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"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1frdddo17.fsf@void.com...
Hi all
I was about to do another whimsical post, but then remembering female abilities to hunt information, went did a web-search first.
AI came back with this:
A "coal iron oxygen gas-turbine steam plant combined cycle" refers to
an Integrated Coal Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC) system,
specifically an oxygen-blown IGCC, where coal is gasified using
oxygen (instead of air) to produce a clean fuel gas. This fuel gas
then powers a gas turbine for electricity, and the heat from the gas turbine's exhaust is used in a steam turbine to generate more
electricity, forming a combined cycle that increases overall
efficiency and reduces emissions compared to traditional coal plants.
Find everyone is already there, searching on "IGCC".
It's "too abvious".
I could see that with "tonnage" oxygen, such plant is feasible.
I visualised using fluid circuit of Fe-C to dissolve coal, clean (desulphurise?) and react C with O2.
Exhaust is pure CO2. Sequester to exhausted gas fields or use in mega greenhouses to grow biomass.
Obvious advantage - a coal heap is the only way of securely having a
year's supply of fuel. Even if you have no coal yourself, in fair
weather you keep your stocks high, and if things go wrong you have a
long time to get alternative solutions in place.
Japan built new coal-fired power-stations after the Fukishima nuclear accident even though they have no coal source themselves because they realised they need a "buffer".
Urmm - it's difficult for someone deciding your "democratic
credentials are not good enough" to deny you your coal-pile - you
simply gather it back up again. Destroy the power-station and not
many will be convinced the party who did it is your friend...
Lot of national security arguments in its favour.
Anyone have any experience of this?
Best wishes
------------------------------------
I have no hands-on experience but (because) I've studied it with the
help of my chemistry degree. Much is possible, what's practical
depends on economics, availability and waste disposal. It's largely a
problem in chemical engineering, a separate degree. Everything close
to practical and a lot that isn't has already been tried, much in
Germany during WW1 and 2.
I think coal gasification is too complex and maintenance intensive for
a small scale and I don't want to become a full time power plant
engineer. Wood is demanding enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_gas
Wood can be distilled in simple apparatus the same way, and was used
to power cars during WW2. The problem is tarry byproducts. There is no
cheap and easy source of hydrogen for the processes that turn coal
into gas or liquid hydrocarbons for fuel, though it's done for more
valuable products. Hydrogen is merely a troublesome storage and
transport medium for electric energy sourced from solar or hydro. High voltage DC transmission lines may be a better way, like your links to
France and Holland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_photosynthesis
"Artificially photosynthesized fuel would be a carbon-neutral source
of energy, but it has never been demonstrated in any practical
sense. The economics of artificial photosynthesis are noncompetitive."
Personally I have the other storable solid fuel, self-gathered
firewood in metal roofed sheds and some solar, both practical on a
home scale, and the smokeless Jotul-copy wood stove is somewhat useful
for cooking, hot water, annealing and hardening. The price of LiFePO4 batteries has fallen low enough to avoid the hassles of other types
and solar panels are nearing $0.50 per Watt. I use laptops as
recording TVs and power them and an Alpicool T60 inverter
fridge/freezer from solar charged batteries, the AC-only gear such as monitors and the TV antenna amp from a $50 Bestek 300W sine
inverter. Most other DC appliances are too expensive and like the
microwave and coffee pot not used enough to cost much. I dry laundry outdoors, under a 4' deck roof overhang for 2-3 days in damp
weather. In winter the laundry freeze-dries. Air conditioning costs me
around $20 a month for July and August, not worth a large capital
investment to change. They and the window fans for cool nights are on Kill-A-Watt meters.
Wood stove kettle hot water can be poured into the washing machine. I modified garden sprayers with sink spray hoses for hot showers when
the power grid is down. They stay filled by the door to put out brush
fires.
I don't have $$ cable TV or wired Internet, the reason for my 10GB
monthly cellular data limit on a $35 plan. So far I haven't had to buy
extra data.
The compromises in steam locomotive design illustrate the tradeoffs
between efficiency and complexity. They rarely condensed the steam as
was done on ships to decrease fuel and clean fresh water consumption,
because air condensers were too bulky and fragile. Instead they used
the cylinder exhaust to increase firebox draft because their
smokestacks had to be short and inefficient to clear bridges and
tunnels. https://forum.trains.com/t/simple-expansion-verses-compound-expansion-steam-locomotives/242914/16
jsw
Hi all
I was about to do another whimsical post, but then remembering female abilities to hunt information, went did a web-search first.
AI came back with this:
A "coal iron oxygen gas-turbine steam plant combined cycle" refers to
an Integrated Coal Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC) system,
specifically an oxygen-blown IGCC, where coal is gasified using
oxygen (instead of air) to produce a clean fuel gas. This fuel gas
then powers a gas turbine for electricity, and the heat from the gas
turbine's exhaust is used in a steam turbine to generate more
electricity, forming a combined cycle that increases overall
efficiency and reduces emissions compared to traditional coal plants.
Find everyone is already there, searching on "IGCC".
It's "too abvious".
I could see that with "tonnage" oxygen, such plant is feasible.
I visualised using fluid circuit of Fe-C to dissolve coal, clean (desulphurise?) and react C with O2.
Exhaust is pure CO2. Sequester to exhausted gas fields or use in mega greenhouses to grow biomass.
Obvious advantage - a coal heap is the only way of securely having a
year's supply of fuel. Even if you have no coal yourself, in fair
weather you keep your stocks high, and if things go wrong you have a
long time to get alternative solutions in place.
Japan built new coal-fired power-stations after the Fukishima nuclear accident even though they have no coal source themselves because they realised they need a "buffer".
Urmm - it's difficult for someone deciding your "democratic
credentials are not good enough" to deny you your coal-pile - you
simply gather it back up again. Destroy the power-station and not
many will be convinced the party who did it is your friend...
Lot of national security arguments in its favour.
Anyone have any experience of this?
Best wishes
A "coal iron oxygen gas-turbine steam plant combined cycle" refers to----------------------------------------
an Integrated Coal Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC) system,
Firewood heat is said to require 5 acres to harvest it continuously for
one house. My improvements have cut my consumption to less than half the norm others with similar houses report around here, 1/3 in mild winters.
Firewood heat is said to require 5 acres to harvest it continuously for
one house. My improvements have cut my consumption to less than half the norm others with similar houses report around here, 1/3 in mild winters.
"Snag"-a wrote in message news:108pg8v$1aioh$1@dont-email.me...
On 8/28/2025 6:41 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
Firewood heat is said to require 5 acres to harvest it continuously
for one house. My improvements have cut my consumption to less than
half the norm others with similar houses report around here, 1/3 in
mild winters.
-a Just out of curiosity how many square feet are you heating and about
how many cords for an average winter . With what my neighbor has given
me (cleanup from storm damage in town) I'll have around 4+ cords of
mostly red and white oak with some hickory . I plan on trying to get a
couple more and I'm heating about 1500 sf . Everybody here is prepping
for a hard winter ... we're all getting our tractors set up for snow
removal and making sure things are in good repair . I may actually need
those chains I've got for the SUV and my pickup .
Snag
---------------------------------------------
My house is a common local design, 24' x 42' (1008 sq') with original electric heat and good-for-1970 insulation, we were promised cheap
nuclear power, ha ha. Others tell me they burn 5 cords a year, I
generally use somewhat less than 2 to keep it near 60F and wear lined
shirts and pants. Their cords may be whatever they were told, mine are measured.
A cord is 4' x 4' x 8', 128 cubic feet when split or around 100 easier
to measure and figure square feet if cut 15"-16" long. I store it on standard 40" x 48" pallets so 16" gives 3 rows the longer way. The 16"
cut length guide is a spring-loaded wire on a base that straps to the
saw's front handle, largely rebuilt because it broke too easily, another lathe rescue.
An 8x10 shed 3 pallets wide and 2 deep, 120" x 96", makes efficient use
of 8' galvy roof panels and 8' and 10' roof beams if it tapers inward
for eave overhang. Stacking 6 rows deep half way up and offset to 5 rows above gives a stable pile as the wood dries, shrinks and shifts. I discovered the hard way that longer and higher rows may become unstable
as they dry and added intermediate uprights or longer depth-wise tie
logs to those sheds. The wall covering is HF camo tarps which last 5-10 years depending on what they rub on, rug scraps help as does not cutting longer than 16". They can be opened in good weather for drying.
The main house improvements are doubling the attic insulation crosswise
and making press-in window inserts to give 4 layers. I rebuilt the deteriorating window exteriors and replaced the doors and sealed them
more carefully. I closed air leaks upstairs until the humidity started
to rise, an indication of the air exchange rate. The ground-level
basement still leaks because the stove there needs unrestricted air for
good chimney draft to make the Jotul 118 clone burn smoke-free. Like a
hot air balloon only the top needs to be sealed.
The road crews here are skilled and well equipped and heavy snow isn't a problem beyond the effort to clear driveways, usually the roads are
clear and dry by noon the day after a storm. Our heating systems are
good to perhaps -20F, maybe lower overnight. The danger is ice storms
that drop trees onto houses, roads and power lines. Only ice storms
close the roads, then we'd play on them on our dirt bikes. I prepared
for a week without power and then found I had to up it to two weeks, so Covid wasn't an issue. The limits appears to be sufficient refrigeration
and warm showers, both actually easier in winter than summer.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1frdb98w6.fsf@void.com...
The Mediterranean Sea is the one (and only?) with the temperature which
is far away from the modal temperature.
It's enclosed tiny entrance through the Straights of Gibraltar / The
Gates of Heracles. The global ocean currents don't feature inside.
We know here in Cornwall - the Navy had a couple of supply ships built
for them, and that Pacific Ocean nation didn't know that.
-----------------------------------
That's surprising, naval stories from the Pacific mention 80F ocean temperatures. Shipwreck survivors could survive floating for
days. Google AI claims 25-30C.
The first colonists here expected climate similar to European
latitudes and were rudely, sometimes lethally surprised by the much
wider extremes.
Others tell me they burn 5 cords a year, I generally use somewhat less
than 2 to keep it near 60F and wear lined shirts and pants.
That's surprising, naval stories from the Pacific mention 80F ocean temperatures. Shipwreck survivors could survive floating for
days. Google AI claims 25-30C.
"Snag"-a wrote in message news:108q22o$1gasg$1@dont-email.me...
-a I'm using a base of used steel roofing , pad is 12 feet by about 30 .
I cover my piles with a tarp , sides left open and I leave a space
between rows for air circulation .
------------------------
I tried tarps and several other unsuccessful ways to keep the wood dry
and support a heavy snow load before reluctantly investing in the
corrugated steel roofing panels on heavy table-like frames made partly
of logs. My property is mostly forest that drops rotted branches which
dent but rarely puncture the galvy roofing. I restore it with a plastic hammer over a water pipe anvil on sawhorses. At first I screwed the
panels down as recommended but that hindered re-use elsewhere after straightening, so now I screw one down-turned edge to the beams to
prevent shifting and bolt the corners together, a screwed-down edge to
an overlapping free one. Various scrap tied over the top prevents the
wind from lifting them and the edge and corner holes don't leak onto
shed contents when moved elsewhere. Many tiedowns are the warped and
twisted PT cull from HD and Lowe's.
On 8/28/2025 7:47 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Snag"-a wrote in message news:108q22o$1gasg$1@dont-email.me...
-a-a I'm using a base of used steel roofing , pad is 12 feet by about 30 . >> I cover my piles with a tarp , sides left open and I leave a space
between rows for air circulation .
------------------------
I tried tarps and several other unsuccessful ways to keep the wood dry
and support a heavy snow load before reluctantly investing in the
corrugated steel roofing panels on heavy table-like frames made partly
of logs. My property is mostly forest that drops rotted branches which
dent but rarely puncture the galvy roofing. I restore it with a
plastic hammer over a water pipe anvil on sawhorses. At first I
screwed the panels down as recommended but that hindered re-use
elsewhere after straightening, so now I screw one down-turned edge to
the beams to prevent shifting and bolt the corners together, a
screwed-down edge to an overlapping free one. Various scrap tied over
the top prevents the wind from lifting them and the edge and corner
holes don't leak onto shed contents when moved elsewhere. Many
tiedowns are the warped and twisted PT cull from HD and Lowe's.
-a If we get over 3" of snow here the whole fuckin' county shuts down . Seriously , these people just ain't equipped to deal with snow . Where I grew up (Box Elder County Utah) 2-3 feet on the ground on the valley
floor wasn't unusual . Last winter we got 7-8" from one storm that shut everything down for a week . My biggest problem was that I hadn't
dismounted the mower deck from Rusty and it was dragging in the snow
beyond the ends of the front blade . The 4WD Yanmar ain't gonna have
that problem ... I just realized I think I have a set of chains that
will fit the front wheels of the Yanmar! Great news in case we get ice . "Whither thy front wheels go , the rest will follow as surely as day
follows night" .
On 8/28/2025 6:40 PM, Snag wrote:
On 8/28/2025 7:47 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Snag"-a wrote in message news:108q22o$1gasg$1@dont-email.me...
-a-a I'm using a base of used steel roofing , pad is 12 feet by about 30 . >>> I cover my piles with a tarp , sides left open and I leave a space
between rows for air circulation .
------------------------
I tried tarps and several other unsuccessful ways to keep the wood
dry and support a heavy snow load before reluctantly investing in the
corrugated steel roofing panels on heavy table-like frames made
partly of logs. My property is mostly forest that drops rotted
branches which dent but rarely puncture the galvy roofing. I restore
it with a plastic hammer over a water pipe anvil on sawhorses. At
first I screwed the panels down as recommended but that hindered
re-use elsewhere after straightening, so now I screw one down-turned
edge to the beams to prevent shifting and bolt the corners together,
a screwed-down edge to an overlapping free one. Various scrap tied
over the top prevents the wind from lifting them and the edge and
corner holes don't leak onto shed contents when moved elsewhere. Many
tiedowns are the warped and twisted PT cull from HD and Lowe's.
-a-a If we get over 3" of snow here the whole fuckin' county shuts down
. Seriously , these people just ain't equipped to deal with snow .
Where I grew up (Box Elder County Utah) 2-3 feet on the ground on the
valley floor wasn't unusual . Last winter we got 7-8" from one storm
that shut everything down for a week . My biggest problem was that I
hadn't dismounted the mower deck from Rusty and it was dragging in the
snow beyond the ends of the front blade . The 4WD Yanmar ain't gonna
have that problem ... I just realized I think I have a set of chains
that will fit the front wheels of the Yanmar! Great news in case we
get ice . "Whither thy front wheels go , the rest will follow as
surely as day follows night" .
Utah is something.-a I rolled in to Salt Lake to join up with an outfit I worked for in Early September once.-a I got a hotel room for the night,
and when I looked out the window in the morning there was snow or ice
(not sure which, but it looked like snow) on all the roof tops.-a For
Utah, Salt Lake isn't even cold country.
In the low lands I'm used to we don't usually even see any jacket
weather until around Halloween.
On 8/28/2025 6:40 PM, Snag wrote:
If we get over 3" of snow here the whole fuckin' county shuts down
Utah is something. I rolled in to Salt Lake to join up with an outfit I worked for in Early September once. I got a hotel room for the night, and when I looked out the window in the morning there was snow or ice (not
sure which, but it looked like snow) on all the roof tops. For Utah, Salt Lake isn't even cold country.
In the low lands I'm used to we don't usually even see any jacket weather until around Halloween.
"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m14itr1bd7.fsf@void.com...
"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:
That's surprising, naval stories from the Pacific mention 80F ocean
temperatures. Shipwreck survivors could survive floating for
days. Google AI claims 25-30C.
I stand corrected.
---------------------------------------
Maybe not. Asians can be very unaware of the West, as we can them. Perhaps >the specifications omitted things assumed obvious.
I worked with Asian engineers in the 80's and we had to be cautious of the >cultural differences, for example whether the talker or listener is >responsible for understanding. They wouldn't ask for clarification, just nod >"hai" and then do it their way.
Perhaps the specifications omitted things assumed obvious.
A notorious example was the ambiguous Japanese response to FDR'ssurrender demand of July 1945 that was taken as a firm rejection which resolved the A-bomb question,