From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:

On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 15:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Heh heh heh... every single Android 10 and newer is patched every month. >>>>

Like I said a patch of random services is not proper or full support.

Those are not "random services"; they're core critical Android packages.

It isn't the whole OS, is it? Fact is google had to step up for basic
support of random services because manufacturers abandoned their devices so >> rapidly. It needed to prop up the ecosystem.

Chris,
Let's have an adult conversation for once.

You're the one that always drops down to child-like behaviour ie.
name-calling, tantrums

Let's summarize, at a high level what "kinds" of bugfix updates exist.

Firstly you need to stick with common nomenclature. The are updates for
several different and overlapping reasons: fix security issues, fix bugs,
add features, change functionality.

Not everything is a bugfix.

At one level, we can summary bugfix support in two fundamental tiers.
a. There is a tier for the operating system
(which includes kernel patches & system-level security updates)
b. And then there is a tier for the applications
(usually delivered via app store updates over the Internet)
c. In the case of both iOS & Android, those tiers are often blended
(e.g., Project Mainline delivers core OS updates over the Internet)
<https://source.android.com/docs/core/ota/modular-system>

In linux/unix speak there's kernel-level, system-level and user-level.

At another level, we can summary bugfix support by the vendor & mechanism:
A. There is a carrier-operated OTA bugfix mechanism
B. There is an OEM-vendor-operated OTA/Internet bugfix mechanism
(i.e., Apple, Samsung, Xiaomi, etc. camera updates, for example)
C. There is an OS-vendor-operated bugfix mechanism (includes Qualcomm)

ok

Then there is the almost meaningless operating system "version" update.
1. For iOS, that's iOS 18 to iOS 26
2. For Android, that's Android 14 to Android 15

Notice I said "almost meaningless" which applies more to Android than to
iOS

I don't fully agree, but ok.

since Apple has never fully patched any non-current major OS release.

That critical fact alone is likely a huge reason why iOS is so insecure. Apple is the only OS vendor in the world who has support that bad, Chris.

You don't have to like that fact; but you sure as hell better know it.

You were doing so well up to now. Why the need to throw in intentionally antagonistic opinions? Stop acting like a child when initiating an "adult" conversation.

[ repetitive crap removed ]

What's clear is that project mainline supports the modular parts of Android which have been refactored to meet the requirements for the project. For Android 10 it was a relatively small number (12 modules) and has been
growing since (37 at latest count).

It's up to vendors to choose whether or not to bundle those models or use
their own equivalents.

It is also obvious that it doesn't touch vendor-specific kernel extensions.


Likewise it does not cover user-level applications like vendor UIs or third party apps (bowsers, mail clients, games, etc). Nor would you expect it to.


The Android Open Source Project (AOSP) provides the full release versions
of Android plus monthly patches for supported versions (currently 13
onwards).

Beyond project mainline the vendor whether it's Samsung, Google, Motorola, OPPO, etc is responsible for maintaining the non-modular parts of android,
the kernel (+ extensions) and their user-space specific tools or
applications.

So an owner of an android phone is dependent on both Google/Android and the vendor to ensure that their device is fully up-to-date.

Google/Android provides both AOSP (i.e. full versions) and project mainline (i.e. critical system components) updates.

Project mainline as described above only covers some parts of an Android devices' software ecosystem so if that is the only active update mechanism
then a user is still potentially vulnerable due to deprecation in vendor
and/or Android non-critical system components.

So if you have a Galaxy A12 (released June 2020) which is stuck on Android
12, you aren't getting any vendor updates (since approx 2023), no Android security updates (since March this year), and are dependent on the Android 12-specific mainline updates to a limited subset of android components
which won't include modules introduced since then (ie the bluetooth stack).
It is very unclear what is covered by which support for any given phone.

In contrast, with Apple being both the hardware vendor and OS developer everything comes through iOS updates - or rarely RSRs - and anyone with an iphone is either fully supported or not. Full support is historically 6-7
years since launch, although Apple recently committing to a minimum of 5
years which lacks ambition.

An iphone SE 2nd Gen (launched April 2020) is currently fully supported in
iOS 18 and will still be supported with iOS 26.

Admittedly there is ambiguity regarding what users can expect after full
iOS support is dropped. For example, unsupported iphone X (launched 2017) phones stuck on iOs 16 still received 12 updates since the release of iOS
17.

The other downside of the iOS model is that you don't know when or if
updates are due. With Android there's at least a bulletin published every
month even when there are no updates.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

On Mon, 8 Sep 2025 18:55:28 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

Let's summarize, at a high level what "kinds" of bugfix updates exist.

Firstly you need to stick with common nomenclature. The are updates for several different and overlapping reasons: fix security issues, fix bugs,
add features, change functionality.

Not everything is a bugfix.

Hi Chris,

Stop acting like Alan Baker saying nobody understands anything but he.
Just stop it.

It's clear you have absolutely no idea how either iOS or Android updates.

Trust me when I say I understand how Android & iOS update software.
Yet I have no confidence that you Apple trolls understand how they do.

For years, for example, you Apple trolls claimed iOS wasn't monolithic
when, everyone who understood anything about iOS knew that it was
monolithic. You Apple trolls were confused by something as simple as a
delta which Apple used (as does Microsoft) for updating individuals.

It was only in iOS 16 that the concept of a hotfix RSR existed in iOS.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

Which is likely why iOS is the most exploited mobile OS in history.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

Also, you Apple trolls have never been able to understand that every OEM
vendor patches older releases every once in a while. Only on an Apple
newsgroup is a random patch to an older device considered extraordinary
proof that Apple randomly patches older devices (which every OEM does).
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201222>

And, it took *years* for me to get it through your thick skulls, Chris,
that only Apple only fully supports only a single release at any one time.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>

Even today, after years of trying to get into your thick Apple troll skulls
how Android updates, you still have no clue that Android 10+ updates
monthly every single Android phone that is on the Internet, Chris.
<https://www.esper.io/blog/what-is-project-mainline>

You think Apple has any clue how to do something like that, Chris?
From: Marion <marion@facts.com>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Why doesn't Apple forever update iOS core modules
on every iPhone on the Internet monthly?
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2025 17:11:03 -0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <1099sr4$9sk$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

So an owner of an android phone is dependent on both Google/Android and the vendor to ensure that their device is fully up-to-date.

So is the owner of an Apple iPhone. Remember, Apple doesn't make most of
the hardware in the iPhone. So they depend on those same OEM vendors.

Project mainline as described above only covers some parts of an Android devices' software ecosystem so if that is the only active update mechanism then a user is still potentially vulnerable due to deprecation in vendor and/or Android non-critical system components.

Yup. That's why the promised written length of support being better for
Google & Samsung flagships than for iOS is critically important, Chris.

*Apple finally confirms how long it will support iPhones*
*and it's less than Samsung and Google*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/iphone-software-support-commitment-3449135/>

Admittedly there is ambiguity regarding what users can expect after full
iOS support is dropped. For example, unsupported iphone X (launched 2017) phones stuck on iOs 16 still received 12 updates since the release of iOS
17.

The other downside of the iOS model is that you don't know when or if
updates are due. With Android there's at least a bulletin published every month even when there are no updates.

I have to give you credit, Chris, for looking this information up.

This is the first time, in the history of posting on this Apple newsgroup,
that anyone has shown any understanding of how the OS's update.

They update differently. In layers. With varying amount of support.
I give you credit for delving into the complexity that it inherently is.

Kudos to you.
Finally, an adult conversation is possible on this Apple newsgroup.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2