From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

Strange, when I heard you mention a meeting of all the brass in the
context of Asimov, my first thought was of _A Feeling of Power_.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth- generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

pt
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 22:44:08 -0400, Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when I read the story of
the mass gathering of plenty of top level military folk next week,
well, Asimov's classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

pt

No, the algorithm that's guiding our slide into cartoonishness
has that scheduled for a meeting in November to conincide with
the auction of the Kryptos secret...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 26/09/25 14:44, Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

pt

No. They will already know how to protect their future pensions by
keeping mum, unlike university staff. It will be a trick by the Mossad
who will set off an Acme (Trademark) bomb killing all the generals with
a Democrat or a Muslim or an illegal immigrant conveniently "caught"
standing nearby holding a dead match.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

Either that, or they're planning externally imposed regime change
on Venezuela a al GWB/Cheney. Or maybe they're planning the invasion
of Canada or Greenland. Who knows with the incompetent nutcases in charge?

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 9/26/2025 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> writes:

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

Either that, or they're planning externally imposed regime change
on Venezuela a al GWB/Cheney. Or maybe they're planning the invasion
of Canada or Greenland. Who knows with the incompetent nutcases in charge.

Action on Venezuela seems likely. There are far too many US Naval assets
down there for mere 'drug interdiction', and the murders of boat crews
is quite the provocation.

It looks like the next phase in the Permanent Emergency.

Every time I think we've reached RAH's "The Crazy Years", it just gets
crazier.

pt
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 26/09/2025 05:33, Titus G wrote:

On 26/09/25 14:44, Cryptoengineer wrote:

On 9/25/2025 2:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

I expect they'll be asked to pledge personal loyalty to Trump, over
defending the Constitution.

pt

No. They will already know how to protect their future pensions by
keeping mum, unlike university staff. It will be a trick by the Mossad
who will set off an Acme (Trademark) bomb killing all the generals with
a Democrat or a Muslim or an illegal immigrant conveniently "caught"
standing nearby holding a dead match.

I'm off topic but have been meaning to ask:
it seems that lots of Americans are writing
thungs onto bullets these days. Why, and
are they really, and is anyone here doing it,
or what are the odds that crime investigators
are enhancing the evidence?

Is the idea perhaps to make shooting people
into a legally protected form of free speech?

Have any notable SFF writers adopted this
method of submitting their manuscript? And
with what intended advantage? Do we count
Hunter S. Thompson? William Burroughs?
Does anything by Ernest Hemingway qualify?
Sherlock Holmes tested a pistol against his
or his landlady's parlour wall, but he only
went as far as a "patriotic" "V. R."
And forensic science is not the most prominent
feature of his case reports, but several SF
writers have flattered him sincerely.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 25 Sep 2025 18:01:50 +0000, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when I read the story of
the mass gathering of plenty of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-

generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

This ties into a question that's been bothering me.

An official in the Trump Administration was holding a series of four
meetings for other important people. One attendee got disinvited to the remaining three meetings because he broke the confidentiality agreement, revealing that the meetings were about how achieving peace in Gaza or something would make the Rapture come sooner.

I tried hunting this up, both in Google News and YouTube, and no matter
what search terms I tried, I could not find it again. Even using my
browser history didn't work; maybe I saw it on my phone.

John Savard
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth- generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.invalid> wrote:

This ties into a question that's been bothering me.

An official in the Trump Administration was holding a series of four >meetings for other important people. One attendee got disinvited to the >remaining three meetings because he broke the confidentiality agreement, >revealing that the meetings were about how achieving peace in Gaza or >something would make the Rapture come sooner.

There's a lot of Trump craziness, but this doesn't sound familiar or very
much like Trump. That sounds more like something to come out of the Bush, Jr. white house to be honest.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 17:20:25 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

There's a lot of Trump craziness, but this doesn't sound familiar or
very much like Trump. That sounds more like something to come out of
the Bush, Jr.
white house to be honest.

This was a very recent news item.

John Savard
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth- generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1
_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he
was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly the worst general ever.

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military organization.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 10/1/2025 12:47 AM, WolfFan wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story) >>>
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1
_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly the worst general ever.

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military organization.

Based on that awesome analysis, I don't see why you are not the
Secretary of War for the USA.

Lynn

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Oct 1, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bihr0$5qhs$1@dont-email.me>):

On 10/1/2025 12:47 AM, WolfFan wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth- generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1
_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11
times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly
the worst general ever.

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military organization.

Based on that awesome analysis, I don't see why you are not the
Secretary of War for the USA.

Lynn

yourCOll notice that Winfield Scott beat Santa Anna. Winfield ScottrCOs Anaconda crushed Davis. McClellan managed to lose to Lee, despite literally having a copy of LeerCOs battle plan _and_ superior numbers _and_ interior lines of communication _and_ superior artillery. Elphinstone had ALMOST HIS ENTIRE COMMAND MASSACRED; one man, just one, got away. Winfield Scott was nootoriously overweight. The others were lean and trim... and lost.

Yep, just feeling the sheer inspiration.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 17:20:25 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

John Savard <quadibloc@invalid.invalid> wrote:

This ties into a question that's been bothering me.

An official in the Trump Administration was holding a series of four >>meetings for other important people. One attendee got disinvited to the >>remaining three meetings because he broke the confidentiality agreement, >>revealing that the meetings were about how achieving peace in Gaza or >>something would make the Rapture come sooner.

There's a lot of Trump craziness, but this doesn't sound familiar or very >much like Trump. That sounds more like something to come out of the Bush, Jr. >white house to be honest.

One reason a lot of religious Republican supporters support Israel is
because they believe that Israel will eventually provoke a massive
battle near Megiddo. See Revelation for more details.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

oPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat Generalso

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It
annoyed.
The /official/ reason for Weight Control (when first set up) was that
too many middle-aged men having heart attacks while on field
exercises. This had three negative consequences:
1. Medical care was a /lot/ slower to arrive, so a lot of them died.
2. As might be imagined, this disrupted the exercise.
3. If it happened in actual combat, the disruption could be
disasterous.
What the reason for the current program is I have no idea.
So when I read an article (not the one you read, apparently), it was
not necessarily the Generals who were the fatties. Or the non-shavers,
for that matter.
As to job performance, part of program when it started was that
fatties got no awards or medals. In fact, the initial rule was so
strict it was necessary to make it clear that they could still take
Annual Leave. Note that their Annual Evaluation was set at "70", which
is rather low. This applied /regardless of actual performance/.
We had two female SP4s who did a really good job on a demonstration
for some ROTCs attending their summer camp. Both were acknowledged to
have had the same level of achievement. One received an Army
Achievemtn Medal. The other was on Weight Control, and did not.
It is possible that actual combat medals, particularly the Purple
Heart, were excepted -- once the Army returned to being deployed for
real so the issue came up. Or not, the Army being pretty nasty to
people it doesn't much like.
This was before the days of BMI. Instead, percentage body fat,
measured by caliper, was the criterion used.
This is actually a surprising position to take: since the
Administrations anti-DEI propaganda is based on choosing the best
qualified it seems strange that any criterion other than job
performance, honestly evaluated, would be used in the military.
IOW, I would have thought Hegseth would have /ended/ the program as
part of DEI, since it is (or was originally) based on denying merit.
The shaving bit, BTW, was (in the late 70s) about /Pseudofolliculitis
Barbae (PFB)/, which is a medical condition worsened by shaving. Since
most, if not all, of those afflicted are African-American, this
exception inevitably produced racist feedback. Possibly reflected in
Hegseth's apparent attitude. Resulting in classes providing a detailed explanation of the condition.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <0001HW.2E8CF7E30514CCEF700000F9E38F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story) >> >
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1 >> _upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George >McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 >times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the >inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those >three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he >was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly >the worst general ever.

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military >organization.

There's a Canadian joke in Starship Troopers (!) in which Rico speculates
that the Arthur Currie after whom the training camp was named must
have been an athlete, given how much running around the trainees do.
Currie looked (as I think Dorothy Heydt put it) like a schmoo. In
addition to being unathletic, his peacetime record was, shall we
say, somewhat uneven, what with the financial woes, embezzlement
charge and such.

However, as Canadian commander of the Canadian Corps during WWI,
he did a bang-up job. No doubt if Hesgith had his way, Currie
would have been replaced by some incompetent pretty boy. Kid
Rock, say.

Currie was also a decent university vice chancellor despite
the notable disadvantage of only having a high school education.

It would have been interesting to waterboard Heinlein to determine
how he heard of Currie.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military >organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You
can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new battleships soon.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <0001HW.2E8CF7E30514CCEF700000F9E38F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

<Snip!>

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly
the worst general ever.

Being a better general than Santa Anna is a rather low bar. BTW,
Elphinstone has competition for being the worst general in British
history. The phrase "lions led by donkeys" has been used to describe the British army in WWI, perhaps unfairly.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. rCo-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Oct 1, 2025, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article <10bjm1s$4aj$1@panix2.panix.com>):

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You
can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new battleships soon.
--scott

I noticed with intrest his anti-beard crusade. Say buh-bye to Sikhs, some varieties of Muslims, and, especially, blacks with very well-known medical conditions.

HerCOs nuts. And racist. But mostly nuts.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 10/1/25 10:11, WolfFan wrote:

On Oct 1, 2025, Scott Dorsey wrote
(in article <10bjm1s$4aj$1@panix2.panix.com>):

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military
organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You
can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars
today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also
doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is >> different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new
battleships soon.
--scott

I noticed with intrest his anti-beard crusade. Say buh-bye to Sikhs, some varieties of Muslims, and, especially, blacks with very well-known medical conditions.

HerCOs nuts. And racist. But mostly nuts.

Can we say an incompetent racist nut case?
Sure we can... For a while yet until the Constitution is removed from
its protective casing and shredded by the Roberts Court's order.

bliss

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

I noticed with intrest his anti-beard crusade. Say buh-bye to Sikhs, some >varieties of Muslims, and, especially, blacks with very well-known medical >conditions.

This is something that has been going back and forth since the Civil War,
I think. You could always tell Army pilots from Air Force pilots because the Air Force guys had moustaches.

Navy guys just had insane sideburns.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In <10bjpv7$ob1$1@panix2.panix.com> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) writes:

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

I noticed with intrest his anti-beard crusade. Say buh-bye to Sikhs, some >>varieties of Muslims, and, especially, blacks with very well-known medical >>conditions.

This is something that has been going back and forth since the Civil War,
I think. You could always tell Army pilots from Air Force pilots because the >Air Force guys had moustaches.

Navy guys just had insane sideburns.

and then there were the Audio Experts at the serious
electronics shows...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Oct 1, 2025, Robert Woodward wrote
(in article<robertaw-667286.10013201102025@news.individual.net>):

In article<0001HW.2E8CF7E30514CCEF700000F9E38F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article<10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

<Snip!>

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11
times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly
the worst general ever.

Being a better general than Santa Anna is a rather low bar.

The Napoleon of the West (a self-bestowed title) managed to be captured, in the uniform of a private, by Texican militia. https://easttexashistory.org/items/show/142 He was, at best, Braxton Bragg level. Hmm, thererCOs a thought... rename a US Army fort rCOSanta AnnarCO! He should have some recognition, modern Mexico honors Los Ninos Heroes and even the Saint Pats, but donrCOt seem to think highly of poor Antonio.

BTW,
Elphinstone has competition for being the worst general in British
history. The phrase "lions led by donkeys" has been used to describe the British army in WWI, perhaps unfairly.

Elphinstone stands alone. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/elphinstones-1842-kabul-retreat- during-the-first-anglo-afghan-war/ has a fairly good write-up. I was so... inspired... by the fine figure of a fit, trim, modern major general that he was. Such a comparison with fat Winfield Scott. Why, itrCOs almost as if generals should be selected for reasons other than their physical appearance. Radical idea, that.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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Lynn McGuire wrote:

On 10/1/2025 12:47 AM, WolfFan wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article <10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

On 9/25/2025 1:01 PM, danny burstein wrote:

sorry, just a tad, for the political post, but when
I read the story of the mass gathering of plenty
of top level military folk next week, well, Asimov's
classic came to mind:
Subject: uh, oh, didn't Asimov warn about meetings of this sort?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/09/25/hegseth-
generals-quantico-meeting/

obdman:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let%27s_Get_Together_(short_story)

_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1

_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower
ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George
McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa
Anna, 11
times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the
inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those
three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB.
Now he
was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain.
Possibly
the worst general ever.

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military
organization.

Based on that awesome analysis, I don't see why you are not the
Secretary of War for the USA.

Because it's not a position given on merit.

William Hyde


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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On 10/1/2025 12:49 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military
organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new battleships soon.
--scott

I felt it was Hegseth wanting to 'get back' to his imagined 1940s
military, and it was about as accurate as the white male utopia
many imagine 1950s were; the world of Father Knows Best, Ozzy and
Harriet, Leave it to Beaver.

pt
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 10/1/2025 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It annoyed.

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

It was surprisingly hard to find a full length photo of him
standing. Plenty of official portraits, statues and paintings
though.

pt
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote or quoted:

I felt it was Hegseth wanting to 'get back' to his imagined 1940s
military

I honestly don't know what to make of this! It could be that
the reasons they're giving are just a cover, but what would
the actual reasons even be?

Some possibilities:

There's another motive for the meeting that they haven't put on
record. The speeches they announced publicly are just a smokescreen.

The new defense minister might just want to show off his
authority by calling in his people over something trivial.
The speech itself would just be window dressing.

The whole production might be more for voters than for the
officers, because he thinks it makes him look strong in
front of the electorate.

Hegseth could actually be biting back frustration about
Trump's weight. Since he can't lay into Trump directly, he's
taking a sideways shot. He's basically "hitting the sack but
meaning the donkey".


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 18:26:02 -0400, William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com>
wrote:

Lynn McGuire wrote:

<snippo>

Based on that awesome analysis, I don't see why you are not the
Secretary of War for the USA.

Because it's not a position given on merit.

It has occurred to me that, if the Cabinet and other publicly
prominent positions were compared for, say, Trump and most former
Presidents, Trump's might well look rather more diverse.
I suspect that most "select based on merit" types firmly believe that
a White Male will win the position every time. Trump may actually mean
what he says, in this one case.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 10:34:59 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/2025 12:49 PM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military
organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You >> can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars
today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also
doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is >> different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new
battleships soon.
--scott

I felt it was Hegseth wanting to 'get back' to his imagined 1940s
military, and it was about as accurate as the white male utopia
many imagine 1950s were; the world of Father Knows Best, Ozzy and
Harriet, Leave it to Beaver.

You are making the common assumption that by "the '50s", they mean
"the 1950s". And I suspect that this is the case. But it /could/ be
"the 1850s" (black chattal slavery, no votes for women) or even "the
1750s" (a King in charge).
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:49:00 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

Body-mass index crap has zero to do with fitness to lead a military >>organization.

It is very interesting to listen to the whole talk that Hegseth gave. You >can ignore Trump's talk which was mostly incoherent and doesn't actually
tell you much. But Hegseth's talk basically was about trying to get back
the kind of military that won WWII. He doesn't seem to get that the wars >today are different and require a different kind of military, and he also >doesn't seem to get that the society from which the military draws people is >different too. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new >battleships soon.

IIRC, Trump already has.
The news cycle /cannot/ be kept up with any more.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 17:19:35 -0400, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

On Oct 1, 2025, Robert Woodward wrote
(in article<robertaw-667286.10013201102025@news.individual.net>):

In article<0001HW.2E8CF7E30514CCEF700000F9E38F@news.supernews.com>,
WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

On Sep 30, 2025, Lynn McGuire wrote
(in article<10bhgkg$3ujpt$3@dont-email.me>):

<Snip!>

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

Lynn

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George
McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11
times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the
inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those >> > three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he >> > was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain.
Possibly
the worst general ever.

Being a better general than Santa Anna is a rather low bar.

The Napoleon of the West (a self-bestowed title) managed to be captured, in >the uniform of a private, by Texican militia. >https://easttexashistory.org/items/show/142 He was, at best, Braxton Bragg >level. Hmm, thereAs a thought... rename a US Army fort ASanta AnnaA! He >should have some recognition, modern Mexico honors Los Ninos Heroes and even >the Saint Pats, but donAt seem to think highly of poor Antonio.

BTW,
Elphinstone has competition for being the worst general in British
history. The phrase "lions led by donkeys" has been used to describe the
British army in WWI, perhaps unfairly.

Elphinstone stands alone. >https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/article/elphinstones-1842-kabul-retreat- >during-the-first-anglo-afghan-war/ has a fairly good write-up. I was so... >inspired... by the fine figure of a fit, trim, modern major general that he >was. Such a comparison with fat Winfield Scott. Why, itAs almost as if >generals should be selected for reasons other than their physical appearance. >Radical idea, that.

When you mostly select them because of their social class, you are
rather limited in your choices.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 10:47:40 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/2025 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

oPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat Generalso

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It
annoyed.

Further thought suggests more like Soviet Generals /observing/ a NATO
joint exercise that the above unlikely situation. But the story did
exist, and the statement was said to be made.

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

It was surprisingly hard to find a full length photo of him
standing. Plenty of official portraits, statues and paintings
though.

Thanks for finding it.
Of course, Soviet Generals /ate/ rather higher on the hog than the
enlisted men. So perhaps our Army mistook starvation for health, who
can say?
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <10bm3ac$127qe$2@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/2025 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It annoyed.

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenb
urg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

OTOH, Konstantin Rokossovsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky), who is on
Montgomery's left in that picture, looks trim (Montgomery might be
thinner, but he was shorter as well).
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. rCo-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

There's another motive for the meeting that they haven't put on
record. The speeches they announced publicly are just a smokescreen.

This is entirely possible. And it is possible that there was another
motive on the part of Mr. Hegseth, but that once Trump had co-opted
the meeting it was lost.

The new defense minister might just want to show off his
authority by calling in his people over something trivial.
The speech itself would just be window dressing.

This is also possible. Unfortunately it's also a major security risk,
but the current administration has not let things like security bother
them.

The whole production might be more for voters than for the
officers, because he thinks it makes him look strong in
front of the electorate.

This was clearly the case with Mr. Trump's speech, as every speech he
makes is for his base. The speech he made in front of the UN recently...
it wasn't for the UN, it was for his base.

I don't think Hegseth would do this, but it might be some added
motivation. However, initially we were told that the briefing was
going to be classified, which argues against that being part of the
initial intention.

Hegseth could actually be biting back frustration about
Trump's weight. Since he can't lay into Trump directly, he's
taking a sideways shot. He's basically "hitting the sack but
meaning the donkey".

This seems unlikely, but to be honest the discussion about weight seemed
to be a very minor part of the whole "bring back the great army of the
1940s again" thing.

Whatever it is, I am pretty sure whatever happened was not what Mr. Hegseth originally envisioned and that Trump likely inveigled himself into it and
made it more of a mess, as he is often doing.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:49:00 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new

battleships soon.

IIRC, Trump already has.

The news cycle /cannot/ be kept up with any more.

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as
unbelievable.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



On 10/2/25 17:23, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:49:00 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new

battleships soon.

IIRC, Trump already has.

The news cycle /cannot/ be kept up with any more.

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as unbelievable.
--scott

There is a book by Turtledove which is about a history in
which the man who was known as Joseph Stalin in the USSR
parents have emigrated to the USA. Roosevelt is assassinated
to the best of my recollection and a fascist regime established
in the USA. Guess who is at the top.

In this real life the hatred and racism about dark-skinned
Americans Citizens was triggered by the Election of Obama
and the reaction was the unification of various anti-American
forces behind Donald Trump and the South has risen again
truly like a Zombie with the aid of the White Nationalist
Christian Dominionists.
Now does what is happening now seem more believable?
I mean the WNCD people have been working toward this since
the WW II ended and it gained speed with the loss of our only
credible enemy, the USSR. They first took over radio with endless
evangelical preachers ripping off the public, then people like
Russ Limbaugh who simply preached hate of the so-called
Liberals of the Democratic Party.

When I was in High School 70 years ago we understood
the Communists were just power hungry people who would go
to any lengths to gain power. Their ideals were just propaganda
to get the masses behind them.

Funny it has ended up with a Marxist President who
got the USA 10% ownership of the Intel Company.
"Dirty commie" Donald Trump! ;^) Who was willing to do
anything to gain power so that he could be King in the USA.

For the old Republican Party Socialism was reserved
for big corporations which were bailed out by bi-partisan
actions designed to preserve jobs.

bliss

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

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In article <10bn525$bau$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 1 Oct 2025 12:49:00 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new

battleships soon.

IIRC, Trump already has.

The news cycle /cannot/ be kept up with any more.

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as >unbelievable.

Oddly, this is relevant to a book slated for review next week.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 10/2/2025 1:28 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:

In article <10bm3ac$127qe$2@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/2025 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

rCLPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat GeneralsrCY

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks. >>>>
Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It
annoyed.

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenb
urg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

OTOH, Konstantin Rokossovsky (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky), who is on Montgomery's left in that picture, looks trim (Montgomery might be
thinner, but he was shorter as well).

Jason Issacs cuts a much trimmer figure in "The Death of Stalin"
(very much worth seeing):

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/mediaviewer/rm2578258945/

I've read that they actually cut down the number of medals;
the real spread was too much to be plausible:

https://alchetron.com/Georgy-Zhukov

pt

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On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 20:23:33 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:
<snippo>

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as >unbelievable.

I saw episodes 7 and 8 of the Acorn /I, Claudius/ DVD set last night.
The older Claudius tells us that he is going to record what really
happened, even though it may seem incredible.
The two episodes cover the reign of Caligula.
So this isn't the first time this problem existed. Well, provided
Graves got it right, of course.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 11:30:31 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/2/2025 1:28 PM, Robert Woodward wrote:

In article <10bm3ac$127qe$2@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

On 10/1/2025 11:37 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 16:04:16 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

oPete Hegseth Calls Out Fat Generalso

https://rumble.com/v6zo4i0-pete-hegseth-calls-out-fat-generals.html?e9s=src
_v1_upp_a

Yup, the job requires fitness and inspiration to those in the lower ranks.

Hat tip to:
https://thelibertydaily.com/

The story I remember from the time this idiocy first appeared was
that, in an amicable USA-USSR exercise, the Russian Generals said to
the American Generals: In our Army, the Generals are fat and the
soldiers are thin; in yours, it is the opposite", and this rankled. It >>>> annoyed.

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenb
urg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

OTOH, Konstantin Rokossovsky
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Rokossovsky), who is on
Montgomery's left in that picture, looks trim (Montgomery might be
thinner, but he was shorter as well).

Jason Issacs cuts a much trimmer figure in "The Death of Stalin"
(very much worth seeing):

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/mediaviewer/rm2578258945/

I've read that they actually cut down the number of medals;
the real spread was too much to be plausible:

https://alchetron.com/Georgy-Zhukov

That's what happens when you save your country: you get lots of
medals.
I wonder how many of them were for campaigns he commanded from a very
high level.
Or shot, for upstaging Stalin, of course.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

Jason Issacs cuts a much trimmer figure in "The Death of Stalin"
(very much worth seeing):

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/mediaviewer/rm2578258945/

I've read that they actually cut down the number of medals;
the real spread was too much to be plausible:

https://alchetron.com/Georgy-Zhukov

It's a common problem. Idi Amin had so much gold bread on his hat that it pressed down on his brain and made him go crazy.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 01:47:15 -0400, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George >McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 >times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the >inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those >three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he >was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly >the worst general ever.

Interesting - didn't know that though there are a couple of places (a
mountain and a park) named for him within 100 miles of my home.
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On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 08:16:58 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

One reason a lot of religious Republican supporters support Israel is
because they believe that Israel will eventually provoke a massive
battle near Megiddo. See Revelation for more details.

In fairness, with modern weaponry most any location in Israel is
within firing range of Megiddo.

Heck the Israelis launched missile strikes against Iran during the
current war and that's a LOT farther away than Megiddo!
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On Oct 3, 2025, The Horny Goat wrote
(in article<i8h0ek5hpcaun1eqf1jp68srdhsfm8bl6k@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 01:47:15 -0400, WolfFan<akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11
times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly
the worst general ever.

Interesting - didn't know that though there are a couple of places (a mountain and a park) named for him within 100 miles of my home.

There were at least two other General Elphinstones, both of whom were considerably better than he was. Not difficult, of course.

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On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 10:47:40 -0400, Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

Ref General Zukov, possibly the Soviets best WW2 general: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgy_Zhukov#/media/File:Allies_at_the_Brandenburg_Gate,_1945.jpg

(He's the guy in the red sash).

It was surprisingly hard to find a full length photo of him
standing. Plenty of official portraits, statues and paintings
though.

Now he would be the one with the red sash and the most medals of
anybody in the picture including a certain well known British
commander wearing a beret next to him.....clearly it's taken in 1945
but any idea when? (My guess would be in the early summer after the
German surrender)
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On Thu, 02 Oct 2025 09:38:16 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

I felt it was Hegseth wanting to 'get back' to his imagined 1940s
military, and it was about as accurate as the white male utopia
many imagine 1950s were; the world of Father Knows Best, Ozzy and
Harriet, Leave it to Beaver.

You are making the common assumption that by "the '50s", they mean
"the 1950s". And I suspect that this is the case. But it /could/ be
"the 1850s" (black chattal slavery, no votes for women) or even "the
1750s" (a King in charge).

Given he's named 3 TV shows that would tend to eliminate the 1750s or
1850s. (Though I suppose if one of the shows was the movie Barry
Lyndon.....)
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On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 18:15:47 -0700, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

When I was in High School 70 years ago we understood
the Communists were just power hungry people who would go
to any lengths to gain power. Their ideals were just propaganda
to get the masses behind them.

My only memory of those days was during the Cuban Missile Crisis when
I went to my mother and asked her why "Gramma (who lived next door - I
had the run of both houses) is crying a lot and talking about 1939?"

(That and my 1 year old cousin who was at my grandmother's house as
was our cat - who didn't like her because all he wanted to do was
sleep and all she wanted to do with play with him and somehow got the
idea opening his eyelids was a good idea.... afterwards he hid under
the furniture for years when they came over and I was amazed a cat
could recognize a 6 year old not having seen her since she was 1 and
then 3)
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Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 20:23:33 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

<snippo>

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as
unbelievable.

I saw episodes 7 and 8 of the Acorn /I, Claudius/ DVD set last night.

The older Claudius tells us that he is going to record what really
happened, even though it may seem incredible.

The two episodes cover the reign of Caligula.

So this isn't the first time this problem existed. Well, provided
Graves got it right, of course.

Well, it's a great story, and great series.

Graves follows Suetonius pretty closely.

William Hyde
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 14:52:57 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 08:16:58 -0700, Paul S Person ><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

One reason a lot of religious Republican supporters support Israel is >>because they believe that Israel will eventually provoke a massive
battle near Megiddo. See Revelation for more details.

In fairness, with modern weaponry most any location in Israel is
within firing range of Megiddo.

Heck the Israelis launched missile strikes against Iran during the
current war and that's a LOT farther away than Megiddo!

True.
But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the
End of Times.
Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.
How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 15:42:55 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2025 09:38:16 -0700, Paul S Person ><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

I felt it was Hegseth wanting to 'get back' to his imagined 1940s >>>military, and it was about as accurate as the white male utopia
many imagine 1950s were; the world of Father Knows Best, Ozzy and >>>Harriet, Leave it to Beaver.

You are making the common assumption that by "the '50s", they mean
"the 1950s". And I suspect that this is the case. But it /could/ be
"the 1850s" (black chattal slavery, no votes for women) or even "the
1750s" (a King in charge).

Given he's named 3 TV shows that would tend to eliminate the 1750s or
1850s. (Though I suppose if one of the shows was the movie Barry
Lyndon.....)

That's a good point ... for Hegseth.
But there are others out there ...
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 15:48:30 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 18:15:47 -0700, Bobbie Sellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:

When I was in High School 70 years ago we understood
the Communists were just power hungry people who would go
to any lengths to gain power. Their ideals were just propaganda
to get the masses behind them.

My only memory of those days was during the Cuban Missile Crisis when
I went to my mother and asked her why "Gramma (who lived next door - I
had the run of both houses) is crying a lot and talking about 1939?"

(That and my 1 year old cousin who was at my grandmother's house as
was our cat - who didn't like her because all he wanted to do was
sleep and all she wanted to do with play with him and somehow got the
idea opening his eyelids was a good idea.... afterwards he hid under
the furniture for years when they came over and I was amazed a cat
could recognize a 6 year old not having seen her since she was 1 and
then 3)

Perhaps she still had the same Stench of Evil she had when tormenting
him.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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In article <dji2ekpnsltgit9fo8cf8c0mtvv8lbgb2p@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 14:52:57 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 08:16:58 -0700, Paul S Person ><psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

One reason a lot of religious Republican supporters support Israel is >>because they believe that Israel will eventually provoke a massive
battle near Megiddo. See Revelation for more details.

In fairness, with modern weaponry most any location in Israel is
within firing range of Megiddo.

Heck the Israelis launched missile strikes against Iran during the
current war and that's a LOT farther away than Megiddo!

True.

But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the
End of Times.

Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.

How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.

While I suspect that their view is that God is waiting for the Temple to
be rebuilt.
--
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. -------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
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Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the=20
End of Times.=20

Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.=20

How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.

If you build it, He will come? Or something like that?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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The Horny Goat wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 01:47:15 -0400, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

Riiiight. Winfield Scott was such a bad general when compared to George
McClellan, or Jeff Davis, or, dare I say it, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna, 11 >> times president of Mexico, the Napoleon of the West. I can see the
inspiration, or perhaps just the persperation, just pouring out of those
three. Almost as much as, oh, William George Keith Elphinstone, CB. Now he >> was fit and trim... and the worst general in the history of Britain. Possibly
the worst general ever.

Interesting - didn't know that though there are a couple of places (a mountain and a park) named for him within 100 miles of my home.

Those are named after Lord Elphinstone, a nephew of the General who
wisely restricted his military service to the navy. Conservative
politician who bought a lot of land in Canada.

A quick check shows that both the first and second Lords Elphinstone
died in battle - not a lucky family at war.


William Hyde


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Bobbie Sellers wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:

Paul S Person wrote:

Scott Dorsey wrote:
. But just watch, we'll be hearing calls for building new

battleships soon.

IIRC, Trump already has.

The news cycle /cannot/ be kept up with any more.

It's a terrible era for fiction writers. You can't make this stuff
up. If I read about this in a book, I would have dismissed it as
unbelievable.
--scott

There is a book by Turtledove which is about a history in
which the man who was known as Joseph Stalin in the USSR
parents have emigrated to the USA. Roosevelt is assassinated
to the best of my recollection and a fascist regime established
in the USA. Guess who is at the top.

In this real life the hatred and racism about dark-skinned
Americans Citizens was triggered by the Election of Obama
and the reaction was the unification of various anti-American
forces behind Donald Trump and the South has risen again
truly like a Zombie with the aid of the White Nationalist
Christian Dominionists.
Now does what is happening now seem more believable?
I mean the WNCD people have been working toward this since
the WW II ended and it gained speed with the loss of our only
credible enemy, the USSR. They first took over radio with endless
evangelical preachers ripping off the public, then people like
Russ Limbaugh who simply preached hate of the so-called
Liberals of the Democratic Party.

When I was in High School 70 years ago we understood
the Communists were just power hungry people who would go
to any lengths to gain power. Their ideals were just propaganda
to get the masses behind them.

Funny it has ended up with a Marxist President who
got the USA 10% ownership of the Intel Company.
"Dirty commie" Donald Trump! ;^) Who was willing to do
anything to gain power so that he could be King in the USA.

For the old Republican Party Socialism was reserved
for big corporations which were bailed out by bi-partisan
actions designed to preserve jobs.

The JOE STEELE short story by Turtledove is entertaining. Its
novelization is too long for me to even consider.

My Catholic eyes see Limbaugh and Obama as opposite sides of the same
shekel. Limbaugh firmly believed in the nonsensical, oxymoronic Judea- Christian. While Obama supposedly follows the tenets of "better to reign
in hell" Jew Saul Alinsky.
During the opening ceremony of the eighth front in his war on the
world, belligerent Boomer "Bibi" baptised his opponents as the "woke
Reich." Get it? (Did the younger Jew influencers at the table
respectfully roll their eyes at the warmed-over Weimar leitmotif?)
"Woke Reich" sounds a lot like code for Catholics wise to the ways
of the USA political class. African-American Catholic Candace Owens
seems to scare the devil out of "Bibi."
--
Don.......My cat's )\._.,--....,'``. veritas _|_ telltale tall tail /, _.. \ _\ (`._ ,. liberabit |
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.' vos |


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On Sat, 04 Oct 2025 09:57:32 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

In article <dji2ekpnsltgit9fo8cf8c0mtvv8lbgb2p@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 03 Oct 2025 14:52:57 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2025 08:16:58 -0700, Paul S Person
<psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

One reason a lot of religious Republican supporters support Israel is
because they believe that Israel will eventually provoke a massive
battle near Megiddo. See Revelation for more details.

In fairness, with modern weaponry most any location in Israel is
within firing range of Megiddo.

Heck the Israelis launched missile strikes against Iran during the
current war and that's a LOT farther away than Megiddo!

True.

But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the
End of Times.

Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.

How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.

While I suspect that their view is that God is waiting for the Temple to
be rebuilt.

That's possible for some, but others seem intent on skipping right to Armageddon.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 15:23:36 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the=20
End of Times.=20

Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.=20

How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.

If you build it, He will come? Or something like that?

Read Revelation: the Beast makes a pact with Israel (so Israel must
exist) and then sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the temple
(so the temple must exist).
No Israel, no fulfillment of Revelation in their (I should say "our"
but I am not willing to associate with them) time: they will have to
die instead of being raptured.
Hey, at least they aren't out bombing places they don't like. Insane
beliefs are, if not better, then preferable to insane acts.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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On 10/5/2025 9:27 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 15:23:36 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

But the point is that a lot of relgious Republicans support Israel
because they think they can somehow force God to bring about the=20
End of Times.=20

Of course, this can't happen until they rebuild the Temple.=20

How God would feel about having His hand forced is, apparently,
something they have never considered.

If you build it, He will come? Or something like that?

Read Revelation: the Beast makes a pact with Israel (so Israel must
exist) and then sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the temple
(so the temple must exist).

No Israel, no fulfillment of Revelation in their (I should say "our"
but I am not willing to associate with them) time: they will have to
die instead of being raptured.

Hey, at least they aren't out bombing places they don't like. Insane
beliefs are, if not better, then preferable to insane acts.

I understand the sentiment but far too often it is those insane beliefs
that lead to insane acts.
--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.
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Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

Read Revelation: the Beast makes a pact with Israel (so Israel must
exist) and then sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the temple
(so the temple must exist).

No Israel, no fulfillment of Revelation in their (I should say "our"
but I am not willing to associate with them) time: they will have to
die instead of being raptured.

I did read Revelation. Then I read several annotations of the book, one written by expert theologians from Yale, one written by a semiliterate Southern preacher. Then I read the JW commentary on the book. And yes,
I read Asimov's take on it.

And what I came away with was the notion that nobody had any idea what
this was actually about and that it was pretty much incomprehensible and impenetrable because so much of the context around it no longer exists.

Which made me think that John Ashcroft was a gullible fool but that was
one of the few understandings that I received from the book.

Hey, at least they aren't out bombing places they don't like. Insane
beliefs are, if not better, then preferable to insane acts.

One has an unfortunate tendency to lead to the other, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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On 10/7/25 06:09, Scott Dorsey wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

Read Revelation: the Beast makes a pact with Israel (so Israel must
exist) and then sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the temple
(so the temple must exist).

No Israel, no fulfillment of Revelation in their (I should say "our"
but I am not willing to associate with them) time: they will have to
die instead of being raptured.

I did read Revelation. Then I read several annotations of the book, one written by expert theologians from Yale, one written by a semiliterate Southern preacher. Then I read the JW commentary on the book. And yes,
I read Asimov's take on it.

And what I came away with was the notion that nobody had any idea what
this was actually about and that it was pretty much incomprehensible and impenetrable because so much of the context around it no longer exists.

We know a lot of the context and how it applied in those early years as
Rome was
the enemy of the Judeans people and of their religion. Apparently Jesus
and his followers expected the rapid coming of the End of Days, the
Apocalyse and it did not
happen in year 100, year 1000 which they felt strongly about and so on.

Which made me think that John Ashcroft was a gullible fool but that was
one of the few understandings that I received from the book.

No shortages of gullible fools and the population surges at times.>

Hey, at least they aren't out bombing places they don't like. Insane
beliefs are, if not better, then preferable to insane acts.

One has an unfortunate tendency to lead to the other, though.
--scott

Look at Gaza to see how silly beliefs with a push lead to pointless and self-defeating actions. Israel will be lucky to survive the current
government
terrorist generating activities and the vengeance game will go on for quite
a while.

bliss

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On Tue, 7 Oct 2025 09:09:04 -0400 (EDT), kludge@panix.com (Scott
Dorsey) wrote:

Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

Read Revelation: the Beast makes a pact with Israel (so Israel must
exist) and then sets up the Abomination of Desolation in the temple
(so the temple must exist).

No Israel, no fulfillment of Revelation in their (I should say "our"
but I am not willing to associate with them) time: they will have to
die instead of being raptured.

I did read Revelation. Then I read several annotations of the book, one >written by expert theologians from Yale, one written by a semiliterate >Southern preacher. Then I read the JW commentary on the book. And yes,
I read Asimov's take on it.

And what I came away with was the notion that nobody had any idea what
this was actually about and that it was pretty much incomprehensible and >impenetrable because so much of the context around it no longer exists.

Not a bad summary, actually. Some of the ones I read made some
interesting points, but, taken as a whole, the context is, indeed,
missing.
Did you happen to read Ellul's /Apocalypse/? I re-read it recently,
and, if nothing else, it is a /very/ high-level intellectual tome.
It turned out that, as with two Heinlein juveniles, my memory of the
book was not quite accurate. IOW, I got to read again for the very
first time.

Which made me think that John Ashcroft was a gullible fool but that was
one of the few understandings that I received from the book.

Hey, at least they aren't out bombing places they don't like. Insane >>beliefs are, if not better, then preferable to insane acts.

One has an unfortunate tendency to lead to the other, though.

But not always. And it can take years for things to reach that point.
During which they can have encounters that change the course of their
thinking.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 22:41:24 +0000, John Savard wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 17:20:25 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

There's a lot of Trump craziness, but this doesn't sound familiar or
very much like Trump. That sounds more like something to come out of
the Bush, Jr.
white house to be honest.

This was a very recent news item.

I finally saw another reference in the news. The Trump official in
question was Peter Thiel.

John Savard
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 04:08:48 -0000 (UTC), John Savard wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 22:41:24 +0000, John Savard wrote:

On Tue, 30 Sep 2025 17:20:25 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

There's a lot of Trump craziness, but this doesn't sound familiar or
very much like Trump. That sounds more like something to come out of
the Bush, Jr.
white house to be honest.

This was a very recent news item.

I finally saw another reference in the news. The Trump official in
question was Peter Thiel.

John Savard

I found a Google News article about this from the Washington Post
that so far hasn't been published in its print edition. Thanks
for tipping us off about this.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

In article <10c33dg$h5u$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

I did read Revelation.

What I'm surprised doesn't get more mention is the City of
God descending from Heaven. Talk about your megastructures,
it is described as a cube the size of Alaska.

One wonders about gravitational effects.
--
Mike Van Pelt | "I don't advise it unless you're nuts."
mvp at calweb.com | -- Ray Wilkinson, after riding out Hurricane
KE6BVH | Ike on Surfside Beach in Galveston
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 16/10/25 16:21, Mike Van Pelt wrote:

In article <10c33dg$h5u$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

I did read Revelation.

What I'm surprised doesn't get more mention is the City of
God descending from Heaven. Talk about your megastructures,
it is described as a cube the size of Alaska.

One wonders about gravitational effects.

It is Fantasy, not Science Fiction.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:21:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

In article <10c33dg$h5u$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

I did read Revelation.

What I'm surprised doesn't get more mention is the City of
God descending from Heaven. Talk about your megastructures,
it is described as a cube the size of Alaska.

IIRC, we had a discussion on this a couple of years ago. And, yes,
"Borg cube" figured in it.
Complete with (again, IIRC) an image of a LEGO version.

One wonders about gravitational effects.

One of the many books my grandfather collected and read on Revelation
asserted that this means that Heaven and Earth are now one and the
same. Whatever /that/ was supposed to mean.
Figuring Revelation out is one thing. Figuring the various assertions
about what it means out is quite another.
The best explanation is that the book is useful to churches that are
being persecuted. Note that I mean /persecuted/ -- suppressed,
imprisoned, etc -- not just throwing a hissy-fit because they aren't
running things or their obnoxious (and so antichristlike) behavior
produces a negative response.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

On 10/16/2025 11:42 AM, Paul S Person wrote:

On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 03:21:55 -0000 (UTC), Mike Van Pelt <usenet@mikevanpelt.com> wrote:

In article <10c33dg$h5u$1@panix2.panix.com>,
Scott Dorsey <kludge@panix.com> wrote:

I did read Revelation.

What I'm surprised doesn't get more mention is the City of
God descending from Heaven. Talk about your megastructures,
it is described as a cube the size of Alaska.

IIRC, we had a discussion on this a couple of years ago. And, yes,
"Borg cube" figured in it.

Complete with (again, IIRC) an image of a LEGO version.

Indeed, starting here: https://thebrickbible.com/legacy/revelation/gods_garish_eternal_tribute_to_himself/rv21_01-02p11.html

pt
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