• Re: _Lords of Creation_ by S. M. Stirling

    From Robert Woodward@robertaw@drizzle.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Oct 4 22:11:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <robertaw-0A4722.23132121082025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    Note: I decided to repost this since Freeman Dyson didn't postulate a
    hollow shell, but a massive swarm of objects.

    The short version: this book was a disappointment.

    About 2 decades ago, Stirling wrote 2 books that modernized the mid 20th century Planetary Romance genre (_The Sky People_ and _In the Courts of
    the Crimson Kings_). Both Venus and Mars had been terraformed during the Mesozoic by a highly advanced interstellar civilization and had been
    seeded by life from Earth (with periodic inserts of more species,
    including humans, up to about 5 thousand years ago for Venus and perhaps
    200 hundred thousand years ago for Mars). The most advanced cultures on Venus were Bronze age, but Mars had a uniform civilization with
    extremely advanced bio-tech on a dying planet. In the epilog of _In the Courts of the Crimson Kings_ some gates were opened that connected Venus
    and Mars to other worlds, and Earth to a hollow sphere, 2 Astronomic
    units in diameter.

    These two books have recently been reprinted by a new publisher and
    Stirling wrote a 3rd title, _Lords of Creation_ to go with them. People
    are exploring that sphere, but NONE of them appear to be aware
    that a hollow sphere has no internal gravity force. They are all walking around in a 1 g field.

    Oops, I made a mistake above. I was looking for something else in this
    title and noticed Stirling's handwave (which I had somehow missed when I
    read the book). The people are unconcerned because they know what they
    are walking in (at least they have a photo from a big telescope of an
    object of the right size whose interior would have the apparent 1 g
    field they are experiencing). What Stirling has is a big hollow sphere
    that is rotating and has large protrusions at the poles (large enough to
    be seen in the picture). Result, 1 g everywhere on the interior surface.
    Even though I haven't tried to see if this will actually work
    mathematically, I have my doubts; unless a material with
    extraordinarily* high stiffness and strength is used, that object is
    going to collapse into a more stable position (i.e., a solid sphere).

    *extraordinarily high in this case would be 20 or so magnitudes greater
    than that of steel.
    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. i-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jdnicoll@jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Oct 5 14:26:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <robertaw-4DB75F.22113704102025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <robertaw-0A4722.23132121082025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    Note: I decided to repost this since Freeman Dyson didn't postulate a
    hollow shell, but a massive swarm of objects.

    The short version: this book was a disappointment.

    About 2 decades ago, Stirling wrote 2 books that modernized the mid 20th
    century Planetary Romance genre (_The Sky People_ and _In the Courts of
    the Crimson Kings_). Both Venus and Mars had been terraformed during the
    Mesozoic by a highly advanced interstellar civilization and had been
    seeded by life from Earth (with periodic inserts of more species,
    including humans, up to about 5 thousand years ago for Venus and perhaps
    200 hundred thousand years ago for Mars). The most advanced cultures on
    Venus were Bronze age, but Mars had a uniform civilization with
    extremely advanced bio-tech on a dying planet. In the epilog of _In the
    Courts of the Crimson Kings_ some gates were opened that connected Venus
    and Mars to other worlds, and Earth to a hollow sphere, 2 Astronomic
    units in diameter.

    These two books have recently been reprinted by a new publisher and
    Stirling wrote a 3rd title, _Lords of Creation_ to go with them. People
    are exploring that sphere, but NONE of them appear to be aware
    that a hollow sphere has no internal gravity force. They are all walking
    around in a 1 g field.

    Oops, I made a mistake above. I was looking for something else in this
    title and noticed Stirling's handwave (which I had somehow missed when I >read the book). The people are unconcerned because they know what they
    are walking in (at least they have a photo from a big telescope of an
    object of the right size whose interior would have the apparent 1 g
    field they are experiencing). What Stirling has is a big hollow sphere
    that is rotating and has large protrusions at the poles (large enough to
    be seen in the picture). Result, 1 g everywhere on the interior surface.

    That will only produce one gee for regions at a specific radius to
    the axis of rotation. Regions closer will have less and regions
    farther will have more.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Oct 5 16:18:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <robertaw-4DB75F.22113704102025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <robertaw-0A4722.23132121082025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    Note: I decided to repost this since Freeman Dyson didn't postulate a
    hollow shell, but a massive swarm of objects.

    The short version: this book was a disappointment.

    About 2 decades ago, Stirling wrote 2 books that modernized the mid 20th >>> century Planetary Romance genre (_The Sky People_ and _In the Courts of
    the Crimson Kings_). Both Venus and Mars had been terraformed during the >>> Mesozoic by a highly advanced interstellar civilization and had been
    seeded by life from Earth (with periodic inserts of more species,
    including humans, up to about 5 thousand years ago for Venus and perhaps >>> 200 hundred thousand years ago for Mars). The most advanced cultures on
    Venus were Bronze age, but Mars had a uniform civilization with
    extremely advanced bio-tech on a dying planet. In the epilog of _In the
    Courts of the Crimson Kings_ some gates were opened that connected Venus >>> and Mars to other worlds, and Earth to a hollow sphere, 2 Astronomic
    units in diameter.

    These two books have recently been reprinted by a new publisher and
    Stirling wrote a 3rd title, _Lords of Creation_ to go with them. People
    are exploring that sphere, but NONE of them appear to be aware
    that a hollow sphere has no internal gravity force. They are all walking >>> around in a 1 g field.

    Oops, I made a mistake above. I was looking for something else in this
    title and noticed Stirling's handwave (which I had somehow missed when I
    read the book). The people are unconcerned because they know what they
    are walking in (at least they have a photo from a big telescope of an
    object of the right size whose interior would have the apparent 1 g
    field they are experiencing). What Stirling has is a big hollow sphere
    that is rotating and has large protrusions at the poles (large enough to
    be seen in the picture). Result, 1 g everywhere on the interior surface.

    That will only produce one gee for regions at a specific radius to
    the axis of rotation. Regions closer will have less and regions
    farther will have more.

    Yes. a = V^2/R


    Unless I am seriously mistaken about the shape of the object, the
    centripetal force will only be normal to the surface at the equator. Elsewhere there will be a horizontal component, so that the hydrosphere
    and atmosphere will flow to the equatorial areas, leaving much of the
    surface in vacuum.

    It's an easy problem to get rid of by tweaking the shape of a ringworld,
    but not with anything remotely resembling a full shell.

    William Hyde
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Woodward@robertaw@drizzle.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Oct 5 22:10:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <10btv5v$fr5$1@reader2.panix.com>,
    jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

    In article <robertaw-4DB75F.22113704102025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <robertaw-0A4722.23132121082025@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

    Note: I decided to repost this since Freeman Dyson didn't postulate a
    hollow shell, but a massive swarm of objects.

    The short version: this book was a disappointment.

    About 2 decades ago, Stirling wrote 2 books that modernized the mid 20th >> century Planetary Romance genre (_The Sky People_ and _In the Courts of >> the Crimson Kings_). Both Venus and Mars had been terraformed during the >> Mesozoic by a highly advanced interstellar civilization and had been
    seeded by life from Earth (with periodic inserts of more species,
    including humans, up to about 5 thousand years ago for Venus and perhaps >> 200 hundred thousand years ago for Mars). The most advanced cultures on >> Venus were Bronze age, but Mars had a uniform civilization with
    extremely advanced bio-tech on a dying planet. In the epilog of _In the >> Courts of the Crimson Kings_ some gates were opened that connected Venus >> and Mars to other worlds, and Earth to a hollow sphere, 2 Astronomic
    units in diameter.

    These two books have recently been reprinted by a new publisher and
    Stirling wrote a 3rd title, _Lords of Creation_ to go with them. People >> are exploring that sphere, but NONE of them appear to be aware
    that a hollow sphere has no internal gravity force. They are all walking >> around in a 1 g field.

    Oops, I made a mistake above. I was looking for something else in this >title and noticed Stirling's handwave (which I had somehow missed when I >read the book). The people are unconcerned because they know what they
    are walking in (at least they have a photo from a big telescope of an >object of the right size whose interior would have the apparent 1 g
    field they are experiencing). What Stirling has is a big hollow sphere >that is rotating and has large protrusions at the poles (large enough to >be seen in the picture). Result, 1 g everywhere on the interior surface.

    That will only produce one gee for regions at a specific radius to
    the axis of rotation. Regions closer will have less and regions
    farther will have more.

    Those large protrusions were MASSIVE*. There was a 1 g force outward at
    the poles. I have no idea if the shape described would produce the
    results described, but there was a gravitational vector** added to the centrifugal force vector at every point in the interior sphere resulting
    in an 1 g force normal to the interior shell of the sphere.

    *Massive for values equal to many solar masses (best guess). This is why
    I think the object would collapse into a solid sphere (before becoming a
    black hole).

    **Since the gravitational vectors were not generated by two point
    sources, they do not converge.
    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. i-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2