From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

Two questions I wanted to ask:
* Overall does it look good?
* what wheels should I use?

Overall:

Have friend with lathe, milling-machine, plenty of stock, etc.
Hence design should be achievable.

Already using electrical Variable Frequency Drive - no need to provide mechanical means to change speed.

I propose the gearbox (with motor) is "free" on the shaft with "only"
a moments / torque resisting connection from the motor feet to the
machine frame.


Wheels:

The two on one shaft, closer side in the sketch, are driven.
Need to transmit torque to the rod-mill shell.

I looked through catalogue(s)
eg.
https://www.castors-online.co.uk

Find would be wanting polyurethane tyre'ed wheels as slightly
conformant and likely increase grip. Rubber would be fine too (?).

Problem for this intended purpose is all have roller-bearing insert
for "free-wheeling" on a fixed tubular mounting.

I need those two wheels to be fixed onto the shaft - "locked" to the
shaft.
Suggestions?


Regards,
Rich S
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/1/2025 9:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

Two questions I wanted to ask:
* Overall does it look good?
* what wheels should I use?

Overall:

Have friend with lathe, milling-machine, plenty of stock, etc.
Hence design should be achievable.

Already using electrical Variable Frequency Drive - no need to provide mechanical means to change speed.

I propose the gearbox (with motor) is "free" on the shaft with "only"
a moments / torque resisting connection from the motor feet to the
machine frame.

Wheels:

The two on one shaft, closer side in the sketch, are driven.
Need to transmit torque to the rod-mill shell.

I looked through catalogue(s)
eg.
https://www.castors-online.co.uk

Find would be wanting polyurethane tyre'ed wheels as slightly
conformant and likely increase grip. Rubber would be fine too (?).

Problem for this intended purpose is all have roller-bearing insert
for "free-wheeling" on a fixed tubular mounting.

I need those two wheels to be fixed onto the shaft - "locked" to the
shaft.
Suggestions?

Regards,
Rich S

Use 2 shafts coupled by a belt or chain . Your wheels can be
immobilized by injecting the bearings with epoxy resin . Locked to the
shafts with shaft retaining loctite .
Alternate suggestion : Use 2 pairs of cogged pulleys with enough
slack in the belts to form a "saddle" for the drum to ride in .
--
Snag
We live in a time where intelligent people
are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 8/1/2025 9:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there
New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design
http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg >> Two questions I wanted to ask:
* Overall does it look good?
* what wheels should I use?
...
Regards,
Rich S

Use 2 shafts coupled by a belt or chain . Your wheels can be
immobilized by injecting the bearings with epoxy resin . Locked to
the shafts with shaft retaining loctite .
Alternate suggestion : Use 2 pairs of cogged pulleys with enough
slack in the belts to form a "saddle" for the drum to ride in .

Hi there

Friend helping is very opposed to belt-drives.
He comes from and works in a commercial marine environment. A slipping
or broken belt would mean death if you were trying to ride-out a storm.
Someone else I independently know had to motor heading 30 hours heading
to the Atlantic because there was not a moment they dared to turn the
bow away from the weather so they could turn and run for their home
port.
I see where they are formed.

But he does have a very good lathe, very good milling machine, etc.
"The dream spec." is there to be had.

I would have had a shaft with a wheel mounted to each end, and a
belt-drive to a pulley in the middle, between the bearings.

He did give me my "Mark 1" rod-mill - which is significant.

Thanks for the idea of locking the wheels on with glue.
Just not worth quibbling - get the mass produced item and pour in glue. However;
Shaft diameter going into gearbox is something like 20mm - and
presumably wheels would need to press over something about that
diameter.

What I did not say:

Size of wheels - is constrained

[using my function]
(mill-crit-speed-familiar-units 220e-3 40e-3) ;; 99.69758329725619 ;; RPM
So 100RPM would have my mill "centrifuging".

You might want to run up to 70% of critical speed - you could have a
shell configured as a ball-mill.

So that is 70RPM for the mill shell.

UK mains is 50Hz and motor runs at 1500PRM
However; Variable Frequency Drive will go up to 60Hz, giving 1800RPM

Have gearbox 15:1

(/f 1800 15) ;; 120.0 ;; RPM - the fastest the drive-shaft can turn.

70RPM of mill with 240mm outside dia. the wheels are working on...

(* (/f 70 120) 240) ;; 140.0 ;; mm dia.
140mm dia. is the smallest drive wheel which can be used.

So 150mm diameter wheel looks good if 140dia wheel not available.
Given induction motor's presumed typical phase slippage - 150dia
wheel...

The gearbox has a "female" coupling taking an 18mm diameter shaft.
The drive shaft will be likely 20mm diameter - turned-down to 18mm and
keyway milled for the gearbox. The 20mm diameter is what the wheels
would need to mount on.

Does this take us to a different solution?

My friend repairs and replaces engines, makes custom machines, etc.,
etc.
The solution can be "precision".

Rgds Rich S.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

For what it's worth - updated webpage presenting where trying to go with
the rod-mill project.

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/min/250722_sk_rodmill_mech.html
"Rod-mill mechanism - 22July2025 sketch"

I was visualising 3inch / 75mm SHS with wall thickness about 3mm for the "frame".

I have posted the sketch in there before.


In broader picture; and thinking of some advice given on here...


I am glad of advice. Doing my Doctorate and other projects I would
bring a sketch to the machine-shop - which was the best way of
explaining what I was thinking of - and they would advise, while
questioning me about the purpose of the details, on how it would really
be much better done.
I have though already been told by a marine engineer that the design see
"makes complete sense".

I do need that counsel - in this first instance.

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
IF I know what to ask for... Counsel in the first instance (but then
become self-reliant(?)).
Then - it would be good for me to simply get into the outbuilding and
"get on with it". More advantageous than the possibility of picking-up
more good counsel doing things in a collaboration.

I have ore waiting to be ground, and my "Mark 1/2" rod-mill is in pieces
in someone else's workshop a couple of hours drive away.

All this is causing me to connect in my mind to good times when I was
the "go for it" innovator. This version of me needs the cobwebs
dusted-off. Striding back in "resurrected" would be rather good :-)

Best wishes,
Rich Smith
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

For what it's worth - updated webpage presenting where trying to go with
the rod-mill project.

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/min/250722_sk_rodmill_mech.html
"Rod-mill mechanism - 22July2025 sketch"

I was visualising 3inch / 75mm SHS with wall thickness about 3mm for the "frame".

I have posted the sketch in there before.


In broader picture; and thinking of some advice given on here...


I am glad of advice. Doing my Doctorate and other projects I would
bring a sketch to the machine-shop - which was the best way of
explaining what I was thinking of - and they would advise, while
questioning me about the purpose of the details, on how it would really
be much better done.
I have though already been told by a marine engineer that the design see
"makes complete sense".

I do need that counsel - in this first instance.

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
IF I know what to ask for... Counsel in the first instance (but then
become self-reliant(?)).
Then - it would be good for me to simply get into the outbuilding and
"get on with it". More advantageous than the possibility of picking-up
more good counsel doing things in a collaboration.

I have ore waiting to be ground, and my "Mark 1/2" rod-mill is in pieces
in someone else's workshop a couple of hours drive away.

All this is causing me to connect in my mind to good times when I was
the "go for it" innovator. This version of me needs the cobwebs
dusted-off. Striding back in "resurrected" would be rather good :-)

Best wishes,
Rich Smith

----------------------------
Generally it looks good to me. I would make the roller frame a little differently to enable easy changes.

Moving the central lengthwise member to the side(s) gives more drum size options. I'd make the pillow block bars from perforated tubing or "strut" to allow changing their spacing and fine tuning their parallelism if the drum walks endwise. Moving the rollers further apart increases their traction by wedging action.
https://www.grainger.com/product/45YV26?

The whole thing could be mounted on plywood to add diagonal bracing and stiffness if the roller section is designed with overlapping bolted instead
of welded joints. Bolting reduces the needed power tools to a saw and drill and is easily changed, overlapping adds drum/lid clearance. On a
speculative prototype I want each component to serve a single purpose so changes don't interact.

Pulleys and a belt connecting the shafts give the extra traction of 4 wheel instead of 2 wheel drive. A spring tensioned belt idler would let the rod spacing change. Vacuum cleaner or sewing machine belts might work. I tried O rings but they let the drum stop and jerk. South Bend successfully used a
vee pulley and belt on the motor driving a larger flat pulley on the countershaft, it's easy to change steps without releasing belt tension. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/flat-belt-drive-with-some-ooomph.32645/

Cam followers are rollers mounted on threaded shafts. https://www.zoro.com/smith-bearing-cam-follower-stud-hex-socket-unsealed-cr-34-b/i/G4222687/?

A short length of reinforced rubber hose can be used as a cheap flexible
shaft coupler. If overloaded it will twist, likely without harm to other parts. This is a simple shaft coupling design used on lathes, which
tolerates angular misalignment when turning tapers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathe_dog

I like to arrange or design in a handle that allows one hand carry, leaving the other free to open doors or clear table space. Garden hose scrap intact
on rope or slit lengthwise to pad an edge makes a good handle. Pieces of
hose underneath could serve as resilient feet.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 26/08/2025 12:13, Richard Smith wrote:

For what it's worth - updated webpage presenting where trying to go with
the rod-mill project.

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/min/250722_sk_rodmill_mech.html
"Rod-mill mechanism - 22July2025 sketch"

I was visualising 3inch / 75mm SHS with wall thickness about 3mm for the "frame".

I have posted the sketch in there before.

In broader picture; and thinking of some advice given on here...

I am glad of advice. Doing my Doctorate and other projects I would
bring a sketch to the machine-shop - which was the best way of
explaining what I was thinking of - and they would advise, while
questioning me about the purpose of the details, on how it would really
be much better done.
I have though already been told by a marine engineer that the design see "makes complete sense".

I do need that counsel - in this first instance.

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
IF I know what to ask for... Counsel in the first instance (but then
become self-reliant(?)).
Then - it would be good for me to simply get into the outbuilding and
"get on with it". More advantageous than the possibility of picking-up
more good counsel doing things in a collaboration.

I have ore waiting to be ground, and my "Mark 1/2" rod-mill is in pieces
in someone else's workshop a couple of hours drive away.

All this is causing me to connect in my mind to good times when I was
the "go for it" innovator. This version of me needs the cobwebs
dusted-off. Striding back in "resurrected" would be rather good :-)

Best wishes,
Rich Smith

I saw this recently https://youtu.be/hXYrfnFP-jc?t=558 , realising it
was in Cornwall you might have been there, if not some local interest processing tin ore.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
------------------------------------
That is why I watched and waited for bargains on older (1950-60's) machine tools that were still good enough for home projects if not commercial use. They can still do accurate work when needed, it just takes more time and understanding their remaining strengths and limitations. The accuracy limit
is how closely I can measure since I can take light cuts to intended size
+/- 0.01mm or a little better. I send very little work to a nearby custom fabricator with full sized equipment, the last was trailer hitch welding
that exceeded my skill and confidence level.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

David Billington <djb@invalid.com> writes:

On 26/08/2025 12:13, Richard Smith wrote:

...

I saw this recently https://youtu.be/hXYrfnFP-jc?t=558 , realising it
was in Cornwall you might have been there, if not some local interest processing tin ore.

Haven't seen this exact one - it is a
Cornish stamps.

The
California Stamps
are superior, but need rolled steel bar - which arrived with the
Bessemer and open-hearth steelmaking processes.

The Cornish stamps were readily made in the days of cast iron (only) -
and wood.

To give some idea of importance - the village of Twelveheads is just
down the valley - which is proudly named in honour of the stream would
power a set of 12 stamps heads.

They work well - both Cornish and California stamps.

King Edward Mine museum can still produce kilos of tin with its
California stamps readily.

My rod-mill does the same exactly the same task - for a much smaller
size etc.
But needs variable-speed drive and things which have only become readily available economically in recent times.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
------------------------------------
That is why I watched and waited for bargains on older (1950-60's)
machine tools that were still good enough for home projects if not
commercial use. They can still do accurate work when needed, it just
takes more time and understanding their remaining strengths and
limitations. The accuracy limit is how closely I can measure since I
can take light cuts to intended size +/- 0.01mm or a little better. I
send very little work to a nearby custom fabricator with full sized equipment, the last was trailer hitch welding that exceeded my skill
and confidence level.

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Build a lean-to for solid fuel - empty the outbuilding as much as possible. Board out the rafters and put lighter rarely used things up there.
Buy a compressor and park it 4/5ths the way up the wall not taking up floor-space.
Lathe, maybe a mill, in.

I got a lathe as a kid. But my dreams were bigger than all of my
{abilities; mentoring; pockets; etc; etc.}
I can see it now and forgive myself a lot.
Now I have a range of abilities, something in my pocket, and small
dreams.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

I was visualising 3inch / 75mm SHS with wall thickness about 3mm for the "frame".
---------------------------------

The motor, shaft extension and drive pulley frame for the 6.5HP engine on my sawmill is 1" (25mm) square tube, and quite adequate. I've seen 2" (50mm) square tube as the frame of a custom "antique" car.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
------------------------------------
That is why I watched and waited for bargains on older (1950-60's)
machine tools that were still good enough for home projects if not
commercial use. They can still do accurate work when needed, it just
takes more time and understanding their remaining strengths and
limitations. The accuracy limit is how closely I can measure since I
can take light cuts to intended size +/- 0.01mm or a little better. I
send very little work to a nearby custom fabricator with full sized
equipment, the last was trailer hitch welding that exceeded my skill
and confidence level.

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still here
are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at the screen.

Build a lean-to for solid fuel - empty the outbuilding as much as possible. Board out the rafters and put lighter rarely used things up there.
Buy a compressor and park it 4/5ths the way up the wall not taking up floor-space.
Lathe, maybe a mill, in.

I got a lathe as a kid. But my dreams were bigger than all of my
{abilities; mentoring; pockets; etc; etc.}
I can see it now and forgive myself a lot.
Now I have a range of abilities, something in my pocket, and small
dreams.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 26/08/2025 17:10, Richard Smith wrote:

David Billington <djb@invalid.com> writes:

On 26/08/2025 12:13, Richard Smith wrote:

...

I saw this recently https://youtu.be/hXYrfnFP-jc?t=558 , realising it
was in Cornwall you might have been there, if not some local interest
processing tin ore.

Haven't seen this exact one - it is a

A bit earlier, in case you didn't watch the whole video, is another
crusher but for larger material https://youtu.be/hXYrfnFP-jc?t=445 .

Cornish stamps.

The
California Stamps
are superior, but need rolled steel bar - which arrived with the
Bessemer and open-hearth steelmaking processes.

The Cornish stamps were readily made in the days of cast iron (only) -
and wood.

To give some idea of importance - the village of Twelveheads is just
down the valley - which is proudly named in honour of the stream would
power a set of 12 stamps heads.

They work well - both Cornish and California stamps.

King Edward Mine museum can still produce kilos of tin with its
California stamps readily.

My rod-mill does the same exactly the same task - for a much smaller
size etc.
But needs variable-speed drive and things which have only become readily available economically in recent times.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1plciujj7.fsf@void.com...

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Build a lean-to for solid fuel - empty the outbuilding as much as possible. Board out the rafters and put lighter rarely used things up there.
Buy a compressor and park it 4/5ths the way up the wall not taking up floor-space.
Lathe, maybe a mill, in.

I got a lathe as a kid. But my dreams were bigger than all of my
{abilities; mentoring; pockets; etc; etc.}
I can see it now and forgive myself a lot.
Now I have a range of abilities, something in my pocket, and small
dreams.

--------------------------------

My South Bend lathe holds up to 10" (254mm) diameter, big enough for my projects, maybe not for yours. The practical work diameter is smaller, to allow for chuck jaws, unless you can bolt it to a faceplate. The diameter capacity is less over the carriage. Student abuse has degraded its precision though I can still turn a shaft and hole or ball bearing recess to a light finger pressure fit, tediously by repeatedly measuring and removing most of the excess.

It has a threaded spindle and leather belt drive, both long obsolete but
still adequate. It is slow and loose enough that carbide bits don't work
well, localized wear prevents snugging the gibs over the full travel, the slides are tight at the ends and looser in the middle. High Speed Steel
(HSS) tool bits are fine to cut mild and somewhat hardened steel like the
rock drill rod or high strength bolt shanks.

The ways of small Sears lathe I bought first were worn low near the spindle which meant I had to thread and turn diameters precisely at the barely used tailstock end. The worn area was still good enough for more usual short
parts like adapter bushings, it lowered the bit height more than the cutting diameter. When I took a night class to correct what I had been doing wrong
by guesswork I milled the bed straight. It was still too small for useful
cuts in steel so I grabbed the 10" South Bend when I saw it, and lived
happily ever after. The SB has made hydraulic pump drive components for an 18HP engine.

Finding parts can be a problem for an old lathe, or a new import one.
Tooling such as chucks and cutting bit holders is more generic and should be easier.

The Sears has separate change gears for threading, which is acceptable for occasional use, a quick change gearbox is very nice but not essential. A complete British change gear set for threading would be different from what
I have, your BSP pipe thread has different pitches.

The exact metric conversion gear pair for an inch pitch leadscrew is 127
teeth driven, 100 (or 120) driving the next gear. 47/37 is very close and
more compact. I use 1mm = 0.040" to mentally convert metric drawing
dimensions to inch dial readings for roughing near final size. https://www.reddit.com/r/functionalprint/comments/1gxe960/3d_printed_gears_for_my_lathe/

A small air compressor may be enough in a manual machine shop, you don't
want to blow sharp chips all around. Cheap paint brushes are better for chip cleanup.

jsw

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"David Billington" wrote in message news:108kpuh$4qve$1@dont-email.me...

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still here
are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at the screen.

------------------------------

I've been struggling to not push too hard.

Unfortunately I can't help much with the next question, which ones? My experience with imports dates back from when they were troublesome, so I bought old American iron instead.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/1/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

URL Not Found For Me.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/1/2025 8:06 PM, Snag wrote:

On 8/1/2025 9:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/
ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

Two questions I wanted to ask:
* Overall does it look good?
* what wheels should I use?

Overall:

Have friend with lathe, milling-machine, plenty of stock, etc.
Hence design should be achievable.

Already using electrical Variable Frequency Drive - no need to provide
mechanical means to change speed.

I propose the gearbox (with motor) is "free" on the shaft with "only"
a moments / torque resisting connection from the motor feet to the
machine frame.


Wheels:

The two on one shaft, closer side in the sketch, are driven.
Need to transmit torque to the rod-mill shell.

I looked through catalogue(s)
eg.
https://www.castors-online.co.uk

Find would be wanting polyurethane tyre'ed wheels as slightly
conformant and likely increase grip.-a Rubber would be fine too (?).

Problem for this intended purpose is all have roller-bearing insert
for "free-wheeling" on a fixed tubular mounting.

I need those two wheels to be fixed onto the shaft - "locked" to the
shaft.
Suggestions?


Regards,
Rich S

-a Use 2 shafts coupled by a belt or chain . Your wheels can be
immobilized by injecting the bearings with epoxy resin . Locked to the shafts with shaft retaining loctite .
-a Alternate suggestion : Use 2 pairs of cogged pulleys with enough
slack in the belts to form a "saddle" for the drum to ride in .

Doesn't that risk if at any moment it doesn't roll it will be carried
off the assembly by belt friction? With wheels or rollers if for some
reason it doesn't roll, because maybe mass got stuck on one side for
example, it should just slide or scoot. Am I missing something?
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/1/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

Two questions I wanted to ask:
* Overall does it look good?
* what wheels should I use?

The nice thing is if you don't like your choice you can change it. You
can cast urethane rubber wheels any size you like as long as you can
make a mold, or if you prefer not to, skateboard wheels are a great
option for lots of applications in DIY industry. The bearings for
skateboard wheels are pretty small, but they are pretty inexpensive even
in fairly high grades. For the drive side just make a shaft journal to
match the OD size of the bearing.

Unless I totally miss the scale or the project and you are rolling an
oil drum sized tumbling chamber. Now I bet skate wheels would work with
that too. Just adjust frame for size.

Overall:

Have friend with lathe, milling-machine, plenty of stock, etc.
Hence design should be achievable.

Already using electrical Variable Frequency Drive - no need to provide mechanical means to change speed.

I propose the gearbox (with motor) is "free" on the shaft with "only"
a moments / torque resisting connection from the motor feet to the
machine frame.

Wheels:

The two on one shaft, closer side in the sketch, are driven.
Need to transmit torque to the rod-mill shell.

I looked through catalogue(s)
eg.
https://www.castors-online.co.uk

Find would be wanting polyurethane tyre'ed wheels as slightly
conformant and likely increase grip. Rubber would be fine too (?).

Problem for this intended purpose is all have roller-bearing insert
for "free-wheeling" on a fixed tubular mounting.

I need those two wheels to be fixed onto the shaft - "locked" to the
shaft.
Suggestions?

Regards,
Rich S

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/26/2025 10:12 AM, David Billington wrote:

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

YES!

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still here
are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at the screen.

Probably. LOL.

I have made tools for jobs faster than going to the store to buy one,
and I have made parts on an evening or a weekend when I couldn't buy
them and still finish the job today.

Build a lean-to for solid fuel - empty the outbuilding as much as
possible.
Board out the rafters and put lighter rarely used things up there.
Buy a compressor and park it 4/5ths the way up the wall not taking up
floor-space.
Lathe, maybe a mill, in.

I got a lathe as a kid.-a But my dreams were bigger than all of my
{abilities; mentoring; pockets; etc; etc.}
I can see it now and forgive myself a lot.
Now I have a range of abilities, something in my pocket, and small
dreams.

--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l58e$8ri4$1@dont-email.me...

or if you prefer not to, skateboard wheels are a great

option for lots of applications in DIY industry. The bearings for
skateboard wheels are pretty small, but they are pretty inexpensive even
in fairly high grades. For the drive side just make a shaft journal to
match the OD size of the bearing.

Unless I totally miss the scale or the project and you are rolling an
oil drum sized tumbling chamber. Now I bet skate wheels would work with
that too. Just adjust frame for size.
----------------------------------
Skate bearing field use report:

When I built my bandsaw mill I reused a previous smaller attempt's blade guides, which used 608 skateboard bearings, 8mm bore (5/16"). The dealer showed me how to disassemble, clean and grease them for longer life. At
first they worked but 50 MPH and 1000 lbs of blade tension (not directly on them) wore them out quickly, sometimes in a day, leaving a trail of the
balls, seals, outer race and cage fragments in the sawdust. The saw kept cutting normally with one intact guide.

The upgrade used R8s, 1/2" bore. Cheapies from Amazon lasted in the 2" diameter side (top) roller guides that deflect the blade 1/4" downward to stabilize it against twisting it but not in the back side bearings that support cutting pressure at 50 MPH , from me leaning on the carriage handle.
A change to $5 R8 bearings from an industrial supplier cured that.

I know the blade speed because I repaired and mounted the crashed
motorcycle's speedo. The blade runs on the tires.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l5t6$8ri5$3@dont-email.me...

I have made tools for jobs faster than going to the store to buy one,
and I have made parts on an evening or a weekend when I couldn't buy
them and still finish the job today.

-------------------------------
I usually make tools I can't buy, like a box wrench in two bolt-together halves that reshapes and loosens a stubborn brake line flare nut. The rock drill rod part adapts an HF jack spreader bar to my Viking floor jack. The flat bottomed gantry track trolley mounts an HF electric hoist. I machined a 50mm Allen wrench with a center hole for a 19mm socket about a month before seeing them available on-line. It loosens the flywheel nut on my Honda. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806128399585.html?

I was making things before I could read and longed for the proper machine tools to make them from steel instead of wood. At maybe 7 or 8 I first saw a metal lathe, winding armor wire onto submarine cable, and knew I'd have one some day.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l4lg$8ri5$1@dont-email.me...

On 8/1/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg

URL Not Found For Me.
Bob La Londe

----------------------------

Same here, though it worked earlier. Sorry if I broke it, I've fixed enough recently to deserve bad karma for balance.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 8/26/2025 12:12 PM, David Billington wrote:

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - "pulling in favours" is proving so time-consuming that it
would be much cheaper paying all the delivery charges, and paying
commercial rates for machined parts.
------------------------------------
That is why I watched and waited for bargains on older (1950-60's)
machine tools that were still good enough for home projects if not
commercial use. They can still do accurate work when needed, it just
takes more time and understanding their remaining strengths and
limitations. The accuracy limit is how closely I can measure since I
can take light cuts to intended size +/- 0.01mm or a little better. I
send very little work to a nearby custom fabricator with full sized
equipment, the last was trailer hitch welding that exceeded my skill
and confidence level.

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still here
are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at the screen.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!
--
Snag
We live in a time where intelligent people
are being silenced so that
stupid people won't be offended.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 26/08/2025 20:40, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"David Billington"-a wrote in message news:108kpuh$4qve$1@dont-email.me...

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still here
are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at the
screen.

------------------------------

I've been struggling to not push too hard.

Unfortunately I can't help much with the next question, which ones? My experience with imports dates back from when they were troublesome, so
I bought old American iron instead.

I expect he needs to put the word out that he's looking for lathe, mill
etc and see what comes back. I know a guy in his locality that has
picked up his machine tools, a Colchester Student, German toolroom
lathe, and a mill in the area. IIRC the Colchester was from an older guy
that decided it was time to give his tools a new home. A mate got a
Colchester Student from his late uncle's estate and it went in the back
of a Transit van minus the base as my crane couldn't lift high enough to
get it in with the base on, I took the base down to his place a week
later about 120 miles away. It's a small country.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l4ts$8ri5$2@dont-email.me...

Someone wrote:

Alternate suggestion : Use 2 pairs of cogged pulleys with enough slack
in the belts to form a "saddle" for the drum to ride in .

Doesn't that risk if at any moment it doesn't roll it will be carried
off the assembly by belt friction? With wheels or rollers if for some
reason it doesn't roll, because maybe mass got stuck on one side for
example, it should just slide or scoot. Am I missing something?
Bob La Londe

-----------------------------

Intuitively a belt would seem to help, but the physics of friction isn't intuitive.
Friction depends on contact pressure and a fixed coefficient that depends on the materials, though there are complications like ice melting under
pressure. Very cold ice isn't as slippery.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/frict3.html

"... the area of coverage for a sliding block is actually much larger than
the area of contact. Because of microscopic irregularities in the surface,
the block is actually riding on a small fraction of the coverage area.
Because such points of contact are deformable, an increase in normal force will actually increase the area of actual contact and increase the
resistance to movement."

Here "normal" means perpendicular to a surface.

For several years after the locomotive was invented it depended on a gear
and rack for traction, because the assumption was that wrought on cast iron was too slippery. Someone finally measured and found that the tractive pull was about 1/4 of the weight of the engine. For ordinary car tires it's
around 2/3 to 3/4 of the vehicle weight. Wheel speed deceleration exceeding that triggers the ABS to assume slippage and limit braking.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l58e$8ri4$1@dont-email.me...

You can cast urethane rubber wheels any size you like as long as you can

make a mold,

-------------------------------
What urethane molding compounds do you suggest?

In the mid 60's I was a lab tech testing Adiprene molding, but I haven't
kept up since.

One part of the testing was dissolving it in toluene, in large open vats
that spools of nylon webbing were dipped in to make a leather alternative
for industry. I discovered that I don't get high on glue solvent and don't want to breathe much of it ever again.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

A bit earlier, in case you didn't watch the whole video, is another
crusher but for larger material https://youtu.be/hXYrfnFP-jc?t=445 .

Jaw-crusher.
More specifically - a single-toggle jaw crusher.
On granite (hard, abrasive), apparently has about 13X the jaw wear of a double-toggle
jaw-crusher.
Motion of single-toggle jaw-crusher (eccentric at top on which jaw is
directly mounted - as see in video) is mixture of crushing and shear.
the jaw moves in an approximately elliptical motion.
Productive for softer rocks, apparently.
Double-toggle - the eccentric is behind the moving jaw, the top of the
jaw pivots on a shaft, and the motion is pure compressive "in-and-out".

We have a miniature jaw crusher - a laboratory jaw-crusher - which we
use to break-up what is readily produced by lump-hammers.

The rod-mill takes-over after the jaw-crusher and is considered
"grinding" activity (crushing=>grinding - both are "comminution").
Taking the crushed chippings down to a uniform "sand".

Best wishes,
Rich S.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:108l4lg$8ri5$1@dont-email.me...

On 8/1/2025 7:00 PM, Richard Smith wrote:

Hello there

New mechanical part of rod-mill proposed design

http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/rodmill/pics/ptmp/250722_rodmill_mech_new.jpg >>

URL Not Found For Me.
Bob La Londe

----------------------------

Same here, though it worked earlier. Sorry if I broke it, I've fixed
enough recently to deserve bad karma for balance.

Pardon me - deleted what was at that link, as
* always meant to be a "temp"
* put that image in the new page http://weldsmith.co.uk/greet/min/250722_sk_rodmill_mech.html
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 8/26/2025 12:12 PM, David Billington wrote:

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith"-a wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - ...
...
and confidence level.

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still
here are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at
the screen.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Thanks everyone.
Thanks for contributing and reaching out to me.
It has been a long hard bruising journey and what is obvious to you is a
big issue to re-find for me.

I was slowly getting the first embyonic realisations and you come in and "monster" it - go with what you are "re-realising".

Best wishes
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1jz2pdrhd.fsf@void.com...

Snag <Snag_one@msn.com> writes:

On 8/26/2025 12:12 PM, David Billington wrote:

On 26/08/2025 17:36, Richard Smith wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> writes:

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m11poywd34.fsf@void.com...

That said - ...
...
and confidence level.

I thought about that - is it time to have my own machine-tools...

Was that meant as a rhetorical question? I think those of use still
here are already on the side that has them and are screaming yes at
the screen.

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Thanks everyone.
Thanks for contributing and reaching out to me.
It has been a long hard bruising journey and what is obvious to you is a
big issue to re-find for me.

I was slowly getting the first embyonic realisations and you come in and "monster" it - go with what you are "re-realising".

Best wishes

--------------------------------
I haven't contributed much about drive shaft alignment because I'm still new at it, and largely self-taught, my machine building apprenticeship covered mostly the pre-computer electrical side and I researched the other parts
later as necessary. I think you have to go through it and fix failures to realize how difficult it can be to do right. You are getting into millwright skills, the practical side of mechanical engineering.

https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/millwrights-and-mechanics-guide_carl-a-nelson/346705/item/5737589/?
I don't have enough monthly cellular data allowance to try the large downloads, and I have the book.

Yes, it's been a long journey so far and I've only begun it. I could design and build simple things like the sawmill myself, more complex equipment only after an engineer had designed and calculated the critical parts.
jsw

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

The engineer friend who helped me build the "Mark 1/2" rod-mill and
wants to help me with the "Mark 1" built a magnificent sawmill at a
place near where I was then living.
Saw it before I got to know him.
Commercial setup - place logs on an get planks out.
So in that regard I am fortunate.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Richard Smith" wrote in message news:m1plcg3k3p.fsf@void.com...

The engineer friend who helped me build the "Mark 1/2" rod-mill and
wants to help me with the "Mark 1" built a magnificent sawmill at a
place near where I was then living.
Saw it before I got to know him.
Commercial setup - place logs on an get planks out.
So in that regard I am fortunate.

-------------------
You are fortunate, my knowledge of Statics is slim, and of Dynamics negligible.

My sawmill was meant to get the best quality oak boards or beams obtainable from less than perfect trees, so it's very slow to operate since I may have
to hoist, rotate and inspect the squared "cant" between cuts, then
reposition and level or tilt it on the supports.

The overhead gantry crossing the saw bed at its center has been a good way
to move logs on and cut lumber off the bed, and to hoist and rotate with a rope sling suspended by a snatch block pulley. A peavey or long pipe clamp will rotate smaller logs, a second chainfall hoist pulling a rope wound
around the cant will turn the heaviest.

I think the gantry is an acceptable alternative to a forklift or bucket
loader if you don't have one or the large maneuvering space they require
with logs. I can lift over four times as much weight with my tripods and gantry as the neighbor's bucket loader, but he moves logs within its limit much faster.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2