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Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales rep
mentioned something about it having a larger alternator. That
make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a factory
installed system that would supply enough power at the 7-pin
connector to recharge a LiIon battery while towing.
Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales rep
mentioned something about it having a larger alternator. That
make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a factory
installed system that would supply enough power at the 7-pin
connector to recharge a LiIon battery while towing.
On 2/21/2025 8:49 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales
rep mentioned something about it having a larger alternator.
That make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a
factory installed system that would supply enough power at the
7-pin connector to recharge a LiIon battery while towing.
I am about 99.9% sure the answer to your question is no, Ted.
Still a good idea to get the big alternator, and maybe even a
double battery setup. The main problem is the wire size on the
7-pin plug.
...On my TOAD, I installed a power plug so I could use a 12
Gauge wire that was always on, but that was only for trying to
keep the battery on the TOAD up to run the braking system.
This would not be enough to charge depleted LI batteries.
What you need is very heavy gauge wire from the battery to the
back of the tow vehicle with a plug for a DC-DC charger if you
really want the tow vehicle to charge the trailer battery.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jHoEEkiUc>
On 2/21/2025 8:49 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales rep
mentioned something about it having a larger alternator. That
make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a factory
installed system that would supply enough power at the 7-pin
connector to recharge a LiIon battery while towing.
I am about 99.9% sure the answer to your question is no, Ted.
Still a good idea to get the big alternator, and maybe even a double
battery setup. The main problem is the wire size on the 7-pin plug.
On my TOAD, I installed a power plug so I could use a 12 Gauge wire
that was always on, but that was only for trying to keep the battery
on the TOAD up to run the braking system. This would not be enough
to charge depleted LI batteries.
What you need is very heavy gauge wire from the battery to the back
of the tow vehicle with a plug for a DC-DC charger if you really want
the tow vehicle to charge the trailer battery.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jHoEEkiUc>
sticks wrote:
On 2/21/2025 8:49 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales
rep mentioned something about it having a larger alternator.
That make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a
factory installed system that would supply enough power at
the 7-pin connector to recharge a LiIon battery while
towing.
I am about 99.9% sure the answer to your question is no, Ted.
What you need is very heavy gauge wire from the battery to the
back of the tow vehicle with a plug for a DC-DC charger if you
really want the tow vehicle to charge the trailer battery.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jHoEEkiUc>
Think alternatives too.
<https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-1-6KWH-12Volt-Battery-Inverter/dp/B0BN5ZWPK2/>
That's just one type (and not the cheapest). What I like too
here is ALL the parts in one kit. No going crazy to try to
piece it all together from separate parts that you aren't sure
match.
Just peek about and you'll see simple solutions built to lay
flat on an RV roof. Flat ones don't draw as well is my
understanding but then you don't have to move them about, lay
flat to drive, set them in a 'yard' to be stolen, and a host of
woes. On the other hand, the simple ;set out in the ground
then take in when going elsewhere has it's charm' for off-grid
folks.
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 02:21:21 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
sticks wrote:
On 2/21/2025 8:49 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Hi all,
Thinking of trading in my Acadia for a new one and the sales
rep mentioned something about it having a larger alternator.
That make me just idly wonder if it's possible to get a
factory installed system that would supply enough power at
the 7-pin connector to recharge a LiIon battery while
towing.
I am about 99.9% sure the answer to your question is no, Ted.
What you need is very heavy gauge wire from the battery to the
back of the tow vehicle with a plug for a DC-DC charger if you
really want the tow vehicle to charge the trailer battery.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_jHoEEkiUc>
Think alternatives too.
That's just one type (and not the cheapest). What I like too
here is ALL the parts in one kit. No going crazy to try to
piece it all together from separate parts that you aren't sure
match.
Just peek about and you'll see simple solutions built to lay
flat on an RV roof. Flat ones don't draw as well is my
understanding but then you don't have to move them about, lay
flat to drive, set them in a 'yard' to be stolen, and a host of
woes. On the other hand, the simple ;set out in the ground
then take in when going elsewhere has it's charm' for off-grid
folks.
Thanks for the great thoughts. I bookmarked the link. I'm also
recalling the Lance has a built in solar panel connector, so need
to do some research on what else I might need to make use of that.
Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 02:21:21 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
sticks wrote:
Think alternatives too.
<https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-1-6KWH-12Volt-Battery-Inverter/dp/B0BN5ZWPK2/>
That's just one type (and not the cheapest). What I like
too here is ALL the parts in one kit. No going crazy to
try to piece it all together from separate parts that you
aren't sure match.
Just peek about and you'll see simple solutions built to
lay flat on an RV roof. Flat ones don't draw as well is my
understanding but then you don't have to move them about,
lay flat to drive, set them in a 'yard' to be stolen, and a
host of woes. On the other hand, the simple ;set out in
the ground then take in when going elsewhere has it's
charm' for off-grid folks.
Thanks for the great thoughts. I bookmarked the link. I'm
also recalling the Lance has a built in solar panel connector,
so need to do some research on what else I might need to make
use of that.
Is the 'Lance' a brand of RV?
...Anyways you'd need either an inverter or all DC gear.
Sounds like you don't have the panels. It we can look up
'Lance' we could see the specs, likely 12V cabeling type?
(thinner guage than 24V).
Possible problems: OEM connectors. Probably not at the
inverter side but may be at the roof to panels.
How flat looking is the roof? Could it be wired already for a
basic install (with/without inverter). Look for a sort of boxy
mounting bracket near where cables come out and that may be an
empty inverter mount spot?
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 19:13:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 25 Feb 2025 02:21:21 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
sticks wrote:
Think alternatives too.
That's just one type (and not the cheapest). What I like
too here is ALL the parts in one kit. No going crazy to
try to piece it all together from separate parts that you
aren't sure match.
Just peek about and you'll see simple solutions built to
lay flat on an RV roof. Flat ones don't draw as well is my
understanding but then you don't have to move them about,
lay flat to drive, set them in a 'yard' to be stolen, and a
host of woes. On the other hand, the simple ;set out in
the ground then take in when going elsewhere has it's
charm' for off-grid folks.
Thanks for the great thoughts. I bookmarked the link. I'm
also recalling the Lance has a built in solar panel connector,
so need to do some research on what else I might need to make
use of that.
Is the 'Lance' a brand of RV?
Yeah, it's a Lance 1475 trailer, listed as a 2022.
...Anyways you'd need either an inverter or all DC gear.
Sounds like you don't have the panels. It we can look up
'Lance' we could see the specs, likely 12V cabeling type?
(thinner guage than 24V).
Possible problems: OEM connectors. Probably not at the
inverter side but may be at the roof to panels.
Looks like it's a Go Power set up, here is the brochure that came
with the trailer. The connector on the trailer matches what's
shown in the illustration...
Other info is here...
Looks pricey, with the 200 W kit running over $600. I'm not even
sure if that much wattage would meet my needs or even how to go
about calculating it.
How flat looking is the roof? Could it be wired already for a
basic install (with/without inverter). Look for a sort of boxy
mounting bracket near where cables come out and that may be an
empty inverter mount spot?
Roof seems pretty flat, though I don't recall having seen anything
like mounting or wiring that could be relevant.
Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 19:13:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
...I'm also recalling the Lance has a built in solar
panel connector, so need to do some research on what else
I might need to make use of that.
Is the 'Lance' a brand of RV?
Yeah, it's a Lance 1475 trailer, listed as a 2022.
https://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/1475/features/
That adds more detail on what it looks like inside.
Looks like it's a Go Power set up, here is the brochure that came
with the trailer. The connector on the trailer matches what's
shown in the illustration...
Other info is here...
Looks pricey, with the 200 W kit running over $600. I'm not even
sure if that much wattage would meet my needs or even how to go
about calculating it.
How flat looking is the roof? Could it be wired already for a
basic install (with/without inverter). Look for a sort of boxy
mounting bracket near where cables come out and that may be an
empty inverter mount spot?
Roof seems pretty flat, though I don't recall having seen anything
like mounting or wiring that could be relevant.
Ted Heise wrote:
Looks like it's a Go Power set up, here is the brochure that came
with the trailer. The connector on the trailer matches what's
shown in the illustration...
Other info is here...
Looks pricey, with the 200 W kit running over $600. I'm not even
sure if that much wattage would meet my needs or even how to go
about calculating it.
Ok, been fuzziling at this one. For the record, I know very little on electronics. I found some cute calculators to turn appliances into
wayts used per hour.
I'm old school. I'm going to plug in a powered up battery with
internal DC<->AC 'circuitry' (has DC plugs and AC plugs', can be
charged via either). I have a 'Jackery Explorer 500' and 2 Echflow
River 2' units.
- The Jackery holds it's charge well. The echoflow's don't but I
suspect it's not properly shut off though I see nothing.
I have some errands to run but when I get back, I'll charge one of the echoflow units then detach and plug in my radio and run off battery
until it stops or if as I suspect, I hit bedtime where I'll note
amount power remaining and turn it all off. The ecoflow river 2
units are not 'big' ones. They are typical 250$ or so ones if you
price shop.
How flat looking is the roof? Could it be wired already for a
basic install (with/without inverter). Look for a sort of boxy
mounting bracket near where cables come out and that may be an
empty inverter mount spot?
Roof seems pretty flat, though I don't recall having seen anything
like mounting or wiring that could be relevant.
As best I can tell, solar is an option and they didn't add it. You'd
have the spot on the side to plug in the solar panels bit but no
panels or the rest of the interior that you need.
This is the unit I have 2 of. Intended use were spot provisionpower with small loads or short usage. (Hubbies Mancave/shed as an
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 15:39:50 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 19:13:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
...I'm also recalling the Lance has a built in solar
panel connector, so need to do some research on what else
I might need to make use of that.
Is the 'Lance' a brand of RV?
Yeah, it's a Lance 1475 trailer, listed as a 2022.
https://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/1475/features/
That adds more detail on what it looks like inside.
Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it before.
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use of
the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge seems
likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the batterys has
lost a significant portion of its capacity after a day of towing.
Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run the fridge from the
propane tank while towing?
Ted Heise wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge
seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the
batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity after
a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run
the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
i'd gather data for a bit. There are several approaches to
this. What you want, is good batteries that don't 'leak all
the juice out' (lose charge at unacceptable rate when parked
for a bit, not being used). That means the Ecoflow River 2
isn't a wise choice in a long RV trip. The Jackery (hasn't had
the same test applies yet, patience dear one!) is a much better
bet. I know it was parked for 3 months once and lost only
about 5% charge. That wouldn't be noticable.
The ecoflow river (ECR2 for short) isn't a bad battery at all,
it's just not right for this application. It fits my needs
though with one running DVD/TV (perhaps laptop?) and other used
most of the time in the shed so Don can play with building
fishing lures and small wood working projects. If he has to
stop to recharge it, thats simple. We can even bring in a
spare portable AC with an electrical cord from the back porch.
(estimate ECR2 would last 3-4 hours on it's own with an LED
light).
You'd need more power and a longer holding time. More in line
with the Jackery.
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 00:37:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge
seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the
batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity after
a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run
the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
Any thoughts about running the fridge on propane while towing?
So if I'm reading this right, the concept would be to use some
kind of portable power station as something like a backup for the
trailer's installed battery? Seems it would be handy, and might
be simplest to set up with solar panels.
On 3/3/2025 7:39 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 00:37:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The
fridge seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why
the batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity
after a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous
to run the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
Any thoughts about running the fridge on propane while towing?
As far as I know, it's not illegal. You can do it, but it does
open up a slight bit of risk should something happen to the now
open gas tank.
...Seems to me the little juice those fridges pull you'd
be better off just using the trailer battery and figuring out
how to keep it charged up.
...Save the gas for hot water and heat if you need it.
FWIW, I think you've gone to the expense of installing a
Lithium battery in your unit, and we should go back to the
start here and help you work through this problem of getting
and keeping it charged.
...I am still recovering from surgery, and not in top form,
but this effort could be used here as a study in how to help
fellow RVers with similar problems. One way or another we
should come to some kind of consensus on what the group thinks
is a good way to solve this problem. There will be others like
Ted who are going to have the same questions.
The first problem is whether or not you can use the tow vehicle
to charge the trailer when moving from site to site. I assume
you would leave for any trip with it fully charged, so this
would be for mostly when packing up and going elsewhere. I
still think a DC-DC charger is your best bet here, and not as
complicated as it might initially appear.
Probably more affordable than you think too. We'll have to
look for good options on that. Once you have that, it could
also be used in an emergency to charge the trailer batteries
flatspotting, as well as using your generator.
Next, if your boon-docking, you need to get the battery charged
back up as it gets depleted. I know there were some additional
notes recently on what you have currently in the Lance, but I
was a little too under the weather to get into them too much.
I'll try and give a look tomorrow.
That said, it is my understanding you don't have a solar panel
of any type at the current time. So, we have to know if the
Lance does have a controller in it, just not hooked up, and if
it does have a plug in for the solar panel. I know you have
the generator you could use to charge the battery if you had
to, but to me the proper use of a solar panel and controller
that could keep the Lithium charged is the solution you should
be aiming for. Then, you'd only really use the generator if
you don't have shore power and need AC. On my unit it is
installed on the roof and keeps my pair of deep cycles fully
charged quite easily, with the fridge running too. I do like
the idea of having a portable panel that allows you to park the
Lance under a more shaded area and then place the panel more
out in the direct sunshine.
Maybe I am just still under a little brain fog from the
procedure, but it just seems like we are getting into the weeds
and not being helpful recently. But, I do think we can all put
our heads together and help you make a good decision on this
battery charging problem of yours. It's a universal concern for
RVers.
---snip---
So if I'm reading this right, the concept would be to use some
kind of portable power station as something like a backup for
the trailer's installed battery? Seems it would be handy, and
might be simplest to set up with solar panels.
IMO, this power station idea is not what you need. You already
have one, an expensive and capable one, with your lithium
battery. A solar setup is another thing. You just have to
figure out how to get the power to it. Answer the questions
posed above about what you have now and let's work through this
again, Ted.
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 15:39:50 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 26 Feb 2025 19:13:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
...I'm also recalling the Lance has a built in solar
panel connector, so need to do some research on what else
I might need to make use of that.
Is the 'Lance' a brand of RV?
Yeah, it's a Lance 1475 trailer, listed as a 2022.
https://www.lancecamper.com/travel-trailers/1475/features/
That adds more detail on what it looks like inside.
Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it before.
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use of
the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge seems
likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the batterys has
lost a significant portion of its capacity after a day of towing.
Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run the fridge from the
propane tank while towing?
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge
seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the
batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity after
a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run
the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
Probably not recommended but I used to do it all the time
before I got a residential fridge.
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 21:44:52 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
...Seems to me the little juice those fridges pull you'd
be better off just using the trailer battery and figuring out
how to keep it charged up.
I would also think the fridge (Norcold N4000) has light
electrical use, but the 100 Ah LIon battery is down to 80 or
less after a half day of towing. I can't think of much else in
the unit that draws meaningful power while towing.
If I'm reading things right (from web searches), it seems the
fridge should run at somewhere in the 50-100 W range.
Assuming worst case 100 W for five hours, I think that's 6 Ah
used, so the battery should not be getting drawn down as much
as I'm seeing. Maybe my calculations are off base.
On the other hand, I seem to recall that the fridge has stopped
running after a modest (less than an hour) time on the 12 V
system. I suppose I need to check this out further.
Regardless, it seems pretty clear my Acadia tow vehicle is not
producing enough juice to help.
So I looked at the manual for the fridge, and it clearly states it
only runs on 12 V if the trailer is connected to a running tow
vehicle. I guess the next step in better understanding the issue
would be to hook up the trailer and check the battery status while
the fridge is running on 12 V.
Regardless, it seems pretty clear my Acadia tow vehicle is not
producing enough juice to help.
If I want to look into getting a DC-DC charger and cable to back
of my Acadia installed, where would I start--is that a GMC dealer
thing, or an RV shop? Other?
On 3/5/2025 7:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
So I looked at the manual for the fridge, and it clearly
states it only runs on 12 V if the trailer is connected to a
running tow vehicle. I guess the next step in better
understanding the issue would be to hook up the trailer and
check the battery status while the fridge is running on 12 V.
Regardless, it seems pretty clear my Acadia tow vehicle is
not producing enough juice to help.
If I want to look into getting a DC-DC charger and cable to
back of my Acadia installed, where would I start--is that a
GMC dealer thing, or an RV shop? Other?
OK, this is a good place for getting started on what I was
suggesting we do to get some consensus on this charging of
trailer batteries universal problem for us RVers.
The first place to start would be the 7 prong plug in, on the
tow vehicle, and the vehicle being towed. I am going to take
it for granted most of us would be using a 7 prong plug. Any
differences are minimal and easily solved.
So let's start on the tow vehicle. It might surprise some of
us that our plugs don't even have power in them as delivered
from the factory. I have an F-150 and was quite surprised
myself that I had to install an additional fuse to get my line
hot. It was wired, but not fused and inactive. With today's
CANBUS systems, it can be difficult testing this, and you
really have to use a 12 volt test light and not a volt meter.
Mine was wired with 12 gauge wire, and I did install a 12 gauge
and a fused link that went from the umbilical directly to the
battery on my Toad. This, however is a regular automotive
battery and not a Lithium battery. This would NOT work for
charging a lithium as it needs a converter/charger before the
lithium, and even if I did have one, the trailer 7 prong is
probably only going to be able to provide between 5-10/12 amps
and that would not be enough to fully charge a lithium battery.
I think you need at least 20 amps to ever get a lithium
charged. (This is where having a bigger alternator could be
useful, as you could get a 40 amp or bigger charger greatly
speeding up charging.) Therefore, a DC-DC charger is the next
logical option (setting aside a perfect solar charging
install).
The next question is what is available on the trailer. Ted,
for example can plug into shore power, and even use his 7
prong, or so he thinks. So what exactly do you have on the
trailer that deals with recharging the house batteries if
anything? Does it already have a charger that would be capable
if you could only get it enough power? When you're on shore
power, does it also charge up the lithium batteries?
So, I think it is a certainty you cannot get enough power
simply off the 7 prong to do much of anything. So a DC-DC
charger is a perhaps, but a 6 gauge or bigger line for power to
the trailer is a must. Now, you have to figure out what you
already have on the trailer that you could use, if anything,
and what you will need to get. Next step is becoming certain
of what is on the trailer now.
...Would also be a good time to get a better understanding of
what that solar plug it has installed actually does. For
example, does it just give a route for power from a solar
source and charger/controller to the batteries, or does it
actually have any of the hardware in the path?
please remember this is all new to me too, and I'm trying to
work it out as we go too, so I've probably made some false
assumptions. That said, I think if we go step by methodical
step, we can figure out how to properly deal with all this in
an informed manner.
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 09:05:19 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
The first place to start would be the 7 prong plug in, on the
tow vehicle, and the vehicle being towed. I am going to take
it for granted most of us would be using a 7 prong plug.
Any differences are minimal and easily solved.
So let's start on the tow vehicle. It might surprise some of
us that our plugs don't even have power in them as delivered
from the factory. I have an F-150 and was quite surprised
myself that I had to install an additional fuse to get my
line hot. It was wired, but not fused and inactive. With
today's CANBUS systems, it can be difficult testing this, and
you really have to use a 12 volt test light and not a volt
meter.
My thinking was to take a reading from the LiIon battery app
with the battery connected to the trailer and then with the
fridge started (I think it may run off the batt for a minute or
two). Then I would connect the 7-pin to the running TV and
repeat these readings. Does that seem like a reasonable
approach?
I need a block of time to get out to the storage unit for this,
so in the meantime I figured I'd take some measurements at the
7-pin. First I connected clips from my multimeter with the TV
off. Surprisingly, I got some sparking, may have been from
touching across pins. But once I had a good connection I got
no voltage.
Now this could be from the line not being hot (e.g., because of
a fuse needed), or because a multimeter won't work. But I
vaguely recall having gotten a 12-13 V reading from the pins
some time in the past. So maybe the sparking blew the fuse.
I'm trying to run down where that would be and will let you
know what I find.
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 00:37:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The fridge
seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why the
batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity after
a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous to run
the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
Any thoughts about running the fridge on propane while towing?
i'd gather data for a bit. There are several approaches to
this. What you want, is good batteries that don't 'leak all
the juice out' (lose charge at unacceptable rate when parked
for a bit, not being used). That means the Ecoflow River 2
isn't a wise choice in a long RV trip. The Jackery (hasn't had
the same test applies yet, patience dear one!) is a much better
bet. I know it was parked for 3 months once and lost only
about 5% charge. That wouldn't be noticable.
The ecoflow river (ECR2 for short) isn't a bad battery at all,
it's just not right for this application. It fits my needs
though with one running DVD/TV (perhaps laptop?) and other used
most of the time in the shed so Don can play with building
fishing lures and small wood working projects. If he has to
stop to recharge it, thats simple. We can even bring in a
spare portable AC with an electrical cord from the back porch.
(estimate ECR2 would last 3-4 hours on it's own with an LED
light).
You'd need more power and a longer holding time. More in line
with the Jackery.
So if I'm reading this right, the concept would be to use some
kind of portable power station as something like a backup for the
trailer's installed battery? Seems it would be handy, and might
be simplest to set up with solar panels.
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 09:05:19 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 3/5/2025 7:41 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
So I looked at the manual for the fridge, and it clearly
states it only runs on 12 V if the trailer is connected to a
running tow vehicle. I guess the next step in better
understanding the issue would be to hook up the trailer and
check the battery status while the fridge is running on 12 V.
Regardless, it seems pretty clear my Acadia tow vehicle is
not producing enough juice to help.
If I want to look into getting a DC-DC charger and cable to
back of my Acadia installed, where would I start--is that a
GMC dealer thing, or an RV shop? Other?
OK, this is a good place for getting started on what I was
suggesting we do to get some consensus on this charging of
trailer batteries universal problem for us RVers.
The first place to start would be the 7 prong plug in, on the
tow vehicle, and the vehicle being towed. I am going to take
it for granted most of us would be using a 7 prong plug. Any
differences are minimal and easily solved.
Agree this is a good place to start, and you actually anticipated
my next step. I've been puzzling over in my head on the lack of
charging while towing. The Acadia does have a factory installed
7-pin connector right next to the receiver.
So let's start on the tow vehicle. It might surprise some of
us that our plugs don't even have power in them as delivered
from the factory. I have an F-150 and was quite surprised
myself that I had to install an additional fuse to get my line
hot. It was wired, but not fused and inactive. With today's
CANBUS systems, it can be difficult testing this, and you
really have to use a 12 volt test light and not a volt meter.
My thinking was to take a reading from the LiIon battery app with
the battery connected to the trailer and then with the fridge
started (I think it may run off the batt for a minute or two).
Then I would connect the 7-pin to the running TV and repeat these
readings. Does that seem like a reasonable approach?
I need a block of time to get out to the storage unit for this, so
in the meantime I figured I'd take some measurements at the 7-pin.
First I connected clips from my multimeter with the TV off.
Surprisingly, I got some sparking, may have been from touching
across pins. But once I had a good connection I got no voltage.
Now this could be from the line not being hot (e.g., because of a
fuse needed), or because a multimeter won't work. But I vaguely
recall having gotten a 12-13 V reading from the pins some time in
the past. So maybe the sparking blew the fuse. I'm trying to run
down where that would be and will let you know what I find.
It's a pain to prop open the spring loaded connector cover to get
in there with meter probes, so I'm thinking I might look for a
7-pin plug with attached wires that would make the connecting for measurements a little easier (and cleaner).
Another possible hitch (so to speak) is a small incident about a
year ago. I was towing a rental trailer and went over a RR
crossing dip too fast and the trailer tongue popped off the ball.
It yanked out the connector and adaptor (4 to 7 pin). The mount
bracket for the 7-pin on the TV also got bent upward and toward
the front of the car, so it probably bottomed out going over the
dip. So it's possible some connections got damaged, though
nothing was cut completely because I've used it with all the
signals and braking working since then.
In any case, the car goes to the dealer on Tuesday to get an
antenna repair, so I'm going to ask them to check out the 7-pin
while I'm there.
Mine was wired with 12 gauge wire, and I did install a 12 gauge
and a fused link that went from the umbilical directly to the
battery on my Toad. This, however is a regular automotive
battery and not a Lithium battery. This would NOT work for
charging a lithium as it needs a converter/charger before the
lithium, and even if I did have one, the trailer 7 prong is
probably only going to be able to provide between 5-10/12 amps
and that would not be enough to fully charge a lithium battery.
I think you need at least 20 amps to ever get a lithium
charged. (This is where having a bigger alternator could be
useful, as you could get a 40 amp or bigger charger greatly
speeding up charging.) Therefore, a DC-DC charger is the next
logical option (setting aside a perfect solar charging
install).
Yep, that all makes sense. I'll be digging into that more after I
get the basics above figured out.
The next question is what is available on the trailer. Ted,
for example can plug into shore power, and even use his 7
prong, or so he thinks. So what exactly do you have on the
trailer that deals with recharging the house batteries if
anything? Does it already have a charger that would be capable
if you could only get it enough power? When you're on shore
power, does it also charge up the lithium batteries?
Yes, the LiIon battery charges up quickly when on shore power.
The trailer has a Progressive Dynamics PD4000 Series Power Control
Center...
https://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4000-series/
According to the manual, it has a setting for lithium ion
batteries, and I believe I have it set correctly for that.
FWIW, the battery is this...
https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?srsltid=AfmBOooYbGPTdOaEImeJqF-g0vqKIb27qtceloDoubGXsc1Pk8-UK_C4
So, I think it is a certainty you cannot get enough power
simply off the 7 prong to do much of anything. So a DC-DC
charger is a perhaps, but a 6 gauge or bigger line for power to
the trailer is a must. Now, you have to figure out what you
already have on the trailer that you could use, if anything,
and what you will need to get. Next step is becoming certain
of what is on the trailer now.
This all sounds right. I think it's reasonably clear what's on
the trailer, but if I missed something, please say so.
...Would also be a good time to get a better understanding of
what that solar plug it has installed actually does. For
example, does it just give a route for power from a solar
source and charger/controller to the batteries, or does it
actually have any of the hardware in the path?
I'm pretty sure the plug on the side provides only a physical
connection to the power center. I'm pretty doubtful the control
center in the trailer would do anything to manage input from solar
panels, but maybe I'm missing something.
please remember this is all new to me too, and I'm trying to
work it out as we go too, so I've probably made some false
assumptions. That said, I think if we go step by methodical
step, we can figure out how to properly deal with all this in
an informed manner.
I really appreciate the help, can't say thanks enough!
Now this could be from the line not being hot (e.g., because of
a fuse needed), or because a multimeter won't work. But I
vaguely recall having gotten a 12-13 V reading from the pins
some time in the past. So maybe the sparking blew the fuse.
I'm trying to run down where that would be and will let you
know what I find.
Okay, I found the fuse (designated "trailer battery") and found it
was definitely blown. Put in a replacement, and still get no sign
of 12 V at the proper pins (at about the 1:30 and 7:00 positions).
So I guess next is to ask the dealer to look at it.
Might look for a test light too, I guess.
On 3/5/2025 4:11 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
Now this could be from the line not being hot (e.g.,
because of a fuse needed), or because a multimeter won't
work. But I vaguely recall having gotten a 12-13 V reading
from the pins some time in the past. So maybe the sparking
blew the fuse. I'm trying to run down where that would be
and will let you know what I find.
Okay, I found the fuse (designated "trailer battery") and
found it was definitely blown. Put in a replacement, and
still get no sign of 12 V at the proper pins (at about the
1:30 and 7:00 positions).
So I guess next is to ask the dealer to look at it.
Might look for a test light too, I guess.
To be honest, it is a good sign that it was blown.
...I did the exact same thing on my F-150. It hard to get
in there. But since it shorted out and blew the fuse, it must
have meant you actually had power there! Get your test light
and you'll know for sure.
On 3/5/2025 2:03 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
My thinking was to take a reading from the LiIon battery app
with the battery connected to the trailer and then with the
fridge started (I think it may run off the batt for a minute
or two). Then I would connect the 7-pin to the running TV and
repeat these readings. Does that seem like a reasonable
approach?
In truth, I think it is pointless in your case. I think we
already have agreed now you simply cannot get enough power to
charge your lithium batteries from the 7 prong. I would,
however, like to know if there is power coming in, and going
out to the trailer. If there is a power wire hooked up on the
7 prong on the trailer, where exactly does that power go?
Obviously the trailer lights you can easily figure out, and
they don't use power from the trailer battery. They draw
directly from the towing vehicle. Usually the power tab is for
trailer brakes, or an accessory of some sort or another. Were
you under the impression it somehow went to your battery?
Obviously it can't go directly there since it would be
incapable of charging lithium batteries, so does it go to the
controller you speak of later? You need to find out exactly
where that power goes, and here's why.
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:55:25 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 3/5/2025 2:03 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
My thinking was to take a reading from the LiIon battery app
with the battery connected to the trailer and then with the
fridge started (I think it may run off the batt for a minute
or two). Then I would connect the 7-pin to the running TV and
repeat these readings. Does that seem like a reasonable
approach?
In truth, I think it is pointless in your case. I think we
already have agreed now you simply cannot get enough power to
charge your lithium batteries from the 7 prong. I would,
however, like to know if there is power coming in, and going
out to the trailer. If there is a power wire hooked up on the
7 prong on the trailer, where exactly does that power go?
Obviously the trailer lights you can easily figure out, and
they don't use power from the trailer battery. They draw
directly from the towing vehicle. Usually the power tab is for
trailer brakes, or an accessory of some sort or another. Were
you under the impression it somehow went to your battery?
Obviously it can't go directly there since it would be
incapable of charging lithium batteries, so does it go to the
controller you speak of later? You need to find out exactly
where that power goes, and here's why.
Okay, here are some aditional points of information.
I'm positive there is power coming out of the 7-pin connector,
because I've frequently operated the powered lift jack without any
battery connected (i.e., only the 7-pin connected to the trailer).
Pretty sure there is power going into the trailer too, because my
memory (though not certain) is that the interior lights and other
12 V things work in the same circumstance (i.e., no battery
connected, just the running TV).
As I lay awake in bed last turning this over and over in my mind,
I seemed to recall the Acadia had a 110 V outlet in the second row
of seats. Indeed there is when I checked it this morning. Rated
at 150 W max, it seems I could use this with my NOCO GENIUS 5
charger (max 75 W draw) to charge the trailer battery in a pinch.
Might could even use it to run the coffee grinder. ;)
Gotta run to see the cardiologist now, but will come back to this
later today.
On 3/6/2025 7:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:55:25 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
In truth, I think it is pointless in your case. I think we
already have agreed now you simply cannot get enough power
to charge your lithium batteries from the 7 prong. I
would, however, like to know if there is power coming in,
and going out to the trailer. If there is a power wire
hooked up on the 7 prong on the trailer, where exactly does
that power go? Obviously the trailer lights you can easily
figure out, and they don't use power from the trailer
battery. They draw directly from the towing vehicle.
Usually the power tab is for trailer brakes, or an
accessory of some sort or another. Were you under the
impression it somehow went to your battery? Obviously it
can't go directly there since it would be incapable of
charging lithium batteries, so does it go to the controller
you speak of later? You need to find out exactly where
that power goes, and here's why.
Okay, here are some aditional points of information.
I'm positive there is power coming out of the 7-pin connector,
because I've frequently operated the powered lift jack without
any battery connected (i.e., only the 7-pin connected to the
trailer).
Pretty sure there is power going into the trailer too, because
my memory (though not certain) is that the interior lights and
other 12 V things work in the same circumstance (i.e., no
battery connected, just the running TV).
It looks like the PD 4000 power controller you have only does
one thing that I can tell, that being to convert AC power into
DC power. It operates when it is plugged into shore power and
charges the batteries, but will also provide power for the DC
power outlets without the need for the battery. So you can
rule out using this controller for charging from the DC
supplied power from the 7 prong plug.
So you do have some AC outlets in the unit I believe, and these
most likely only work when the shore line cord is plugged in.
There might be a disconnect switch somewhere, but it probably
just has a bank, or something like a electrical box that ties
in all the AC outlets to the shoreline somehow.
...To get AC power without being plugged in, you would need
an additional inverter that would change the DC battery power
into AC for use at those outlets. So far, you have not said
you have such an inverter.
I think you're ability to use the lift jacks off the 7 prong is
interesting. I think it is probably wired mainly for trailer
brakes, although it looks like the dry weight of your unit is
around 3,000 lbs and 4,000 is the legal requirement for trailer
brakes. Do you have a brake controller in the Acadia and use
trailer brakes on your Lance?
How else it could be wired into the Lance's volt system is an
interesting question. You say you think you also get lights.
Sounds like there must be some other kind of control box then
if this is true, and I would certainly follow the power lead
off the 7 prong to find out where it goes. Mainly, because it
should NOT be going directly to the battery since it is a
Lithium. You simply cannot charge a Lithium battery properly
from the alternator of a modern vehicle on it's own. It would
never charge the Lithium, and it could harm the alternator.
That capability requires the addition of the DC to DC
generator.
You say you get these lights "without any battery connected."
I'm assuming you mean you either have a disconnect switch, or
you have the battery cable actually disconnected. You see what
I'm getting at? If the interior DC circuits have no access to
the battery, how is it they are getting power from the 7 prong.
Where does it get hooked into the system?
As I lay awake in bed last turning this over and over in my
mind, I seemed to recall the Acadia had a 110 V outlet in the
second row of seats. Indeed there is when I checked it this
morning. Rated at 150 W max, it seems I could use this with
my NOCO GENIUS 5 charger (max 75 W draw) to charge the trailer
battery in a pinch. Might could even use it to run the coffee
grinder. ;)
It looks like this unit is more for non-lithium batteries, but
it does say it can charge them. I'm not sure, though.
Doesn't seem to have enough power capability to do much of
anything.
Gotta run to see the cardiologist now, but will come back to
this later today.
Hope you got some good reports!
On 3/6/2025 5:56 PM, sticks wrote:
---snip to add direction---
OK, I think we're getting somewhere with figuring out Ted's
options. I want to split this now into the second area we need
to look into, which is solar power generation. We do need to
keep going on the other part till we've reached consensus and
answered all the questions.
On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 17:56:09 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 3/6/2025 7:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Wed, 5 Mar 2025 19:55:25 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
In truth, I think it is pointless in your case. I think we
already have agreed now you simply cannot get enough power
to charge your lithium batteries from the 7 prong. I
would, however, like to know if there is power coming in,
and going out to the trailer. If there is a power wire
hooked up on the 7 prong on the trailer, where exactly does
that power go? Obviously the trailer lights you can easily
figure out, and they don't use power from the trailer
battery. They draw directly from the towing vehicle.
Usually the power tab is for trailer brakes, or an
accessory of some sort or another. Were you under the
impression it somehow went to your battery? Obviously it
can't go directly there since it would be incapable of
charging lithium batteries, so does it go to the controller
you speak of later? You need to find out exactly where
that power goes, and here's why.
Okay, here are some aditional points of information.
I'm positive there is power coming out of the 7-pin connector,
because I've frequently operated the powered lift jack without
any battery connected (i.e., only the 7-pin connected to the
trailer).
Pretty sure there is power going into the trailer too, because
my memory (though not certain) is that the interior lights and
other 12 V things work in the same circumstance (i.e., no
battery connected, just the running TV).
It looks like the PD 4000 power controller you have only does
one thing that I can tell, that being to convert AC power into
DC power. It operates when it is plugged into shore power and
charges the batteries, but will also provide power for the DC
power outlets without the need for the battery. So you can
rule out using this controller for charging from the DC
supplied power from the 7 prong plug.
I think that's probably correct. Here is the (typical) exterior
wiring diagram from the manual...
https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Lance-1475-ext-wiring-traced.pdf
This shows that the 7-pin does connect to the battery, and seems
consistent with the trailer manual statement that "Normally the
battery will be kept charged by either the tow vehicle charging
system while on the road or by the AC/DC power convertor when
plugged into AC service." It looks like the TV is wired directly
to the battery and not by way of the PD4000 load center (though
it's also wired into the load center).
From some sites I've looked at while trying to figure this all out
(can't remember where) I've gotten the sense that the Acadia would
be trickle charging the trailer battery. And of course the car's
system is designed for lead acid chemistry, so isn't going to be
very (or at all) effecive for charging the trailer's lithium
battery. I also have the sense that the fridge must draw more
than the Acadia supplies and be drawing the difference from the
trailer battery when towing.
The Lance manual also says, "The 30 amp main circuit breaker
located on the chassis in the car connector junction box will not
allow power into the trailer or the battery(s) to be charged when
an overload or short circuit occurs." That said, I'm not sure
this junction box warrants further investigation so long as the
trailer is getting power. Stil need to double confirm the trailer
is in fact getting power from the Acadia, and will try to get that
done tomorrow morning.
So you do have some AC outlets in the unit I believe, and these
most likely only work when the shore line cord is plugged in.
There might be a disconnect switch somewhere, but it probably
just has a bank, or something like a electrical box that ties
in all the AC outlets to the shoreline somehow.
Yes, correct, there are AC outlets in the Lance. Looks like the
power goes from the shore line to the outlets by way of the load
center...
https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Lance-schematic.jpg
...To get AC power without being plugged in, you would need
an additional inverter that would change the DC battery power
into AC for use at those outlets. So far, you have not said
you have such an inverter.
Pretty sure there is no inverter in the trailer (though it seems
there must be one in the Acadia to run its low power AC outlet).
I think you're ability to use the lift jacks off the 7 prong is
interesting. I think it is probably wired mainly for trailer
brakes, although it looks like the dry weight of your unit is
around 3,000 lbs and 4,000 is the legal requirement for trailer
brakes. Do you have a brake controller in the Acadia and use
trailer brakes on your Lance?
Yes, there is a brake controller in the Acadia, installed by the
RV dealer I got the Lance from.
How else it could be wired into the Lance's volt system is an
interesting question. You say you think you also get lights.
Sounds like there must be some other kind of control box then
if this is true, and I would certainly follow the power lead
off the 7 prong to find out where it goes. Mainly, because it
should NOT be going directly to the battery since it is a
Lithium. You simply cannot charge a Lithium battery properly
from the alternator of a modern vehicle on it's own. It would
never charge the Lithium, and it could harm the alternator.
That capability requires the addition of the DC to DC
generator.
So the diagram I posted shows the power does go from the Acadia to
the Lance battery. Is that a problem? I don't think there's any
other kind of control box, unless it's in the junction box under
the Lance tongue (or maybe in the Acadia's tow system).
You say you get these lights "without any battery connected."
I'm assuming you mean you either have a disconnect switch, or
you have the battery cable actually disconnected. You see what
I'm getting at? If the interior DC circuits have no access to
the battery, how is it they are getting power from the 7 prong.
Where does it get hooked into the system?
Yes, the interior lights go on with no battery in place (or with
it and disconnected), I think the wiring schematic shows it goes
into the load canter.
As I lay awake in bed last turning this over and over in my
mind, I seemed to recall the Acadia had a 110 V outlet in the
second row of seats. Indeed there is when I checked it this
morning. Rated at 150 W max, it seems I could use this with
my NOCO GENIUS 5 charger (max 75 W draw) to charge the trailer
battery in a pinch. Might could even use it to run the coffee
grinder. ;)
It looks like this unit is more for non-lithium batteries, but
it does say it can charge them. I'm not sure, though.
Doesn't seem to have enough power capability to do much of
anything.
Gotta run to see the cardiologist now, but will come back to
this later today.
Hope you got some good reports!
Thanks! Just sporadic supraventricular arrhythmias, not a fib.
Pretty benign according to the cardiologist.
On 3/7/2025 10:55 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Thu, 6 Mar 2025 17:56:09 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 3/6/2025 7:54 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
Pretty sure there is power going into the trailer too,
because my memory (though not certain) is that the interior
lights and other 12 V things work in the same circumstance
(i.e., no battery connected, just the running TV).
I think that [PD 4000's limitation] is probably correct.
Here is the (typical) exterior wiring diagram from the
manual...
https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/Lance-1475-ext-wiring-traced.pdf
This shows that the 7-pin does connect to the battery, and seems
consistent with the trailer manual statement that "Normally the
battery will be kept charged by either the tow vehicle charging
system while on the road or by the AC/DC power convertor when
plugged into AC service."
Your pic show about the same thing I found out today. First, I
got two pics from the manual and the first from page 50 does
state the power prong on the 7 prong plug goes to the battery
and will provide charge.
<https://postimg.cc/gallery/r4xVRjj>
The second pic is similar to your showing the PD4000 as well as
the 7 prong. It has a smallest size of 8 gauge right at the
generator and has a capability of 35 amps, though it has a 30
amp inline mini breaker. This would be a nice setting for
charging the Lithium and probably close to what you'd get if
you did a DC to DC generator at either 20 or 30 amp.
I would agree this setup is not really taking into
consideration having a lithium battery, though I don't think ti
hurts anything if you leave it as is and go ahead and install a
DC to DC converter. It is just a trickle going to that.
So you do have some AC outlets in the unit I believe, and
these most likely only work when the shore line cord is
plugged in. There might be a disconnect switch somewhere,
but it probably just has a bank, or something like a
electrical box that ties in all the AC outlets to the
shoreline somehow.
Yes, correct, there are AC outlets in the Lance. Looks like
the power goes from the shore line to the outlets by way of
the load center...
https://panix.com/~theise/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Lance-schematic.jpg
Yep. You plug in your shore cord, you will get power at the AC
outlets. Since you have no inverter, these should be dead
unless you plug in the shore line.
So the diagram I posted shows the power does go from the
Acadia to the Lance battery. Is that a problem? I don't
think there's any other kind of control box, unless it's in
the junction box under the Lance tongue (or maybe in the
Acadia's tow system).
You could ask the dealer if this can be left alone if you add a
DC to DC converter, or even if they think it will harm the
alternator on the Acadia, but I don't think it would matter and
could just be left alone.
mind, I seemed to recall the Acadia had a 110 V outlet in
the second row of seats. Indeed there is when I checked it
this morning. Rated at 150 W max, it seems I could use this
with my NOCO GENIUS 5 charger (max 75 W draw) to charge the
trailer battery in a pinch. Might could even use it to run
the coffee grinder. ;)
It looks like this unit is more for non-lithium batteries,
but it does say it can charge them. I'm not sure, though.
Doesn't seem to have enough power capability to do much of
anything.
Gotta run to see the cardiologist now, but will come back to
this later today.
Hope you got some good reports!
Thanks! Just sporadic supraventricular arrhythmias, not a
fib. Pretty benign according to the cardiologist.
Good to know. Keep the rubber down!
You could ask the dealer if this can be left alone if you add
a DC to DC converter, or even if they think it will harm the
alternator on the Acadia, but I don't think it would matter
and could just be left alone.
I think this is right. The low power over the 7-pin is pretty
unlikely to ever get the LI battery up to full, unless it's
very close before starting a day of towing.
I also tested the system with the fridge running. With only
the LI battery connected, its app showed the fridge was drawing
about 17 amps and that it would be discharged in under 6 hours.
With the running Acadia also connected, the LI battery app
showed a bit over 7 A draw, with somewhat over 14 hours of
runtime left.
From this, I take that the fridge draws so much that it robs
from the LI battery as well as from the Acadia. My impression
is that if the LI battery is relatively full at the start of a
towing day I should just disconnect it while towing so it
doesn't get drawn down and it's SOC is preserved. The fridge
should run okay on only the jiuce from the Acadia via the
7-pin.
on the other hand, if the LI is low on charge when I start a
day of towing, I could consider leaving it connected and
running the fridge on propane.
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:38:39 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
You could ask the dealer if this can be left alone if you add
a DC to DC converter, or even if they think it will harm the
alternator on the Acadia, but I don't think it would matter
and could just be left alone.
I think this is right. The low power over the 7-pin is pretty
unlikely to ever get the LI battery up to full, unless it's
very close before starting a day of towing.
I also tested the system with the fridge running. With only
the LI battery connected, its app showed the fridge was drawing
about 17 amps and that it would be discharged in under 6 hours.
With the running Acadia also connected, the LI battery app
showed a bit over 7 A draw, with somewhat over 14 hours of
runtime left.
From this, I take that the fridge draws so much that it robs
from the LI battery as well as from the Acadia. My impression
is that if the LI battery is relatively full at the start of a
towing day I should just disconnect it while towing so it
doesn't get drawn down and it's SOC is preserved. The fridge
should run okay on only the jiuce from the Acadia via the
7-pin.
on the other hand, if the LI is low on charge when I start a
day of towing, I could consider leaving it connected and
running the fridge on propane.
A couple of additional thoughts I meant to work in.
First, I expect the fridge was at its max demand when I tested
yesterday, because I'd just started it up. Seems the draw would
be less (at least the duty cycle would be lessened) once the
inside has reached temp.
Second, it seems possible that once the Acadia's battery has been
fully charged the alternator output might drop and the trickle
charge going out via the 7-pin to the Lance would also drop. I
figure I can watch this next time we are actually towing.
On 3/9/2025 9:33 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Sat, 8 Mar 2025 19:38:39 -0000 (UTC),
Ted Heise <theise@panix.com> wrote:
...The low power over the 7-pin is pretty unlikely to
ever get the LI battery up to full, unless it's very close
before starting a day of towing.
From this, I take that the fridge draws so much that it
robs from the LI battery as well as from the Acadia. My
impression is that if the LI battery is relatively full at
the start of a towing day I should just disconnect it while
towing so it doesn't get drawn down and it's SOC is
preserved. The fridge should run okay on only the jiuce
from the Acadia via the 7-pin.
on the other hand, if the LI is low on charge when I start
a day of towing, I could consider leaving it connected and
running the fridge on propane.
A couple of additional thoughts I meant to work in.
First, I expect the fridge was at its max demand when I tested
yesterday, because I'd just started it up. Seems the draw
would be less (at least the duty cycle would be lessened) once
the inside has reached temp.
Yeah, I thought that too, and it kind of is confirmation where
in the Lance docs is says to turn it on a day ahead of time to
get it cold. I don't think it's that it uses less power, it
just runs less.
Second, it seems possible that once the Acadia's battery has
been fully charged the alternator output might drop and the
trickle charge going out via the 7-pin to the Lance would also
drop. I figure I can watch this next time we are actually
towing.
Well, it does appear you've got a much better handle on exactly
what your equipment does, and what the capabilities are. If
you choose to improve on them with a DC to DC generator or a
solar array, you now have a good base of information to go
with. Nice job, Ted!
On Mon, 3 Mar 2025 21:44:52 -0600,
sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> wrote:
On 3/3/2025 7:39 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 4 Mar 2025 00:37:03 -0000 (UTC),
Carol <cshenk@virginia-beach.com> wrote:
Ted Heise wrote:
I'm now wondering if my best bet may just be to minimize use
of the battery so it might last a couple of days. The
fridge seems likely to the biggest draw, and is probably why
the batterys has lost a significant portion of its capacity
after a day of towing. Would it be unacceptably dangerous
to run the fridge from the propane tank while towing?
Any thoughts about running the fridge on propane while towing?
As far as I know, it's not illegal. You can do it, but it does
open up a slight bit of risk should something happen to the now
open gas tank.
Yeah, that's sorta been my read of the situation too. Though some
of my web searches suggested it might not be strictly legal.
...Seems to me the little juice those fridges pull you'd
be better off just using the trailer battery and figuring out
how to keep it charged up.
I would also think the fridge (Norcold N4000) has light electrical
use, but the 100 Ah LIon battery is down to 80 or less after a
half day of towing. I can't think of much else in the unit that
draws meaningful power while towing.
If I'm reading things right (from web searches), it seems the
fridge should run at somewhere in the 50-100 W range. Assuming
worst case 100 W for five hours, I think that's 6 Ah used, so the
battery should not be getting drawn down as much as I'm seeing.
Maybe my calculations are off base.
On the other hand, I seem to recall that the fridge has stopped
running after a modest (less than an hour) time on the 12 V
system. I suppose I need to check this out further.
Regardless, it seems pretty clear my Acadia tow vehicle is not
producing enough juice to help. Maybe my assumption that power
could be supplied by way of the seven pin connector is wrong.
...Save the gas for hot water and heat if you need it.
Yeah, makes sense, but the quick searches I've done suggest the
fridge should run for weeks on a standard tank, so that doesn't
seem like a few days should wipe it out.
FWIW, I think you've gone to the expense of installing a
Lithium battery in your unit, and we should go back to the
start here and help you work through this problem of getting
and keeping it charged.
Yeah, a Li Time 100 Ah battery.
...I am still recovering from surgery, and not in top form,
Thanks for the reminder, hope your recovery continues to proceed
well!
but this effort could be used here as a study in how to help
fellow RVers with similar problems. One way or another we
should come to some kind of consensus on what the group thinks
is a good way to solve this problem. There will be others like
Ted who are going to have the same questions.
LOL, you sound like some of the folks I work with in writing ISO
standards. Not that there's anything wrong with that. :)
The first problem is whether or not you can use the tow vehicle
to charge the trailer when moving from site to site. I assume
you would leave for any trip with it fully charged, so this
would be for mostly when packing up and going elsewhere. I
still think a DC-DC charger is your best bet here, and not as
complicated as it might initially appear.
Probably more affordable than you think too. We'll have to
look for good options on that. Once you have that, it could
also be used in an emergency to charge the trailer batteries
flatspotting, as well as using your generator.
Yep, I always start from home with everything fully charged. I
only have standard 110 outlets, so learned from experience that if
I run the trailer's AC it melts the plug of a light duty extension
cord. All seems to be okay with the larger gauge cord(s) I've
since picked up.
I do agree that beefing up the towing system feels like the best
option for me, not least because I could use it in a pinch to
charge the trailer battery when flatspotting. As I mentioned in
another post, the small generator I've used seems not worth it.
The car runs more quietly, and there wouldn't be the weight and
fumes we get from the generator.
I'm just a little daunted by the idea of installing additional
equipment in the car (convertor plus heavy gauge wiring to an
additional plug in at the rear of the vehicle).
Next, if your boon-docking, you need to get the battery charged
back up as it gets depleted. I know there were some additional
notes recently on what you have currently in the Lance, but I
was a little too under the weather to get into them too much.
I'll try and give a look tomorrow.
That said, it is my understanding you don't have a solar panel
of any type at the current time. So, we have to know if the
Lance does have a controller in it, just not hooked up, and if
it does have a plug in for the solar panel. I know you have
the generator you could use to charge the battery if you had
to, but to me the proper use of a solar panel and controller
that could keep the Lithium charged is the solution you should
be aiming for. Then, you'd only really use the generator if
you don't have shore power and need AC. On my unit it is
installed on the roof and keeps my pair of deep cycles fully
charged quite easily, with the fridge running too. I do like
the idea of having a portable panel that allows you to park the
Lance under a more shaded area and then place the panel more
out in the direct sunshine.
I think the trailer has only the Power Dynamics unit for power
management. It includes a setting for LIon batteries, but I don't
believe it would accomodate a solar panel without needing an
additional controller for the panel. It does have the solar on
the side connector, but I think a controller would be needed for
any panels I might use.
I'm also a little daunted by the notion of installing panels on
the roof. On the other hand, putting out panels after arriving at
camp would be playing catch up after the drain from a day of
towing.
Maybe I am just still under a little brain fog from the
procedure, but it just seems like we are getting into the weeds
and not being helpful recently. But, I do think we can all put
our heads together and help you make a good decision on this
battery charging problem of yours. It's a universal concern for
RVers.
Really appreciate your kind and thoughtful help here.
---snip---
So if I'm reading this right, the concept would be to use some
kind of portable power station as something like a backup for
the trailer's installed battery? Seems it would be handy, and
might be simplest to set up with solar panels.
IMO, this power station idea is not what you need. You already
have one, an expensive and capable one, with your lithium
battery. A solar setup is another thing. You just have to
figure out how to get the power to it. Answer the questions
posed above about what you have now and let's work through this
again, Ted.
That makes sense. I guess one thing that caught my eye with the
power station was the 110 V outlet. Other than the AC, we would
have to do without the microwave and the electric kettle for
coffee on 12 V only. We have to have our morning coffee (dark and
strong with an Aeropress), and I have yet to find a kettle that
could run on 12 V. We could use the stove and a tea kettle, I
guess.
Anyway, I think I answered all your questions, but maybe not in a
very concise way. Thanks again for the help!
