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In article <10anb4r$1dhm0$1@dont-email.me>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 9/16/2025 6:18 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
(Snip!!)
Dover Beach is an example of another subgenre: WWIII novels where
it turns everyone in NATO (except the US) and in Warsaw Pact
(except the SU) thought WWIII was a stupid idea and had secretly
agreed to sit it out while the big boys hammered each other into
ruins.
To me, 'Dover Beach' is a 1867 poem by Matthew Arnold.
The link is probably the closing lines:
"And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night."
The title is a reference to the poem, which I first ran across in
Silverberg's "Downward to the Earth".
Something tells me there's another SF work that references it, but I
cannot recall any. Could it be Blish?
I found several:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
Robert Woodward wrote:
In article <10anb4r$1dhm0$1@dont-email.me>,
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
Cryptoengineer wrote:
On 9/16/2025 6:18 PM, James Nicoll wrote:
(Snip!!)
Dover Beach is an example of another subgenre: WWIII novels where it >>>>> turns everyone in NATO (except the US) and in Warsaw Pact (except
the SU) thought WWIII was a stupid idea and had secretly agreed to
sit it out while the big boys hammered each other into ruins.
To me, 'Dover Beach' is a 1867 poem by Matthew Arnold.
The link is probably the closing lines:
"And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of
struggle and flight, Where ignorant armies clash by night."
The title is a reference to the poem, which I first ran across in
Silverberg's "Downward to the Earth".
Something tells me there's another SF work that references it, but I
cannot recall any. Could it be Blish?
I found several:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova "When Ignorant Armies Clash" by
Ray Bradbury "Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C.
L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar" the title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell which).
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
William Hyde
When I was researching the 1947 flying saucer frenzy I noticed
that the second person to see them after Kenneth Arnold was named
Byron Savage. Then I noticed that Kenneth has the same number of
letters as Matthew as well as doubled letters in the center.
Robert Woodward wrote:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also >referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar" the >title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell which).
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
Robert Woodward wrote:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also >referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar" the >title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell which).
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
Did you intend to refer to the semiconductor company? Or did you
intend to say 'Marvel'?
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
Robert Woodward wrote:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also
referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar" the
title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell which).
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
Did you intend to refer to the semiconductor company? Or did you
intend to say 'Marvel'?
On 9/22/25 07:59, Scott Lurndal wrote:
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
Robert Woodward wrote:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also
referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar" the >>> title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell which). >>>
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
Did you intend to refer to the semiconductor company?-a-a Or did you
intend to say 'Marvel'?
-a-a-a-aI have not read much of Marvell if any but he was a writer, thus quotes.
-a-a-a-a<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Marvell>
-a-a-a-aI remember the Marvell writer from a broad amount of reading about poets.
Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 9/22/25 07:59, Scott Lurndal wrote:
William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> writes:
Robert Woodward wrote:
_As on a Darkling Plain_ by Ben Bova
"When Ignorant Armies Clash" by Ray Bradbury
"Clash by Night" by Lawrence O'Donnell (Henry Kuttner & C. L. Moore)
I'd have to cheat to find those. But by cheating I find that it is also >>>> referenced in Fahrenheit 451 and "A song for Lya".
"The Sea of Faith" is a collection of poems, and "The Grinding Roar"
the
title of an essay, possibly a book or a video game (hard to tell
which).
Arnold may be competing with Marvell for the most quotes.
Did you intend to refer to the semiconductor company?-a-a Or did you
intend to say 'Marvel'?
-a-a-a-a-aI have not read much of Marvell if any but he was a writer, thus >> quotes.
-a-a-a-a-a<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Marvell>
-a-a-a-a-aI remember the Marvell writer from a broad amount of reading
about poets.
Whose poem, mentioned above, has supplied the title of a number of SF
works, "World Enough, and Time" and "Vaster than Empires, and More
Slow", for example.
I'm sure that some cookbook or other has also appropriated "Vegetable
Love", and "Time's winged chariot" shows up a lot.
I am disappointed that no SF writer has yet written "The Iron Gates of Life".-a Sounds like a Swanwick title to me.
We studied two lines from it in high school. The rest being too dirty
for our delicate sensibilities.
Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org> wrote:
When I was researching the 1947 flying saucer frenzy I noticed that the >>second person to see them after Kenneth Arnold was named Byron Savage.
Then I noticed that Kenneth has the same number of letters as Matthew as >>well as doubled letters in the center.
Clearly you are on to something important here.
Also, the name "Arnold" begins with the letter A, which is shaped
exactly like the Bermuda Triangle. Coincidence? I think not.
--scott