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Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Even PP3s
have been conspicuous by their near-absence in the past few months.
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[...]
Even PP3s
have been conspicuous by their near-absence in the past few months.
There doesn't seem to ba a shortage of them but the prices have shot up.
It is still possible to buy something as specialised as a 3R12 on eBay
at a sensible price - but it is decades since I last saw one of those in
the shops.
On 1/10/2025 7:16 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
The only time I've gotten interested in primary dry batteries was when
we put in a bunch of smoke alarms which ran off PP3 cells.
Alkaline batteries lasted about a year, then the smoke alarm would start >squealing.
I realised that I could buy lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3 >format which wouldn't need to be replaced for about a decade. They were
more expensive, and I had to buy them from Farnell (now element-14), but
it struck me as worth it.
There's brand name - Ultralife - that plays on that.
When we moved back to Australia, the Australian branch of element-14
only sold them in bigger packs, and I was thinking of giving most of a
pack to my relatives at Christmas, but my wife declared it to be too >extravagant - as in showing off.
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >account of their weight!
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:25:35 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 1/10/2025 7:16 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
The only time I've gotten interested in primary dry batteries was when
we put in a bunch of smoke alarms which ran off PP3 cells.
Alkaline batteries lasted about a year, then the smoke alarm would start
squealing.
I realised that I could buy lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3
format which wouldn't need to be replaced for about a decade. They were
more expensive, and I had to buy them from Farnell (now element-14), but
it struck me as worth it.
There's brand name - Ultralife - that plays on that.
When we moved back to Australia, the Australian branch of element-14
only sold them in bigger packs, and I was thinking of giving most of a
pack to my relatives at Christmas, but my wife declared it to be too
extravagant - as in showing off.
The smoke detectors sold here in California are 10-year lithium
battery powered with CO detectors, by law I think.
That makes sense; the CO detectors don't last 10 years anyhow.
One of our plugin CO detectors died this morning around 2AM and
screeched really loud.
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on account of their weight!
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:fhfrdkdn0lkc8t1aqj0p6acqc428jkpno3@4ax.com...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R." >>><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >>>>>> for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >>>>>> completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Here we are
https://www.google.com/search?q=90V+radio+battery&udm=2
Never seen one myself but my parents would have.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
Long ago, my big brother tested one of those the way you test 9-volts, i.e. by touching it to his tongue.
Only once.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:fhfrdkdn0lkc8t1aqj0p6acqc428jkpno3@4ax.com...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >>>>>> for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >>>>>> completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with
reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to
run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at
all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Here we are
https://www.google.com/search?q=90V+radio+battery&udm=2
Never seen one myself but my parents would have.
On 2/10/2025 2:11 am, john larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:25:35 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 1/10/2025 7:16 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
The only time I've gotten interested in primary dry batteries was when
we put in a bunch of smoke alarms which ran off PP3 cells.
Alkaline batteries lasted about a year, then the smoke alarm would start >>> squealing.
I realised that I could buy lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3
format which wouldn't need to be replaced for about a decade. They were
more expensive, and I had to buy them from Farnell (now element-14), but >>> it struck me as worth it.
There's brand name - Ultralife - that plays on that.
When we moved back to Australia, the Australian branch of element-14
only sold them in bigger packs, and I was thinking of giving most of a
pack to my relatives at Christmas, but my wife declared it to be too
extravagant - as in showing off.
The smoke detectors sold here in California are 10-year lithium
battery powered with CO detectors, by law I think.
My experience with smoke alarms goes back about forty years. I bought
the lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3 format in England and
the Netherlands. When did California write a requirement for long-life lithium cells into law?
That makes sense; the CO detectors don't last 10 years anyhow.
Our smoke alarms detected smoke and relied on some radioactive material exciting a detector diode - the smoke blocked the emitted particles.
One of our plugin CO detectors died this morning around 2AM and
screeched really loud.
If it could screech it wasn't really dead - merely dying.
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less
than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells >rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly. >That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space.
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies >intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories
which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from >Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well >enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be >looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or >making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good >for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where >lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've
only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
On 02/10/2025 12:28, Bill Sloman wrote:
On 2/10/2025 2:11 am, john larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 01:25:35 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 1/10/2025 7:16 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary'-a dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
The only time I've gotten interested in primary dry batteries was when >>>> we put in a bunch of smoke alarms which ran off PP3 cells.
Alkaline batteries lasted about a year, then the smoke alarm would
start
squealing.
I realised that I could buy lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3 >>>> format which wouldn't need to be replaced for about a decade. They were >>>> more expensive, and I had to buy them from Farnell (now element-14),
but
it struck me as worth it.
There's brand name - Ultralife - that plays on that.
When we moved back to Australia, the Australian branch of element-14
only sold them in bigger packs, and I was thinking of giving most of a >>>> pack to my relatives at Christmas, but my wife declared it to be too
extravagant - as in showing off.
The smoke detectors sold here in California are 10-year lithium
battery powered with CO detectors, by law I think.
My experience with smoke alarms goes back about forty years. I bought
the lithium iron phosphate batteries in the PP3 format in England and
the Netherlands. When did California write a requirement for long-life
lithium cells into law?
That makes sense; the CO detectors don't last 10 years anyhow.
Our smoke alarms detected smoke and relied on some radioactive material
exciting a detector diode - the smoke blocked the emitted particles.
One of our plugin CO detectors died this morning around 2AM and
screeched really loud.
If it could screech it wasn't really dead - merely dying.
Pedant mode on...
The CO /detector/ could have died, and its being dead was picked up by
the electronic circuit which then lets you know by the screech that the detector no longer worked.
Pedant mode off...
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
^^^^^^^^^^ <--- expensive!!!There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder. My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 22:28:49 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:fhfrdkdn0lkc8t1aqj0p6acqc428jkpno3@4ax.com...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 23:54:10 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-01 15:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 10:16:53 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >>>>>>> for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >>>>>>> completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I don't use PP9s any more as they've become far too expensive with >>>>>> reduced production. In any case, my Hacker radio gobbled the damn
things up two at a time far too quickly, so I've changed it over to >>>>>> run from the mains instead. Pretty soon they won't be available at >>>>>> all.
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>> account of their weight!
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Here we are
https://www.google.com/search?q=90V+radio+battery&udm=2
Never seen one myself but my parents would have.
That takes me back. Anyone remember the old tube testers you'd find at
drug stores back in the day? They'd test your tubes for you if you
suspected they were faulty.
God I'm so old!
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My >introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was >assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously >expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder. >My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >> typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to >> be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My >>introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was >>assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder. >>My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My >>introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was >>assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder. >>My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >>> typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to >>> be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less
than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells >> rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly. >> That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space.
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies
intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories
which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from
Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well >> enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be
looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or
making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good >> for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where
lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've
only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
franchises. No signs of supply chain disturbances,lately. Alcaline
PP9s for handheld meters and smoke detectors still demand them
annually - though there's a drift towards multiple AA or AAAs,
which have nimh rechargeable equivalents.
Vanity/seasonal lighting, remote controls/doorbells keyfobs/watches
the primary consumer uses of cylindrical formats.
Single 3V9 Li-Ion w 5V USB charging interface is pretty much the
cheapest solution now,with simple output converters for 9, 6, 5V pre-installed. Where physically practical, I'll retrofit.
I hate primsry batteries, but am learning to live with rechargeables.
All from China.
RL
On 02/10/2025 15:49, legg wrote:
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less >>> than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells
rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly.
That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space.
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies >>> intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories
which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from
Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well >>> enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be
looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or
making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good >>> for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where >>> lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've >>> only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
A long time ago I knew a battery manufacturing plant designer who was >familiar with the operations of most of the manufacturers world-wide.
His advice was that Panasonic/Matsushita had better quality than any of
the others. He was specifically commenting on rechargeables, but
the quality culture was probably the same for primary cells.
John
On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 16:19:22 +0100, John R Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/10/2025 15:49, legg wrote:
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less >>>> than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells
rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly.
That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space. >>>>
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies >>>> intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories >>>> which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from
Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well >>>> enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be >>>> looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or
making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good >>>> for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where >>>> lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've >>>> only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
A long time ago I knew a battery manufacturing plant designer who was >>familiar with the operations of most of the manufacturers world-wide.
His advice was that Panasonic/Matsushita had better quality than any of
the others. He was specifically commenting on rechargeables, but
the quality culture was probably the same for primary cells.
John
Open up a Panasonic PP9 alcaline, and you'll see 6 individual AAAA
cells, spot-welded, inside the housing. My gob was suitably smacked,
the first time I saw this.
Carbon PP9s are the usual stacked mud.
RL
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a >>>dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My >>>introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was >>>assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
The next step was to get a Wen soldering gun. Do people still use
soldering guns?
Metcals are wonderful.
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >>>> typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to >>>> be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up
later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test
or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the
neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 16:19:22 +0100, John R Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/10/2025 15:49, legg wrote:
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less >>>> than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells
rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly.
That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space. >>>>
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies >>>> intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories >>>> which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from
Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well >>>> enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be >>>> looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or
making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good >>>> for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where >>>> lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've >>>> only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
A long time ago I knew a battery manufacturing plant designer who was
familiar with the operations of most of the manufacturers world-wide.
His advice was that Panasonic/Matsushita had better quality than any of
the others. He was specifically commenting on rechargeables, but
the quality culture was probably the same for primary cells.
John
Open up a Panasonic PP9 alcaline, and you'll see 6 individual AAAA
cells, spot-welded, inside the housing. My gob was suitably smacked,
the first time I saw this.
Carbon PP9s are the usual stacked mud.
RL
On 10/3/25 9:29 AM, legg wrote:
On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 16:19:22 +0100, John R Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/10/2025 15:49, legg wrote:
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >>>>>> for'primary'-a dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >>>>>> completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries >>>>> less
than they used to?-a A lot of new stuff is coming with internal
lithium cells
rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as >>>>> quickly.
That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space. >>>>>
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding
companies
intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having
factories
which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from >>>>> Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which
work well
enough.-a If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be >>>>> looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral
USB ports or
making a lithium pack.-a The only place primary cells are still
really good
for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, >>>>> where
lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. >>>>> I've
only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
A long time ago I knew a battery manufacturing plant designer who was
familiar with the operations of most of the manufacturers world-wide.
His advice was that Panasonic/Matsushita had better quality than any of
the others.-a He was specifically commenting on rechargeables, but
the quality culture was probably the same for primary cells.
John
Open up a Panasonic PP9 alcaline, and you'll see 6 individual AAAA
cells, spot-welded, inside the housing. My gob was suitably smacked,
the first time I saw this.
Carbon PP9s are the usual stacked mud.
RL
A PP9 is not made that way - you mean a PP3 (the much smaller one), a
PP9 is app 80 x 65 x 52mm.
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to be careful about max/min voltages.
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
On 10/3/25 9:29 AM, legg wrote:
On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 16:19:22 +0100, John R Walliker
<jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:
On 02/10/2025 15:49, legg wrote:
On 01 Oct 2025 13:08:17 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain >>>>>> for'primary' dry batteries?
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared >>>>>> completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
I have no information, but maybe people are using primary batteries less >>>>> than they used to? A lot of new stuff is coming with internal lithium cells
rechargeable via USB, so they're not going through primary cells as quickly.
That means reduced demand, reduced sales volumes and less shelf space. >>>>>
Meanwhile the 'brands' are now owned by private equity holding companies >>>>> intent on milking them for licensing fees, rather than having factories >>>>> which actually make their own batteries.
I'm tending to buy secondary brand cells such as GP and Procell (from >>>>> Farnell/CPC, whenever I'm next putting in an order anyway) which work well
enough. If I had anything that went through a lot of batteries I'd be >>>>> looking at lithium ion replacements (either the AAs with integral USB ports or
making a lithium pack. The only place primary cells are still really good
for is very low drain applications run off a coin cell or whatever, where >>>>> lithium ion is not a good replacement.
I understand Amazon and Ikea and similar have own brand batteries. I've >>>>> only used Ikea CR2032s and those have been fine.
Theo
Most common 'cheap' brand here is Panasonic - through 'Dollar' store
A long time ago I knew a battery manufacturing plant designer who was
familiar with the operations of most of the manufacturers world-wide.
His advice was that Panasonic/Matsushita had better quality than any of
the others. He was specifically commenting on rechargeables, but
the quality culture was probably the same for primary cells.
John
Open up a Panasonic PP9 alcaline, and you'll see 6 individual AAAA
cells, spot-welded, inside the housing. My gob was suitably smacked,
the first time I saw this.
Carbon PP9s are the usual stacked mud.
RL
A PP9 is not made that way - you mean a PP3 (the much smaller one), a
PP9 is app 80 x 65 x 52mm.
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >>> typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to >>> be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
In those early years main battery used by me was a 4.5 V one, 3LR12 model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_sizes
In some stuff, like my outside weather sensor that needs 2 1.5V AAA,
I use some Chinese liion in one place,
and a 'short circuit' AAA battery in the other place.
If all fails, and it gets dark I have a flashlight with a handle you can turn.
You could likely use you bike lights too, put the bike on a stand
and start Tour de France.
And wind, have not done much with that but measuring it, yet...
Oh, forgot the nuclear stuff: https://panteltje.nl/pub/tritium_light_all_img_3242.jpg
beep!
Learn something every day.
On 01/10/2025 10:16, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary'-a dry batteries?
I don't see any problems.
I generally buy mine on Amazon (or Rapid) depending on who is cheaper
and in 40x blocks. Where I can I use rechargeables but some LCD devices won't work at the lower terminal voltage of NiMH/NiCad.
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Aldi & Lidl still have most sorts available. They sometimes have pretty
good rechargeables (better value when they are discounted at end of
line). Poundland often has rubbish grade Kodak AA batteries at silly
prices which are good enough for some near throw away applications.
I suggest you try a larger supermarket. The only battery I think are discontinued are the 45v & ~90v ones intended for portable valve radios.
My preference is for Panasonic or Amazon's own brand at the moment.
I suspect the cheap availability online has crippled sales through supermarket. They are a handy make weight for reaching free delivery on smaller orders (to any of Amazon, Rapid or RS).
I avoid Duracell like the plague now - they are the only batteries that
have ever leaked in my gear and done damage.
On 04/10/2025 14:10, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/10/2025 10:16, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Does anyone know what is going on in th UK e domestic supply chain
for'primary'-a dry batteries?
I don't see any problems.
I generally buy mine on Amazon (or Rapid) depending on who is cheaper
and in 40x blocks. Where I can I use rechargeables but some LCD
devices won't work at the lower terminal voltage of NiMH/NiCad.
The budget supermarket own-brand batteries seem to have disappeared
completely, the branded types havenearly doubled in price and
less-popular types, such as PP9 are no longer manufactured.
Aldi & Lidl still have most sorts available. They sometimes have
pretty good rechargeables (better value when they are discounted at
end of line). Poundland often has rubbish grade Kodak AA batteries at
silly prices which are good enough for some near throw away applications.
I suggest you try a larger supermarket. The only battery I think are
discontinued are the 45v & ~90v ones intended for portable valve radios.
My preference is for Panasonic or Amazon's own brand at the moment.
I suspect the cheap availability online has crippled sales through
supermarket. They are a handy make weight for reaching free delivery
on smaller orders (to any of Amazon, Rapid or RS).
I avoid Duracell like the plague now - they are the only batteries
that have ever leaked in my gear and done damage.
I also avoid Duracell alkaline manganese for the same reason.
Amazon do seem reasonable.
I recently bought a couple of boxes of Amazon Basics 2400mAh NiMH
cells and tested one box because I wanted to make up a set of 6
closely matched cells to use in a resistance tester.-a Here are the results: 2353, 2359, 2373, 2385, 2386, 2392, 2402, 2403, 2404, 2407, 2412, 2427
These results were measured using the grading function of an Xtar VC4SL charger.
John
"Jan Panteltje" <alien@comet.invalid> wrote in message news:10bnpoa$1g6oa$1@dont-email.me...
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a >>>> typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to >>>> be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
I'd have done something like that when I was 8.
I might also have used
https://www.google.com/search?q=connector+strip&udm=2
For anything more complex I'd have used >https://www.google.com/search?q=veroboard&udm=2
With one of these
https://www.google.com/search?q=vero+cutter&udm=2
And later when I needed a ground plane or lots of chips >https://www.google.com/search?q=speedwire+prototype&udm=2
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio
outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>>>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up
later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test
or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the
neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all in it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>>>>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up
later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test
or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the
neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all in it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many
decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I
ripped that out to make more freezer room.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and
our rich gourmet airhead governor.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
How much power can you get from "a small windmill" ? Average 50 watts?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery >>>>>>>> which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a >>>>>> better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up
later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test
or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the
neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many
decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I
ripped that out to make more freezer room.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and
our rich gourmet airhead governor.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 07:52:37 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
wrote:
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
How much power can you get from "a small windmill" ? Average 50 watts?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
Trying to punish the Russians with sanctions has punished the Germans
a damn sight more! I don't think their government gives a damn if the
people there freeze to death over the winter.
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios >>>>>>>> about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on >>>>>>>> account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>>>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than >>>>>>one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments >>>>>>- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many
decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>ripped that out to make more freezer room.
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and
our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that Ican use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling causing damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries.
He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
Am 05.10.25 um 18:53 schrieb Cursitor Doom:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 07:52:37 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
wrote:
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
How much power can you get from "a small windmill" ? Average 50 watts?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
Trying to punish the Russians with sanctions has punished the Germans
a damn sight more! I don't think their government gives a damn if the
people there freeze to death over the winter.
Thanks for the compassion, but in this year's first 3 quarters, abt.
2/3 of our electricity came from renewables, and the gaz caverns are
nearly full. I'm pretty sure that I won't freeze to death.
No need to rely on Putler and his orange fan boi.
Gerhard
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder. My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
The next step was to get a Wen soldering gun. Do people still use
soldering guns?
Metcals are wonderful.
John Larkin--
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form >>>>>>>> factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable:
https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>>>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt. >>>>Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many
decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>ripped that out to make more freezer room.
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and
our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks
of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet. >>
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries. >>He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the
Marshall Plan. With interest.
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
I remember once (I might be 16) I was repairing a toy for a small kid, >soldering the motor cable or something. I had to leave the room to fetch >something. I said sternly "don't touch it, it burns!". I came back, he
was not there (which was strange, he was fascinated by the job), so I >continued and finished it. Minutes later comes his grandmother asking if
I had some very hot thing, his grandson was hurt.
We figured out he had grabbed the metal part. He understood the tip was
hot, but he thought the metal would be fine. He was adamant he had not >grabbed the tip. Why did not he grab it by the wood handle, as he had
seen me do, I do not know. I was not punished, but grumbled at. The poor
kid was crying in pain and shame.
The next step was to get a Wen soldering gun. Do people still use
soldering guns?
The type that heat a wire loop in seconds, via a large current? Not me.
I avoid Duracell like the plague now - they are the only batteries that
have ever leaked in my gear and done damage.
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 12:29:59 -0400, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
Open up a Panasonic PP9 alcaline, and you'll see 6 individual AAAA
cells, spot-welded, inside the housing. My gob was suitably smacked,
the first time I saw this.
Carbon PP9s are the usual stacked mud.
RL
What were you expecting to see?
I do not use the sponge, I clean tips with just some Tempco handkerchiefs. Got some new tips years ago. Very intensively used.. (But then I still use 60/40 :-)) At work we used Weller soldering irons.. some failed, lots of
new tips needed all the time, I think wet sponges kill the tips.
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
[...]
I do not use the sponge, I clean tips with just some Tempco handkerchiefs. >> Got some new tips years ago. Very intensively used.. (But then I still use >> 60/40 :-)) At work we used Weller soldering irons.. some failed, lots of
new tips needed all the time, I think wet sponges kill the tips.
I use a suede shoe brush on my Weller, it wokrs very well. 'Savbit'
solder, which was saturated with copper also helped prevent erosion of
the bit. The most recent reel of 'Savbit' I bought from Farnell seemed
to be causing erosion, so I had it tested by a chemist friend - it
contained no copper at all.
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a
dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many >>>>decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>ripped that out to make more freezer room.On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK >>>>>>>>>> typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either >>>>>>>>>> one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price >>>>>>>>of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails, >>>>>>>plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt. >>>>>Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK. >>>>
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut
off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries. >>>He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the >>Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for other places in Europe, and these days living standard in East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
You, genocide supporting criminals put yourself above the law by sanctioning the International Criminal Court.
Your f*cking nutcase leader is stealing our money and othyers and even his own peepholes with his tariffs.
And it was actually *Russia* who got hold of - and killed - Hitler,
You Ash was too busy fighting Japan in the Pacific.
You cannot pay back anything as you are a defunct fourth world (or is it fifth?) country with the US dollies losing half their value in the last 2.5 years versus gold.
Just babble like 'fusion power', IQ dropped to less than 2 digits, only lost wars so far, war crimes
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/03/treasury-department-trump-dollar-coin-00593368
all your Precedent tramp is worth.
Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine, warcrimes, lies, cheat and deceat!!!
All weapon export to run that taxpayer funded Criminal Military Industrial Disaster
Money as the onty value, as 'god', greed as prayer and religion.
Doomed to infinity,
As to your -24V supply circuit diagram, if it ever works it is because of some silly-con diode effect in that chip.
The missing ground path is forced that way.
So bull! It could just blow up at any load.
Have you never heard about transformers?
Anyways, the storm here has gone, was not even raining this morning, weather getting better.
On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 02:56:45 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a >>>>> dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
I tipped a hot iron off my bench and, in a graceful demonstration of
athletic reflexes, caught it mid-air. Once.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FJLHav813SSfCMErvA7IUEr9haLXU7phV8ZiBwEc4eGo.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D34cd285aabcce3af009350ea387c634f901bd8fa
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:30:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many >>>>>decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>>ripped that out to make more freezer room.On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt. >>>>>>Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK. >>>>>
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>>our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>>of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut >>>>>off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries. >>>>He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the >>>Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for other places in Europe, and these days living standard in East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Good point. We should have let the russians have all of Germany.
France too.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another
violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
[...]
I do not use the sponge, I clean tips with just some Tempco handkerchiefs. >> Got some new tips years ago. Very intensively used.. (But then I still use >> 60/40 :-)) At work we used Weller soldering irons.. some failed, lots of
new tips needed all the time, I think wet sponges kill the tips.
I use a suede shoe brush on my Weller, it wokrs very well. 'Savbit'
solder, which was saturated with copper also helped prevent erosion of
the bit. The most recent reel of 'Savbit' I bought from Farnell seemed
to be causing erosion, so I had it tested by a chemist friend - it
contained no copper at all.
Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
I avoid Duracell like the plague now - they are the only batteries that
have ever leaked in my gear and done damage.
My brother-in-law was the first person to import them and gave me two
sets of 6 x HP7 (U2) to test. I put one set into a portable tape
recorder and left the other set on a windowsill. Both sets were leaking >profusely after about 6 months.
On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 02:56:45 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a >>>>> dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
I tipped a hot iron off my bench and, in a graceful demonstration of
athletic reflexes, caught it mid-air. Once.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FJLHav813SSfCMErvA7IUEr9haLXU7phV8ZiBwEc4eGo.jpg%3Fauto%
3Dwebp%26s%3D34cd285aabcce3af009350ea387c634f901bd8fa
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:30:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many >>>>>decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>>ripped that out to make more freezer room.On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very >>>>>>>>>>> commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get >>>>>>>>>>> 18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt. >>>>>>Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit
all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK. >>>>>
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>>our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill.
Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>>of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that
Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut >>>>>off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling
causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from
Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries. >>>>He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the >>>Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for other places in Europe, and these days living standard in
East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Good point. We should have let the russians have all of Germany.
France too.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another
violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
You, genocide supporting criminals put yourself above the law by sanctioning the International Criminal Court.
Your f*cking nutcase leader is stealing our money and othyers and even his own peepholes with his tariffs.
And it was actually *Russia* who got hold of - and killed - Hitler,
He killed himself.
You Ash was too busy fighting Japan in the Pacific.
You cannot pay back anything as you are a defunct fourth world (or is it fifth?) country with the US dollies losing half their
value in the last 2.5 years versus gold.
Just babble like 'fusion power', IQ dropped to less than 2 digits, only lost wars so far, war crimes
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/03/treasury-department-trump-dollar-coin-00593368
all your Precedent tramp is worth.
Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine, warcrimes, lies, cheat and deceat!!!
All weapon export to run that taxpayer funded Criminal Military Industrial Disaster
Money as the onty value, as 'god', greed as prayer and religion.
Doomed to infinity,
As to your -24V supply circuit diagram, if it ever works it is because of some silly-con diode effect in that chip.
It's just a buck switcher with the output pins renamed.
I built it. It works fine. I do need to be careful about startup and
brownout cases, but that's always the case with switchers.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/15wrkq8kte9qfsj95h52u/X122_Oct_2.jpg?rlkey=mh504bitu1qxqi2njfstwre6q&raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w5g4vkoke17k8uxfg2dhj/B200_Neg21_1.jpg?rlkey=6kilhyf1o3rvve7n5lm14f17f&raw=1
It might be prudent to let the Pi cpu drive the enable pin, so we can
check everything else before we kick this on, last thing. An
optocoupler would be the easy way. Enable is relative to the -V
output!
The missing ground path is forced that way.
It's a common technique. TI has an appnote on this topology, with lots
of math.
So bull! It could just blow up at any load.
Have you never heard about transformers?
Show us how you would do it.
Anyways, the storm here has gone, was not even raining this morning, weather getting better.
We've actually had a little rain in the last month, maybe 0.1" total
or something wet like that. Even that is unusual this time of year. It >generally rains from about November to March. We're lucky if we can
ski in November.
On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 13:35:19 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
[...]
I do not use the sponge, I clean tips with just some Tempco handkerchiefs. >>> Got some new tips years ago. Very intensively used.. (But then I still use >>> 60/40 :-)) At work we used Weller soldering irons.. some failed, lots of >>> new tips needed all the time, I think wet sponges kill the tips.
I use a suede shoe brush on my Weller, it wokrs very well. 'Savbit' >>solder, which was saturated with copper also helped prevent erosion of
the bit. The most recent reel of 'Savbit' I bought from Farnell seemed
to be causing erosion, so I had it tested by a chemist friend - it >>contained no copper at all.
The soldering gun tips eroded fast.
My Metcal tips last about forever for some reason, and I use 63/37.
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
The next step was to get a Wen soldering gun. Do people still use
soldering guns?
The type that heat a wire loop in seconds, via a large current? Not me.
Inductive heating is nice too, cheap thing from ebay:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/inductive_heater_board_arrived_IMG_5187.JPG
Melting solder:
https://panteltje.nl/pub/crucible_with_molten_solder_IMG_5439.JPG
Heating up a Baco with home made coil::
https://panteltje.nl/pub/inductive_heating_current_spiral_coil_baco_IMG_5211.JPG
https://panteltje.nl/pub/inductive_heating_cheap_amp_meter_on_IMG_5214.JPG
I do not like solder guns either, do not have one, tried one once, not enough precision for little SMDs ?
Not sure what the huge current's induction does to what's next to where you solder?
On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 02:56:45 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it
being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a >>>>> dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was
assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering. >>>>> I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
I tipped a hot iron off my bench and, in a graceful demonstration of
athletic reflexes, caught it mid-air. Once.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FJLHav813SSfCMErvA7IUEr9haLXU7phV8ZiBwEc4eGo.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D34cd285aabcce3af009350ea387c634f901bd8fa
On 2025-10-06 16:40, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 6 Oct 2025 02:56:45 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-10-03 15:41, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 05:41:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
There was a 67 volt battery for tube portable radios. I recall it >>>>>>> being expensive and short-lived.
Memories. Our Family had something similar - a valve portable with a >>>>>> dual battery HV for valves (or tubes!) and LV for the heaters. My
introduction to "electronics" (at something like 11 years old) was >>>>>> assembling the mains PSU kit by dad bought 'cos the batteries were ridulously
expressive. It worked but I wouldn't want anyone examining the soldering.
I used a plumber's iron heated on the gas ring with plumbers flux and solder.
My uncle, a plumber, helped out :-)
Hey don't laugh, it got me interested in electronics.
I used a screwdriver heated in the coal fire in the livingroom.
In the fifties..
I had a huge old iron about the size of a baseball bat. One day I
dropped a giant blob of solder onto my bare foot.
Please don't say that! I'm still cringing in pain at the thought.
I tipped a hot iron off my bench and, in a graceful demonstration of
athletic reflexes, caught it mid-air. Once.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FJLHav813SSfCMErvA7IUEr9haLXU7phV8ZiBwEc4eGo.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D34cd285aabcce3af009350ea387c634f901bd8fa
Yes, I remember that photo. Just google "photo of a girl holding a
solder iron wrong", find hundreds of hits.
This one criticizes the original in 2016: ><https://makezine.com/article/maker-news/beautiful-woman-soldering-stock-photo-wrong/>
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:30:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many >>>>>>decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>>>ripped that out to make more freezer room.On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and >>>>>>>>>>could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg >>>>>>>>
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>>>later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>>>>or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too. >>>>>>>>> https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>>>neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt. >>>>>>>Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit
all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK. >>>>>>
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable.
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>>>our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill. >>>>>>>Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>>>of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that
Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this:
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
Depends how much the wind is blowing
'The answer my friends is blowin in the wind, .."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin%27_in_the_Wind
One solution is to put a lot of drugs next to your windmill, it will attract lots of people
and they will start blowing.
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut >>>>>>off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as ground started sinking because of the gas drilling
causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from
Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries. >>>>>He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the >>>>Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for other places in Europe, and these days living standard in
East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Good point. We should have let the russians have all of Germany.
France too.
France new prime minister just resigned after just a few weeks in power.
Many people want new elections, but president Macron does not.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another >>violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
Yea US dying so young
You, genocide supporting criminals put yourself above the law by sanctioning the International Criminal Court.
Your f*cking nutcase leader is stealing our money and othyers and even his own peepholes with his tariffs.
And it was actually *Russia* who got hold of - and killed - Hitler,
He killed himself.
What story to believe is hard.
You Ash was too busy fighting Japan in the Pacific.
You cannot pay back anything as you are a defunct fourth world (or is it fifth?) country with the US dollies losing half their
value in the last 2.5 years versus gold.
Just babble like 'fusion power', IQ dropped to less than 2 digits, only lost wars so far, war crimes
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/03/treasury-department-trump-dollar-coin-00593368
all your Precedent tramp is worth.
Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine, warcrimes, lies, cheat and deceat!!!
All weapon export to run that taxpayer funded Criminal Military Industrial Disaster
Money as the onty value, as 'god', greed as prayer and religion.
Doomed to infinity,
As to your -24V supply circuit diagram, if it ever works it is because of some silly-con diode effect in that chip.
It's just a buck switcher with the output pins renamed.
I built it. It works fine. I do need to be careful about startup and >>brownout cases, but that's always the case with switchers.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/15wrkq8kte9qfsj95h52u/X122_Oct_2.jpg?rlkey=mh504bitu1qxqi2njfstwre6q&raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w5g4vkoke17k8uxfg2dhj/B200_Neg21_1.jpg?rlkey=6kilhyf1o3rvve7n5lm14f17f&raw=1
It might be prudent to let the Pi cpu drive the enable pin, so we can
check everything else before we kick this on, last thing. An
optocoupler would be the easy way. Enable is relative to the -V
output!
The missing ground path is forced that way.
It's a common technique. TI has an appnote on this topology, with lots
of math.
New to me, would not want it that way.
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 18:07:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:30:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them.
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg >>>>>>>>>
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a >>>>>>>> 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>>>> later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test >>>>>>>>> or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>>>>>>>>>
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>>>> neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's >>>>>>>> freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit
all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt >>>>>>>> waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely
de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many
decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>>>> ripped that out to make more freezer room.
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable. >>>>>>
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white >>>>>>>> house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>>>> our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes >>>>>> many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I >>>>>>>> can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill. >>>>>>>> Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-)
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>>>> of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W >>>>>> solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that
Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most
frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V >>>>>> 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this: >>>>>> https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
Depends how much the wind is blowing
'The answer my friends is blowin in the wind, .."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin%27_in_the_Wind
One solution is to put a lot of drugs next to your windmill, it will
attract lots of people
and they will start blowing.
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut >>>>>>> off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as >>>>>> ground started sinking because of the gas drilling
causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown
shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from
Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries.
He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial
Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a >>>>>> huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the
Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for
other places in Europe, and these days living standard in
East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Good point. We should have let the russians have all of Germany.
France too.
France new prime minister just resigned after just a few weeks in power.
Many people want new elections, but president Macron does not.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another
violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
Yea US dying so young
You, genocide supporting criminals put yourself above the law by
sanctioning the International Criminal Court.
Your f*cking nutcase leader is stealing our money and othyers and even >>>> his own peepholes with his tariffs.
And it was actually *Russia* who got hold of - and killed - Hitler,
He killed himself.
What story to believe is hard.
You Ash was too busy fighting Japan in the Pacific.
You cannot pay back anything as you are a defunct fourth world (or is
it fifth?) country with the US dollies losing half their
value in the last 2.5 years versus gold.
Just babble like 'fusion power', IQ dropped to less than 2 digits,
only lost wars so far, war crimes
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/03/treasury-department-trump-dollar-coin-00593368
all your Precedent tramp is worth.
Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine, warcrimes, lies, cheat and deceat!!!
All weapon export to run that taxpayer funded Criminal Military Industrial Disaster
Money as the onty value, as 'god', greed as prayer and religion.
Doomed to infinity,
As to your -24V supply circuit diagram, if it ever works it is because >>>> of some silly-con diode effect in that chip.
It's just a buck switcher with the output pins renamed.
I built it. It works fine. I do need to be careful about startup and
brownout cases, but that's always the case with switchers.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/15wrkq8kte9qfsj95h52u/X122_Oct_2.jpg?rlkey=mh504bitu1qxqi2njfstwre6q&raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w5g4vkoke17k8uxfg2dhj/B200_Neg21_1.jpg?rlkey=6kilhyf1o3rvve7n5lm14f17f&raw=1
It might be prudent to let the Pi cpu drive the enable pin, so we can
check everything else before we kick this on, last thing. An
optocoupler would be the easy way. Enable is relative to the -V
output!
The missing ground path is forced that way.
It's a common technique. TI has an appnote on this topology, with lots
of math.
New to me, would not want it that way.
Lots of people make little potted 3-pin things that are drop-ins for a
7805 linear regulator. Some of their data sheets suggest using them
this way, to make -5 from a positive supply.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 18:07:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:30:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2025 17:58:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 18:31:36 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 06:16:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On 10/2/25 4:37 AM, Theo wrote:https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/circuit_haystack2.jpg >>>>>>>>>>
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 20:16:42 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I don't think I have ever seen a PP9, just the standard 9 volt battery
which apparently is "6LR61"
You can think of a PP9 as maybe 6x PP3s in parallel. They were very
commonly used in large portable VHF/MW/LW high quality domestic radios
about 50 or 60 years ago. Those radios had relatively high audio >>>>>>>>>>>>>> outputs and drank quite a bit of current, so these radios (in the UK
typically made by companies like Roberts or Hawker) would use either
one or two PP9s. The larger Hawkers would use them in series to get
18V supply. These kind of radios were more 'luggable' than portable on
account of their weight!
It's possible to buy (ebay etc) converters from 6x AAs to the PP9 form
factor. Given the energy density of an alkaline AA is a lot better than a
typical zinc-carbon (that the PP9 would typically use) that seems like a
better option to get decent runtime.
You could also make something with lithium cells (eg LFP) although need to
be careful about max/min voltages.
Theo
A carbon-zinc PP9 has about 4Ah capacity so is probably a bit more than
one made from 6 x alkaline AAs that are only 2-3Ah. Although the price
of PP9's these days means that AAs would be much cheaper to run and
could be rechargeable.
When I was a teenager PP9s were the main power supply for my experiments
- I would get through about one per year.
Many transistor radios in the UK at that time used them. >>>>>>>>>>>
Yikes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1
OK, but that was a link to this experiment, had to replace it by a >>>>>>>>> 12 V supply as the battery was almost empty:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
So teh circuit is saved is save
This sort of prototype can be documented and archived and fired up >>>>>>>>>> later if required. And handed off to someone else to temperature test
or whatever.
There are also 9V like that in my multimeters.
For AA and AAA I use 'Eneloops', zero selfdischarge, rechargable: >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.panasonic.com/global/energy/products/eneloop/en/lineup/eneloop.html
Liion and Lifepo4 all over the place here too.
I have a 12V 250Ah Lifepo4 battery pack for backup power if mains fails,
plus solar panels and charger, and 2 kW 12V to 230V AC converter too.
https://panteltje.nl/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
So, TV and fridge always works ;-)
Does your power fail often? For long?
No, last one about 2 hours a year or 2 ago.. time flies..
We lost power for a day or so, in the 1989 earthquake. All the >>>>>>>>>> neighbors had an ice cream exchange party, thinking it would all melt.
Yesterday I did some shopping, pizza, icecream, but the fridge's >>>>>>>>> freeze compartment was too much covered with ice to fit
all
in
it.
I had to somehow defrost it, but the pizzas I did not want to melt >>>>>>>>> waiting for that ice in the fridge to melt.
So I took my paint burner gun, from about half a meter the fride completely
de-frosted in less than 5 minutes!, all ice
melted.
Put the pizzas and icecream in it, switched the fridge back on, all OK.
Your fridge must be ancient. Ours have been frost-free for many >>>>>>>> decades. The Samsung is great. Well, except for the stupid icemaker; I >>>>>>>> ripped that out to make more freezer room.
Yes, it is decades old, but very nice, lots of space and reliable. >>>>>>>
But then with all war talk going on, and a mad-man in the white >>>>>>>>> house, better be prepared for a longer power failure,
even if it is just from hackers...
The power failures are caused by the California greenie crazies, and >>>>>>>> our rich gourmet airhead governor.
Yea, I dunno, bit nuclear power would be cool and constant.
More nuclear power stations are planned here, but that stuff takes >>>>>>> many years to get of the ground.
I did a quick calculation and for about 6000 Euro (7000 USD?) I >>>>>>>>> can be free from the power company as far as electricity
goes.
Cover the garden with solar panels, maybe add a small windmill. >>>>>>>>> Gas I will still need for heating.
Sure, nobody needs a garden.
The grapes are in the back, those can stay..
Actually taste quite good, sort of sweet :-)
Apple trees are at the side of the road here...
Hundreds laying about now.
Big storm last few days.. Would have been a lot of wind-power :-) >>>>>>>
Did you factor in enough batteries to get you through a few of weeks >>>>>>>> of winter gloom? Or even a few days of network collapse?
All my computers are now Raspberry Pies, so I use litle power, monitor uses the most,
Computer controlled color LED strips are light backup here, uses very liitle power.
I have a battery powered TV too for local stations, and an big 80 W >>>>>>> solar panel upstairs looking south in a window, that
Ican
use to charge it.
As I am radioham I have transmit and receive stuff for most
frequencies, including intercontinental satellte links via QO100 >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Es%27hail_2
So I will be able to hear and see UNCENSORED what is going on on this planet.
I have a 250 Ah 12 V Lifepo4 battery pack and a 2 kW 12 V to 230 V >>>>>>> 50 Hz pure sinewave converter,
You could charge it from your car too.
Small ones, vertical 150 W, take little space, something like this: >>>>>>> https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/windmolen-spiral-turbine-150-watt/9300000160846807/
Bit bigger, 600 W;
bol.com/nl/nl/p/wind-turbine-windturbine-kleine-windturbine-mini-windmolen-windenergie-energie-opwekken-hoge-efficientie-groene-stroom-600w-24v-met-5-blades/9300000089220218/
There are hundreds if not more models for a few hundred Euro / dollar online.
Chinese watts? At what wind speed?
Depends how much the wind is blowing
'The answer my friends is blowin in the wind, .."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowin%27_in_the_Wind
One solution is to put a lot of drugs next to your windmill, it will
attract lots of people
and they will start blowing.
I trust that the royalty of Europe, or maybe the Russians, will cut >>>>>>>> off your gas.
First: Netherlands has its own gas fields, but some where closed as >>>>>>> ground started sinking because of the gas drilling
causing
damage to some houses.
But the rest of the gas flow in Europe was disturbed by CIA clown >>>>>>> shitlensky blowing up the Northstream2 pipeline from
Russia,
and he recently blew up some other Russian pipeline to other EU countries.
He should be locked up, as well as the US Military Industrial
Complex that controls him.
All 'follow the money' US did it (had it done) to sell their own gas to Europe.
I want the US to compensate EVERY EUROPEAN for the extra cost plus a >>>>>>> huge fine for the US for the damage they did.
Gas prices were way up for a while,
First, pay us for the two world wars and the Berlin airlift and the >>>>>> Marshall Plan. With interest.
That damage you did to Germany you only partly payed back, same for
other places in Europe, and these days living standard in
East Germany is lower than in the west part.
Good point. We should have let the russians have all of Germany.
France too.
France new prime minister just resigned after just a few weeks in power. >>> Many people want new elections, but president Macron does not.
Youir CIA is daily busy making - and feeding - unrest in Europe.
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another
violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
Yea US dying so young
You, genocide supporting criminals put yourself above the law by
sanctioning the International Criminal Court.
Your f*cking nutcase leader is stealing our money and othyers and even >>>>> his own peepholes with his tariffs.
And it was actually *Russia* who got hold of - and killed - Hitler,
He killed himself.
What story to believe is hard.
You Ash was too busy fighting Japan in the Pacific.
You cannot pay back anything as you are a defunct fourth world (or is >>>>> it fifth?) country with the US dollies losing half their
value in the last 2.5 years versus gold.
Just babble like 'fusion power', IQ dropped to less than 2 digits,
only lost wars so far, war crimes
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/10/03/treasury-department-trump-dollar-coin-00593368
all your Precedent tramp is worth.
Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan, Iraq, Palestine, warcrimes, lies, cheat and deceat!!!
All weapon export to run that taxpayer funded Criminal Military Industrial Disaster
Money as the onty value, as 'god', greed as prayer and religion.
Doomed to infinity,
As to your -24V supply circuit diagram, if it ever works it is because >>>>> of some silly-con diode effect in that chip.
It's just a buck switcher with the output pins renamed.
I built it. It works fine. I do need to be careful about startup and
brownout cases, but that's always the case with switchers.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/15wrkq8kte9qfsj95h52u/X122_Oct_2.jpg?rlkey=mh504bitu1qxqi2njfstwre6q&raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/w5g4vkoke17k8uxfg2dhj/B200_Neg21_1.jpg?rlkey=6kilhyf1o3rvve7n5lm14f17f&raw=1
It might be prudent to let the Pi cpu drive the enable pin, so we can
check everything else before we kick this on, last thing. An
optocoupler would be the easy way. Enable is relative to the -V
output!
The missing ground path is forced that way.
It's a common technique. TI has an appnote on this topology, with lots >>>> of math.
New to me, would not want it that way.
Lots of people make little potted 3-pin things that are drop-ins for a
7805 linear regulator. Some of their data sheets suggest using them
this way, to make -5 from a positive supply.
John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics
The main problem with using buck modules as inverters is that the input and >output bypass caps wind up in series.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Mon, 06 Oct 2025 08:00:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
wrote:
Europe is thousands of years ahead of us on unrest. There's another
violence bubble brewing now, in Germany and France and the UK.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/10/06/french-pm-lecornu-faces-threat-of-government-collapse-hours-after-unveiling-macron-loyalist-cabinet/
Do people still use soldering guns?
