From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

On 14/07/2025 6:34 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

generate consistent and strong serving performance today. He does
have the ability to generate lots of pace but he doesn't have the
ease of Sinner to do the same. Also, he doesn't have varieties
on his serving swings.

Sinner won today because he had a great serving day.

I think it was more mental. Carlos always loses his serve easily after
winning a set because he gets complacent and doesn't have a real game
plan. He needs to change this or Sinner will start piling up the slams
as he has no real chinks or loss in intensity. Maybe Carlos needs to
start looking for a different coach. He's a freakish talent but is not maximizing his performances.
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Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 14/07/2025 6:34 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> generate consistent and strong serving performance tod

He was getting hammered yesterday and Sinner did what other
retired pros expected him to do, hitting backhands dtl with ease
and these were crucial. This is why Carlos was complaining to his
team during the match that Sinner was playing better than
him.

Many of these great rallies and super shots that Carlos produced
ended up having Sinner answering with better shots.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:

On 14/07/2025 6:34 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

generate consistent and strong serving performance today.-a He does
-a have the ability to generate lots of pace but he doesn't have the
-a ease of Sinner to do the same. Also, he-a doesn't have varieties
-a on his serving swings.

Sinner won today because he had a great serving day.

I think it was more mental. Carlos always loses his serve easily after winning a set because he gets complacent and doesn't have a real game
plan. He needs to change this or Sinner will start piling up the slams
as he has no real chinks or loss in intensity. Maybe Carlos needs to
start looking for a different coach.-a He's a freakish talent but is not maximizing his performances.

FWIW, this is a very clear analysis of the two opponents.

Too, as I watched it, it seemed like it would play out like I had
thought: Alcaraz snatching back any breaks in his own serve, almost at will.

In the first set this visibly got to Sinner's ("what? again?"), and I
though he was cooked.

But he composed himself and immediately got on top again and held
himself there. He did not collapse--if anything, losing the first set
may have galvanized him, firmed up his resolve.

This led me to consider that what drives Sinner, as much as liking to
win, was *HATING* to lose--like Connors and Mac. Connors even made it
clear: he said that winning was fine, but hating to lose was what drove him.

Maybe it's not quite as extreme for Sinner, but I'm now thinking that
maybe this self-motivator is in him--the idea of losing is extremely
repugnant to him. Compare this to how Alacaraz appears; "Oh, well, just another day of playing in the sun...")

You are also right about Alcaraz just sorta puttering along, no plan.
His moment-to-moment shot-making brilliance has been sufficient to bail
him out in every previous important match for the last 3 years.

But he was also a bit off. He missed his drop-shot more than any other
match I can recall, and he made a fair number uncharacteristic unforced
errors (he does this usually, but he did it a bit more yesterday, maybe).

But absolutely we saw something very, very important in Sinner, and
that's that you could see the two areas where he got hurt badly at the
French (troubles with Alcaraz' drop shots, and failure to come to the
net successfully), he cured both of these problems for Wimbledon, plus
he put away the loss of the French, which could have been devastating to
a player with less character, since he could have won the French by
either breaking Alcaraz' serve, or holding his own serve in the next
game. He failed to do either, and that's the sort of thing that sends
people like Kyrigos or into semi-retirement. And Tsitsipas, same thing...

Maybe we've got a serious, long-term head-to-head competition on the
male side. Let's hope so.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:

On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:
Maybe we've got a serious, long-term head-to-head competition on the
male side. Let's hope so.

This is the 1st time we've seen real evidence of maybe Sinner ending up
being the greater player in the long run. He looks more unflappable and
treats his career like a 'process', not putting pressure on specific
matches. That's a unique way of managing your career, and very clever
way of defusing pressure so he can play his best, focus on process etc.
He detracts himself from the psychological pressure. It's almost like
an AI machine, Murderbot. It was on full display in FO the way he
almost came back in the final.

Carlos looked frustrated, for good reason. When you look at the FO and Wimbledon finals combined Sinner is the same all the way through the 9
sets, no change in form or attitude, winning or losing. Carlos was
having meltdowns in Wimbledon final. We don't see that
volatility/instability from Sinner.

The bad news for Carlos is Sinner has won last 3 hardcourt slams and the
next 2 are on hardcourt. It's going to take something special to stop
him winning both. I always thought Carlos would be a big chance for a calendar slam, but now Sinner seems more certain to do it.

It really is scary for the rest of the field who look incapable of
bridging the gap, it's just getting wider. Young Fonseca looks like the
only hope to beat these 2 now and again in slams, but we'll have to see
how consistent he'll be.


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------=_Part_2_100553826.1752573505359
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:= Maybe we've got a serious, long-term head-to-head competition on the > ma=

le side. Let's hope so.This is the 1st time we've seen real evidence of may=
be Sinner ending up being the greater player in the long run. He looks more=
unflappable and treats his career like a 'process', not putting pressure o=
n specific matches. That's a unique way of managing your career, and very = clever way of defusing pressure so he can play his best, focus on process e= tc. He detracts himself from the psychological pressure. It's almost like =
an AI machine, Murderbot. It was on full display in FO the way he almost c= ame back in the final.Carlos looked frustrated, for good reason. When you = look at the FO and Wimbledon finals combined Sinner is the same all the way=
through the 9 sets, no change in form or attitude, winning or losing. Car= los was having meltdowns in Wimbledon final. We don't see that volatility/i= nstability from Sinner.The bad news for Carlos is Sinner has won last 3 har= dcourt slams and the next 2 are on hardcourt. It's going to take something=
special to stop him winning both. I always thought Carlos would be a big = chance for a calendar slam, but now Sinner seems more certain to do it.It r= eally is scary for the rest of the field who look incapable of bridging the=
gap, it's just getting wider. Young Fonseca looks like the only hope to b= eat these 2 now and again in slams, but we'll have to see how consistent he= 'll be.






I'm a proponent of theory that for most people, outstanding slam wins are a=
s draining as much as tough losses.

Both Federer and Djokovic were effectively done for 2019 after their Wimble= don match.

After 2012 AO, Nadal managed to win FO and was gone for an entire year, and=
Djokovic too.


It's how it is.


Alcaraz winning FO the way he did, it's almost as he feels uncomfortable wi= nning again, undeserved winner? I'm not saying it's the case for him person= ally, but it's how psychology works. Survival guilt and other stuff.

So I assumed he won't be as sharp. He can't be. And I assumed the same for = Sinner.

However we see that Sinner is certainly managing his emotions better. It's = not that Alcaraz is bad, but this guy is so methodical, he's doing it all p= erfect.

Alcaraz felt less sharp overall, but Sinner only once, the way he came flat=
into the match with Dimitrov, he was ready for a shocking loss. Luckily fo=
r him he survived and then bounced back.

And most importantly, such bad days happen to everyone, you don't win all 7=
matches easily, so I can't really connect the dots and say it has anything=
to do with FO.

So that's what impressed me the most about him. It seems FO left no mark on=
him.



Djokovic could have beaten Alcaraz, especially in this Wimbledon given that=
Alcaraz was a bit distracted, bit less sharp and surely has somewhat overp= layed in recent months (he played finals everywhere from Monte Carlo, Barce= lona, Rome, FO, Queens, Wimbledon) and that Djokovic can embrace Alcaraz ch= allenge, I thought Djokovic has a puncher's chance.


But he can't beat Sinner anymore, probably anywhere. So Sinner would win th= eir SF and that's why he was my pick for the contest.



To me it says Sinner is the real deal, as it is now, he has perfected his g= ame.=20

He knows any match he loses is a just percentage thing, he can't win them a= ll, so he's not losing any sleep over it.

Ruthless approach.

It's what we all saw coming when we saw him in that COVID autumn 2020 FO wh=
en he played Nadal in QF.


This guy won't have much nerves if he ever plays USO final for the Grand Sl=
am and he will do it.



--=20




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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:> Maybe we've got a serio

Sinner should have won the FO, simple like that.
As I have said many times, Carlos has no strategies for matches
when he steps on courts. It's been like family business for him
so far. The guy needs a tactical coach.

Before the match, the odds flipped to a Sinner win and this was
about the same time many experts were saying that Sinner should
hammer Carlos with his bh dtl. I was surprised the next day to
see this happening in full display.

Alcaraz is trying to stay happy on court doing what he likes
playing the way he enjoys but at some point this will need to
change to more routine robotic play if he wants to continue
winning slams.
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r> On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/1

Slams are draining for the fans but these champions are always
hungry for more.

Sinner has been very consistent in his performance, play and
results for two years. If you plot his performance over time it
will be almost a horizontal or little rising line with time,
while Alcaraz's chart has peaks and valleys.

In any match we know Sinner will bring super serving, great ground
strokes and consistency, while for Alcaraz we know we will get to
see some great shots, some dropshots, and athleticism. Comparing
what we always expect as mentioned above makes it easy to digest
their results so far.
Sinner will be defending his turf in Wimbledon after this win and
it's Alcaraz that will have difficulty getting back
there.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

On 15/07/2025 7:58 pm, *skriptis wrote:

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:> Maybe we've got a serious, long-term head-to-head competition on the > male side. Let's hope so.This is the 1st time we've seen real evidence of maybe Sinner ending up being the greater player in the long run. He looks more unflappable and treats his career like a 'process', not putting pressure on specific matches. That's a unique way of managing your career, and very clever way of defusing pressure so he can play his best, focus on process etc. He detracts himself from the psychological pressure. It's almost like an AI machine, Murderbot. It was on full display in FO the way he almost came back in the final.Carlos looked frustrated, for good reason. When you look at the FO and Wimbledon finals combined Sinner is the same all the way through the 9 sets, no change in form or attitude, winning or losing. Carlos was having meltdowns in Wimbledon final. We don't see that volatility/instability from Sinner.The bad news for Carlos is Sinner has won last 3 hardcourt slams and the next 2 are on hardcourt. It's going to take something special to stop him winning both. I always thought Carlos would be a big chance for a calendar slam, but now Sinner seems more certain to do it.It really is scary for the rest of the field who look incapable of bridging the gap, it's just getting wider. Young Fonseca looks like the only hope to beat these 2 now and again in slams, but we'll have to see how consistent he'll be.

I'm a proponent of theory that for most people, outstanding slam wins are as draining as much as tough losses.

Both Federer and Djokovic were effectively done for 2019 after their Wimbledon match.

After 2012 AO, Nadal managed to win FO and was gone for an entire year, and Djokovic too.

It's how it is.

Alcaraz winning FO the way he did, it's almost as he feels uncomfortable winning again, undeserved winner? I'm not saying it's the case for him personally, but it's how psychology works. Survival guilt and other stuff.

So I assumed he won't be as sharp. He can't be. And I assumed the same for Sinner.

However we see that Sinner is certainly managing his emotions better. It's not that Alcaraz is bad, but this guy is so methodical, he's doing it all perfect.

Alcaraz felt less sharp overall, but Sinner only once, the way he came flat into the match with Dimitrov, he was ready for a shocking loss. Luckily for him he survived and then bounced back.

And most importantly, such bad days happen to everyone, you don't win all 7 matches easily, so I can't really connect the dots and say it has anything to do with FO.

So that's what impressed me the most about him. It seems FO left no mark on him.

Djokovic could have beaten Alcaraz, especially in this Wimbledon given that Alcaraz was a bit distracted, bit less sharp and surely has somewhat overplayed in recent months (he played finals everywhere from Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Rome, FO, Queens, Wimbledon) and that Djokovic can embrace Alcaraz challenge, I thought Djokovic has a puncher's chance.

But he can't beat Sinner anymore, probably anywhere. So Sinner would win their SF and that's why he was my pick for the contest.

To me it says Sinner is the real deal, as it is now, he has perfected his game.

He knows any match he loses is a just percentage thing, he can't win them all, so he's not losing any sleep over it.

Ruthless approach.

It's what we all saw coming when we saw him in that COVID autumn 2020 FO when he played Nadal in QF.

This guy won't have much nerves if he ever plays USO final for the Grand Slam and he will do it.

Good analysis. I just figured Novak could still hit an extremely high
level if well rested, and especially at Wimbledon. He had plenty of motivation to get the 25 so we know he had a tangible goal. The
Sinner/Novak match up kinda snuck under the radar for me, but yeah looks
like it's a bad one for Novak given he can't rely on mental or physical lapses. If they were same age I'd say Novak wins most of these as he's
just hungrier, but at 38 the tank drains quicker.

Yes it's remarkable that he appears to have shaken off the devastating
FO loss. I agree this will help him handle calendar slam pressures in a
USO final and we are unlikely to see the the kind of freezing up we saw
from Novak that day.

I knew Sinner was going to win a few slams and be really good, but this
is next level the way it's looking. Before this final I was certain
Carlos would have the better slam career, and he would have had 6 slams
v 3 for Sinner despite being 2 years younger. That's out of the window
a bit now. If Carlos bounces back and wins USO convincingly it may
change back, but right now you'd think Sinner is as close to a sure
thing at USO as we've seen.



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On 15/07/2025 10:38 pm, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:> Maybe we've got a serio

Sinner should have won the FO, simple like that.
As I have said many times, Carlos has no strategies for matches
when he steps on courts. It's been like family business for him
so far. The guy needs a tactical coach.

Before the match, the odds flipped to a Sinner win and this was
about the same time many experts were saying that Sinner should
hammer Carlos with his bh dtl. I was surprised the next day to
see this happening in full display.

Alcaraz is trying to stay happy on court doing what he likes
playing the way he enjoys but at some point this will need to
change to more routine robotic play if he wants to continue
winning slams.

Yes I agree. Sinner will wait and punish any silly lapses from Carlos,
and there are plenty of those. If Sinner wins USO too I expect Carlos
will have a new coach for the new year.
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On 16/07/2025 12:19 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r> On 15/07/2025 1:58 am, Sawfish wrote:> On 7/1

Slams are draining for the fans but these champions are always
hungry for more.

Sinner has been very consistent in his performance, play and
results for two years. If you plot his performance over time it
will be almost a horizontal or little rising line with time,
while Alcaraz's chart has peaks and valleys.

In any match we know Sinner will bring super serving, great ground
strokes and consistency, while for Alcaraz we know we will get to
see some great shots, some dropshots, and athleticism. Comparing
what we always expect as mentioned above makes it easy to digest
their results so far.
Sinner will be defending his turf in Wimbledon after this win and
it's Alcaraz that will have difficulty getting back
there.

Looks that way. I actually tipped Sinner to win Wimbledon last year as
he had the game for grass, but wasn't aware of all the juicing stuff
going on that would have distracted him.

It does look like Carlos is starting to panic, looks deep in thought.
Sinner's level has spooked him and he's thinking about his options. I
think Ferrero is on the way out. The exciting thing is Carlos does have
the tools to beat Sinner, and watching that level of tennis will be
amazing over the next few years. These 2 will just keep pushing each
other higher leaving the field further in the dust.
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Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 16/07/2025 12:19 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> *skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

I don't believe Ferrero will ever be out. He will always be there
but he may need to work with another coach similar to Sinner's
situation.

The scary part for me is that I believe Alcaraz won't think about
bringing a new coach unless Ferrero suggests this for
him.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.tennis

On 7/14/2025 10:58 AM, Sawfish wrote:

On 7/14/25 2:14 AM, Whisper wrote:

On 14/07/2025 6:34 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

generate consistent and strong serving performance today.-a He does
-a have the ability to generate lots of pace but he doesn't have the
-a ease of Sinner to do the same. Also, he-a doesn't have varieties
-a on his serving swings.

Sinner won today because he had a great serving day.

I think it was more mental. Carlos always loses his serve easily after
winning a set because he gets complacent and doesn't have a real game
plan. He needs to change this or Sinner will start piling up the slams
as he has no real chinks or loss in intensity. Maybe Carlos needs to
start looking for a different coach.-a He's a freakish talent but is
not maximizing his performances.

FWIW, this is a very clear analysis of the two opponents.

Too, as I watched it, it seemed like it would play out like I had
thought: Alcaraz snatching back any breaks in his own serve, almost at
will.

In the first set this visibly got to Sinner's ("what? again?"), and I
though he was cooked.

But he composed himself and immediately got on top again and held
himself there. He did not collapse--if anything, losing the first set
may have galvanized him, firmed up his resolve.

This led me to consider that what drives Sinner, as much as liking to
win, was *HATING* to lose--like Connors and Mac. Connors even made it
clear: he said that winning was fine, but hating to lose was what drove
him.

Connors was simply amazing, on and off the court. Probably quite the
bastard.

Maybe it's not quite as extreme for Sinner, but I'm now thinking that
maybe this self-motivator is in him--the idea of losing is extremely repugnant to him. Compare this to how Alacaraz appears; "Oh, well, just another day of playing in the sun...")

You are also right about Alcaraz just sorta puttering along, no plan.
His moment-to-moment shot-making brilliance has been sufficient to bail
him out in every previous important match for the last 3 years.

But he was also a bit off. He missed his drop-shot more than any other
match I can recall, and he made a fair number uncharacteristic unforced errors (he does this usually, but he did it a bit more yesterday, maybe).

But absolutely we saw something very, very important in Sinner, and
that's that you could see the two areas where he got hurt badly at the French (troubles with Alcaraz' drop shots, and failure to come to the
net successfully), he cured both of these problems for Wimbledon, plus
he put away the loss of the French, which could have been devastating to
a player with less character, since he could have won the French by
either breaking Alcaraz' serve, or holding his own serve in the next
game. He failed to do either, and that's the sort of thing that sends
people like Kyrigos or into semi-retirement. And Tsitsipas, same thing...

Maybe we've got a serious, long-term head-to-head competition on the
male side. Let's hope so.

Good post, thanks. Agree 100%
--
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On 7/15/2025 1:11 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 16/07/2025 12:19 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> *skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

I don't believe Ferrero will ever be out. He will always be there
but he may need to work with another coach similar to Sinner's
situation.

The scary part for me is that I believe Alcaraz won't think about
bringing a new coach unless Ferrero suggests this for
him.

Nice insight. And I, too, hope you are wrong.
--
---------------
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On 16/07/2025 4:11 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:

Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 16/07/2025 12:19 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> *skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr> Wrote in message:r

I don't believe Ferrero will ever be out. He will always be there
but he may need to work with another coach similar to Sinner's
situation.

The scary part for me is that I believe Alcaraz won't think about
bringing a new coach unless Ferrero suggests this for
him.

Maybe, but I think he's smarter than he appears to be. He decides when
to take a break as he knows what's good for him overall, ignores
Ferrero's advice to keep working etc. He may need assistance in finding
a coach to take him to next level, can't really ask Ferrero. Djokovic
would be an awesome coach imo but doubt he'd be interested for a long
while. Maybe he can approach Novak and ask his advice/opinion and who
he recommends? That's where I might go if I was in his position, they
seem to get on quite well. Novak doesn't seem to like Sinner much and
would be happy to see Carlos come out on top.
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Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r

On 16/07/2025 4:11 am, PeteWasLucky wrote:> Whisper <whisper@ozemail.com.au> Wrote in message:r>>

Alcaraz's parents are so good people to have Djokovic in their
son's team
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