• Blowfish reliability

    From Anonymous@nobody@yamn.paranoici.org to sci.crypt on Tue Jul 15 15:54:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Is this blog post significant? <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

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  • From Peter Fairbrother@peter@tsto.co.uk to sci.crypt on Tue Jul 15 22:25:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    On 15/07/2025 16:54, Anonymous wrote:
    Is this blog post significant? <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>


    Somewhat, though nothing new.

    Blowfish uses 64-bit blocks which can lead to birthday and other
    collision attacks - nowadays even 128 bits isn't really enough for a new
    block cipher (some may disagree). 3DES has the same block size problem.

    Blowfish is also susceptible to meet-in-the-middle and differential
    attacks. The variable key size is also problematic.

    Implemented properly Blowfish is still secure - but it is getting harder
    to implement it properly, and some older implementations may no longer
    be secure. You have to worry about total traffic encrypted under one
    key, key size, some restrictions in modes - so overall it is considered
    better to use something more modern.

    Also again, as it is being deprecated, some platforms may no longer
    support it.



    Peter Fairbrother

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  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to sci.crypt on Tue Jul 15 22:07:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
    Is this blog post significant? <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

    The major significance is this sentence fragment from the first
    paragraph:

    "and should not be used for new applications."

    Don't start a new project and pick Blowfish as the cipher.

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  • From The Running Man@running_man@writeable.com to sci.crypt on Tue Jul 15 23:00:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    On 16/07/2025 00:07 Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
    Is this blog post significant?
    <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

    The major significance is this sentence fragment from the first
    paragraph:

    "and should not be used for new applications."

    Don't start a new project and pick Blowfish as the cipher.


    I can't conjure up any application which uses Blowfish, except
    maybe older versions of TrueCrypt and E4M.

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  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to sci.crypt on Wed Jul 16 03:21:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    The Running Man <running_man@writeable.com> wrote:
    On 16/07/2025 00:07 Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
    Is this blog post significant?
    <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

    The major significance is this sentence fragment from the first
    paragraph:

    "and should not be used for new applications."

    Don't start a new project and pick Blowfish as the cipher.


    I can't conjure up any application which uses Blowfish, except
    maybe older versions of TrueCrypt and E4M.

    At this point, they would all likely be old legacy applications, few of
    which are likely still in use.
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  • From Stefan Claas@stefan@mailchuck.com to sci.crypt on Wed Jul 16 12:56:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Rich wrote:
    The Running Man <running_man@writeable.com> wrote:
    On 16/07/2025 00:07 Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
    Is this blog post significant? <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

    The major significance is this sentence fragment from the first paragraph:

    "and should not be used for new applications."

    Don't start a new project and pick Blowfish as the cipher.


    I can't conjure up any application which uses Blowfish, except
    maybe older versions of TrueCrypt and E4M.

    At this point, they would all likely be old legacy applications, few of which are likely still in use.

    The problem is that the OP is one of many people from a.p.a-s who are
    still using old hard/software and are not upgrading nor following the
    latests best security practices.

    Regards
    Stefan
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  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to sci.crypt on Wed Jul 16 13:35:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Stefan Claas <stefan@mailchuck.com> wrote:
    Rich wrote:
    The Running Man <running_man@writeable.com> wrote:
    On 16/07/2025 00:07 Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
    Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
    Is this blog post significant?
    <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>

    The major significance is this sentence fragment from the first
    paragraph:

    "and should not be used for new applications."

    Don't start a new project and pick Blowfish as the cipher.


    I can't conjure up any application which uses Blowfish, except
    maybe older versions of TrueCrypt and E4M.

    At this point, they would all likely be old legacy applications, few of
    which are likely still in use.

    The problem is that the OP is one of many people from a.p.a-s who are
    still using old hard/software and are not upgrading nor following the
    latests best security practices.

    In which case that is their choice, and this NIST announcement changes
    nothing for them, they are equally at risk today as they were yesterday (this announcement did not reveal any new breaks).

    All this does is put them on notice that not upgrading is exposing them
    to potential risk.
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  • From Chax Plore@nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet to sci.crypt on Thu Jul 24 19:48:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    On 2025-07-15 23:25, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
    On 15/07/2025 16:54, Anonymous wrote:
    -a-a Is this blog post significant?
    <https://hatchjs.com/cryptographydeprecationwarning-blowfish-has-been-deprecated/>



    Somewhat, though nothing new.

    Blowfish uses 64-bit blocks which can lead to birthday and other
    collision attacks - nowadays even 128 bits isn't really enough for a new block cipher (some may disagree). 3DES has the same block size problem.

    Blowfish is also susceptible to meet-in-the-middle and differential
    attacks. The variable key size is also problematic.

    Implemented properly Blowfish is still secure - but it is getting harder
    to implement it properly, and some older implementations may no longer
    be secure. You have to worry about total traffic encrypted under one
    key, key size, some restrictions in modes - so overall it is considered better to use something more modern.

    Also again, as it is being deprecated, some platforms may no longer
    support it.



    Peter Fairbrother


    Someone rescaled Blowfish to 128-bit blocks:

    https://alexpukall.github.io/blowfish2/blowfish2-gcc.txt

    But the memory print of this version is monstrous.


    Chax Plore
    --

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  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to sci.crypt on Thu Jul 24 20:03:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Chax Plore <nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet> wrote:

    Someone rescaled Blowfish to 128-bit blocks:

    https://alexpukall.github.io/blowfish2/blowfish2-gcc.txt

    But the memory print of this version is monstrous.

    Can you quantify "monstrous"? Just how big is that?
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  • From Chris M. Thomasson@chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com to sci.crypt on Thu Jul 24 13:11:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    On 7/24/2025 1:03 PM, Rich wrote:
    Chax Plore <nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet> wrote:

    Someone rescaled Blowfish to 128-bit blocks:

    https://alexpukall.github.io/blowfish2/blowfish2-gcc.txt

    But the memory print of this version is monstrous.

    Can you quantify "monstrous"? Just how big is that?

    Big enough to make people say this is a scary part in a horror movie?
    Say dead space? Well, I am jesting here. Not sure how to quantify "monstrous"... Sigh. ;^o
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  • From Chax Plore@nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet to sci.crypt on Fri Jul 25 10:30:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    On 2025-07-24 22:03, Rich wrote:
    Chax Plore <nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet> wrote:

    Someone rescaled Blowfish to 128-bit blocks:

    https://alexpukall.github.io/blowfish2/blowfish2-gcc.txt

    But the memory print of this version is monstrous.

    Can you quantify "monstrous"? Just how big is that?


    In this particular case: 16912 bytes total of P-box and S-boxes onstants.
    --

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  • From Rich@rich@example.invalid to sci.crypt on Fri Jul 25 18:15:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.crypt

    Chax Plore <nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet> wrote:
    On 2025-07-24 22:03, Rich wrote:
    Chax Plore <nznmrqmrxr@qazk.bet> wrote:

    Someone rescaled Blowfish to 128-bit blocks:

    https://alexpukall.github.io/blowfish2/blowfish2-gcc.txt

    But the memory print of this version is monstrous.

    Can you quantify "monstrous"? Just how big is that?

    In this particular case: 16912 bytes total of P-box and S-boxes onstants.

    While that may very well be significantly larger than other algorithms,
    unless you are working in a very RAM constrained embedded system, ~16k
    of state is not likely to be significant for most systems. And even if
    one were doing some kind of network server where each network link
    consumed that amount for 'state', 1GiB of RAM would still hold enough
    state blocks for 63,489 simultaneous network flows. And any server
    meant for that much networking is likely going to have by far more than
    1GiB of RAM installed.

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