• MT VOID, 08/01/25 -- Vol. 44, No. 5, Whole Number 2391

    From Evelyn C. Leeper@evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Aug 3 08:38:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    THE MT VOID
    08/01/25 -- Vol. 44, No. 5, Whole Number 2391

    Editor: Evelyn Leeper, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
    All material is the opinion of the author and is copyrighted by
    the author unless otherwise noted.
    All comments sent or posted will be assumed authorized for
    inclusion unless otherwise noted.

    To subscribe or unsubscribe, send mail to
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
    The latest issue is at <http://www.leepers.us/mtvoid/latest.htm>.
    An index with links to the issues of the MT VOID since 1986 is at <http://leepers.us/mtvoid/back_issues.htm>.

    Topics:
    Mini Reviews, Part 18 (CONCLAVE, RUMOURS, MICKEY 17,
    ETERNAL YOU) (film comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Where I Find Movies (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Origami X-Wing Fighter and Rodan Instructions (designs
    by Mark R. Leeper)
    More on Interstellar Object 3I Atlas (comments
    by Gregory Frederick)
    Vera Rubin Observatory (letter of comment by Peter Trei)
    This Week's Reading (A CITY ON MARS)
    (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Mini Reviews, Part 18 (film comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    CONCLAVE (2024): I don't want to say a lot about CONCLAVE, since
    there are a lot of twists and turns and surprises. However, I will
    say that I didn't find the end quite as affirming as many
    reviewers did. Oddly, the people I would expect to be most
    comfortable with the philosophy expressed are the least, and vice
    versa.

    I will say that I really enjoyed this film. It was classic
    filmmaking: an emphasis on script and character, no special
    effects (well, perhaps a couple of understated effects), and an
    attention to detail. It's true that some of the characters are
    more fleshed out than others, but that is often true in films. The
    film focuses on Ralph Fiennes's character, and some of the others
    end up less developed. But all of them are played by excellent
    actors and worth watching.

    Released theatrically 25 October 2024.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20215234/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/conclave>


    RUMOURS (2024): RUMOURS is Guy Maddin's latest film, and may be
    the most normal Guy Maddin film I've seen. This does not mean it
    is a normal film.

    The setting is a G7 meeting where the leaders spout puerile
    phrases they think are profound, but then cannot remember what
    they said when the notes are lost. One of the suggestions is a
    solution for a sexually dysfunctional marriage, which one of the
    leaders suggests should be in the preliminary papers, along with
    plans for Europe's largest sundial.

    At some point, everyone other than the seven disappears, and of
    course there is no cell coverage in their remote location.

    Add to this that archaeologists are excavating bog people, and
    that the G7 leaders start seeing and being attacked by bog people,
    and you see how not-normal this may be.

    Meanwhile, they do word association while trying to escape to a
    ferry, and the bone in one person's leg seems to dissolve, just as
    the bones of the bog people did. Then they find a giant brain, and
    one of their (non-Swedish) associates speaking in Swedish about a
    Belgian attack.

    There's also a subplot about a chatbot designed to catch pedophiles

    And it "ends" with the leaders getting bags of G7 snacks and swag,
    and then one of them giving a totally vacuous speech, apparently
    to no one, while in the distance, we see what may be the AI
    Apocalypse.

    I was going to ask if the President of the United States would
    wear a United States flag as a bib, but then I thought about it,
    and decided that alas, it was not that unlikely after all.

    Released theatrically 18 October 2024.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt30841606/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/rumours>


    MICKEY 17 (2025): MICKEY 17 is yet another film with clones who
    die and are reprinted/resurrected/reincarnated over and over. But
    it does make one good point, when a character (Kai) asks one of
    the iterations what it feels like to die. She wants to know how
    her friend Jennifer felt right before she was crushed by an
    avalanche. Mickey says that it probably was not what he feels,
    because he dies so often, and Kai responds, "Because you know
    you're going to wake up again, right?" That is, he knows he will
    just be reprinted with all his memories.

    But the logical continuation of that is that humans who believe in
    Heaven shouldn't be afraid of death, and the humans who believe in reincarnation/samsara shouldn't be afraid of death either. And
    while that is true of many sincere believers in either of those
    belief systems, a lot of people fear death, avoid death, and in
    general would prefer to stay alive. From a logical point of view,
    this doesn't make a lot of sense. And in fact Mickey says that he
    always feels scared. (It's not clear how he knows this, since the
    recording of his memories is not done in real time, so he should
    not be able to remember the last seconds/minutes/hours of his
    lives.)

    My other comment is that Marshall (the leader of the space colony
    where Mickey lives (and dies), played by Mark Ruffalo) is so
    over-the-top, and yet so accurate to the person he is clearly
    meant to be, that it is scarier to watch than a lot of films
    actually presented as horror films. And Toni Colette as his
    partner Ylfa is wonderful also; her character was invented for the
    film and was not in the book by Edward Ashton.

    [And speaking of reincarnation, CTV News reports that the Dalai
    Lama has "suggested that there may not be a successor in the
    storied line of spiritual leaders to hold his title and the line
    may end with him." He has also said there would be a successor, so
    the whole question of what happens when the Dalai Lama achieves
    nirvana and does not reincarnate is up in the air.]

    Released theatrically 7 March 2025.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12299608/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mickey17>


    ETERNAL YOU (2024): ETERNAL YOU is a documentary about a
    technology that creates AI simulations of dead people (using all
    the general AI training that has happened, and only a few small
    inputs about the specific person). Given recent developments with
    Grok, nothing could possibly go wrong with this, right?

    (There is a long section about a case in Korea in which everyone
    is speaking Korean, and there is no subtitling. How is this
    informative?)

    Towards the end, one of the creators of this technology says of
    how it was intended to work with people simulating their dead
    friends, relatives, and lovers, "It's about how to lose them
    better, not how to pretend they're still here." Somehow, though,
    that's not what happens. Christy Lemire describes this as a
    "deeply creepy documentary," and she's not far off.

    For more information on this technology, and the commercial
    aspects of it, do a search on-line for "Project December".

    Released streaming 24 January 2025.

    Film Credits:
    <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt30320493/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/eternal_you>


    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Where I Find Movies (comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    Someone asked me where I get all these movies I comment on,
    especially since the only streaming service I have is Netflix. My
    snappy answer was, "Off the shelves in my den," which is true for
    a lot of the older films. Certainly it is true for pretty much
    all the "neglected gems" films.

    Of this week's batch of reviews, I got CONCLAVE and MICKEY 17 on
    DVD from my public library, and watched RUMOURS and ETERNAL YOU on
    Kanopy through my public library. Of the ones I mentioned briefly
    last week, THE LORD OF THE RINGS (the extended version) and four
    of the Churchill films were on my shelves; THE GATHERING STORM was
    $4.35 from eBay (and worth it, because the commentary was
    excellent, and one doesn't get a commentary on streaming services).

    I've also been watching "pairings" lately. I watched both
    versions of THE BIG SLEEP (1946 and 1978), the older one off my
    shelf and the newer one on Kanopy (and re-read the book), and
    similarly for CHINATOWN and THE TWO JAKES (sans book). THE QUIET
    AMERICAN (1958) was on TCM; the 2002 version was on my shelf, and
    I also had the book.

    I suppose I should do THE PAINTED VEIL next, as I have both
    versions on the shelf, and a copy of the book. But then I'll just
    want to watch TRIO, QUARTET, and ENCORE, three anthology films of
    Somerset Maugham stories (taped off TCM six years ago), and that
    will make me want to read the four volumes of his collected
    stories again (and I just read them last about a year ago). This
    is a real rabbit hole.

    (Hoopla is another service through my library, which also has
    ebooks and audiobooks.)

    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Origami X-Wing Fighter and Rodan Instructions (designs by
    Mark R. Leeper)

    The instructions on how to fold Mark's X-Wing Fighter design are
    at

    <http://leepers.us/Origami_X-Wing_Fighter_Instructions.pdf>

    (No diagrams, alas.)

    The instructions on how to fold Mark's Rodan/pterodactyl design
    are at:

    <http://leepers.us/Origami_Rodan_Pterodactyl_Instructions.pdf>

    (This has photos, though a couple are split over page boundaries.)

    Feel free to disseminate these as long as you credit Mark for the
    design. [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: More on Interstellar Object 3I Atlas (comments by Gregory
    Frederick)

    [This is in reference to the interstellar object described in the
    07/11/25 issue of the MT VOID.]

    This third and current interstellar object (3I Atlas) is stranger
    than Oumuamua our first interstellar object seen in 2017. The more
    astronomers study it the more unusual it seems to be. We now know
    it is probably older then our Solar System, and is traveling
    faster then any comet or asteroid we have ever seen in our Solar
    System. It has a major hyperbolic path meaning it diffidently
    comes from far outside of our Solar System and scientists now know
    it comes from the central disk of our Galaxy. It is not known for
    certain if it is a comet or an asteroid. Though it has a tail like
    a comet, its tail does not stream outward away from the Sun which
    most comets will do; because the solar wind pushes it in that
    direction. It has a tail but its tail is pointed toward the Sun.
    It is also much larger than any interstellar asteroid or comet
    object we have detected. There are many comet and asteroid chunks
    in the Kuiper belt which is at the edge of our Solar system near
    to interstellar space and they tend to be smaller. There is a
    great video link below explaining more about this unusual object.
    And no one in this video is saying it's an alien spacecraft or
    probe.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDD2FI9Thr0>

    [-gf]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Vera Rubin Observatory (letter of comment by Peter Trei)

    In response to Gregory Frederick's comments on the Vera Rubin
    Observatory in the 07/18/25 issue of the MT VOID, Peter Trei
    writes:

    One of the neat things about the Vera Rubin observatory is that
    virtually all the data it collects is released to the public after
    80 hours.

    The delay is to obfuscate the orbits of US spy satellites. [-pt]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    A CITY ON MARS by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith (2023, Penguin, ISBN 978-1-984-88172-4) has come in for criticism as being too negative
    on space colonization. Personally, I think the Weinersmiths are
    just being realistic. And something is certainly needed to
    counteract the super-Pollyanna attitude of Elon Musk and his ilk.

    For example, the Weinersmiths note that "Elon Musk has said [in
    2022] we will have boots on Mars in 2029." We will only if we put
    them on the rover scheduled to be sent to Mars in 2028. "... and a million-person city is possible by twenty or thirty years later."
    How we are going to get a million people to Mars in twenty or
    thirty years is unclear; that's over 30,000 people a year for the
    longer-term date, or 100 people a day, every day. (Okay,
    theoretically one could assume that he'll be sending only women,
    with a giant sperm bank, and that they each would have a child
    every nine months. Assuming no deaths, they would have to send
    only about 600 women a year to achieve a million people in thirty
    years. (If my math is off--and it probably is--I'm sure someone
    will tell me.) I leave it to the reader to decide how likely this
    plan is, either in getting people to agree to it, or in creating a
    fully self-sustaining city when almost all the inhabitants are
    either children or permanently pregnant women.

    Musk does add the qualifier "if launch rate growth is
    exponential." This assumes 100,000 people transferred during each
    launch window; Musk sets a million people as what is needed for a self-sustaining civilization, and seems to assume that is also
    sufficient. The logicians among you know that "necessary" and
    "sufficient" are not at all the same; if Forth Worth, Texas (a
    city of a million people) were somehow transported to Mars in a
    protective bubble, everyone would starve fairly quickly, assuming
    they didn't run out of oxygen first. How Musk thinks a highly
    technological civilization can be self-sufficient on Mars in forty
    years is a mystery.

    The Weinersmiths are not negative on space colonization, but they
    do think that many of the rationales for it are foolish (instead
    of terraforming Mars, why don't we just work on cleaning up the
    earth?) or overly optimistic (we're not going to be colonizing
    exo-planets in anything resembling the near future). And they
    definitely think that many people have too rosy a view of how easy
    space colonization will be, partly based on people like Musk, but
    also--let's face it--partly based on believing what they had read
    in science fiction books as a child, or see in movies and on
    television shows. They believe in the spaciousness of the
    Starship Enterprise rather than the cramped quarters of the ISS.
    [-ecl]

    ===================================================================

    Evelyn C. Leeper
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com


    Einstein: "God does not play dice with the universe."
    Hawking: "Not only does God play dice with the universe,
    but sometimes He throws them where they cannot be seen."


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From djheydt@djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Sun Aug 3 21:52:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <106nl87$1je30$1@dont-email.me>,
    Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
    But the logical continuation of that is that humans who believe in
    Heaven shouldn't be afraid of death, and the humans who believe in >reincarnation/samsara shouldn't be afraid of death either. And
    while that is true of many sincere believers in either of those
    belief systems, a lot of people fear death, avoid death, and in
    general would prefer to stay alive. From a logical point of view,
    this doesn't make a lot of sense. And in fact Mickey says that he
    always feels scared. (It's not clear how he knows this, since the
    recording of his memories is not done in real time, so he should
    not be able to remember the last seconds/minutes/hours of his
    lives.)

    [Hal Heydt]
    By that logic, as someone somewhere between atheist and agnostic,
    I should be afraid of death. I'm not. I first faced my real
    chance of death a bit over 25 years ago and found it didn't
    bother me at all. (The situation was preping for bypass surgery.
    Not all who undergo it survive. My vastly bigger fear was
    surviving with brain damage, which can also happen.)

    Quietly, for a good many years, I have maintained that, if
    Dorothy's beliefs were correct, I will tear the afterlife apart
    seeking her out. If my beliefs are correct, all that is left of
    her are the words she wrote and the memories of the living. If I
    manage to carry out her last wishes, I will find out which of us
    is correct after at least another 17 years.

    I leave it to the reader to decide how likely this
    plan is, either in getting people to agree to it, or in creating a
    fully self-sustaining city when almost all the inhabitants are
    either children or permanently pregnant women.

    See Asimov's story featuring "Might Maxon". I've forgotten the
    story title, but someone is sure the know once the character name
    is present as a trigger.

    Musk does add the qualifier "if launch rate growth is
    exponential." This assumes 100,000 people transferred during each
    launch window; Musk sets a million people as what is needed for a >self-sustaining civilization, and seems to assume that is also
    sufficient. The logicians among you know that "necessary" and
    "sufficient" are not at all the same; if Forth Worth, Texas (a
    city of a million people) were somehow transported to Mars in a
    protective bubble, everyone would starve fairly quickly, assuming
    they didn't run out of oxygen first. How Musk thinks a highly
    technological civilization can be self-sufficient on Mars in forty
    years is a mystery.

    Graydon Saunders in his "Commonweal" books
    grapples--peripherally--with the issue of how many people it
    takes to sustain a "technological" society. They periodically
    bring up the issue of whether or not 1.5 million is enough.
    There are references to a list being maintained of what they
    cannot--at any given moment--make for themselves with the note
    that the list starts with "abrasives" and isn't getting any
    shorter. One periodic mention is finding a substitute for
    tropical gums for binders in printers ink, as the Second
    Commonweal is completely within the temperate zone.
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  • From prd@prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) to rec.arts.sf.fandom on Mon Aug 4 16:38:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.fandom

    In article <106nl87$1je30$1@dont-email.me>,
    evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com (Evelyn C. Leeper) wrote:

    RUMOURS (2024): RUMOURS is Guy Maddin's latest film, and may be
    the most normal Guy Maddin film I've seen. This does not mean it
    is a normal film.

    This is on Sky Cinema in the UK this week, and I've long been a Maddin
    fan, so I'm going to record it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2