From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

To be honest I am usually rather skeptical of this sort of "News" as
reality is often somewhat different. For example, here
(Thailand), my relatives employ two Cambodian (they sell wholesale
food stuff) and this is how it works here.

Joe Cambod has heard about the wealth to be made in "The land of
gold", Thailand, but the borders are closed and he can't cross over to
see what's what. So he goes to an "agent who can cross the border and
yes the agent knows of a job that sounds that he can handle it so then
the Agent arranges the crossing, you meet your new boss, you accept
the job and Bingo you are a Foreign Worker.

Of course there a couple of other things... You owe the Agent, who
your new employer will pay for you (and now you owe the boss) and the
Thai Immigration requires a rather costly Work Visa which your
employer will also pay for you, and deduct from your salary.

Now, you can look at this two ways - the writers way, gloom and doom,
or the workers way, reality. That his "Thai" salary, after all
withholdings, is 5 times the money he would be paid at home.
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

To be honest I am usually rather skeptical of this sort of "News" as
reality is often somewhat different. For example, here
(Thailand), my relatives employ two Cambodian (they sell wholesale
food stuff) and this is how it works here.

Joe Cambod has heard about the wealth to be made in "The land of
gold", Thailand, but the borders are closed and he can't cross over to
see what's what. So he goes to an "agent who can cross the border and
yes the agent knows of a job that sounds that he can handle it so then
the Agent arranges the crossing, you meet your new boss, you accept
the job and Bingo you are a Foreign Worker.

Of course there a couple of other things... You owe the Agent, who
your new employer will pay for you (and now you owe the boss) and the
Thai Immigration requires a rather costly Work Visa which your
employer will also pay for you, and deduct from your salary.

Now, you can look at this two ways - the writers way, gloom and doom,
or the workers way, reality. That his "Thai" salary, after all
withholdings, is 5 times the money he would be paid at home.
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 20:47:50 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

To be honest I am usually rather skeptical of this sort of "News" as
reality is often somewhat different. For example, here
(Thailand), my relatives employ two Cambodian (they sell wholesale
food stuff) and this is how it works here.

Joe Cambod has heard about the wealth to be made in "The land of
gold", Thailand, but the borders are closed and he can't cross over to
see what's what. So he goes to an "agent who can cross the border and
yes the agent knows of a job that sounds that he can handle it so then
the Agent arranges the crossing, you meet your new boss, you accept
the job and Bingo you are a Foreign Worker.

Of course there a couple of other things... You owe the Agent, who
your new employer will pay for you (and now you owe the boss) and the
Thai Immigration requires a rather costly Work Visa which your
employer will also pay for you, and deduct from your salary.

Now, you can look at this two ways - the writers way, gloom and doom,
or the workers way, reality. That his "Thai" salary, after all >withholdings, is 5 times the money he would be paid at home.

had some problems with the computer sending this message. Prehaps the
computed mailed it twice to make up for beinf an utter ass the first
time :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates that there is a
real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity of it,
if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved
children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam, Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/25/2025 9:57 PM, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

To be honest I am usually rather skeptical of this sort of "News" as
reality is often somewhat different. For example, here
(Thailand), my relatives employ two Cambodian (they sell wholesale
food stuff) and this is how it works here.

Joe Cambod has heard about the wealth to be made in "The land of
gold", Thailand, but the borders are closed and he can't cross over to
see what's what. So he goes to an "agent who can cross the border and
yes the agent knows of a job that sounds that he can handle it so then
the Agent arranges the crossing, you meet your new boss, you accept
the job and Bingo you are a Foreign Worker.

Of course there a couple of other things... You owe the Agent, who
your new employer will pay for you (and now you owe the boss) and the
Thai Immigration requires a rather costly Work Visa which your
employer will also pay for you, and deduct from your salary.

Now, you can look at this two ways - the writers way, gloom and doom,
or the workers way, reality. That his "Thai" salary, after all withholdings, is 5 times the money he would be paid at home.
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes, not all that different from USA or anywhere on earth so
far as I know. Which is why I phrased my post tentatively.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-
forced-labor-cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-
products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration
or an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for
the CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet
appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-
scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes
as written, so that would be a compliment.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication
or a proper response to an actual problem.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 8:02 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/25/2025 9:57 PM, John B. wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-
forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-
products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-
abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-
thread/

To be honest I am usually rather skeptical of this sort of
"News" as
reality is often somewhat different. For example, here
(Thailand),-a my relatives employ two Cambodian (they sell
wholesale
food stuff) and this is how it works here.

Joe Cambod has heard about the wealth to be made in "The
land of
gold", Thailand, but the borders are closed and he can't
cross over to
see what's what. So he goes to an "agent who can cross the
border and
yes the agent knows of a job that sounds that he can
handle it so then
the Agent arranges the crossing, you meet your new boss,
you accept
the job and Bingo you are a Foreign Worker.

Of course there a couple of other things... You owe the
Agent, who
your new employer will pay for you (and now you owe the
boss) and the
Thai Immigration requires a rather costly Work Visa which
your
employer will also pay for you, and deduct from your salary.

Now, you can look at this two ways - the writers way,
gloom and doom,
or the workers way, reality. That-a-a his "Thai" salary,
after all
withholdings, is 5 times the money he would be paid at home.
--
cheers,

John B.

Yes, not all that different from USA or anywhere on earth so
far as I know.-a Which is why I phrased my post tentatively.

p.s. the CBP complaint doesn't specify ROC citizens nor
lawful foreign workers nor illegals working in ROC. So our
comments above may or may not be relevant. I still don't know.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this report
today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using- forced-labor-
cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an actual
problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates that there is
a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity of
it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved
children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or enslaved
Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at WalMart. But
no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse- scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as written,
so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-
forced-labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on-
brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration
or an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which
sorta intimates that there is a real problem, but no
specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your
electric bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various
products for the CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details
have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-
abuse- scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet
Nam, Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-
thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan
playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal
statutes as written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a
fabrication or a proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry" <https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry" <https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865. https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/

So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this
report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using- forced-
labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on- brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an
actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates that >>>>> there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity of >>>>> it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved
children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or
enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at
WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- scandal/ >>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the- thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as
written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a
proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about Homan
and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame but yourself.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then
received this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-
forced- labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on-
brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our
administration or an actual problem. Here's a local
ROC paper which sorta intimates that there is a real
problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale
or severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison
than enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your
electric bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various
products for the CCP to sell at WalMart. But no
details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-
abuse- scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet
Nam, Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-
thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan
playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal
statutes as written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a
fabrication or a proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard
about Homan and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no
one to blame but yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into-tom-homan-over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 1:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this
report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using- forced-
labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on- brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an
actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates
that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity >>>>>>> of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved >>>>>>> children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or
enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at >>>>>>> WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- scandal/ >>>>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the- thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as
written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a
proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about Homan
and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame but
yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into-tom-homan- over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/

yeah, someone accepting $50K in a paper bag from a federal agent on the promise of steering federal contracts their way is a nothing-burger....

fwiw - it doesn't matter if he was a member of the administration at the
time or not. Accepting $50K on the promise of steering federal contracts
their way is a crime, it's little different than accepting money to
commit a murder whether an attempt of murder was made or not. Homan
accepted a bribe and trump made it go away.

This is another case of the most blatantly criminal enterprise
functioning out of the whitehouse this nation as ever seen.

I really hope you're enjoying the conversion of the US government to a
fucking clown show - nothing biden was ever even accused of comes close
to what trump is being given approval for by the magatard base.

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to all those cats in Springfield
(fucking idiots).
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 12:52 PM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 1:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then
received this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-
using- forced- labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-
order-on- brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our
administration or an actual problem. Here's a local
ROC paper which sorta intimates that there is a real
problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale
or severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison
than enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for
your electric bicycle or enslaved Uighers making
various products for the CCP to sell at WalMart. But
no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-
abuse- scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet
Nam, Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-
the- thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan
playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal
statutes as written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a
fabrication or a proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't
heard about Homan and the Cava bag, and if you haven't
you have no one to blame but yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into-
tom-homan- over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/

yeah, someone accepting $50K in a paper bag from a federal
agent on the promise of steering federal contracts their way
is a nothing-burger....

fwiw - it doesn't matter if he was a member of the
administration at the time or not. Accepting $50K on the
promise of steering federal contracts their way is a crime,
it's little different than accepting money to commit a
murder whether an attempt of murder was made or not. Homan
accepted a bribe and trump made it go away.

This is another case of the most blatantly criminal
enterprise functioning out of the whitehouse this nation as
ever seen.

I really hope you're enjoying the conversion of the US
government to a fucking clown show - nothing biden was ever
even accused of comes close to what trump is being given
approval for by the magatard base.

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to all those cats in
Springfield (fucking idiots).

Let's posit that you are right on the facts for a moment.

Tell me why Merrick Garland did not prosecute.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 12:07:14 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this
report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using- forced-
labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on- brands- products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an
actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates that >>>>>> there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity of >>>>>> it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved >>>>>> children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or
enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at
WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- scandal/ >>>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the- thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as
written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a
proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about Homan
and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame but yourself.

Must be some new politcal scam on the LNS (Leftists News Networks)

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 13:52:03 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 1:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this >>>>>>>> report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using- forced- >>>>>>>> labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release-order-on- brands- products/ >>>>>>>>
So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an >>>>>>>> actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates >>>>>>>> that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or severity >>>>>>>> of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than enslaved >>>>>>>> children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric bicycle or
enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP to sell at >>>>>>>> WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- scandal/ >>>>>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the- thread/

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as
written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a
proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about Homan
and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame but
yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into-tom-homan-
over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/

yeah, someone accepting $50K in a paper bag from a federal agent on the >promise of steering federal contracts their way is a nothing-burger....

It had to have been a member of the Biden Administration, otherwise
how could they steer federal contracts?

fwiw - it doesn't matter if he was a member of the administration at the >time or not. Accepting $50K on the promise of steering federal contracts >their way is a crime, it's little different than accepting money to
commit a murder whether an attempt of murder was made or not. Homan
accepted a bribe and trump made it go away.

This is another case of the most blatantly criminal enterprise
functioning out of the whitehouse this nation as ever seen.

I really hope you're enjoying the conversion of the US government to a >fucking clown show - nothing biden was ever even accused of comes close
to what trump is being given approval for by the magatard base.

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to all those cats in Springfield
(fucking idiots).

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 07:54:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"

<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>

"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor >trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

I read your reference and it seems to apply t0 " undocumented migrant
workers in San Diego". Does this same problem apply to the
"construction industry"? All those welders, concrete workers, heavy construction equipment operators - bulldozers, etc. - and so on?
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865. >https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked
across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:08:24 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 07:54:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"

<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>

"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor >>trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

I read your reference and it seems to apply t0 " undocumented migrant
workers in San Diego". Does this same problem apply to the
"construction industry"? All those welders, concrete workers, heavy >construction equipment operators - bulldozers, etc. - and so on?

Sigh. I should have taken more time to read the report more
carefully. The report does not indicate that it was solely based on
migrant workers in the San Diego area. It claims:

"A study of labor trafficking among undocumented migrant workers in
San Diego also found that exploitation was most common in construction
and janitorial services..."

and

"These factors were identified through surveys of 903 construction
workers in Houston between August 2022 and August 2023."

The use of "a study" suggests that the San Diego reference was just
one of several studies. The study cannot be used to claim that labor
abuse is a national problem, especially when using a self-selected
statistical Houston population which probably favored complaining
about everything possible.

So, you're correct. It does not apply to the entire "construction
industry".
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 19:43:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:08:24 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 07:54:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"

<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>

"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor >>>trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

I read your reference and it seems to apply t0 " undocumented migrant >>workers in San Diego". Does this same problem apply to the
"construction industry"? All those welders, concrete workers, heavy >>construction equipment operators - bulldozers, etc. - and so on?

Sigh. I should have taken more time to read the report more
carefully. The report does not indicate that it was solely based on
migrant workers in the San Diego area. It claims:

"A study of labor trafficking among undocumented migrant workers in
San Diego also found that exploitation was most common in construction
and janitorial services..."

and

"These factors were identified through surveys of 903 construction
workers in Houston between August 2022 and August 2023."

The use of "a study" suggests that the San Diego reference was just
one of several studies. The study cannot be used to claim that labor
abuse is a national problem, especially when using a self-selected >statistical Houston population which probably favored complaining
about everything possible.

So, you're correct. It does not apply to the entire "construction
industry".

Admittedly I have little or no experience in working in the U.S. but
working overseas as I have nearly all my life it works like this.
You are looking for work and you hear that AB&C is hiring for their
Indonesian job so you scurry right down to their office , resume in
hand - resume, a document showing name, age, and listing all your jobs
as in "June 2000 -June 2001 Holms&Narver, bulldozer operator. Projected.completed.

Their Perusal Guy talks to you while and tell you "Yup. We got a job,
pays $ 1.90 an hour." You sit there for a minute thinking "I haven't
worked that cheap since I was 15 years old, then reach over and pick
up your resume and say "thanks but no thanks" and go down to the
coffee shop to see if there are rumors of any one else that might be
hiring.
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 20:17:42 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 19:43:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

So, you're correct. It does not apply to the entire "construction >>industry".

It only gets worse. I re-read the article and found another oddity. <https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
On the first page, when I click on the box with:

"For more detailed information about the background, methods, and
findings of this study, see Measuring Human Trafficking Prevalence in Construction: A Field Test of Multiple Estimation Methods, Final
Report."

I get:
"Access to this page is restricted... The result youAre looking for
may no longer be available or may be under review for archival."

The report was dated Sept 2024, so the Administration for Children and
Families have had plenty of time to fix any errors in their "multiple estimation methods". My wild guess is the methodology report was
removed, but the summary PDF page was left intact.

I searched Redaction Watch by title, but did not find the report
listed:
<https://retractionwatch.com>

In the future, I'll try to be more careful in selecting my references.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 19:43:22 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:08:24 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 07:54:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"

<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>

"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor >>>trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

I read your reference and it seems to apply t0 " undocumented migrant >>workers in San Diego". Does this same problem apply to the
"construction industry"? All those welders, concrete workers, heavy >>construction equipment operators - bulldozers, etc. - and so on?

Sigh. I should have taken more time to read the report more
carefully. The report does not indicate that it was solely based on
migrant workers in the San Diego area. It claims:

"A study of labor trafficking among undocumented migrant workers in
San Diego also found that exploitation was most common in construction
and janitorial services..."

and

"These factors were identified through surveys of 903 construction
workers in Houston between August 2022 and August 2023."

The use of "a study" suggests that the San Diego reference was just
one of several studies. The study cannot be used to claim that labor
abuse is a national problem, especially when using a self-selected >statistical Houston population which probably favored complaining
about everything possible.

So, you're correct. It does not apply to the entire "construction
industry".

Admittedly I have little or no experience in working in the U.S. but
working overseas as I have nearly all my life it works like this.
You are looking for work and you hear that AB&C is hiring for their
Indonesian job so you scurry right down to their office , resume in
hand - resume, a document showing name, age, and listing all your jobs
as in "June 2000 -June 2001 Holms&Narver, bulldozer operator. Projected.completed.

Their Perusal Guy talks to you while and tell you "Yup. We got a job,
pays $ 1.90 an hour." You sit there for a minute thinking "I haven't
worked that cheap since I was 15 years old, then reach over and pick
up your resume and say "thanks but no thanks" and go down to the
coffee shop to see if there are rumors of any one else that might be
hiring.
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 21:36:20 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

(...)

You computer continues to send out duplicate messages.
What's odd is the long time delay between these messages.
The last two pairs of duplicate messages were on
09/26/2025 at 8:17pm and 9:36pm PST.
An earlier pair of duplicate messages were on
09/25/2025 at 9:57pm and 8:47pm PST

I've seen duplicate Usenet messages (and email messages) caused by
transmission errors, usually as a result of a high error rate users
modem (dialup or DSL) or bridge (ISDN or cable). Another cause was
malware on the users computer monopolizing most of the internet
bandwidth causing congestion and an increases error rate. However,
there's a difference here. The time delay between repeated messages
was always a small number of minutes (1 to 5 min). Most commonly, the
time delay was only a few seconds. However, your delay is
approximately 1.0 to 1.5 hrs. I've never seen that long a delay and
am having difficulties guessing what might be causing such a long
delay.

Also, you're using Forte Agent 7.10.32.1212 while the current version
is 8.00.32.1272. I don't know if the problem is related to using an
older version, but it might be useful upgrading, which is NOT free.
However, I just looked at the web site and the upgrade forms are
"temporarily disabled due to technical difficulties". Swell, what
else can go wrong today?
<https://forteinc.com/agent/install.php> <https://forteinc.com/agent/upgrade-form.php>

You probably will need some local talent figuring out what is
happening and what to do next. I can't do anything useful from here.
If you do find someone, maybe this message will help them identify the
culprit.

Good luck.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:23:08 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865. >>https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked
across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain
to authorities for fear of being deported.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 8:23 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused
or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865.
https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked
across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"
--
cheers,

John B.

No, it's larger than that.

People here illegally are especially vulnerable to extortion
and forced labor. Not only sexual slavery although that is
huge.

https://lawjournalforsocialjustice.com/2025/02/05/the-hidden-exploitation-of-immigrant-labor-in-underprivileged-communities/

example:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10-illegal-migrant-kids-found-at-california-pot-farm-as-feds-launch-child-labor-probe/ar-AA1Irahc

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/26/2025 2:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 12:52 PM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 1:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this >>>>>>>>> report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of- using- forced- >>>>>>>>> labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release- order-on- brands- products/ >>>>>>>>>
So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an >>>>>>>>> actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates >>>>>>>>> that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP >>>>>>>>> to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me >>>>>>>>> anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- >>>>>>>>> scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following- the- thread/ >>>>>>>>

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as
written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a >>>>>>> proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about
Homan and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame
but yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into- tom-homan-
over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/

yeah, someone accepting $50K in a paper bag from a federal agent on
the promise of steering federal contracts their way is a nothing-
burger....

fwiw - it doesn't matter if he was a member of the administration at
the time or not. Accepting $50K on the promise of steering federal
contracts their way is a crime, it's little different than accepting
money to commit a murder whether an attempt of murder was made or not.
Homan accepted a bribe and trump made it go away.

This is another case of the most blatantly criminal enterprise
functioning out of the whitehouse this nation as ever seen.

I really hope you're enjoying the conversion of the US government to a
fucking clown show - nothing biden was ever even accused of comes
close to what trump is being given approval for by the magatard base.

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to all those cats in Springfield
(fucking idiots).

Let's posit that you are right on the facts for a moment.

Tell me why Merrick Garland did not prosecute.

This was a pretty vapid attempt by you to shift blame from this administration, but for the benefit of those who may be _actually_
ignorant of the situation:

The bribe occurred on september 20, 2024 on the promise that the
contracts would be awarded after the potential change in the
administration. The charges for acting on the bribe promise are much
more severe than taking money and doing nothing (to reiterate, both are crimes). Any operation like this is allowed to run its course, and after
trump won the election there was still the missing part of the equation.
I'm also quite sure Mr. Garland didn't anticipate such a morally
bankrupt overhaul of the american justice system and likely anticipated
the investigation would have been followed through given that they have
video tape and testimony proving that homan took the money.

But, we have an FBI director more interested in writing childrens books
that paint the president as some sort of Mr. Rogers character and
prosecuting based on political affiliation rather than the preponderance
of evidence and an attorney general who took a $25K bribe from trump
when she was the AG for floriduh during trumps 1st presidential
campaign. It's no wonder they're giving homan a pass, but the pass isn't because there is no crime - contrary to the lies being told by senior administration officials. The pass is because homan is a loyalist.

It's comical listening to people who are still under some delusion that
these fucking criminals are cleaning up washington, when they're filling
what was a swamp with toxic waste.

Bitcoin any one?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 09:18:56 -0400, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 2:03 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 12:52 PM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 1:26 PM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 11:07 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 10:52 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:05 AM, AMuzi wrote:

On 9/26/2025 6:40 AM, zen cycle wrote:

On 9/25/2025 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received this >>>>>>>>>> report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of- using- forced- >>>>>>>>>> labor- cbp- issues-withhold-release- order-on- brands- products/ >>>>>>>>>>
So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or an >>>>>>>>>> actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta intimates >>>>>>>>>> that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric >>>>>>>>>> bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the CCP >>>>>>>>>> to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared, for me >>>>>>>>>> anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor- abuse- >>>>>>>>>> scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam, >>>>>>>>>> Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following- the- thread/ >>>>>>>>>

Probably someone a CBP taking a page out of the Homan playbook >>>>>>>>

Mr Homan is quite rigorous about enforcing federal statutes as >>>>>>>> written, so that would be a compliment.

Sure, as long as it involves dining at Cava.

I'm not sure in this case if the complaint is a fabrication or a >>>>>>>> proper response to an actual problem.

follow the money.

Cava? What?

https://cava.com/menu

That? I don't get it.

Don't play dumb, Andrew. I don't believe you haven't heard about
Homan and the Cava bag, and if you haven't you have no one to blame >>>>> but yourself.

I did not remember the restaurant name. meh.

https://nypost.com/2025/09/22/us-news/feds-end-probe-into- tom-homan- >>>> over-alleged-bribe-in-cava-bag/

yeah, someone accepting $50K in a paper bag from a federal agent on
the promise of steering federal contracts their way is a nothing-
burger....

fwiw - it doesn't matter if he was a member of the administration at
the time or not. Accepting $50K on the promise of steering federal
contracts their way is a crime, it's little different than accepting
money to commit a murder whether an attempt of murder was made or not.
Homan accepted a bribe and trump made it go away.

This is another case of the most blatantly criminal enterprise
functioning out of the whitehouse this nation as ever seen.

I really hope you're enjoying the conversion of the US government to a
fucking clown show - nothing biden was ever even accused of comes
close to what trump is being given approval for by the magatard base.

Gee, I wonder whatever happened to all those cats in Springfield
(fucking idiots).

Let's posit that you are right on the facts for a moment.

Tell me why Merrick Garland did not prosecute.

This was a pretty vapid attempt by you to shift blame from this >administration, but for the benefit of those who may be _actually_
ignorant of the situation:

The bribe occurred on september 20, 2024 on the promise that the
contracts would be awarded after the potential change in the
administration. The charges for acting on the bribe promise are much
more severe than taking money and doing nothing (to reiterate, both are >crimes). Any operation like this is allowed to run its course, and after >trump won the election there was still the missing part of the equation.
I'm also quite sure Mr. Garland didn't anticipate such a morally
bankrupt overhaul of the american justice system and likely anticipated
the investigation would have been followed through given that they have >video tape and testimony proving that homan took the money.

But, we have an FBI director more interested in writing childrens books
that paint the president as some sort of Mr. Rogers character and >prosecuting based on political affiliation rather than the preponderance
of evidence and an attorney general who took a $25K bribe from trump
when she was the AG for floriduh during trumps 1st presidential
campaign. It's no wonder they're giving homan a pass, but the pass isn't >because there is no crime - contrary to the lies being told by senior >administration officials. The pass is because homan is a loyalist.

It's comical listening to people who are still under some delusion that >these fucking criminals are cleaning up washington, when they're filling >what was a swamp with toxic waste.

Bitcoin any one?

Who??? has has video tape and testimony proving that Homan took the
money?

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:23:08 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused >>>> or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865. >>>https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked >>across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain
to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S.
Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 07:36:16 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:23 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/

This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It
can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused >>>> or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865.
https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked
across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"
--
cheers,

John B.

No, it's larger than that.

People here illegally are especially vulnerable to extortion
and forced labor. Not only sexual slavery although that is
huge.

https://lawjournalforsocialjustice.com/2025/02/05/the-hidden-exploitation-of-immigrant-labor-in-underprivileged-communities/

example:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10-illegal-migrant-kids-found-at-california-pot-farm-as-feds-launch-child-labor-probe/ar-AA1Irahc

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/

Oh the horror stories :-)

I've worked closely with the son of a illegal Mexican immigrant
family - born in U.S. and thus a citizen - and a number of
Cambodian, Laos and Burmese, and every one knew more about the
conditions they could expect in their "new country" then I did. The
concept of the poor, innocent, illegal, immigrant. is wrong as they,
at least in the cases I am familiar, with the knew exactly what they
were getting into - basically a better life.

Do a study, ask a hundred of these poor deprived, ill treated,
illegal's "do you want to go back" and you will get a resounding NO!
--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 17:48:15 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 18:23:08 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/ >>>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It >>>>> can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused >>>>> or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865. >>>>https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked >>>across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems >>>more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't >>>it"

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain
to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S.
Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?

That depends on the situation, but they are being offered a free trip
back. It could be that the debt payment might still be required when
they get back.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 18:18:25 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 07:36:16 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 8:23 PM, John B. wrote:

On Fri, 26 Sep 2025 10:14:33 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/26/2025 9:54 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 17:25:53 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>>

I saw a small news item on this yesterday, then received
this report today:

https://bikerumor.com/giant-bicycles-accused-of-using-forced-labor-cbp-issues-withhold-release-order-on-brands-products/

So I wondered if this is posturing by our administration or
an actual problem. Here's a local ROC paper which sorta
intimates that there is a real problem, but no specifics.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/6207757

So maybe, maybe not and I still don't know the scale or
severity of it, if any.

Given Taiwan ROC, probably less cruel by comparison than
enslaved children mining cobalt in Congo for your electric
bicycle or enslaved Uighers making various products for the
CCP to sell at WalMart. But no details have yet appeared,
for me anyway.

p.s.
Other industries have been accused as well this year:

https://urbananews.ca/taiwan-fishing-industry-labor-abuse-scandal/ >>>>>>
This report accuses ROC firms of labor abuse in Viet Nam,
Philippines, Indonesia & Thailand:

https://transparentem.org/report/taiwan-following-the-thread/

One does not need to look at Taiwan for evidence of labor abuse. It >>>>> can easily be found in the US construction industry:

"Risk and Protective Factors for Experiencing Labor Trafficking and
Other Labor Abuse in the Construction Industry"
<https://acf.gov/opre/report/risk-and-protective-factors-experiencing-labor-trafficking-and-other-labor-abuse>
<https://acf.gov/sites/default/files/documents/opre/opre-HTPRAP-risk_protective-factors-oct24.pdf>
"Nearly two-thirds (64%) of construction workers reported being abused >>>>> or exploited while working in the industry - 22% experienced labor
trafficking and an additional 42% experienced other abuse or
exploitation that did not rise to the level of trafficking."

Yes and not only. There is more slavery in USA now than in
1865.
https://www.walkfree.org/news/2025/eradicating-modern-slavery-in-the-united-states-is-a-bipartisan-responsibility/>So what makes the Taiwan ROC action compelling? I don't know.

Your reverence seems to be in reference to illegal workers who sneaked
across the U.S border and are in the U.S. illegally. The problem seems
more a legal matter of catching them and sending them back home, isn't
it"
--
cheers,

John B.

No, it's larger than that.

People here illegally are especially vulnerable to extortion
and forced labor. Not only sexual slavery although that is
huge.

https://lawjournalforsocialjustice.com/2025/02/05/the-hidden-exploitation-of-immigrant-labor-in-underprivileged-communities/

example:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/10-illegal-migrant-kids-found-at-california-pot-farm-as-feds-launch-child-labor-probe/ar-AA1Irahc
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116344/documents/HHRG-118-JU08-20230913-SD003.pdf
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-obama-administration-children-human-traffickers/

Oh the horror stories :-)

I've worked closely with the son of a illegal Mexican immigrant
family - born in U.S. and thus a citizen - and a number of
Cambodian, Laos and Burmese, and every one knew more about the
conditions they could expect in their "new country" then I did. The
concept of the poor, innocent, illegal, immigrant. is wrong as they,
at least in the cases I am familiar, with the knew exactly what they
were getting into - basically a better life.

Do a study, ask a hundred of these poor deprived, ill treated,
illegal's "do you want to go back" and you will get a resounding NO!

Many are accepting the free trip back home offer.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 06:06:10 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 17:48:15 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

(...)

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain
to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S.
Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?

That depends on the situation, but they are being offered a free trip
back. It could be that the debt payment might still be required when
they get back.

Who is offering to pay for the free trip back to Mexico (or wherever)?
Are you referring to this DHS offer? Also, a $1,000 "exit bonus" to
sweeten the offer.

<https://www.dhs.gov/cbphome>
"The Department of Homeland Security has announced a historic
opportunity for illegal aliens to receive cost-free travel,
forgiveness of any failure to depart fines, and a $1,000 exit bonus to facilitate travel back to their home country or another country where
they have lawful status through the CBP Home Mobile App."

There are an estimated 14 million illegal aliens in the US as of 2023: <https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/>
If all of them decided it was time to self-deport, that would $14
billion in "exit bonus" payments (not including cost of transportation
and administrative expenses). If we consider only those without
deportation protection, that would be reduced to $8 billion.

Note that the recent increase in unauthorized immigration is from
countries other than Mexico:
"U.S. unauthorized immigrant population from countries other than
Mexico grew sharply from 2021 to 2023" <https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/08/RE_2025.08.21_unauthorized-immigrants_0-04.png>
Add more billions to pay for the air faire (1st class, of course).
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272 AE6KS 831-336-2558

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 10:21:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 06:06:10 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 17:48:15 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder >>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

(...)

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain >>>>to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S.
Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?

That depends on the situation, but they are being offered a free trip
back. It could be that the debt payment might still be required when
they get back.

Who is offering to pay for the free trip back to Mexico (or wherever)?
Are you referring to this DHS offer? Also, a $1,000 "exit bonus" to
sweeten the offer.

<https://www.dhs.gov/cbphome>
"The Department of Homeland Security has announced a historic
opportunity for illegal aliens to receive cost-free travel,
forgiveness of any failure to depart fines, and a $1,000 exit bonus to >facilitate travel back to their home country or another country where
they have lawful status through the CBP Home Mobile App."

There are an estimated 14 million illegal aliens in the US as of 2023: ><https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/>
If all of them decided it was time to self-deport, that would $14
billion in "exit bonus" payments (not including cost of transportation
and administrative expenses). If we consider only those without
deportation protection, that would be reduced to $8 billion.

Note that the recent increase in unauthorized immigration is from
countries other than Mexico:
"U.S. unauthorized immigrant population from countries other than
Mexico grew sharply from 2021 to 2023" ><https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/08/RE_2025.08.21_unauthorized-immigrants_0-04.png>
Add more billions to pay for the air faire (1st class, of course).

Yes, the Department of Homeland Security offer is the one I was
talking about. Seems to me to be a much better option than getting
deported.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On 9/28/2025 1:45 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 10:21:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 06:06:10 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 17:48:15 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

(...)

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain >>>>> to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S.
Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?

That depends on the situation, but they are being offered a free trip
back. It could be that the debt payment might still be required when
they get back.

Who is offering to pay for the free trip back to Mexico (or wherever)?
Are you referring to this DHS offer? Also, a $1,000 "exit bonus" to
sweeten the offer.

<https://www.dhs.gov/cbphome>
"The Department of Homeland Security has announced a historic
opportunity for illegal aliens to receive cost-free travel,
forgiveness of any failure to depart fines, and a $1,000 exit bonus to
facilitate travel back to their home country or another country where
they have lawful status through the CBP Home Mobile App."

There are an estimated 14 million illegal aliens in the US as of 2023:
<https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/>
If all of them decided it was time to self-deport, that would $14
billion in "exit bonus" payments (not including cost of transportation
and administrative expenses). If we consider only those without
deportation protection, that would be reduced to $8 billion.

Note that the recent increase in unauthorized immigration is from
countries other than Mexico:
"U.S. unauthorized immigrant population from countries other than
Mexico grew sharply from 2021 to 2023"
<https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/08/RE_2025.08.21_unauthorized-immigrants_0-04.png>
Add more billions to pay for the air faire (1st class, of course).

Yes, the Department of Homeland Security offer is the one I was
talking about. Seems to me to be a much better option than getting
deported.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

Although an expense, putatively a lot less than social
services or imprisonment.

DHS thinks about 1.6 million illegals have either left or
been deported so far, which is something but not yet
significant.

Mr Liebermann's quoted population of 14 million illegals is
at the very lowest end of estimates (the actual number is
inherently unknowable). Most estimates are double that,
some as high as 35 million but again unknowable.
--
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 14:01:57 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

On 9/28/2025 1:45 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 10:21:29 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 06:06:10 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 17:48:15 -0700, John B.
<jbslocomb@fictitious.site> wrote:

On Sat, 27 Sep 2025 05:25:20 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

(...)

One of the problems is that the illegals are in debt to the
traffickers for sneaking them in. They are also reluctant to complain >>>>>> to authorities for fear of being deported.

Certainly true BUT are they feel better or worse treated in the U.S. >>>>> Or to put it more clearly is the treatment that the receive in the
U,S. unsatisfactory to them? Would they be treated better, or more
kindly in their native country?

That depends on the situation, but they are being offered a free trip
back. It could be that the debt payment might still be required when
they get back.

Who is offering to pay for the free trip back to Mexico (or wherever)?
Are you referring to this DHS offer? Also, a $1,000 "exit bonus" to
sweeten the offer.

<https://www.dhs.gov/cbphome>
"The Department of Homeland Security has announced a historic
opportunity for illegal aliens to receive cost-free travel,
forgiveness of any failure to depart fines, and a $1,000 exit bonus to
facilitate travel back to their home country or another country where
they have lawful status through the CBP Home Mobile App."

There are an estimated 14 million illegal aliens in the US as of 2023:
<https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2025/08/21/u-s-unauthorized-immigrant-population-reached-a-record-14-million-in-2023/>
If all of them decided it was time to self-deport, that would $14
billion in "exit bonus" payments (not including cost of transportation
and administrative expenses). If we consider only those without
deportation protection, that would be reduced to $8 billion.

Note that the recent increase in unauthorized immigration is from
countries other than Mexico:
"U.S. unauthorized immigrant population from countries other than
Mexico grew sharply from 2021 to 2023"
<https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2025/08/RE_2025.08.21_unauthorized-immigrants_0-04.png>
Add more billions to pay for the air faire (1st class, of course).

Yes, the Department of Homeland Security offer is the one I was
talking about. Seems to me to be a much better option than getting
deported.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

Although an expense, putatively a lot less than social
services or imprisonment.

DHS thinks about 1.6 million illegals have either left or
been deported so far, which is something but not yet
significant.

Mr Liebermann's quoted population of 14 million illegals is
at the very lowest end of estimates (the actual number is
inherently unknowable). Most estimates are double that,
some as high as 35 million but again unknowable.

So really the problem would seem to be "why all the illegal?". Perhaps
a solution would to do as in Thailand,,, If you are caught employing
an Illegal then the illegal is deported but a substantial fine is
levied on the individual/company that had employed him.
As much as 100,000 Baht, about equal to 200 days salary at minimum
legal salary rates.

--
cheers,

John B.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2