• Re: Outdoor Welding

    From Richard Smith@null@void.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 9 08:14:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1qzyzowar.fsf@void.com...

    Page on the job http://weldsmith.co.uk/tech/welding/weld_tales/231215_ybj_tpile_z5_z8.html

    -----------------------------------------

    They found the right man for the job.

    I'm having trouble analyzing to learn from this. What is the load
    direction on the inner ring that your weld must resist?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2025/06/17/celebrity-cruise-ship-breaks-moorings-alaska-juneau/84241831007/

    This was an installation for a certain customer.
    The logic one infers you are trying to apply for a civilian structure
    might not apply here. ...


    Ships can break free of moorings.
    It seems the crew had that exigency covered, as they should have done,
    and swung into action.

    Another I have met is having the tidal flow in estuary work enough to
    pry the end of the vessel out, presenting an ever-increasing vane to the tide-flow - then you have to cast-off and work out what to do next.
    Happened when I was on a vessel "just looking pretty" and making up the
    legal crew-number for the few minutes. Having worked as a steel-erector
    (N.Am. "ironworker") I thought I could do the necessary, and the crew of
    the barge we had to return to talked me through it as the tug held
    position nearby. Then in we came with me on the foredeck of the
    tugboat, threw the loop, round-turned the bollard on the foredeck, ran
    out the line until they called, and I smoothly and progressively tailed
    the rope halting the tugboat, then leaned back hard and gripped my heals against the deck, and the tugboat skipper put the engine full-ahead and
    turned the rudder 45deg. to thrust the stern of the vessel firm against
    the barge against the strong tidal flow from astern. The barge crew
    came about and made-fast, until the tug skipper could go to neutral
    (smaller craft so fore-neutral-aft gearbox) and I was free to release
    the tailing of the round-turn and tie-off with that line.
    After that, I could run-out the line feeding line into the round-turn
    around the bollard while looking at the skipper in the wheelhouse, and
    when he nodded I'd start tailing the line and bring the vessel to a stop against the engine.

    *** If you do this, stand at 90deg. / right-angle to - to-the-side-of -
    the line you are tailing around the bollard, so if the line breaks under tension you are not in-line with the elastic recoil - which can be
    lethal ***

    In a gale I have seen a tugboat spend all day idling against the side of
    a bulker as a "just in case".
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  • From Richard Smith@null@void.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 9 08:17:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message news:1043b3k$3hded$1@dont-email.me...

    I'm having trouble analyzing to learn from this. What is the load direction on the inner ring that your weld must resist? ---------------------------------

    More specifically I assume that if the inner ring bears weight the
    upper weld could fail in tension (+shear?) across its throat area. The
    lower weld might shear along the column so punch press math could
    apply, or to the extent the fit is loose or the column can expand and
    the ring shrink the shear could be along a shorter line angled toward
    the weld throat. Does that make sense?

    If the load is a mooring line I'd have to know how it's attached.

    I have similar geometry in two recent projects, one a shop-made
    stainless solar array thrust bearing with the ring retained in the
    tube by a circle of screws, their inner ends turned smooth and loosely fitting in a groove in the ring. The load on the cap passes through
    the races and balls to the ring below, so the outer tube is only
    shielding.

    The other is a thick sleeve with an integral ring inside threaded
    internally. It adapts this to a non-HF floor jack. https://www.harborfreight.com/steel-floor-jack-cross-beam-64051.html

    Per previous - leave-alone this line of thought. It will be designed
    for "special" load-conditions.
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  • From Richard Smith@null@void.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 9 08:24:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1qzyzowar.fsf@void.com...

    This topic has journey productively far from its start with "Outdoor Welding".

    On that topic...

    SMAW (Shielded Metal Arc Welding) - "stick" welding - is "the only one".

    Okay I have never done / tried self-shielded flux-cored-wire.

    * when you are outdoors, the equipment is too sensitive and expensive
    for the rough-and-ready work typical of site work. eg. how well would
    a wire-feeder do if splashed with seawater (?)

    * the wire rusts then presumably won't feed - so presumably it can only
    be used in site conditions when you have a "volume" job where you use
    reels at a time

    So it's "stick" welding for most site work.

    ------------------------------------ https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=1770

    https://www.welderdestiny.com/oil-rig-welder.html

    I got to 150A for SMAW 7018 vertical-up fillet welds on the likes of 20mm plate.
    That is quite productive.
    Given tide-windows and time, then things like aborting quickly because a
    sqall could be seen coming in, it was frequently necessary to throw the
    welding cables (stinger and return) and the gas-axe (oxy-fuel torch)
    into the sea for the construction barge crew to haul aboard while the
    crane collected me fast before "weathervaning" to the incoming wind.
    I doubt any wire-feed system would like being thrown into the sea...
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  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 9 06:50:20 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1qzyphm47.fsf@void.com...

    This was an installation for a certain customer.
    The logic one infers you are trying to apply for a civilian structure
    might not apply here. ...

    -------------------------------------------

    Fine, I'm no longer even cleared for rumors.

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  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Jul 9 09:53:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1qzyphm47.fsf@void.com...

    Another I have met is having the tidal flow in estuary work enough to
    pry the end of the vessel out, presenting an ever-increasing vane to the tide-flow - then you have to cast-off and work out what to do next.
    Happened when I was on a vessel "just looking pretty" and making up the
    legal crew-number for the few minutes. Having worked as a steel-erector
    (N.Am. "ironworker") I thought I could do the necessary, and the crew of
    the barge we had to return to talked me through it as the tug held
    position nearby. Then in we came with me on the foredeck of the
    tugboat, threw the loop, round-turned the bollard on the foredeck, ran
    out the line until they called, and I smoothly and progressively tailed
    the rope halting the tugboat, then leaned back hard and gripped my heals against the deck, and the tugboat skipper put the engine full-ahead and
    turned the rudder 45deg. to thrust the stern of the vessel firm against
    the barge against the strong tidal flow from astern. The barge crew
    came about and made-fast, until the tug skipper could go to neutral
    (smaller craft so fore-neutral-aft gearbox) and I was free to release
    the tailing of the round-turn and tie-off with that line.
    After that, I could run-out the line feeding line into the round-turn
    around the bollard while looking at the skipper in the wheelhouse, and
    when he nodded I'd start tailing the line and bring the vessel to a stop against the engine.

    *** If you do this, stand at 90deg. / right-angle to - to-the-side-of -
    the line you are tailing around the bollard, so if the line breaks under tension you are not in-line with the elastic recoil - which can be
    lethal ***

    In a gale I have seen a tugboat spend all day idling against the side of
    a bulker as a "just in case". ----------------------------------------------------
    ***The other safety consideration to mention here is not getting an ankle caught in a loop.

    I've watched that done and follow your description. I think I should have hands-on training before trying it on more than a rowboat myself, I use tree trunks for that type of rope snubbing when logging but friction on iron or smooth aluminum is different and has to be enough the first time. https://www.ropelab.com.au/figure-8-descenders/

    On Titanic a single cross bollard provided enough friction for two crewmen
    to manually lower one end of the 5 ton lifeboats, the second feeding the untangled line to the first. There were electric winches to hoist it back up in a drill but in an emergency electricity could suddenly fail.

    Unfortunately the ship carried less than half the number of deckhands needed to lower (4), row (4) and steer (1) all 16 ready lifeboats and many weren't experienced with the very new and different Welin davits meant to launch multiple boats so fumbling plus passenger reluctance delayed the launches. Stokers from the two flooded boiler rooms and female passengers crewed some boats, one had been standing next to and testified about the aft extent of
    the hull ruptures.

    The ship's officers were struggling to muscle the last spare lifeboats to
    the davits when the uppermost deck submerged under them, and some survived
    by balancing on the inverted hull of one. Another spare lifeboat was found a month later with 3 decomposing remains in it.

    I haven't seen nearly as thorough descriptions of actions on any other
    famous sinking ship, like Lusitania, Bismarck and Scharnhorst, or Titanic's sister Britannic, which was modified to correct Titanic's assumed
    deficiencies yet sank much faster when a WW1 mine caused similar flooding.

    http://www.combinedfleet.com/shoksink.htm
    "On the flight deck aft, the men waited in supernatural calm as the chiefs
    and officers made their head count, even though explosions continued to rock the ship and the flight deck was now starting to slant perceptibly
    downwards. ...
    [4 terrific explosions] ...
    The men gathered aft were caught completely off-guard--they had assumed they had several minutes to evacuate; in reality they now had only seconds. They were sent tumbling and sliding down the flight deck as Shokaku's shattered
    bow plunged under the waves.
    ...
    Screaming and frantically trying to grab anything to hold onto, the mass of humanity on Shokaku's flight deck aft slid down the incline to their deaths and a "fiery hell" as they fell headlong into the open and blazing No.3 elevator into the cavernous inferno that had been the hangar. Survivors already in the water were horrified and the sight of the white-clad mass streaming down to incineration in the elevator pit would remain with them
    for the rest of their lives."

    In Halifax NS the harbor tour boat docked by coming in fast straight at the quay, turning 90 degrees at the last moment and briefly reversing engines to kill forward motion, and letting the wave the side of the boat pushed up
    stop it in just the right place beside the stone wall. I practiced that in
    my canoe until I could make it ride its wave up onto the beach sideways.
    jsw

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