From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 13:00:59 +0000, Mark wrote:

Werner Pichler wrote:

Mark <Pammiesheart@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Werner Pichler wrote:

On 05.07.2025 22:18, Mark wrote:

Werner Pichler wrote:

LetrCOs vote on a Top 6 from the remaining teams.
Looking forward to it!

Ciao,
Werner

Are you serious or are you just messing me around?

Both.

Well please don't mess me around.

Why not? ItrCOs just a pointless list in a venerable but
half-forgotten corner of the internet.

It's not pointless. It would be a fun, interesting and informative
discussion if you and Blueshirt didn't spoil it.

LURKING HERE AND READING THIS THREAD SHOWS ME YOU ARE JUST BEING
STUBBORN AND REFUSE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANYBODY ELSE'S OPINIONS.

The whole point of the thread was to compile a list that nobody
strongly disagrees with. If there's a team in it that someone
strongly disagrees with, then we won't achieve that. If the vote
produces a list that includes a team that has been strongly
disagreed with then the vote is a waste of time. So it's pointless
including those teams in the vote.

Actually, in that case itrCOs pointless having a list.
Your whole methodology is flawed.

And yet nobody has come up with a better way. If anybody does, they're
free to start their own thread.

A VOTE IS THE MOST DEMOCRATIC WAY - OPEN TO EVERY TEAM.

What have you got against a list that nobody strongly disagrees
with?

IrCOve told you before, I strongly disagree with the
dishonest way yourCOve been conducting this, and
IrCOm not the only one.

It's not dishonest. I've been open and fair right from the start.

I MUST HAVE MISSED THAT PART

Anyway they're not my 2 options.

Yes, it is. Option B. No list. IrCOll veto everything.

Then why should I take you seriously? The evidence suggests you're just messing me around and don't really strongly disagree with those teams.

Please will you stop messing me around and let me know whether you
really do strongly disagree with the teams you've said you strongly
disagree with?

I STRONGLY DISAGREE.

1 of my other options is to stop being lenient with the deadlines and
dismiss your strong disagreement. As I want this to be as accurate a representation of the views of rssers as possible (and that desire
seems to be what you're counting on for your messing me around to
work), I'd prefer not to be too strict with deadlines though. If I
decide that that's my best option, I'm willing to settle for the list
we've already got though.

NOT SURE YOU ARE GETTING MUCH AGREEMENT FROM ANYONE.

I'm not applying my veto on the teams I dislike anymore than
Futbolmetrix was applying his veto on a team he dislikes when he
strongly disagreed with the inclusion of Inter. If Michael is MH he
already has 'applied his veto' on Bayern Munchen. I've accepted 3
teams that I think are among the top 10 best teams ever not being
included. There's nothing unreasonable about expecting other
people to accept 1 team that they think should be included not
being included. I've treated everyone fairly.

It's not as if I deliberately designed it so that I could exclude
teams that I personally strongly disagree with. I had as little
idea that this is the way things would turn out as everyone else
did.

Yes you did, and from the beginning. You were
adamant about no English teams and havenrCOt moved
an inch despite strong disagreement on every side.

No I didn't. I've never said anything suggesting English teams weren't allowed. Blueshirt may have said that, I've never even hinted at that ridiculous bias.

THAT'S GOOD: I VOTE FOR MANCHESTER UNITED THEN.

So fairrCOs fair. IrCOll do the same for the South American
teams except Santos.

After all, Liberum Veto already destroyed the Polish-Lithuanian
Commonwealth, it won't stop short of your paltry list.

What's Liberum Veto?

Look it up in Wikipedia. It's a very good web-site.

For clarification for everyone else: Independiente, Penarol and Boca
Juniors are all still available for nomination until further notice,
just in case anyone was unsure whether to nominate them or not.
Hopefully we can resolve this amicably.

I STRONGLY DIDSAGEE WITH YOUR LIST.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO NOMINATE 'MANCHESTER UNITED FC' FOR INCLUSION,
THAT'S THE SIR ALEX FERGUSON ERA OF MULTIPLE LEAGUE TITLES (13) FA CUPS
(6) EUROPEAN CUPS (2) AND INTER-CONTINENTAL/CLUB WORLD CUPS. (2)

THEY ARE MORE DESEVING OF A PLACE ON THE LIST THAN LIVERPOOL.

I WOULD PUT LIVERPOOL AHEAD OF PENAROL OR BOCA JUNIORS IN A TOP TEN LIST
THO.
--
https://www.theory11.com/
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 14:10:56 +0000, MH wrote:

Ciao,
Werner

For clarification for everyone else: Independiente, Penarol and Boca
Juniors are all still available for nomination until further notice,
just in case anyone was unsure whether to nominate them or not.
Hopefully we can resolve this amicably.

It will be resolved amicably when I launch an independent nomination and voting process. Just forget about it until then. Hint: nobody gets a
veto.

ANO OPEN VOTE WITH NO VETO MAKES SENSE - THAT WOULD BE DEMOCRATIC.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Fri, 11 Jul 2025 15:48:19 +0000, Mark wrote:

Futbolmetrix wrote:

If people want to present their arguments, I'm willing to listen. We've already done the discussion part of the process though. And it's unfair
for people to pressure me into not strongly disagreeing by means other
than that.

But sometimes restating the argument doesn't hurt. I'm not pressuring
you into anything.

Regarding Liverpool 1976-1985, the strongest case for them is the
comparison to Independiente of the early 1970s: they both dominated
their continental competitions (Liverpool over an extended period, Independiente's dominance was more concentrated), but their performance
in the Intercontinental was pretty dismal: Liverpool went 0-2, including
a very comprehensive thrashing by a very good Flamengo side;
Independiente went 1-2 (0-1 and a comprehensive thrashing by the
*actual* European Champions).

I think reasonable people can disagree on the relative ranking of
Independiente and Liverpool. But I don't think it's reasonable to say
that one is an absolute must in any list, while the other has to be
excluded from the list at all costs.

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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

Mark wrote:

Ammammata wrote:

Mark presented the following explanation :

What do yous think?

in the pre-european cups era, say before the fifties, I'd
like to add Torino squad, with Valentino Mazzola as leader
:-)

Are you nominating Torino 1945-49 for the vote then?

i have already nominted MANCHESTER UNITED of the Sir Alex Feguson era.
They are deserving of inclusion based on their large trophy haul during
that era which includes the inter-continental cup and a club world cup.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

As somebody who roots for United I would second that proposal.

Exclude Liverpool include United.

Or exclude the soccer teams i have never heard of, then include United.

Either option works for me.
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Vive Les Nordiques!
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 10:47:33 +0000, Mark wrote:

Ammammata wrote:

Jesus Petry brought next idea :

Rubentus 2011-2020

you must put several "asterisks" on this entry

In light of all the recent criticism, I've decided to rename the list.
I accept that rss-sanctioned isn't particularly accurate. From now on
it's the rss not strongly disagreed about top 9.

I'm still having problems with novaBBS, so there might not be a vote.
Maybe I'll decide for sure next time I try novaBBS.

A vote is the only fair way.

Just in case we do have one, keep the nominations coming though; the
deadline is midnight tonight. I might as well nominate the 9 in the 'provisional' list:

Barcelona 2009-2015
AC Milan 1988-1996
Real Madrid 1956-1960
Santos 1961-1965
Ajax 1970-1973
Independiente 1971-1975
Real Madrid 2014-2018
Penarol 1960-1966
Boca Juniors 2000-2003

I have already nominated MANCHESTER UNITED of the Sir Alex treble
winning era.
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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Thu, 17 Jul 2025 6:37:41 +0000, Theory11 wrote:

I have already nominated MANCHESTER UNITED of the Sir Alex treble
winning era.

One could make a case for the inclusion of two separate Manchester
United teams:

1992-2003: 8 Premier league titles in 11 years, CL in 1999, plus an
assortment of domestic cups. This is the team identified with Giggs,
Beckham, Scholes, Neville, Keane, Schmeichel, Solskjaer. But there was a
lot of turnover, and only Giggs was a regular at both the beginning and
the end of the era.

2007-2013: 5 Premier League titles in 7 years, the CL in 2008, Club
World Cup in 2008, two CL finals (both lost to Gurdiola's Barcelona),
plus domestic cups. I would identify this team with Rooney, Cristiano
Ronaldo, Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra. Giggs and Scholes were still
around, but clearly in decline.

I think the later team had more star power and was more successful on
the international stage, but it's possible that ManU fans are more fond
of the earlier team, maybe because of its core of home-grown players.

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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Mon, 14 Jul 2025 16:51:09 +0000, Jesus Petry wrote:

On 14/07/2025 10:56, Mark wrote:

Ammammata wrote:

It happens that Mark formulated :

Are you nominating Torino 1945-49 for the vote then?

yes, of course, maybe start from 1942-43
https://www.rsssf.org/tablesi/ital43.html

Just a reminder: people have got just over 2 days to nominate their
teams for the vote.

So far we have:

Torino 1942-49

Surely somebody's going to nominate 1 or more of the 9 in the
'provisional' list.

I nominate (again) the following teams:

River Plate 1996-2000
Boca Juniors 1998-2003
Santos 1961-1965
Internacional 1975-1979
S|uo Paulo 2005-2008
Palmeiras 2016-2023
Liverpool 1975-1984
Manchester United 1992-2003
Manchester City 2017-2024
Bayern M|+nchen 2012-2023
Internazionale 1962-1966
AC Milan 1987-1996
Juventus 2011-2020
Real Madrid 1960-1969
Barcelona 2008-2016

And endorse the following additions by Ll|-o:
Vasco da Gama 1945-1952
Botafogo 1957-1962
Flamengo 1980-1983
Corinthians 1998-2000

A few more nominations:

Juventus 1976-1985: 6 Serie A title in 10 years, UEFA CUo, Cup Winners
Cup, European Cup, Intercontinental Cup during that period, two other
European semifinals narrowly lost, the core of the Italian team that did
do well at WC1978 and won WC1982. The record would have been even better
if the 1983 European Cup Final has not been mysteriously cancelled.

Manchester United 1992-1993
Manchester United 2006-2013
Manchester City 2017-2025

(Just noticed that two of those were already in Jesus' list)

If we are also doing historical teams for which we have close to zero
visual records, then I would add:

Honved 1949-1956
Juventus 1930-1935
Arsenal 1930-1935


(hmm...an interesting project for AI? Take the written record of
historical matches and convert it into a modern-looking highlight reel)

Tchau!
Jesus Petry

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