• Utah Day 1

    From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Sat May 3 17:04:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of Cannonville, UT
    at an RJourney park. I believe these RJourney parks used to be KOA
    places, but I'm not entirely sure. It's right on Utah 12 and is only a
    10 minute drive or so to Bryce Canyon. I thought the place was just
    fine. Reasonably priced, with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and firewood available.

    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet service
    they had. I've had similar things happen in hotels with an older laptop
    I have, but it just would not connect my laptop. I contacted their
    support and they were unable to assign my MAC address for some reason or another they couldn't explain. So I could not use the laptop, wife
    could not get her Android to hook up, and I had to log back in with a
    new Iphone ever 5 minutes or so. The hook up to the network was just
    fine, but the damn provider they had with the ridiculous sign on to get
    to the internet was horrible. Trying to plan routes and do all the
    things we take for granted these days become very apparent when you
    can't get on the internet. Oh well. Here's a few pics of the little campground.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xtcvz3827c15vxte0v8u8/RJourney1.JPG?rlkey=ugss0vmj0q2y31sg1syndq0e4&dl=0>

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5sp8pg4m5v87a8r8opwqs/RJourney2.JPG?rlkey=ogxtj7t53e0ifi6uoy6yr9yi2&dl=0>

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ozdrz0rgdjzny7r5g8weh/RJourney3.JPG?rlkey=7adnez04npqaxdjcanmk7unmb&dl=0>

    Night time temps were a little warmer than our previous nights. It was
    around 38-40F or lows, and quickly warmed up in the morning. I watched
    the sun rise over the hill each morning and really enjoyed that. We
    did have to run the heater every night we were on the trip, used the gas
    for hot water and taking showers, and cooked on the weber grill. I was
    amazed that I managed the whole trip, even with having to have the heat
    on, without having to refill the tank and am just above 1/4 on the LP
    tank level. Seemed very efficient to me for 15 nights of heat.

    After three days of driving and acclimating to the elevation, we decided
    the first day to take a nice easy hike. We were both ready to move and
    do some walking. We headed to Bryce Canyon just up the road and did the Queens Garden/Navajo Loop hike. This is probably the most popular of
    all the hikes in Bryce because it only has about 600 feet of climb and
    is just shy of 3.5 miles in length. Unfortunately, that means you will
    most likely have plenty of company. As we were so early in the season,
    it wasn't overcrowded, but the 80F temps did bring out many people.
    The trail shows a little of everything Bryce is famous for...

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vr2prwsjxugnfndbrzrr4/NavajoLoop.JPG?rlkey=b4qjic6xpt8vf8xwuf41fan1c&dl=0>

    And on this trail everyone talks about the small section of switchbacks

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xykz8l4gb5ye3kqlp5ey9/Switchback.JPG?rlkey=mwljukwqq0lfpztut8kh6ccmy&dl=0>

    Which were really not much to worry about. Still, the knee swelled up a
    bit and we decided we'd do a day of hiking, and then a day of
    off-roading from then on and hope I could keep up. Fortunately, my wife coddled me for the rest of the hiking.

    Here's the track of the loop we did.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6dflotom9t8a7t7q53ngm/NavajoTrack.jpg?rlkey=6301en5z0qozaqewo83uhbj16&dl=0>

    It was a great start at seeing the area again and the weather was perfect!
    --
    Better Days Ahead!
    Darwinism Is Junk Science!!

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From George.Anthony@ganthony@gmail.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Mon May 5 00:17:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of Cannonville, UT
    at an RJourney park. I believe these RJourney parks used to be KOA
    places, but I'm not entirely sure. It's right on Utah 12 and is only a
    10 minute drive or so to Bryce Canyon. I thought the place was just
    fine. Reasonably priced, with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and firewood available.

    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet service
    they had.

    ItrCOs actually wi-fi service (IrCOm sure you know) and yourCOll be hard pressed
    to find an RV park with decent wi-fi. Even the ones with a fee arenrCOt anything to write home about.

    I've had similar things happen in hotels with an older laptop
    I have, but it just would not connect my laptop. I contacted their
    support and they were unable to assign my MAC address for some reason or another they couldn't explain. So I could not use the laptop, wife
    could not get her Android to hook up, and I had to log back in with a
    new Iphone ever 5 minutes or so. The hook up to the network was just
    fine, but the damn provider they had with the ridiculous sign on to get
    to the internet was horrible. Trying to plan routes and do all the
    things we take for granted these days become very apparent when you
    can't get on the internet. Oh well. Here's a few pics of the little campground.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xtcvz3827c15vxte0v8u8/RJourney1.JPG?rlkey=ugss0vmj0q2y31sg1syndq0e4&dl=0>

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5sp8pg4m5v87a8r8opwqs/RJourney2.JPG?rlkey=ogxtj7t53e0ifi6uoy6yr9yi2&dl=0>

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ozdrz0rgdjzny7r5g8weh/RJourney3.JPG?rlkey=7adnez04npqaxdjcanmk7unmb&dl=0>

    Night time temps were a little warmer than our previous nights. It was around 38-40F or lows, and quickly warmed up in the morning. I watched
    the sun rise over the hill each morning and really enjoyed that. We
    did have to run the heater every night we were on the trip, used the gas
    for hot water and taking showers, and cooked on the weber grill. I was amazed that I managed the whole trip, even with having to have the heat
    on, without having to refill the tank and am just above 1/4 on the LP
    tank level. Seemed very efficient to me for 15 nights of heat.

    After three days of driving and acclimating to the elevation, we decided
    the first day to take a nice easy hike. We were both ready to move and
    do some walking. We headed to Bryce Canyon just up the road and did the Queens Garden/Navajo Loop hike. This is probably the most popular of
    all the hikes in Bryce because it only has about 600 feet of climb and
    is just shy of 3.5 miles in length. Unfortunately, that means you will
    most likely have plenty of company. As we were so early in the season,
    it wasn't overcrowded, but the 80F temps did bring out many people.
    The trail shows a little of everything Bryce is famous for...

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vr2prwsjxugnfndbrzrr4/NavajoLoop.JPG?rlkey=b4qjic6xpt8vf8xwuf41fan1c&dl=0>

    And on this trail everyone talks about the small section of switchbacks

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/xykz8l4gb5ye3kqlp5ey9/Switchback.JPG?rlkey=mwljukwqq0lfpztut8kh6ccmy&dl=0>

    Which were really not much to worry about. Still, the knee swelled up a
    bit and we decided we'd do a day of hiking, and then a day of
    off-roading from then on and hope I could keep up. Fortunately, my wife coddled me for the rest of the hiking.

    Here's the track of the loop we did.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6dflotom9t8a7t7q53ngm/NavajoTrack.jpg?rlkey=6301en5z0qozaqewo83uhbj16&dl=0>

    It was a great start at seeing the area again and the weather was perfect!



    Nicereport and photos. As has been said here, itrCOs hard to not find beauty in Utah.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Sun May 4 19:56:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    On 5/4/2025 7:17 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of Cannonville, UT
    at an RJourney park. I believe these RJourney parks used to be KOA
    places, but I'm not entirely sure. It's right on Utah 12 and is only a
    10 minute drive or so to Bryce Canyon. I thought the place was just
    fine. Reasonably priced, with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and
    firewood available.

    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet service
    they had.

    ItrCOs actually wi-fi service (IrCOm sure you know) and yourCOll be hard pressed
    to find an RV park with decent wi-fi. Even the ones with a fee arenrCOt anything to write home about.

    Actually, I didn't find that to be the case. Both parks we stayed at
    had wi-fi that was good. I believe most places are being forced to
    start upgrading their service. At this place, hooking up to the wi-fi
    network was easy and good. The problem is their internet provider. For
    that you have to log on a certain web page for some reason, just like
    you do at hotels. The second place had the little poles just like the
    first with the radio hardware on them at various points in the park and hooking up there was also good. The difference was that they provided
    the internet service access themselves and didn't make you jump through
    hoops proving you were actually a customer there. If you know the
    password and join the network, you have internet and can do whatever you
    want. I'm not sure why places like hotels and the first site do it this
    way, but my best guess is that this is how they control access a little
    more and keep people from stealing bandwidth.

    ---snip---

    It was a great start at seeing the area again and the weather was perfect! >>


    Nicereport and photos. As has been said here, itrCOs hard to not find beauty
    in Utah.

    Been busy, but more coming soon hopefully.
    --
    Better Days Ahead!
    Darwinism Is Junk Science!!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From bfh@redydog@rye.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Mon May 5 13:38:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    sticks wrote:
    On 5/4/2025 7:17 PM, George.Anthony wrote:
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of
    Cannonville, UT
    at an RJourney park.-a I believe these RJourney parks used to be KOA
    places, but I'm not entirely sure.-a It's right on Utah 12 and is
    only a
    10 minute drive or so to Bryce Canyon.-a I thought the place was just
    fine.-a Reasonably priced, with clean bathrooms and showers,
    laundry, and
    firewood available.

    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet service
    they had.

    It|ore4raos actually wi-fi service (I|ore4raom sure you know) and you|ore4raoll be
    hard pressed
    to find an RV park with decent wi-fi. Even the ones with a fee aren|ore4raot >> anything to write home about.

    Actually, I didn't find that to be the case.-a Both parks we stayed at
    had wi-fi that was good.-a I believe most places are being forced to
    start upgrading their service.-a At this place, hooking up to the wi-fi network was easy and good.-a The problem is their internet provider.
    For that you have to log on a certain web page for some reason, just
    like you do at hotels.-a The second place had the little poles just
    like the first with the radio hardware on them at various points in
    the park and hooking up there was also good.-a The difference was that
    they provided the internet service access themselves and didn't make
    you jump through hoops proving you were actually a customer there.-a If
    you know the password and join the network, you have internet and can
    do whatever you want.-a I'm not sure why places like hotels and the
    first site do it this way, but my best guess is that this is how they control access a little more and keep people from stealing bandwidth.

    Occam's Razor suggests that the answer may be "follow the (potential)
    money". That becomes more likely if they want your email address
    and/or phone number.

    ---snip---

    It was a great start at seeing the area again and the weather was
    perfect!



    -a Nicereport and photos. As has been said here, it|ore4raos hard to not
    find beauty
    in Utah.

    Been busy, but more coming soon hopefully.


    --
    bill
    Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Mon May 5 19:09:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    On 5/5/2025 12:38 PM, bfh wrote:
    sticks wrote:

    Actually, I didn't find that to be the case.-a Both parks we stayed at
    had wi-fi that was good.-a I believe most places are being forced to
    start upgrading their service.-a At this place, hooking up to the wi-fi
    network was easy and good.-a The problem is their internet provider.
    For that you have to log on a certain web page for some reason, just
    like you do at hotels.-a The second place had the little poles just
    like the first with the radio hardware on them at various points in
    the park and hooking up there was also good.-a The difference was that
    they provided the internet service access themselves and didn't make
    you jump through hoops proving you were actually a customer there.-a If
    you know the password and join the network, you have internet and can
    do whatever you want.-a I'm not sure why places like hotels and the
    first site do it this way, but my best guess is that this is how they
    control access a little more and keep people from stealing bandwidth.

    Occam's Razor suggests that the answer may be "follow the (potential) money". That becomes more likely if they want your email address and/or phone number.

    You're probably right, bfh. You have to give an email and name, so
    they're selling it to someone. Ah, the world we live in.
    --
    Better Days Ahead!
    Darwinism Is Junk Science!!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ted Heise@theise@panix.com to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Thu May 8 13:35:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    On Sat, 3 May 2025 17:04:46 -0500,
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of
    Cannonville, UT at an RJourney park. I believe these RJourney
    parks used to be KOA places, but I'm not entirely sure. It's
    right on Utah 12 and is only a 10 minute drive or so to Bryce
    Canyon. I thought the place was just fine. Reasonably priced,
    with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and firewood
    available.

    I'm curious if you intentionally passed on camping at Kodachrome
    St Park? It is maybe close to 30 minutes beyond the highway, so
    that could sure be a factor.


    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet
    service they had. I've had similar things happen in hotels
    with an older laptop I have, but it just would not connect my
    laptop. I contacted their support and they were unable to
    assign my MAC address for some reason or another they couldn't
    explain. So I could not use the laptop, wife could not get her
    Android to hook up, and I had to log back in with a new Iphone
    ever 5 minutes or so. The hook up to the network was just
    fine, but the damn provider they had with the ridiculous sign
    on to get to the internet was horrible. Trying to plan routes
    and do all the things we take for granted these days become
    very apparent when you can't get on the internet. Oh well.

    I keep active on my cell phone plan an option to use it as a
    hotspot for just this reason. It's not optimal, but better than
    nothing if I need to plan routes (car or bike), campgrounds, or
    activities. My Acadia came with a data plan, so I can use it as a
    hotspot if my phone isn't getting enough signal (two different
    carriers).

    I'm a little jealous of your visit to the Escalante Grand
    Staircase. That's very much on my list, but we didn't have time
    to see much of it when we were there a year ago. We did get
    distant views from Bryce and Kodachrome, but distant.

    Thanks for the reports and the pics!
    --
    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From sticks@wolverine01@charter.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Thu May 8 15:44:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    On 5/8/2025 8:35 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
    On Sat, 3 May 2025 17:04:46 -0500,
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of
    Cannonville, UT at an RJourney park. I believe these RJourney
    parks used to be KOA places, but I'm not entirely sure. It's
    right on Utah 12 and is only a 10 minute drive or so to Bryce
    Canyon. I thought the place was just fine. Reasonably priced,
    with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and firewood
    available.

    I'm curious if you intentionally passed on camping at Kodachrome
    St Park? It is maybe close to 30 minutes beyond the highway, so
    that could sure be a factor.

    Funny you mention that. Our next hiking day was to Kodachrome. We
    checked out all the camping spots there that day. We didn't look into
    it when we were deciding where to stay, but one of the controlling
    factors for us was access to water. We were in early April, and lots of places just did not have it turned on yet. None that were in Colorado
    near the border did until May 1. We saw the RJourney place, liked the
    looks of it, fees were good, and they had heated water lines. I didn't
    have a heated hose with, so for the first two nights we just used the
    tank. It warmed up after that enough I could stay hooked up.

    Trying not to spoil my report, I will say that we were completely
    impressed with not only this state park, but their camping spots looked fantastic. Yeah, some were a little close to the thru drive, but they
    all had plenty of room, apart from each other, and most had shade of
    some sort. It looked like a real good place to stay if you could get reservations. I got a feeling the sites that take reservations must
    fill up in a hurry. The place had lots of people there when we looked
    at it in early April.


    The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet
    service they had.
    ---snip---
    I keep active on my cell phone plan an option to use it as a
    hotspot for just this reason. It's not optimal, but better than
    nothing if I need to plan routes (car or bike), campgrounds, or
    activities. My Acadia came with a data plan, so I can use it as a
    hotspot if my phone isn't getting enough signal (two different
    carriers).

    I had hoped we'd have enough service to do that as it's worked just fine
    in the past. Unfortunately, Cannonville was absolutely no phone service
    at all from my carrier. Just up the road I had good 5G, but nothing
    where we stayed.

    I'm a little jealous of your visit to the Escalante Grand
    Staircase. That's very much on my list, but we didn't have time
    to see much of it when we were there a year ago. We did get
    distant views from Bryce and Kodachrome, but distant.

    Thanks for the reports and the pics!

    We went back to the Staircase in the next day report coming for more off-roading. The route we took I would have to say that if you could
    only do one drive out there, this one would be it. A little bit of everything, and an all day affair. I don't think you could do this one
    in the Acadia, but I was shocked at times to see how far people got in
    with cars and even people pulling campers. I thought of Bill many times
    on the trip when I would see boondockers. I got a feeling some of them
    had to be towed out.
    --
    Darwinism Is Junk Science!!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From bfh@redydog@rye.net to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Thu May 8 16:58:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    sticks wrote:
    On 5/8/2025 8:35 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
    On Sat, 3 May 2025 17:04:46 -0500,
    -a-a sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    -a We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of
    -a Cannonville, UT at an RJourney park.-a I believe these RJourney
    -a parks used to be KOA places, but I'm not entirely sure.-a It's
    -a right on Utah 12 and is only a 10 minute drive or so to Bryce
    -a Canyon.-a I thought the place was just fine.-a Reasonably priced,
    -a with clean bathrooms and showers, laundry, and firewood
    -a available.

    I'm curious if you intentionally passed on camping at Kodachrome
    St Park?-a It is maybe close to 30 minutes beyond the highway, so
    that could sure be a factor.

    Funny you mention that.-a Our next hiking day was to Kodachrome.-a We checked out all the camping spots there that day.-a We didn't look into
    it when we were deciding where to stay, but one of the controlling
    factors for us was access to water.-a We were in early April, and lots
    of places just did not have it turned on yet.-a None that were in
    Colorado near the border did until May 1.-a We saw the RJourney place,
    liked the looks of it, fees were good, and they had heated water
    lines.-a I didn't have a heated hose with, so for the first two nights
    we just used the tank.-a It warmed up after that enough I could stay
    hooked up.

    Trying not to spoil my report, I will say that we were completely
    impressed with not only this state park, but their camping spots
    looked fantastic.-a Yeah, some were a little close to the thru drive,
    but they all had plenty of room, apart from each other, and most had
    shade of some sort.-a It looked like a real good place to stay if you
    could get reservations.-a I got a feeling the sites that take
    reservations must fill up in a hurry.-a The place had lots of people
    there when we looked at it in early April.


    -a The one bad thing about this place was the terrible internet
    -a service they had.
    ---snip---
    I keep active on my cell phone plan an option to use it as a
    hotspot for just this reason.-a It's not optimal, but better than
    nothing if I need to plan routes (car or bike), campgrounds, or
    activities.-a My Acadia came with a data plan, so I can use it as a
    hotspot if my phone isn't getting enough signal (two different
    carriers).

    I had hoped we'd have enough service to do that as it's worked just
    fine in the past.-a Unfortunately, Cannonville was absolutely no phone service at all from my carrier.-a Just up the road I had good 5G, but nothing where we stayed.

    I'm a little jealous of your visit to the Escalante Grand
    Staircase.-a That's very much on my list, but we didn't have time
    to see much of it when we were there a year ago.-a We did get
    distant views from Bryce and Kodachrome, but distant.

    Thanks for the reports and the pics!

    We went back to the Staircase in the next day report coming for more off-roading.-a The route we took I would have to say that if you could
    only do one drive out there, this one would be it.-a A little bit of everything, and an all day affair.-a I don't think you could do this
    one in the Acadia, but I was shocked at times to see how far people
    got in with cars and even people pulling campers.-a I thought of Bill
    many times on the trip when I would see boondockers.-a I got a feeling
    some of them had to be towed out.

    FTR, I wasn't one of them.
    --
    bill
    Theory don't mean squat if it don't work.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ted Heise@theise@panix.com to rec.outdoors.rv-travel on Fri May 9 14:00:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.outdoors.rv-travel

    On Thu, 8 May 2025 15:44:38 -0500,
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    On 5/8/2025 8:35 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
    On Sat, 3 May 2025 17:04:46 -0500,
    sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
    We stayed the first part of the Utah trip in the town of
    Cannonville, UT at an RJourney park...

    I'm curious if you intentionally passed on camping at
    Kodachrome St Park? It is maybe close to 30 minutes beyond
    the highway, so that could sure be a factor.

    Funny you mention that. Our next hiking day was to Kodachrome.
    We checked out all the camping spots there that day. We didn't
    look into it when we were deciding where to stay, but one of
    the controlling factors for us was access to water. We were in
    early April, and lots of places just did not have it turned on
    yet. None that were in Colorado near the border did until May
    1. We saw the RJourney place, liked the looks of it, fees were
    good, and they had heated water lines. I didn't have a heated
    hose with, so for the first two nights we just used the tank.
    It warmed up after that enough I could stay hooked up.

    Trying not to spoil my report, I will say that we were
    completely impressed with not only this state park, but their
    camping spots looked fantastic. Yeah, some were a little close
    to the thru drive, but they all had plenty of room, apart from
    each other, and most had shade of some sort. It looked like a
    real good place to stay if you could get reservations. I got a
    feeling the sites that take reservations must fill up in a
    hurry. The place had lots of people there when we looked at it
    in early April.

    We stayed at Kodachrome in mid March last year, and the place was
    quite a lot less than half full. The dates were Mar 16-19, so
    even over a weekend. Like you said, most of the spots there are
    nicely separated from others. Water was on then, though we did
    have our hose freeze one night.

    At any rate, I highly recommend that place, though it sounds like
    you had a good place as well. Definitely being not so far off the
    highway is a plus for getting to other things.


    I'm a little jealous of your visit to the Escalante Grand
    Staircase. That's very much on my list, but we didn't have
    time to see much of it when we were there a year ago. We did
    get distant views from Bryce and Kodachrome, but distant.

    Thanks for the reports and the pics!

    We went back to the Staircase in the next day report coming for
    more off-roading. The route we took I would have to say that
    if you could only do one drive out there, this one would be it.
    A little bit of everything, and an all day affair. I don't
    think you could do this one in the Acadia, but I was shocked at
    times to see how far people got in with cars and even people
    pulling campers. I thought of Bill many times on the trip when
    I would see boondockers. I got a feeling some of them had to
    be towed out.

    Good to know. We tried the "road" to Grosvenor Arch in the
    Acadia, and got maybe 3/4 of the way there before I chickened out
    and turned back. The car did pretty well, but there were narrow
    hill stretches that could have been a problem if we'd encountered
    any oncoming traffic, What finally stopped me was a pretty wet,
    muddy stretch that looked high risk for getting stuck--especially
    if we'd had to stop for anything.
    --
    Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA
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