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On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.
I get that feeling too at times.
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur LipscombI actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D >>
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads. I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2, but then again, all the sequels after T2 ignored T2.
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
-a On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
-a <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
-a Hello All,-a Oh, my GOD!-a-a You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and >>>> all the
-a Apparently my absence was noticed.-a Let me briefly explain.
Basically,
-a I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was
reading in
-a this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what >>>>> kill
-a files are for.-a But at a certain point I was tired of all the
negativity
-a and decided I didn't want to read any more.-a And the next day and >>>>> the
-a next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here.
Although I
-a did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity.-a And then I >>>>> went
-a on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>
-a Let me try to catch up.
-a There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the
highlights:
-a While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
-a Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid
negativity?-a :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies.-a I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK
FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which
goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet.-a Or
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen.-a I guess you can say
alternate timeline, but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down.-a The first movie said they only sent one person back in time.-a That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
-aNow it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple timelines.-a-a Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
On 8/24/2025 4:08 PM, Arthur Lipscomb wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
-a On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
-a <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
-a Hello All,-a Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid
-a Apparently my absence was noticed.-a Let me briefly explain.
Basically,
-a I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was
reading in
-a this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's
what kill
-a files are for.-a But at a certain point I was tired of all the >>>>>> negativity
-a and decided I didn't want to read any more.-a And the next day >>>>>> and the
-a next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here.
Although I
-a did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity.-a And then >>>>>> I went
-a on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>
-a Let me try to catch up.
-a There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the
highlights:
-a While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>> -a Oh, my GOD!-a-a You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and >>>>> all the
negativity?-a :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies.-a I'm not saying they are as >>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK
FATE that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which
goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet.
Or if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a
U.S. senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen.-a I guess you can say
alternate timeline, but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down.-a The
first movie said they only sent one person back in time.-a That movie
made money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back
in time. -a-aNow it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through
multiple timelines.-a-a Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and
Genisys.
The TV series actually addressed this.-a A couple of the future
resistance fighters who had been sent to the "present" talked about the differences in their timelines from each other's.
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they
ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a >> long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
Arthur Lipscomb <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in >>>> this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity >>>> and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks.
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights: >>>>
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as
good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads. I was also not
happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2, but then again, all the
sequels after T2 ignored T2.
What about the TV series?
I'm always amazed at people who manage to be both physically and
mentally active in their 90s. I watched a video of Herb Alpert in a
music video who was in his 80s at the time and is on tour now in his
90s. Amazing.
There are a lot of people who used to post here who have left over the >years. I'd say that won't be me I'm going to power through. But now I
know how they felt. LOL. Must have something to do with getting older
and having less patience.
The way I deal with crossposted political threads is to subscribe to
certain newsgroups I don't want to read that account for nearly all the >crossposting into rec.arts.tv. I junk all the articles in those groups,
which also junks their corresponding article number in groups they were >crossposted to. My newsreader has that feature; not all newsreaders will
mark an article as read in each group in the crosspost with one action.
I read rec.arts.tv last; nearly all the off topic crossposts are already >junked.
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 20:29:55 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb ><arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
There are a lot of people who used to post here who have left over the >>years. I'd say that won't be me I'm going to power through. But now I >>know how they felt. LOL. Must have something to do with getting older >>and having less patience.Don't let the bastards drag you down - I first posted to Usenet in
1992 and have been an opinionated SOB ever since :) (Before that I had
spent 10 years on local dial-up bulletin boards)
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:50:50 -0400, shawn
<nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
I'm always amazed at people who manage to be both physically and
mentally active in their 90s. I watched a video of Herb Alpert in a
music video who was in his 80s at the time and is on tour now in his
90s. Amazing.
My grandmother didn't learn how to ride a bike until age 65 then rode
for 20 years. What finally did her in at 91 was getting hip checked by
a woman in a walker who didn't have it fully under control,
hip-checked her with her walker which caused her to fall and break her
hip (her 3rd time but she had recovered from the first two)
I've been away for a week (anybody miss me?)
after flying off to--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Ontario along with the rest of the family on the west coast and in
England for my mother in law's 90th. Only 3 of my clan didn't make it
to 80 - one was my paternal grandfather who made it to 71 despite
being a 2 pack a day unfiltered home rolled smoker for 40 years (and
if you guess the cause of death you're almost certainly right) my
father at 79 who had dementia issues and my mother who was run over by
a runaway motor home at 75.
Family odds are by no means perfect but I am hopeful.
(Depending on which doctor you believe my wife - who was a strict
anti-vaxxer - either died of COVID or heart failure at 65)
Statistics are helpful but not predictive - my mother was well on
target to outdo her mother and was in excellent shape when the motor
home struck her.
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.
but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first
movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time.
Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
Continuity must bend the needs of studio bank accounts.
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>> senator.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill
files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the
next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went
on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>>
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for >>>>> unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by
the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE
that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which >>>> goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>
True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet because Judgement Day never happens.
At some point in a not too distant
future, a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth protector *also* sent back to protect John?
Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.
So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.
It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.
But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.
They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.
The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.
I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.
And that explains everything I said above.but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first >>> movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
Continuity must bend to the needs of studio bank accounts.
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur LipscombI actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically, >>>>>>> I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I >>>>>>> did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies.
Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the >>>>>> Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D >>>>>
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>> senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.
True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet because Judgement Day never happens. At some point in a not too distant future,
a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth protector *also* sent back to protect John? Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.
So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.
It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.
But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.
They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.
The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.
I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.
but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first
movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
Continuity must bend the needs of studio bank accounts.
And that explains everything I said above.
On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb" <arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>> senator.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/23/2025 5:51 PM, EGK wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 19:37:11 -0700, Arthur Lipscomb
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
Hello All,Oh, my GOD! You watched all the Terminator movies after T2 and all the
Apparently my absence was noticed. Let me briefly explain. Basically,
I just got fed up with all the hate and negativity that I was reading in
this group. I know it's nothing new in this group and that's what kill >>>>>>>> files are for. But at a certain point I was tired of all the negativity
and decided I didn't want to read any more. And the next day and the >>>>>>>> next, and after a while I just kept not wanting to be here. Although I
did miss the group, I didn't miss all the negativity. And then I went >>>>>>>> on vacation and that extended my time away by a couple more weeks. >>>>>>>>
Let me try to catch up.
There's too much to say everything, but here are some of the highlights:
While I was away I watched all the Terminator and Matrix movies. >>>>>>>
Matrix movies after the first and you're trying to avoid negativity? :D
I actually like all the Terminator movies. I'm not saying they are as >>>>>> good as T2, but I definitely found entertainment value in them.
Although I remain extremely annoyed with "Terminator Genisys" for
unnecessarily rebooting the franchise, then it was of course ignored by >>>>>> the next one, leaving multiple unresolved plot threads.
The folks who made DARK FATE said that it's a direct sequel to T2; they >>>>> ignored all the movies after T2 as if they didn't exist. It was DARK FATE >>>>> that
was a true reboot of the franchise.
(A sentiment echoed by the producers of ALIEN: EARTH, fyi. They've
chosen to
exclude PROMETHEUS and COVENANT from the canon of the TV show, which >>>>> goes a
long way to explaining conflicts in the timeline.)
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance >>> against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>
True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that
T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be
prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will
always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads
the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet
because Judgement Day never happens.
Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she tells us that JD never happened
unclear whether that's canon in the Terminator Cinematic Universe or not.
At some point in a not too distant
future, a different AI destroys the world. OK. So what sent back the
3rd Terminator that killed John? Why wasn't a third, fourth, fifth
protector *also* sent back to protect John?
Yes, that's the question I had. I assumed that the Resistance just didn't know
about all of Skynet's assassins and just countered the ones they could.
Skynet doesn't exist and
Legion is a whole other AI that has nothing to do with the Connor
family. Schwarzenegger's model doesn't even exist in the Legion timeline.
So the in movie explanation is he's from a failed timeline. But what
timeline? In order for the timeline to fail, it has to first have
existed. The Skynet timeline was terminated (pun intended) by the
events of T2. If there was an unseen timeline that sent the alternate
Schwarzenegger model, well that timeline did succeed in killing John.
John isn't necessary for the creation of Skynet. So he's living or
dying is irrelevant from the position of creating Skynet.
All these are good questions but they're questions that inevitably result from
any time travel/causality story. The very fact that they're inexplicable paradoxes is one of the reasons time travel is thought to be impossible. I don't count that as a strike against the movie.
It should be skynet in the future, not Legion.
But the plot hole gets bigger. Because if there was only the third
Schwarzenegger model that went back and killed John, OK, you can
fanwank that away as that's the failed timeline. Whatever. Except we
know from dialogue in the movie that there were *multiple* terminators
that continued to be sent through time and Sarah was killing them for
years. So whose sending them back through time? It has to be either
Skynet or Legion.
They didn't think this through. If Skynet succeeds in killing John.
He's not there to lead the resistance. Skynet wins. If there is an
alternate timeline where Skynet does not exist, then Skynet can't have
sent the third (or the first two really) Terminators back through time
to kill John.
The first movie is a closed timeloop. It works perfectly that way. The
second movie nudges things a little, but remains a closed timeloop.
After that it becomes an open timeline, but it's build on the foundation
of the closed timeloop from the first two movies. And it doesn't make
sense anymore.
I'm not saying you can't have multiple timelines. There's an infinite
number of AIs popping up and an infinite number of future leaders that
destroy them. Wash, repeat. I'm just saying multiple timelines
spawning from a closed loop timelines doesn't make sense. It's one or
the other.
And that explains everything I said above.but I still want to know from what future are all
these Terminators being sent from that Sarah is hunting down. The first >>>> movie said they only sent one person back in time. That movie made
money so it got retconned to only two protectors were sent back in time. >>>> Now it seems like Skynet sent infinite Terminators through multiple
timelines. Which is the same issue you get with both T3 and Genisys.
Continuity must bend to the needs of studio bank accounts.
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>>> senator.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>>
to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't
they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>> the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>> because Judgement Day never happens.
Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >> tells us that JD never happened
The version I vastly prefer.
On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:BTW, happy anniversary of SkynetrCOs moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S. >>>>>> senator.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2
How did it ignore T2?
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say
alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion. >>>>>
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>> the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>> because Judgement Day never happens.
Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >>> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>> tells us that JD never happened
The version I vastly prefer.
29th, 1997)
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote: >>
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:BTW, happy anniversary of SkynetrCOs moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or >>>>>>> if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2 >>>>>>>>How did it ignore T2?
senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say >>>>>>> alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.
how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>>> the resistance.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>>> because Judgement Day never happens.
Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is >>>> prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>>> tells us that JD never happened
The version I vastly prefer.
29th, 1997)
The exact moment I regained posting ability
On 8/29/2025 5:49 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:Thereby proving that Skynet's kryptonite is your cable company.
On Aug 29, 2025 at 10:33:29 AM PDT, "anim8rfsk" <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote: >>>
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:BTW, happy anniversary of SkynetrCOs moment of self-awareness! (2:14AM - August
On Aug 29, 2025 at 9:24:23 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/25/2025 10:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 4:08:47 PM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"True. But there is still a hole in the logic. Assume for a moment, that >>>>>> T3 is cannon. I know Dark Fate ignores T3, but there's a point I want >>>>>> to get to. In T3 they discuss the events of T2, and John says, didn't >>>>>> they prevent Judgement Day. Schwarzenegger says Judgement Day can't be >>>>>> prevented. It will always happen no matter what. And that explains >>>>>> how/why his terminator was sent from the future. If judgement day will >>>>>> always happen no matter what, then Skynet exists and John Connor leads >>>>>> the resistance.
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
On 8/24/2025 10:10 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
On Aug 24, 2025 at 9:17:18 AM PDT, "Arthur Lipscomb"John Connor growing up to lead the human resistance against Skynet. Or
<arthur@alum.calberkeley.org> wrote:
I was also not happy with "Terminator: Dark Fate" ignoring T2 >>>>>>>>>How did it ignore T2?
if you go with the alternate ending, John Connor growing up to be a U.S.
senator.
According to Dark Fate that doesn't happen. I guess you can say >>>>>>>> alternate timeline,
Yeah, that's what it was. Not only did John Connor not lead the resistance
against Skynet, there was no Skynet. It was a different AI called Legion.
But Dark Fate ignores T3. T3 never happened. So in T2 they
successfully destroy Skynet. We know they successfully destroy Skynet >>>>>> because Judgement Day never happens.
Well, that depends on what version of the movie you watch. In the version >>>>> that
99% of the people saw in the theater, it's unknown whether Judgment Day is
prevented or not. The scene with Grandma Sarah and Senator John where she >>>>> tells us that JD never happened
The version I vastly prefer.
29th, 1997)
The exact moment I regained posting ability