• another wasted attenuator

    From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Mon Aug 25 19:02:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design



    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

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  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Tue Aug 26 14:39:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 26/08/2025 12:02 pm, john larkin wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    What's your proposed alternative?

    Your problem is that you want your attentuators to operate at power
    levels they weren't designed to handle. A short, very high current pulse delivers a moderate amount of energy in a very short time, which is a spectacular amount of power. The limited area that has to handle it gets
    blown away.

    Laser trimming exploit a similar process to blow away limited areas of resistive material. The laser pulse is brief, so all the energy is concentrated in the area under the beam, and evaporates the surface of
    the target area, without getting the substrate hot enough to damage it.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


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  • From Jan Panteltje@alien@comet.invalid to sci.electronics.design on Tue Aug 26 08:17:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 26/08/2025 12:02 pm, john larkin wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    What's your proposed alternative?

    Your problem is that you want your attentuators to operate at power
    levels they weren't designed to handle. A short, very high current pulse >delivers a moderate amount of energy in a very short time, which is a >spectacular amount of power. The limited area that has to handle it gets >blown away.

    Laser trimming exploit a similar process to blow away limited areas of >resistive material. The laser pulse is brief, so all the energy is >concentrated in the area under the beam, and evaporates the surface of
    the target area, without getting the substrate hot enough to damage it.

    Somehow it reminds me of school days long ago where somebody made a light dimmer
    by decapitating a fluorescent tube and filling it with a salty water solution. Lower a piece of metal in it to control the light / current.
    Variable resister.
    Use it together with a small fixed resistor in series for output.
    Now HUGE pulses will dissipate in the water, no damage.
    https://canonbase.eu/wiki/Making_a_Salt_Water_Dimmer

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Tue Aug 26 23:47:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 26/08/2025 6:17 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On 26/08/2025 12:02 pm, john larkin wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    What's your proposed alternative?

    Your problem is that you want your attentuators to operate at power
    levels they weren't designed to handle. A short, very high current pulse
    delivers a moderate amount of energy in a very short time, which is a
    spectacular amount of power. The limited area that has to handle it gets
    blown away.

    Laser trimming exploit a similar process to blow away limited areas of
    resistive material. The laser pulse is brief, so all the energy is
    concentrated in the area under the beam, and evaporates the surface of
    the target area, without getting the substrate hot enough to damage it.

    Somehow it reminds me of school days long ago where somebody made a light dimmer
    by decapitating a fluorescent tube and filling it with a salty water solution.
    Lower a piece of metal in it to control the light / current.
    Variable resister.
    Use it together with a small fixed resistor in series for output.
    Now HUGE pulses will dissipate in the water, no damage.
    https://canonbase.eu/wiki/Making_a_Salt_Water_Dimmer

    The risk with that is that you put enough power into the water to
    produce a lot of steam in a very small volume, you might create a
    supersonic shock wave. If it blows the glass tube apart, the shards
    could be dangerous.

    There are the huge pulses you can imagine, and the risk of even larger
    pulses which you have failed to imagine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lasse Langwadt@llc@fonz.dk to sci.electronics.design on Tue Aug 26 18:16:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 8/26/25 04:02, john larkin wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.



    how is it not a pi?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cursitor Doom@cd6699@notformail.com to sci.electronics.design on Sat Aug 30 00:32:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:



    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality.
    Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's
    plenty for testing purposes.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Fri Aug 29 16:47:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality.
    Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's
    plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt
    pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding
    next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cursitor Doom@cd6699@notformail.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 10:47:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality.
    Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt
    pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding
    next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges?
    Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 08:11:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality. >>>Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>>plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt >>pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding
    next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges?
    Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    We want to be able to measure, say, 1 ns rise times accurately and
    make pretty pictures of our lovely pulses without the atten adding
    ringing. Realistically, 2 GHz would be OK.

    6 GHz attenuators, like the VAT series, are cheap. But they don't
    survive 600 volt 100ns pulses. And being thick-film, they have rotten
    voltage coefficients so are inaccurate in measuring voltage.

    Here's the guts of a VAT-20.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jsk5os0hurourqd60myv0/VAT-20.JPG?rlkey=bh6idhj33xfe98sdmtgumbfri&raw=1

    The gold dot in the center is interesting.

    Thickfilms are (literally) flakey enough, and then the laser trimming
    makes them much worse. If we do our own attens, they will have to be
    untrimmed thin films.

    The atten I have in mind would be an astounding numerical problem to
    design. I'll use an intern.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cursitor Doom@cd6699@notformail.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 18:00:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 08:11:12 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality. >>>>Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the >>>>ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>>>plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt >>>pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding >>>next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges? >>Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    We want to be able to measure, say, 1 ns rise times accurately and
    make pretty pictures of our lovely pulses without the atten adding
    ringing. Realistically, 2 GHz would be OK.

    Well that should bring the price down somewhat anyway.

    6 GHz attenuators, like the VAT series, are cheap. But they don't
    survive 600 volt 100ns pulses. And being thick-film, they have rotten
    voltage coefficients so are inaccurate in measuring voltage.

    Here's the guts of a VAT-20.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jsk5os0hurourqd60myv0/VAT-20.JPG?rlkey=bh6idhj33xfe98sdmtgumbfri&raw=1

    The gold dot in the center is interesting.

    Yeah, I've no idea what that might be for (if anything). At any rate,
    the internals of that one look much better manufactured than the first
    pix you posted on this topic.

    Thickfilms are (literally) flakey enough, and then the laser trimming
    makes them much worse. If we do our own attens, they will have to be >untrimmed thin films.

    The atten I have in mind would be an astounding numerical problem to
    design. I'll use an intern.

    They become a serious PITA as you go higher in frequency and power. I
    wish you the best of British luck! Please keep us informed how
    progress goes. I suspect it might prove a bit too challenging for the
    average intern, though.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From John R Walliker@jrwalliker@gmail.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 18:40:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 31/08/2025 16:11, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:



    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality.
    Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>>> plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt
    pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding
    next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges?
    Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    We want to be able to measure, say, 1 ns rise times accurately and
    make pretty pictures of our lovely pulses without the atten adding
    ringing. Realistically, 2 GHz would be OK.

    6 GHz attenuators, like the VAT series, are cheap. But they don't
    survive 600 volt 100ns pulses. And being thick-film, they have rotten
    voltage coefficients so are inaccurate in measuring voltage.

    Here's the guts of a VAT-20.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jsk5os0hurourqd60myv0/VAT-20.JPG?rlkey=bh6idhj33xfe98sdmtgumbfri&raw=1

    The gold dot in the center is interesting.

    Thickfilms are (literally) flakey enough, and then the laser trimming
    makes them much worse. If we do our own attens, they will have to be untrimmed thin films.

    The atten I have in mind would be an astounding numerical problem to
    design. I'll use an intern.

    The gold dot might be a manufacturing test point.

    Could you use a coaxial transmission line transformer to reduce the
    voltage before a more conventional attenuator?

    John


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 11:08:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 18:40:35 +0100, John R Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 31/08/2025 16:11, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>> wrote:



    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality.
    Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the
    ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>>>> plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt >>>> pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding
    next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges?
    Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    We want to be able to measure, say, 1 ns rise times accurately and
    make pretty pictures of our lovely pulses without the atten adding
    ringing. Realistically, 2 GHz would be OK.

    6 GHz attenuators, like the VAT series, are cheap. But they don't
    survive 600 volt 100ns pulses. And being thick-film, they have rotten
    voltage coefficients so are inaccurate in measuring voltage.

    Here's the guts of a VAT-20.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jsk5os0hurourqd60myv0/VAT-20.JPG?rlkey=bh6idhj33xfe98sdmtgumbfri&raw=1

    The gold dot in the center is interesting.

    Thickfilms are (literally) flakey enough, and then the laser trimming
    makes them much worse. If we do our own attens, they will have to be
    untrimmed thin films.

    The atten I have in mind would be an astounding numerical problem to
    design. I'll use an intern.

    The gold dot might be a manufacturing test point.

    I suspect so. It might make the trimming much easier.


    Could you use a coaxial transmission line transformer to reduce the
    voltage before a more conventional attenuator?

    John


    I guess, if we could trust it. That would be another whole project.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From john larkin@jl@glen--canyon.com to sci.electronics.design on Sun Aug 31 11:11:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 18:00:57 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 08:11:12 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom >>>><cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>wrote:


    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/lv5cuqq2zav9r2ijlx6mr/Ex_20w_1.jpg?rlkey=ui15baw9lylvzfsscjen5szvq&raw=1
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/64du6lv1hpgyafg0rws2l/Ex_20w_2.jpg?rlkey=vouuaqmqdj68im6jp1fclnr27&raw=1


    That's not a pi or a tee, but just two blobs of stuff.

    Laser trimming is evil.

    6Ghz/10W? Seems rather optimistic given the construction quality. >>>>>Chinese, I presume? Why do you need 10W attenuators anyway? All the >>>>>ones I use for RF testing won't take more than +10 dbm and even that's >>>>>plenty for testing purposes.

    We're making a high voltage pulse generator. It's making fast 650 volt >>>>pulses now, and we expect 1KV when we get our new transformer winding >>>>next week.

    Even at low avearge power, it eats attenuators. We may have to make
    our own.

    I can buy suitable attens, for $1500 to $5K each.

    So the reason you need 6Ghz BW is just to preserve those fast edges? >>>Because obviously it's that high BW that's making these things
    expensive. Esp high BW combined with high power.

    We want to be able to measure, say, 1 ns rise times accurately and
    make pretty pictures of our lovely pulses without the atten adding
    ringing. Realistically, 2 GHz would be OK.

    Well that should bring the price down somewhat anyway.

    6 GHz attenuators, like the VAT series, are cheap. But they don't
    survive 600 volt 100ns pulses. And being thick-film, they have rotten >>voltage coefficients so are inaccurate in measuring voltage.

    Here's the guts of a VAT-20.
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jsk5os0hurourqd60myv0/VAT-20.JPG?rlkey=bh6idhj33xfe98sdmtgumbfri&raw=1

    The gold dot in the center is interesting.

    Yeah, I've no idea what that might be for (if anything). At any rate,
    the internals of that one look much better manufactured than the first
    pix you posted on this topic.

    Thickfilms are (literally) flakey enough, and then the laser trimming
    makes them much worse. If we do our own attens, they will have to be >>untrimmed thin films.

    The atten I have in mind would be an astounding numerical problem to >>design. I'll use an intern.

    They become a serious PITA as you go higher in frequency and power. I
    wish you the best of British luck! Please keep us informed how
    progress goes. I suspect it might prove a bit too challenging for the
    average intern, though.

    I have a kid who is nothing like average. But he goes back to school
    in two weeks. We're discouraging him from doing that.

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  • From Bill Sloman@bill.sloman@ieee.org to sci.electronics.design on Mon Sep 1 16:24:30 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.electronics.design

    On 1/09/2025 4:08 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 18:40:35 +0100, John R Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 31/08/2025 16:11, john larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 10:47:03 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 16:47:52 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 00:32:11 +0100, Cursitor Doom
    <cd6699@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2025 19:02:59 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    <snip>

    I guess, if we could trust it. That would be another whole project.

    Transmission line transformers are remarkably predictable and
    consistent. They don't dissipate much power, so the termination might
    still be problem, but you might be able to split the signal on the way down.

    Setting them up to do step-down is tricky. You can't fiddle with the
    number of turns, but rather use several transformers in series to get
    whole number reduction ratios.

    Matick R.E. "Tranmission line pulse transformers - theory and
    applictions" Proc.IEEE. 56 pages 47-62 (1968)

    spells it out in some detail. Getting down from 1kV might take a few stages.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


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