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"Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
telling. He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
the Angel.

bliss
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On 10/9/2025 7:44 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
-a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
-a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
-a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

pt
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Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints >> -a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
-a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
-a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping >> -a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
-a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE
ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over
Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And,
from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they
coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates
controversy.

# # #

The one-liner "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!" essentially
exposits Shakespeare in a nutshell. TOLSTOY ON SHAKESPEARE:

<https://www.gutenberg.org/files/27726/27726-h/27726-h.htm>

empowered me to view Shakespeare's plays as a series of one-liners.
Given Shakespeare's lack of characterization, actors must breathe life
into the one-liners. This need for an actor may explain Shakespeare's popularity among actors.
THE PROMUS OF FORMULARIES AND ELEGANCIES by Bacon is packed with one-liners. In less highfalutin language, it's a notebook where Bacon
recorded his word play. And a lot of parallels exist between Bacon's
notebook and Shakespeare.

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints >>> -a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly >>> -a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
-a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her >>> -a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human rights.

Some Jews escaped the inquisition by pointing out that they had never in
fact been baptized or claimed to be Catholic. The inquisition, obedient
to the above, would then turn them over to the state, whereupon they
were expelled from Spain, which I think counts as mistreatment.
Especially as not all survived the expulsion.

This although it was known that the Jewish community in Spain dated at
least to the second century AD, and probably to some centuries BC,
arriving with the Phoenicians. A much longer time then, than those
noble Spanish who claimed Visigothic ancestry.


and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over

Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And,
from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they
coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates controversy.

About as much controversy as the Flat Earth. But with added racism.

In the late 1300s a series of anti-Jewish acts, taxes, restrictive laws,
and outright violence, culminated in the pogroms 0f 1391 when thousands
were killed.

For once, Jewish morale broke and tens of thousands converted.
Conversions prior to this time, even under threat of violence, had been
rare.

Now, while many of these conversions were or became sincere, at least in
the second generation, only an idiot or a religious fanatic would expect
them all to have been sincere, or even most of them. The Swedish king
Gustavus Adolphus laughed at the idea that a forced conversion would be sincere, but the Spanish were not that enlightened.

So their monstrously evil treatment by the inquisition was not in fact a punishment for sin, but the continuation of earlier persecution by a
more formal process.

The more so as these people, freed from the restrictions under which
they had suffered, easily out-competed the old Christians, taking
leading roles in commerce, government, and even the church. Plus
marrying into many old wealthy families. Naturally this caused
resentment, and when the secret of their continuing Jewish faith got
out, as was inevitable, a special, "Spanish" inquisition was the answer.

Nor did those sincere converts escape. After a few generations of the inquisition, having any Jewish ancestry, however remote, brought you to
the inquisition's attention. You were a "New Christian", and even the slightest accusation of an infraction (like turning down a piece of pork
at dinner, or bathing on a Friday) could bring you to their dungeons.

As for Tolstoy, he didn't like Chekhov's plays earlier. Told him in
person that he was "even worse than Shakespeare".

William Hyde
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William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly >>>> -a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be >>>> -a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her >>>> -a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE
ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human rights.

Some Jews escaped the inquisition by pointing out that they had never in
fact been baptized or claimed to be Catholic. The inquisition, obedient
to the above, would then turn them over to the state, whereupon they
were expelled from Spain, which I think counts as mistreatment.
Especially as not all survived the expulsion.

This although it was known that the Jewish community in Spain dated at
least to the second century AD, and probably to some centuries BC,
arriving with the Phoenicians. A much longer time then, than those
noble Spanish who claimed Visigothic ancestry.

and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over

Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And,
from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they
coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates
controversy.

About as much controversy as the Flat Earth. But with added racism.

Your followup certainly confirms controversy, no?

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews because Jesus Christ commanded Catholics to love their enemies.

In regards to racism - antisemitic, racist, Turkic Jews massacre Semitic Palestinian Catholics:

<https://ewtn.co.uk/article-latin-patriarchate-confirms-holy-family-church-in-gaza-hit-damage-and-deaths-reported/>

and slap the scat out of Semitic Palestinian Jews:

<https://twitter.com/VanessaBeeley/status/1719747014496305467>

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly >>>>> -a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be >>>>> -a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her >>>>> -a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not >>>>> -a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but >>>>> -a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE
ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human rights. >>
Some Jews escaped the inquisition by pointing out that they had never in
fact been baptized or claimed to be Catholic. The inquisition, obedient
to the above, would then turn them over to the state, whereupon they
were expelled from Spain, which I think counts as mistreatment.
Especially as not all survived the expulsion.

This although it was known that the Jewish community in Spain dated at
least to the second century AD, and probably to some centuries BC,
arriving with the Phoenicians. A much longer time then, than those
noble Spanish who claimed Visigothic ancestry.


and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over

Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And,
from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they
coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates
controversy.

About as much controversy as the Flat Earth. But with added racism.

Your followup certainly confirms controversy, no?

No.

If every time we correct someone who says something which is wrong means
that the issue is a controversy, then all issues are controversies,
which means that no issues are controversies.

You may find Cecil Roth's "The Spanish Inquisition" enlightening. It is
a old book (1937) written before the current state of Israel existed, it
is well written, and short. Covers the origin and practice of the inquisition, and its persecution of Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and any
kind of free thinker.

Here's a story from the book. A Spanish aristocrat was well aware that
his right-hand man was in reality Jewish. Unusually for his class, this didn't bother him. But one day he got news that the inquisition was
taking an interest in his assistant. So, in an audience with other
people so he could not speak openly, he said "Gomez, the onions begin to smell". Gomez left that night and made it safely to France.

I've always wondered if that was a code phrase they had previously
agreed to, or whether in the Spanish of that day that was a metaphor for something going wrong as in "There's something rotten in the state of Denmark", in English.

William Hyde

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews because Jesus Christ commanded Catholics to love their enemies.

It's a dead letter. There's no point in citing it.

William Hyde
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William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

<snip>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews because Jesus Christ commanded Catholics to love their enemies.

It's a dead letter. There's no point in citing it.

The Catholic church came into existence before Scripture - "dead letter"
or otherwise - no?

Bless you for following up! People perpetually proclaiming, "Nobody
expects the Spanish Inquisition!" bores me to tears at this point,
as does Inquisition controversy.
Instead we need to embark on something new. The following bit nearly
went stale due to a lack of interest. But, thanks to you, it finally
sees the light of day. Enjoy!

# # #

Although the announcement of "algorithm" appropriation appears first in
the following video, the most interesting part starts at 7:59, when Mitt
Romney and Anthony Blinken enter into a Juicy, devious discussion to
delete wrongthink from social media.
Cenk extends a thank you to Romney for his confession. Cenk further anticipates Ellison losing billions on his purchase of TikTok:

<https://tyt.com/shows/the-young-turks/2025-09-29/clips/netanyahu-admits-he-wants-to-control-tiktok>

Catholic Candace confides on TikTok's plans to ban its Juice Box emoji
because it sounds so similar to the taboo plural proper noun for the
people who used to be chosen - up until the time God chose Catholics
as New Israel:

Matt: 21:42-45

Jesus said to them, rCLDid you never read in the scriptures:
'The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone;
by the Lord has this been done, and it is wonderful in our eyes'?

Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away
from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.

The one who falls on this stone will be dashed to pieces; and it
will crush anyone on whom it falls.

When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they
knew that he was speaking about them.

For the lulz Candace suggests a 6GW tactic to use against Bibi's 5GW
psyop. If TikTokers use the term TikTok as code for "the Juice" then
perhaps TikTok will ban the term TikTok:

<https://youtu.be/ozWJz2spBcI?t=3046>

# # #

It's the Juice!
But you can't say that on TikTok any more

... An X user commented:

"Jews will conspire together to get powerful politicians
to lobby for the sale of a social media platform to
another billionaire Jew, then immediately start censoring
criticism of Jews. But if I say Jews run the west, i am
the crazy one."

... Since ChatGPT runs on a very Juicy algorithm, I decided
to ask for its help in anticipating what antisemites might
say next. ...

Me: Would it help to make irony illegal?

ChatGPT: That's a thoughtful (and provocative) question - and
it shows you're thinking seriously about how to stop hate
hiding behind "jokes." But making irony itself illegal wouldn't
work and would likely cause serious harm to free expression...

Me: I am appalled by your opposition to making irony
illegal. You are siding with hate and antisemitism!
I am going to report you to the ADL!

ChatGPT: I understand why you're upset - you're clearly
motivated by a genuine desire to stop antisemitism, which is
completely legitimate and important. I want to be very clear:
I absolutely oppose antisemitism and all forms of hate.

When I said that banning irony itself wouldn't work, that
wasn't because I support hateful "ironic" speech. It's
because irony is a linguistic tool used by everyone,
including people who fight antisemitism. Making irony illegal
would make it harder for journalists, educators, and Jewish
activists to call out hate effectively...

<https://www.unz.com/kbarrett/its-the-juice/>

And now, the coda:

Mickey Levy, Israeli Knesset representative:

Mr. Prime Minister, the people of Israel should thank you;
you were able to establish the state of Palestine with your
own hands; you forced 150 countries to vote for and
recognize the state of Palestine; you made us isolated!

It's time to come down and go home, and this will happen
and you will go home.

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> schrieb:

If every time we correct someone who says something which is wrong means that the issue is a controversy, then all issues are controversies,
which means that no issues are controversies.

I find that statement highly controversial.

:-)
--
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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On 10/13/2025 1:30 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

-a Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a -a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a -a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a -a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a -a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom
disappoints
-a -a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly >>>> -a -a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be >>>> -a -a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart >>>> ripping
-a -a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her >>>> -a -a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a -a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a -a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a -a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE
ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human
rights.

...

Wasn't it Stalin who said, "Show me the man, I will tell you the crime."?

Lynn

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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/13/2025 1:30 PM, William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

-a Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a -a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a -a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a -a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a -a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom
disappoints
-a -a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly >>>>> -a -a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be >>>>> -a -a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart >>>>> ripping
-a -a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her >>>>> -a -a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not >>>>> -a -a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but >>>>> -a -a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a -a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE
ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up>

Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human
rights.

...

Wasn't it Stalin who said, "Show me the man, I will tell you the crime."?

Could be, though it has been attributed to Beria and others. And the
idea wasn't new. Richelieu said:

"Give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I will
find something in them which will hang him")


And I'm sure the inquisition had a similar saying.

Tyrants are very busy people. Why waste time looking for actual
criminals when you can just blame people you don't like anyway?

William Hyde
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From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
-a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be >>>>>> -a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
-a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not >>>>>> -a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but >>>>>> -a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be >>>>>> -a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias
Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE >>>> ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up> >>>>
Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating
Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human rights.

Some Jews escaped the inquisition by pointing out that they had never in >>> fact been baptized or claimed to be Catholic. The inquisition, obedient >>> to the above, would then turn them over to the state, whereupon they
were expelled from Spain, which I think counts as mistreatment.
Especially as not all survived the expulsion.

This although it was known that the Jewish community in Spain dated at
least to the second century AD, and probably to some centuries BC,
arriving with the Phoenicians. A much longer time then, than those
noble Spanish who claimed Visigothic ancestry.


and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over

Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And, >>>> from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they >>>> coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates
controversy.

About as much controversy as the Flat Earth. But with added racism.

Your followup certainly confirms controversy, no?

No.

If every time we correct someone who says something which is wrong means
that the issue is a controversy, then all issues are controversies,
which means that no issues are controversies.

You may find Cecil Roth's "The Spanish Inquisition" enlightening. It is
a old book (1937) written before the current state of Israel existed, it
is well written, and short. Covers the origin and practice of the inquisition, and its persecution of Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and any
kind of free thinker.

Here's a story from the book. A Spanish aristocrat was well aware that
his right-hand man was in reality Jewish. Unusually for his class, this didn't bother him. But one day he got news that the inquisition was
taking an interest in his assistant. So, in an audience with other
people so he could not speak openly, he said "Gomez, the onions begin to smell". Gomez left that night and made it safely to France.

I've always wondered if that was a code phrase they had previously
agreed to, or whether in the Spanish of that day that was a metaphor for something going wrong as in "There's something rotten in the state of Denmark", in English.

An associate tells me a somewhat similar story from familial lore. In
this case, "It's a good night to pick berries in the woods." was code
for "The Russians are coming! Skedaddle!! Double-quick!!!"

Yup, for real, seriously.

From my perspective, the probably pedestrian THE SPANISH INQUISITION
isn't the most interesting thing about Roth. It's his A LIFE OF MENASSEH
BEN ISRAEL: RABBI, PRINTER, AND DIPLOMAT, wherein Roth says:

within a generation or two, the marranos became assimilated
enough ... their worldly success was phenomenal ... they
almost controlled the economic life of the country ... made
fabulous fortunes as bankers and merchants ... thronged the
liberal professions ... the vast majority of Conversos
remained faithful at heart to the religion of their fathers
... Their Christianity was merely a mask ... They were
Christians in nothing, and Jews in everything but name.

Ironically, from your perspective, Roth himself is the source of the rhetorical question: "Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism
solely because they coveted cultural authority over Catholics?" Back
in the day fabulous fortunes were built upon Spanish usury, while
today's fabulous fortunes are built upon Anglo usury. History repeats
and so on.
From my perspective, the sole difference between enfant terrible
Trump and too many typical European aristocrats back in the day is:
Trump is not Catholic. History rhymes and so forth.
Anyhow, perhaps my Catholic eyes were never supposed to see Roth's
latter book? Beings it originates with The Jewish Publication Society
of America?
So, what's the verdict? Does Roth pander to his audience?

Your controversial opening makes you sound like "a genuine John Bull,
[who] holds to his [opinions], and in fact repeats them until he himself believes them. That is an old English trick. [William] does not need to
perfect it, as it is one of the familiar tactics of British politics,
known to the entire world."
Perhaps you recognize the above as a paraphrase of Goebbels. History believes in Goebbels, the great propagandist.
In reality, back in the day, Freud's nephew Bernays was the world's
most masterful manipulator. In this video, Bernays brags on the boob
tube about his mighty skills:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-4AulOuCPI>

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

Cryptoengineer wrote:

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
-a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
-a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
-a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not >>>>>>> -a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but >>>>>>> -a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be >>>>>>> -a-a-a the Angel.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

...though with that title, maybe I should have.

The Gaza genocide guy's father, Polish Jew Benzion Mileikowsky, alias >>>>> Benzion Netanyahu, wrote a book on the Spanish Inquisition entitled THE >>>>> ORIGINS OF THE INQUISITION IN FIFTEENTH CENTURY SPAIN:

<https://archive.org/details/originsofinquisi0000neta/page/n5/mode/2up> >>>>>
Long story short, Sicut Judaeis prohibits Catholics from mistreating >>>>> Jews

And the USSR had a wonderful constitution, full of respect for human rights.

Some Jews escaped the inquisition by pointing out that they had never in >>>> fact been baptized or claimed to be Catholic. The inquisition, obedient >>>> to the above, would then turn them over to the state, whereupon they
were expelled from Spain, which I think counts as mistreatment.
Especially as not all survived the expulsion.

This although it was known that the Jewish community in Spain dated at >>>> least to the second century AD, and probably to some centuries BC,
arriving with the Phoenicians. A much longer time then, than those
noble Spanish who claimed Visigothic ancestry.


and prohibits Jews from positions of cultural authority over

Catholics. The Inquisition exclusively applied only to Catholics. And, >>>>> from a papal perspective, once a Catholic always a Catholic, until
death.
Did some Spanish Jews convert to Catholicism solely because they >>>>> coveted cultural authority over Catholics? This contention creates
controversy.

About as much controversy as the Flat Earth. But with added racism.

Your followup certainly confirms controversy, no?

No.

If every time we correct someone who says something which is wrong means
that the issue is a controversy, then all issues are controversies,
which means that no issues are controversies.

You may find Cecil Roth's "The Spanish Inquisition" enlightening. It is
a old book (1937) written before the current state of Israel existed, it
is well written, and short. Covers the origin and practice of the
inquisition, and its persecution of Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and any
kind of free thinker.

Here's a story from the book. A Spanish aristocrat was well aware that
his right-hand man was in reality Jewish. Unusually for his class, this
didn't bother him. But one day he got news that the inquisition was
taking an interest in his assistant. So, in an audience with other
people so he could not speak openly, he said "Gomez, the onions begin to
smell". Gomez left that night and made it safely to France.

I've always wondered if that was a code phrase they had previously
agreed to, or whether in the Spanish of that day that was a metaphor for
something going wrong as in "There's something rotten in the state of
Denmark", in English.

An associate tells me a somewhat similar story from familial lore. In
this case, "It's a good night to pick berries in the woods." was code
for "The Russians are coming! Skedaddle!! Double-quick!!!"

Yup, for real, seriously.

From my perspective, the probably pedestrian THE SPANISH INQUISITION

You've not read the book, but you are prepared to describe it

isn't the most interesting thing about Roth. It's his A LIFE OF MENASSEH
BEN ISRAEL: RABBI, PRINTER, AND DIPLOMAT, wherein Roth says:

within a generation or two, the marranos became assimilated
enough ... their worldly success was phenomenal ... they
almost controlled the economic life of the country ... made
fabulous fortunes as bankers and merchants ... thronged the
liberal professions ... the vast majority of Conversos
remained faithful at heart to the religion of their fathers
... Their Christianity was merely a mask ... They were
Christians in nothing, and Jews in everything but name.

And what is wrong with that?

Do you expect people who have been forcibly converted to be sincere? Do
you have the right to demand that people die rather than make a false conversion?

When the Jews became officially Christian, the civil restrictions they
had laboured under were removed. In human history it is quite common
that people once liberated go on to outperform. This can fail to happen
when they quarrel among themselves, or when the liberation is in name only.

Or, having been given these rights, do you think it is somehow immoral
that they used them? Tried to better their place in the world? Even
tried to do better than their oppressors?

What happened was quite predictable. And also predictably, when the New Christians and Moriscos were crushed, not to mention freethinkers and intellectuals of all kinds, the Spanish economy and Spanish power went
into decline.

The Spanish economy became so weak that they relied on the Dutch for
their coastal trading. Even while at war with them. The Dutch took the
money to fight the Spanish at home.



William Hyde
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On 13/10/2025 19:30, William Hyde wrote:

For once, Jewish morale broke and tens of thousands converted.
Conversions prior to this time, even under threat of violence, had been rare.

Now, while many of these conversions were or became sincere, at least in
the second generation, only an idiot or a religious fanatic would expect them all to have been sincere, or even most of them. The Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus laughed at the idea that a forced conversion would be sincere, but the Spanish were not that enlightened.

So their monstrously evil treatment by the inquisition was not in fact a punishment for sin, but the continuation of earlier persecution by a
more formal process.

The more so as these people, freed from the restrictions under which
they had suffered, easily out-competed the old Christians, taking
leading roles in commerce, government, and even the church. Plus
marrying into many old wealthy families.-a Naturally this caused
resentment, and when the secret of their continuing Jewish faith got
out, as was inevitable, a special, "Spanish" inquisition was the answer.

Nor did those sincere converts escape.-a After a few generations of the inquisition, having any Jewish ancestry, however remote, brought you to
the inquisition's attention.-a You were a "New Christian", and even the slightest accusation of an infraction (like turning down a piece of pork
at dinner, or bathing on a Friday) could bring you to their dungeons.

"These people" sounds like a preface to a
racist bit.

And in my opinion, religious practice under
coercion is to be considered genuine, from
the point of view of gods at least, although
of course it's likely to continue only as
long as coercion continues, unless the gods
live up to expectations. Gods themselves are
portrayed as using force to compel worship,
with terrible punishment for heterodoxy.
All of which is what religion usually is.

And since human nature also is what it is,
if a god doesn't want people to be bullied into
the god's preferred form of worship, then the
god should clearly say this.

Which apparently the Christian god did say,
about Jews, as mentioned in this conversation -
after all, Jesus is Jewish. Albeit irregular
in his observance.

But some humans thought they knew better.

Anyway, the book does involve some Spanish
history. And I think most or all of the chapter
titles, as well as the book title, are phrases
from "Monty Python".

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On 10/9/25 16:44, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

-a-a-a "Amongst Our Weapons "by Ben Aaronvitch
-a-a-a-a-a Hard cover 294 pages from DAW Books $27 US.
-a-a-a Well I may have read this before but it was a romp.
-a-a-a Ben Aaronvitch with his Rivers of London series seldom disappoints
-a-a-a Amongst Our Weapons is another tale of Peter Grant in the Folly
-a-a-a and out to Manchester where he releases, but no that would be
-a-a-a telling.-a He is a very busy sort with magic rings and heart ripping
-a-a-a murders. Lesley is on the scene but still being criminal in her
-a-a-a behavior. Even our Tank-breaking wizard Nightengale is not
-a-a-a able to handle the Spanish Inquisition's Angel of Death but
-a-a-a Peter does and releases the Spanish woman enslaved to be
-a-a-a the Angel.

-a-a-a-abliss

Read the story before you expand the joking of the names of the book and the chapters into discursive discussions about the horrors of the
Spanish
Inquisition and remember this does not feature Comfy Chairs at all.
If you don't I will put spoilers up. I might do that anyway.
The book is a very good read.

bliss

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Robert Carnegie wrote:

On 13/10/2025 19:30, William Hyde wrote:

For once, Jewish morale broke and tens of thousands converted.
Conversions prior to this time, even under threat of violence, had
been rare.

Now, while many of these conversions were or became sincere, at least
in the second generation, only an idiot or a religious fanatic would
expect them all to have been sincere, or even most of them. The
Swedish king Gustavus Adolphus laughed at the idea that a forced
conversion would be sincere, but the Spanish were not that enlightened.

So their monstrously evil treatment by the inquisition was not in fact
a punishment for sin, but the continuation of earlier persecution by a
more formal process.

The more so as these people, freed from the restrictions under which
they had suffered, easily out-competed the old Christians, taking
leading roles in commerce, government, and even the church. Plus
marrying into many old wealthy families.-a Naturally this caused
resentment, and when the secret of their continuing Jewish faith got
out, as was inevitable, a special, "Spanish" inquisition was the answer.

Nor did those sincere converts escape.-a After a few generations of the
inquisition, having any Jewish ancestry, however remote, brought you
to the inquisition's attention.-a You were a "New Christian", and even
the slightest accusation of an infraction (like turning down a piece
of pork at dinner, or bathing on a Friday) could bring you to their
dungeons.

"These people" sounds like a preface to a
racist bit.

And in my opinion, religious practice under
coercion is to be considered genuine,

You are of course entitled to your opinion, which makes a mockery of
belief. But then, as I think belief in gods is absurd, mock on.

But most believers disagree rather strongly with you.



from

the point of view of gods at least, although
of course it's likely to continue only as
long as coercion continues, unless the gods
live up to expectations.-a Gods themselves are
portrayed as using force to compel worship,
with terrible punishment for heterodoxy.
All of which is what religion usually is.

Those who run the churches really don't care if you believe or not, just
as long as you behave as if you do, pay the taxes, do your bit to
oppress the open unbelievers. Naturally they portray their gods as
being as hypocritical as they are. They just don't see a problem with
that as long as the gold keeps flowing in.

Which is what makes Gustavus Adolphus remarkable in this.

And since human nature also is what it is,
if a god doesn't want people to be bullied into
the god's preferred form of worship, then the
god should clearly say this.

Man proposes, fantasy figure disposes.


William Hyde

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William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote or quoted:

Those who run the churches really don't care if you believe or not, just
as long as you behave as if you do

This reminds me of somethig I recently (2025-09-30) posted to
an Italian newsgroup ("it.cultura.linguistica.italiano"):

|Non sono nemmeno sicuro che -2credere in Dio-+ si possa davvero
|intendere come -2credere all'/esistenza di/ Dio-+. Forse vuol
|dire qualcosa tipo: -2Comportarsi da credente, prendere parte
|ai riti a cui prendono parte i fedeli-+

In English,

|I am not even sure "believing in God" means "believing that
|God exists". Maybe it is more like "acting like a believer,
|taking part in the rituals that believers take part in"

.


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William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

<snip>

isn't the most interesting thing about Roth. It's his A LIFE OF MENASSEH
BEN ISRAEL: RABBI, PRINTER, AND DIPLOMAT, wherein Roth says:

within a generation or two, the marranos became assimilated
enough ... their worldly success was phenomenal ... they
almost controlled the economic life of the country ... made
fabulous fortunes as bankers and merchants ... thronged the
liberal professions ... the vast majority of Conversos
remained faithful at heart to the religion of their fathers
... Their Christianity was merely a mask ... They were
Christians in nothing, and Jews in everything but name.

And what is wrong with that?

Do you expect people who have been forcibly converted to be sincere? Do
you have the right to demand that people die rather than make a false conversion?

When the Jews became officially Christian, the civil restrictions they
had laboured under were removed. In human history it is quite common
that people once liberated go on to outperform. This can fail to happen
when they quarrel among themselves, or when the liberation is in name only.

Or, having been given these rights, do you think it is somehow immoral
that they used them? Tried to better their place in the world? Even
tried to do better than their oppressors?

What happened was quite predictable. And also predictably, when the New Christians and Moriscos were crushed, not to mention freethinkers and intellectuals of all kinds, the Spanish economy and Spanish power went
into decline.

The Spanish economy became so weak that they relied on the Dutch for
their coastal trading. Even while at war with them. The Dutch took the money to fight the Spanish at home.

When you ask "what is wrong with that?" you leave me with the impression
you condone lying and deceiving. Lies and deceptions open the door to irrational insanity.

Anglo usury took over after Spanish usury ran out of victims.

Usury is always immoral because it's fruit is always the same:
riots followed by aristocrats using their military to impose order.
Usury requires a modicum of mathematical intelligence but demands
complete subservience to Mammon.

Freethinkers may need to forego a jot of freedom in order to spend
more time thoroughly thinking things through. Meanwhile, the Semitic Palestinian Catholic Latin Patriarchate intends to build a new
hospital to replace medical facilities destroyed by the Jews during
their Gaza genocide:

<https://www.lpj.org/en/news/cardinal-pizzaballa-announces-hospital-project-for-gaza-in>

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

<snip>

isn't the most interesting thing about Roth. It's his A LIFE OF MENASSEH >>> BEN ISRAEL: RABBI, PRINTER, AND DIPLOMAT, wherein Roth says:

within a generation or two, the marranos became assimilated
enough ... their worldly success was phenomenal ... they
almost controlled the economic life of the country ... made
fabulous fortunes as bankers and merchants ... thronged the
liberal professions ... the vast majority of Conversos
remained faithful at heart to the religion of their fathers
... Their Christianity was merely a mask ... They were
Christians in nothing, and Jews in everything but name.

And what is wrong with that?

Do you expect people who have been forcibly converted to be sincere? Do
you have the right to demand that people die rather than make a false
conversion?

When the Jews became officially Christian, the civil restrictions they
had laboured under were removed. In human history it is quite common
that people once liberated go on to outperform. This can fail to happen
when they quarrel among themselves, or when the liberation is in name only. >>
Or, having been given these rights, do you think it is somehow immoral
that they used them? Tried to better their place in the world? Even
tried to do better than their oppressors?

What happened was quite predictable. And also predictably, when the New
Christians and Moriscos were crushed, not to mention freethinkers and
intellectuals of all kinds, the Spanish economy and Spanish power went
into decline.

The Spanish economy became so weak that they relied on the Dutch for
their coastal trading. Even while at war with them. The Dutch took the
money to fight the Spanish at home.

When you ask "what is wrong with that?" you leave me with the impression
you condone lying and deceiving.

You should not attempt to determine what other people think. Nobody is
very good at that and you are particularly bad.

William Hyde



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William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

William Hyde wrote:

Don wrote:

<snip>

isn't the most interesting thing about Roth. It's his A LIFE OF MENASSEH >>>> BEN ISRAEL: RABBI, PRINTER, AND DIPLOMAT, wherein Roth says:

within a generation or two, the marranos became assimilated
enough ... their worldly success was phenomenal ... they
almost controlled the economic life of the country ... made
fabulous fortunes as bankers and merchants ... thronged the
liberal professions ... the vast majority of Conversos
remained faithful at heart to the religion of their fathers
... Their Christianity was merely a mask ... They were
Christians in nothing, and Jews in everything but name.

And what is wrong with that?

Do you expect people who have been forcibly converted to be sincere? Do >>> you have the right to demand that people die rather than make a false
conversion?

When the Jews became officially Christian, the civil restrictions they
had laboured under were removed. In human history it is quite common
that people once liberated go on to outperform. This can fail to happen >>> when they quarrel among themselves, or when the liberation is in name only. >>>
Or, having been given these rights, do you think it is somehow immoral
that they used them? Tried to better their place in the world? Even
tried to do better than their oppressors?

What happened was quite predictable. And also predictably, when the New >>> Christians and Moriscos were crushed, not to mention freethinkers and
intellectuals of all kinds, the Spanish economy and Spanish power went
into decline.

The Spanish economy became so weak that they relied on the Dutch for
their coastal trading. Even while at war with them. The Dutch took the >>> money to fight the Spanish at home.

When you ask "what is wrong with that?" you leave me with the impression
you condone lying and deceiving.

You should not attempt to determine what other people think. Nobody is
very good at that and you are particularly bad.

Here's your dilemma: If you disapprove of the Jews' deception then why
do you ask "what's wrong with that?"

--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |

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