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Mahler Symphonie Nr. 5
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: Rafael Kubelik
Live recording (12 June 1981)
Audite 95.465
On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 17:50:28 +0000, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
Mahler Symphonie Nr. 5
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: Rafael Kubelik
Live recording (12 June 1981)
Audite 95.465
How about Kubelik/Concertgebouw 1951 on Tahra?
Mahler's Fifth Symphony was performed fairly often by
the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Willem Mengelberg
during the 1920s and 1930s; the last
performance was in the 1938/39 season.
Unfortunately, apart from the Adagietto (1926) no recordings wereKubelik begins the
made. In the years after Mengelberg until 1955, only Rafael Kubelik conducted the piece, and a wonderful live recording from 1951 has just
been released by Tahra (ref.: TAH 419; I paid EUR 16 at Kuijper
Klassiek here in Amsterdam).
The first movements unmistakably reveal the idiosyncratic sound and
style of the pre-war and early post-war Concertgebouw Orchestra --
lively and expressive, but neither sentimental nor pompous. Although
adagietto (9'24") without any of Mengelberg's trademark portamenti, he quickly proceeds towards a freely flowing interpretation, now and then reminiscent of the 1926 recording, which is continued throughout the--
finale.
The sound is above average in comparison with other live recordings
from the [early (RvG 10-7-2024)] 1950s. [Read: so-so.RvG 10-7-2024)]
By the way, I have modified my list of favorite recordings accordingly:
#1: Walter / New York Philharmonic (live, 1950)
#2: Klemperer / Concertgebouw (live, 1951)
#3: Haitink / Berlin Philharmonic
#4: Mengelberg / Concertgebouw (live, 1939)
#5: Kubelik / Concertgebouw (live, 1951)
#6: Boulez / Vienna Philharmonic
#7: Klemperer / Philharmonia
#8: ?
#9: Walter / Vienna Philharmonic (1938)
Das Lied von der Erde: Schuricht / Concertgebouw (live, 1939)
--
On 10/07/2024 05:27, Rachmaninoff wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jul 2024 17:50:28 +0000, Roland van Gaalen wrote:
Mahler Symphonie Nr. 5
Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: Rafael Kubelik
Live recording (12 June 1981)
Audite 95.465
How about Kubelik/Concertgebouw 1951 on Tahra?
I like it!
On 22 March 2002 I wrote:
<< On 23 February 2002 I wrote:
Mahler's Fifth Symphony was performed fairly often by
the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Willem Mengelberg
during the 1920s and 1930s; the last
performance was in the 1938/39 season.
This is not quite correct -- I discovered recently that Mengelberg
actually never conducted this piece (apart from the Adagietto) after
1930; there were performances in 1933 (4), 1934 (3), 1936 (2) and 1939
(2), but those were all under Bruno Walter.
Walter's interpretation was apparently rather different from
Mengelberg's:
"Walter was timed at one hour and five minutes, Mengelberg at one hour
and eighteen minutes [...] Mengelberg appeared to have the trumpet
soloist, D. Speets, make a drama of every single note in the
'Trauermarsch'. Walter let Speets's successor, Marinus Komst sr, play
less ominously and with more lyricism. While in Mengelberg's
interpretation every detail was scrutinized, with devotion to every note
of the Adagietto, Walter interpreted the symphony in an 'enthusiastic fresco-like style', and the fourth movement with a 'sensitively sung lyricism'."
Moreover
"Rafael Kubelik's performance was in line with Bruno Walter's and had
little to do with Mengelberg's impressive, colossal, tragic and
elaborated performances"
[quotations from: "New Sounds, New Century / Mahler's Fifth Symphony and
the
Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, ed. D. Mitchell (1997); the inner
quotations
are from a certain "Critical Edition"]
The above comparisons are from a contemporary perspective -- I think
that the Kubelik recording sounds wonderfully old-fashioned and fits in nicely with the orchestra's recorded legacy from the first half of the previous century.
Unfortunately, apart from the Adagietto (1926) no recordings werejust
made. In the years after Mengelberg until 1955, only Rafael Kubelik conducted the piece, and a wonderful live recording from 1951 has
been released by Tahra (ref.: TAH 419; I paid EUR 16 at Kuijper
Klassiek here in Amsterdam).
The first movements unmistakably reveal the idiosyncratic sound andKubelik begins the
style of the pre-war and early post-war Concertgebouw Orchestra --
lively and expressive, but neither sentimental nor pompous. Although
adagietto (9'24") without any of Mengelberg's trademark portamenti,he
quickly proceeds towards a freely flowing interpretation, now andthen
reminiscent of the 1926 recording, which is continued throughout the finale.
The sound is above average in comparison with other live recordings
from the [early (RvG 10-7-2024)] 1950s. [Read: so-so.RvG 10-7-2024)]
By the way, I have modified my list of favorite recordingsaccordingly:
#1: Walter / New York Philharmonic (live, 1950)
#2: Klemperer / Concertgebouw (live, 1951)
#3: Haitink / Berlin Philharmonic
#4: Mengelberg / Concertgebouw (live, 1939)
#5: Kubelik / Concertgebouw (live, 1951)
#6: Boulez / Vienna Philharmonic
#7: Klemperer / Philharmonia
#8: ?
#9: Walter / Vienna Philharmonic (1938)
Das Lied von der Erde: Schuricht / Concertgebouw (live, 1939)
--
--
Roland van Gaalen
The Netherlands
Is there a Mahler 5 that you are familiar with that seems to fit the description of the way Mengelberg conducted it?
Is there a Mahler 5 that you are familiar with that seems to fit the description of the way Mengelberg conducted it?
On 10/07/2024 19:32, Rachmaninoff wrote:
Is there a Mahler 5 that you are familiar with that seems to fit the
description of the way Mengelberg conducted it?
No. (NB: I am not an expert, just a listener without any training or background in music.)
The only Mahler recordings by Mengelberg known to exist are:
-Symphony #4
-Adagietto of Symphony #5
-Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen
According to the liner notes to TAHRA CD TAH 504, Mahler #1 conducted by Bruno Walter on 16 October 1947 may be influenced by Mengelberg's interpretation to some extent, in some respects, but not in some others.
I cannot judge this.
Concerning _Das Lied von der Erde_, Benjamin Maso posted this on rec.music.classical.recordings on 31 March 1999
[BEGINNING OF QUOTATION FROM MESSAGE BY BENJAMIN MASO ON rec.music.classsical.recordings DATED 31 MARCH 1999]
<< This afternoon I did a little research in the municipal archives of Amsterdam and found 10 reviews of the concerto of 5 oktober 1939 when Schuricht conducted Mahler's Lied von der Erde. Not without interest.
BACKGROUND.
The concerto scheduled for 5 oktober was the opening of the season 1939
-
1940. Of course it should have been conducted by Mengelberg, but being
ill
he cancelled a few days before - not for the first time. In the years
before
Bruno Walter and Pierre Monteux had replaced Mengelberg already more
than
once at the opening night, but this time they were not able to
themselves
free at such a short term.
The logical replacement should have been Van Beinum, but with the
outbreak of the war a general mobilization had been proclaimed and being
a
reservist he was under arms. Another problem was that Martin Oehmann and Kerstin Thorborg had already been engaged for Mahler's Lied and none of
the
other Dutch conductors were considered to be capable enough to conduct
such
a complicated work. So the direction of the Concertgebouw decided to ask
Carl Schuricht, who as a guest conductor of the orchestra's of The Hague
and
Utrecht was temporary living in Holland.
The Dutch papers weren't very happy about this choice. They expressed
their doubts of Schuricht's experience with Mahler's work. "We are
certain
that Schuricht doesn't have this work on his repertoire since 1933",
sneered
the socialist newspaper Het Volk. That was a problem indeed. Schuricht, Generalmusikdirektor of Wiesbaden, was extremely pleased about the invitation, but was prudent enough to ask permission from the German authorities to conduct a work of a Jewish composer. Which he received.
THE PERFORMANCE.
Das Lied von der Erde was very well known in Amsterdam. It had been
performed several times under the baton of Mengelberg and Bruno Walter.
So
it was obvious that most critics made a comparison with the performances
they had heard before. This of course is for us the most interesting
part of
their reviews. Is Schuricht's recording indeed the closest we can get to Mengelberg's interpretation of Das Lied von der Erde? If we believe the
Dutch critics of 1939 the answer is: yes and no. See for yourself: "Schuricht, who has the same view on Mahler as Mengelberg..."
(Standaard)
"The performance of Das Lied von der Erde was insofar curious that it
showed a view principally different from the view with which prof. dr. Mengelberg and also Walter have made us familiar. Schuricht is seeing
more
the broad outlines than the detail, he is just making music instead of romanticizing, with the consequence that he is sparse with rubato's and expressivo's. In some respects it had its advantages, because the hypersensitive and theatratical elements are less accentuated, but one
is
wondering if the most characteristic aspects of the work don't disappear
that way (...). The real Mahler we didn't see" (Handelsblad)
"We're used to a more impassioned performance of the same music ... The
deep core of Mahler's music remained absent. This style of maximal
expressivo demands a intensive care for each detail. With Schuricht it
was
only a well polished exterior... " (Nieuwe Rotterdamse Courant)
" .... concerning artistic mentality Schuricht is close to Mengelberg.
His Mahler interpretation is therefore spiritually oriented the same way
as
"ours". It has the same love of sound, the same kinds of emotion, of joy
and
of sorrow. Its practice, its realization runs parallell to our
tradition.
Under the baton of Schuricht the orchestra can therefore play much more
as
it is used to than under Walter - for this art the very antipode of Mengelberg ( ...) Yesterday's performance differed only in details from Mengelberg's: the best definition is `reflection'". (...) which also
means
it was missing the three dimensions, the personality of Mengelberg's evocation" (De Telegraaf)
" ... in the Concertgebouw we are used to a Lied von der Erde with more tension, charged with tragedy and sorrowful humour, a more saturated
sound,
more vigourous tempi, a broader elan, an intenser pulse" (De Tijd)
"Although [Schuricht] didn't succeed to give it the same tension and expansiveness as Mengelberg, we must express our appreciation that at
such a
short term he succeeded to establish such a good relation with the
orchestra
...." (De Nederlander)
"It was a clever and smooth performance, but one missed with these
deliberate tempi the sharp tension, the grand elan, the dazzling vision
we
are spoiled with" (Gooi en Eemlander)
Concerning the singers, the critics were much more on the same line.
Oehmann was good, but not an Urlus. Thorborg was also good, but being a
mezzo instead of the usual contralto lacked the proper voice for Das
Lied.
They probably would have shuddered if they had heard Jessey Norman,
Janet
Baker or Waltraud Meier.
THE INCIDENT: "Deutschland ueber Alles, Herr Schuricht".
Not all the critics reported the incident and some of them hadn't
understood what had been said. But most of them agreed in concerned "a
lady, or rather a member of the female sex" (De Telegraaf) or even "a bespectacled young lady" (De Courant) sitting in one of the front seats
who
stood up just before the alto should begin the second part of der
Abschied,
walked to the rostrum of the conductor, said calmly "Deutschland ueber
alles, Herr Schuricht" (with a clear Dutch accent as can be heard on the recording), and left the hall.
Why? Didn't she agree that is was Schuricht who was engaged? Didn't she
like Mahler? Was it a protest against Nazi-Germany? Or wanted she to
rebuke
Schuricht because of he was conducting music of a Jewish composer? None
of
the critics was sure, but most of them simply wrote that nobody
understood
what she was saying, and that she must have been a bit delirious.
Some critics noted that Schuricht hesitated before continuing, another
wrote he looked back and shaked his head. But according to another
critic he
became deathly pale. And the audience? "... by means of the applause it
made
perfectly clear that it doens't want to have anything to do with
politics in
the concerthall of a neutral country" (De Standaard).
A memorable evening, but it would have been much more memorable if
Mengelberg hadn't been ill and instead of a curious incident we would
have a
recording of Das Lied von der Erde conducted by what might have been its
best interpreter. >>
[END OF QUOTATION FROM MESSAGE BY BENJAMIN MASO on rec.music.classical.recordings DATED 31 MARCH 1999]