to be that
    Prism achieved an incredibly low noise figure by this method. Every
    time you parallel a pair of signals the coherent signal increases by 6dB
    but the noise (which is not coherent) only increases by 3dB. Every
    doubling produces a 3dB improvement in the signal-to-noise ratio, so
    Prism gained a 6dB advantage.

    I believe it also can also lower the distortion by a similar amount.
    Many of the TDA1xxx DACs are of an R-2R ladder design, and variations
    in the matching of the on-chip resistors result in some amount of
    nonlinearity in the digital-to-analog-current function, hence
    distortion. The mismatches are slightly different in every chip, and apparently there's enough cancellation between them when run in
    parallel to make it worthwhile.

    There are a number of audiophile-DIY projects out there, which parallel
    as many as 8 of these R-2R DAC chips to gain this benefit. The ones
    I've seen don't seem to have any clock-shifting circuitry - they drive
    all of the latch inputs in parallel.

    The TDA1574 seems to be an FM-tuner IF chip, not a DAC? Typo in the
    chip number? The TDA1547 is a DAC, but it's a single-bit converter
    rather than an R-2R ladder... one would get the noise-reduction benefit
    by running several in parallel, but since this sort of DAC doesn't have
    an R-2R ladder inside there would be no resistor mismatching to conquer.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2