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Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary
protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against >were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary
protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), TonyNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against >>were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response. The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief." That protest was handled >relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that
wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in
Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in orNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of
restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the
country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower
infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have beenNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more
quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per
person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic wasNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
over - when do you think that happened?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), TonyNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against >>>were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response. The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief." That protest was handled >>relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that
wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>infection rates.
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was
over - when do you think that happened?
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 06:11:01 -0000 (UTC), TonyNo little child, I have read it and the comments. I am on point and correct! However we all understand your shortcomings don/t we
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), TonyNone oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response. The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief." That protest was handled >>>relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>infection rates.
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
None oif which addresses the subject. Read the open letter.
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>over - when do you think that happened?
Try reading the letter yourself, Tony - you are wrong, wrong, and
wrong again.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against >>were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
That protest was handled--
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that
wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in
Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of
restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the
country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower
infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more
quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per
person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was
over - when do you think that happened?
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against >>>were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to
Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses
to meet other protesters.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that
wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was
over - when do you think that happened?
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very
rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000
lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to
Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful.
The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they metIf you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses
to meet other protesters.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or
out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately
high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been
protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have
had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>over - when do you think that happened?
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:That is a pathetic overstatement and just lies. She could have sent someone else and she should have reigned the speaker in. It was a dereliction of duty by our Prime Minister - simple.
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were >>>>>against
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to
Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful.
extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader
of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many
death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid
response and other matters of concern to government.
Irrelevant.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses
to meet other protesters.
and where only there for a short time.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all >>>>>supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to
Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful.
extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader
of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many
death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid
response and other matters of concern to government.
The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses
to meet other protesters.
and where only there for a short time.
--
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with
Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New
Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid
infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . .
Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to
Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful.
extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader
of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid
response and other matters of concern to government.
longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for
not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your
actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >widespread dissent.
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose toAn example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses
to meet other protesters.
and where only there for a short time.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Prove it - not what I saw or my Wellingon friends reported.
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>response and other matters of concern to government.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not >>>>>>>all
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were >>>>>>>against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored. >>>>
longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for
not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your
actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>widespread dissent.
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to
the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >Wellington.
The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls andA tiny minority misbehaved, probably of those opposed to the protest.
other schools was disgraceful.
No that was cowardice.Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>> to meet other protesters.
follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>
wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>response and other matters of concern to government.
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>> wrote:The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored. >>>>
longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for
not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your
actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>widespread dissent.
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to
the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >Wellington. The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls and
other schools was disgraceful.
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>> to meet other protesters.
follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
--
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 12:23:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far >>>longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>> wrote:The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader >>>>of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>>response and other matters of concern to government.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not all
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored. >>>>>
not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your
actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>>widespread dissent.
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to
the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >>Wellington. The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls and
other schools was disgraceful.
You need your memory to be refreshed: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2The weak leadership of National continues to this day. Ardern was
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>>> to meet other protesters.
follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
protecting her 'brand', not leading the country in the face of such a >sustained protest.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 14:42:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid>Well done, 9 out of 10 for obediently following the party line, 0 out of 10 for
wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 12:23:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far >>>>longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for >>>>not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your >>>>actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>>>widespread dissent.
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>>>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader >>>>>of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>>>response and other matters of concern to government.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not >>>>>>>>>all
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were >>>>>>>>>against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about
leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored. >>>>>>
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to
the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >>>Wellington. The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls and
other schools was disgraceful.
You need your memory to be refreshed: >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest
From that article:
"Vaccination became mandatory for all health and disability workers as
well as in education, corrections, defence, Fire and Emergency New
Zealand and Police on 15 November 2021.[50] New Zealand made the My
Vaccine Pass available to all eligible New Zealanders on 17
November,[51] and required all staff at close contact venues (gyms and >hospitality) to be vaccinated by 17 January.[52]
New Zealand has been praised for its success at controlling the spread
of Covid, with its approach being regarded as the most successful in
the world.[53] Globally the country has high vaccination rates and one
of the lowest per capita death rates.[54] Most of the population have >received the control measures well, with lockdowns and border closures
often polling at more than 80% and their trust in scientists becoming
the highest in the world.[55]
The New Zealand protest was influenced by the Canada convoy protest
that began on 22 January, when hundreds of vehicles blocked bridges at
the border between Canada and the US, as well as streets in downtown >Ottawa.[56][57] Other nations were also influenced by the Canadian
protest, holding their own rallies.[58] The New Zealand protesters
were mainly protesting against vaccine mandates, mask mandates and
government lockdowns aimed at controlling the COVID-19 pandemic in New >Zealand.[59] It expanded to include a variety of anti-establishment
goals characterised by mistrust of authorities, Government, media and >police.[60]"
Some of those occupations are still required to keep up to date with >vaccinations - and those requirements are generally supported by those >affected - just as they were at the time of the protests; and the
change of government has made no difference that I am aware of (other
than making them more expensive. . ). Just today there was a call for >government to make some vaccinations free to get our percentage of
population up to date with vaccinations at a level that would give
better protection against another variant. As I pointed out recently,
deaths from Covid are currently running at around 5 or 6 per week -
and vaccinations need to be designed for new variants for Covid and
influenza every year.
Anti-establishment protests have
The weak leadership of National continues to this day. Ardern was >>protecting her 'brand', not leading the country in the face of such a >>sustained protest.
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to >>>follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>>>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>>>> to meet other protesters.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 14:42:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>wrote:Well done, 9 out of 10 for obediently following the party line, 0 out of 10 for
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 12:23:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far >>>>>longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for >>>>>not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your >>>>>actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>>>>widespread dissent.
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the >>>>>>>country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>>>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>>>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader >>>>>>of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>>>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>>>>response and other matters of concern to government.
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. Not
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
all
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were >>>>>>>>>>against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons.
Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>>>>lives saved by the response.
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about >>>>>>>> leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes >>>>>>>>>of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting >>>>>>>>>"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored. >>>>>>>
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to >>>>the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >>>>Wellington. The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls and >>>>other schools was disgraceful.
You need your memory to be refreshed: >>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest
From that article:
"Vaccination became mandatory for all health and disability workers as
well as in education, corrections, defence, Fire and Emergency New
Zealand and Police on 15 November 2021.[50] New Zealand made the My
Vaccine Pass available to all eligible New Zealanders on 17
November,[51] and required all staff at close contact venues (gyms and >>hospitality) to be vaccinated by 17 January.[52]
New Zealand has been praised for its success at controlling the spread
of Covid, with its approach being regarded as the most successful in
the world.[53] Globally the country has high vaccination rates and one
of the lowest per capita death rates.[54] Most of the population have >>received the control measures well, with lockdowns and border closures >>often polling at more than 80% and their trust in scientists becoming
the highest in the world.[55]
The New Zealand protest was influenced by the Canada convoy protest
that began on 22 January, when hundreds of vehicles blocked bridges at
the border between Canada and the US, as well as streets in downtown >>Ottawa.[56][57] Other nations were also influenced by the Canadian
protest, holding their own rallies.[58] The New Zealand protesters
were mainly protesting against vaccine mandates, mask mandates and >>government lockdowns aimed at controlling the COVID-19 pandemic in New >>Zealand.[59] It expanded to include a variety of anti-establishment
goals characterised by mistrust of authorities, Government, media and >>police.[60]"
Some of those occupations are still required to keep up to date with >>vaccinations - and those requirements are generally supported by those >>affected - just as they were at the time of the protests; and the
change of government has made no difference that I am aware of (other
than making them more expensive. . ). Just today there was a call for >>government to make some vaccinations free to get our percentage of >>population up to date with vaccinations at a level that would give
better protection against another variant. As I pointed out recently, >>deaths from Covid are currently running at around 5 or 6 per week -
and vaccinations need to be designed for new variants for Covid and >>influenza every year.
balance.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Anti-establishment protests have
The weak leadership of National continues to this day. Ardern was >>>protecting her 'brand', not leading the country in the face of such a >>>sustained protest.
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to >>>>follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>>>>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>>>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>>>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they
represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>>>>> to meet other protesters.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder >>>>>>>>>it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been >>>>>>>>>an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was >>>>>>>>>over - when do you think that happened?
On Tue, 8 Jul 2025 21:40:39 -0000 (UTC), TonyNot very well actually, and this article proves it. It also follows your party line, did you write it?
<lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 14:42:27 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>wrote:Well done, 9 out of 10 for obediently following the party line, 0 out of 10 >>for
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 12:23:01 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jul 2025 08:26:45 +1200, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On Mon, 07 Jul 2025 21:46:08 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On 7 Jul 2025 07:57:56 GMT, Gordon <Gordon@leaf.net.nz> wrote:Understandable if the protest was for an hour or two, but it was far >>>>>>longer than that. All PMs are always 'busy' - that is no excuse for >>>>>>not taking an hour or 2 out to visit those who are opposing your >>>>>>actions. Her actions at the time speak volumes on how she dealt with >>>>>>widespread dissent.
On 2025-07-06, Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2025 17:14:05 +1200, Rich80105 <Rich80105@hotmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Sat, 5 Jul 2025 00:12:26 -0000 (UTC), Tony >>>>>>>>>><lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:
Crash <nogood@dontbother.invalid> wrote:Those that are against Jacinda are often emotional and not very >>>>>>>>>>rational. The reality is that New Zealand did much better than other >>>>>>>>>>countries in saving lives - estimates are between 20,000 and 22,000 >>>>>>>>>>lives saved by the response.
Sir Ian Taylor writes well on this:Stuff published a number of responses, they are very interesting. >>>>>>>>>>>Not
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360743654/ian-taylor-dear-jacinda-most-difficult-letter-i-have-written-you
We would also do well to remember the reaction to the Parliamentary >>>>>>>>>>>>protest - anarchy and Barry Manilow's music.
Hindsight does give insight.
all
supported Sir Ian's view but many did. Interstingly those that were >>>>>>>>>>>against
were often so for emotional and not very rational reasons. >>>>>>>>>>
That was not the point of Taylor's 'letter', which is all about >>>>>>>>> leadership style, not purported results.
The protests at parliament were fostered
for in the best "Trumpian" far right political traditions by the likes
of Eft-postle Tamaki and the NZ Taxpayer Union and NZ First - courting
"anti-vaxx" nutters to "foment mischief."
None of which was mentioned by me. The reaction I referenced was to >>>>>>>>> Ardern's leadership style which required the protestors to be ignored.
The respone to not meet with the protestors, who where the people of the
country they had been given the power to govern was certainly shameful. >>>>>>>We now know that at that time, the Prime Minister was subject to >>>>>>>extensive threats (and it is possible that also applied to the leader >>>>>>>of the National Party as well). We now know that Ardern received many >>>>>>>death threats. She was also busy at that time with both the Covid >>>>>>>response and other matters of concern to government.
It was not widespread in terms of New Zealanders - the opposition to >>>>>the "protests" was widespread and vocally expressed by most living in >>>>>Wellington. The harassment of pupils going to Wellington Girls and >>>>>other schools was disgraceful.
You need your memory to be refreshed: >>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Wellington_protest
From that article:
"Vaccination became mandatory for all health and disability workers as >>>well as in education, corrections, defence, Fire and Emergency New >>>Zealand and Police on 15 November 2021.[50] New Zealand made the My >>>Vaccine Pass available to all eligible New Zealanders on 17
November,[51] and required all staff at close contact venues (gyms and >>>hospitality) to be vaccinated by 17 January.[52]
New Zealand has been praised for its success at controlling the spread
of Covid, with its approach being regarded as the most successful in
the world.[53] Globally the country has high vaccination rates and one
of the lowest per capita death rates.[54] Most of the population have >>>received the control measures well, with lockdowns and border closures >>>often polling at more than 80% and their trust in scientists becoming
the highest in the world.[55]
The New Zealand protest was influenced by the Canada convoy protest
that began on 22 January, when hundreds of vehicles blocked bridges at >>>the border between Canada and the US, as well as streets in downtown >>>Ottawa.[56][57] Other nations were also influenced by the Canadian >>>protest, holding their own rallies.[58] The New Zealand protesters
were mainly protesting against vaccine mandates, mask mandates and >>>government lockdowns aimed at controlling the COVID-19 pandemic in New >>>Zealand.[59] It expanded to include a variety of anti-establishment
goals characterised by mistrust of authorities, Government, media and >>>police.[60]"
Some of those occupations are still required to keep up to date with >>>vaccinations - and those requirements are generally supported by those >>>affected - just as they were at the time of the protests; and the
change of government has made no difference that I am aware of (other >>>than making them more expensive. . ). Just today there was a call for >>>government to make some vaccinations free to get our percentage of >>>population up to date with vaccinations at a level that would give
better protection against another variant. As I pointed out recently, >>>deaths from Covid are currently running at around 5 or 6 per week -
and vaccinations need to be designed for new variants for Covid and >>>influenza every year.
balance.
That was a direct quotation from the Wikipedia article, Tony. I did
not write it. Wikipedia does try to reflect a considered and consensus
view of subjects.
Anti-establishment protests have
The weak leadership of National continues to this day. Ardern was >>>>protecting her 'brand', not leading the country in the face of such a >>>>sustained protest.
Indeed quite a few politicians (and a substantial majority) chose to >>>>>follow her example . . . that is Leadership . . .
An example PM Ardern chose not to follow. Her 'brand' rather than her >>>>>>leadership qualities, took precedence.The very few politicians that did meet with protestors did indeed get >>>>>>>criticised for that - even though they were careful about who they met >>>>>>>and where only there for a short time.
If you consider the number of people and the viewpoints they >>>>>>>>> represented to be wrong, no doubt you will endorse any PM who refuses >>>>>>>>> to meet other protesters.
That protest was handled
relatively gently - and the music chosen had nothing to do with >>>>>>>>>>Jacinda Ardern, but that just shows again the ignorance of those that >>>>>>>>>>wish to distract from the extremely good Covid response in New >>>>>>>>>>Zealand. The reality of that protest was that it caused a peak in >>>>>>>>>>Wellington Hospital of those needing assistance due to Covid >>>>>>>>>>infection.
Yes there were difficulties for many individuals - being locked in or >>>>>>>>>>out of New Zealand caused less disruption than death however . . . >>>>>>>>>>Most of the protests were made at a time when some relaxation of >>>>>>>>>>restrictions was close in any event - and when different parts of the >>>>>>>>>>country could be treated differently. The larger the centre the harder
it was to end the pandemic - and Auckland been large with moderately >>>>>>>>>>high population density was understandably slower to achieve lower >>>>>>>>>>infection rates.
We could each ask ourselves how many additional deaths would have been
an acceptable cost for removing restrictions earlier?
As far as economic recovery is concerned; New Zealand recovered more >>>>>>>>>>quickly than any other developed country - we restored GDP growth per >>>>>>>>>>person very quickly as employment and spending power had been >>>>>>>>>>protected; and company closures were nowhere near the levels we have >>>>>>>>>>had over the last year . . . .
It is worth considering now just how long it is since the pandemic was
over - when do you think that happened?